shmups.system11.org

Shmups Forum
 
* FAQ    * Search
 * Register  * Login 
It is currently Sat Nov 01, 2014 3:05 am View unanswered posts
View active topics



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 19 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: Getting into Shmups
PostPosted: Sat Mar 28, 2009 9:47 pm 



Joined: 28 Mar 2009
Posts: 16
Hi guys!

Can shmups veterans give me very general strategy tips on shmups, and also recommend some games to get me started? I'm new to this, yesterday I suddently got an urge to go and buy Ikaruga for XBLA. I knew the game and played an odd shmup here and there long time ago, but nothing consistent. So I did, and after 2 hours beat stage 2. Loved every minute of it!

I already read that a good strategy is to have no Continues selected and try till I pass the difficult parts. Since Ikaruga has Continues disabled by default that's what I'm doing. I also read how enemy actually has to shot the central point of your ship for the hit to register, but I don't think that's the case with Ikaruga. Anything else that might help me get better?

Also would appreciate some suggestions as to other titles I can try. Hopefully nobody will suggest this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=70iFdnI-xfA :D :D :D

Thx a lot!


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Mar 28, 2009 9:57 pm 



Joined: 02 Dec 2008
Posts: 592
welcome to the forum, be sure to check the strategy section out, you can find all the help for your preferred shmup there. Take a look at the glossary as it may help you understand what people are talking about.

A lot of people here hate Treasure/Ikaruga ;) Ignore them and enjoy your game.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Mar 28, 2009 10:09 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 08 Dec 2005
Posts: 15717
Location: uoıʇɐɹnƃıɟuoɔ ɯǝʇsʎs
Shmups ruined my life, run away while you still can


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Mar 28, 2009 10:55 pm 



Joined: 26 Jan 2005
Posts: 8622
Ed Oscuro wrote:
Shmups ruined my life, run away while you still can


Once you get bitten by shmup "bug", there's no known cure for it. Glad to have you on-board, Castor Krieg. You've come to right place for the latest and greatest on the ever changing world of shmups whether they be the classics from the 1970s/1980s/1990s to the newest modern-day releases, there are so many to get your feet wet with. As a grizzled arcade game veteran from the 1980s/1990s, I've played more than my fair share of arcade shmup titles during the Golden Age of arcade games era. ^_~

I suggest that you try out some of the classic Toaplan and Cave released arcade games via emulation to see how things were like back in the early to late 1990s -- the original seeds of danmaku (or "bullet hell" in Japanese) that have paved the road for the modern day danmaku shmup titles and those yet to be developed further down the pipeline. ^_~

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Getting into Shmups
PostPosted: Sat Mar 28, 2009 11:25 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 22 Apr 2007
Posts: 1366
Location: East Coast, USA
Castor Krieg wrote:
I already read that a good strategy is to have no Continues selected and try till I pass the difficult parts. Since Ikaruga has Continues disabled by default that's what I'm doing. I also read how enemy actually has to shot the central point of your ship for the hit to register, but I don't think that's the case with Ikaruga. Anything else that might help me get better?

That actually is the case with Ikaruga. The hitbox is, in fact, one of the smallest of the entire genre. In stage 2, you can position yourself in between crates and pass right through even though it looks like an impassable obstacle. Another tip for Ikaruga: learn to chain! The extra lives you gain from a good score help a lot when you're trying to clear the game. This is true for just about every shmup; always try to learn the scoring system. A lot of shmups become 10x more fun when playing for score as opposed to just trying to survive.

I really can't think of any other tips for you. All of the skills and 'techniques' I use in shmups just come from having experience playing shmups for a few years and building up my reflexes, pattern recognition, alertness, and prediction. My advice is to just play shmups, a lot of them, for a long time. You'll get good just by dying a lot, figuring out why you're dying, and then not doing that again.

edit: I recalled one specific technique that might help, although it also becomes apparent just by playing for a little while. For a lot of bullets that are aimed at you - as opposed to bullets that just create a pattern regardless of where your ship is - you can do something called 'bullet herding'. This is where you quickly move to one side of the screen and climb up the screen a little ways. If you do this quickly, there will be a small gap (or gaps) in the cloud of bullets as the enemies have to re-aim to your new position. When you spot the gap, reverse direction and go through it, and then repeat in the other direction. A lot of the time the gap will only be big enough for your hitbox, so make sure you know where it is in the game you happen to be playing.

This situation rarely comes up in Ikaruga (stage 4 is the only part of the game I can recall where bullet herding is useful) but most games are not as memorisation-heavy as Ikaruga.
_________________
"I think Ikaruga is pretty tough. It is like a modern version of Galaga that some Japanese company made."


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Getting into Shmups
PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2009 2:23 am 


User avatar

Joined: 26 Jan 2005
Posts: 2113
Location: research and development facility for Vasteel Technology.
Castor Krieg wrote:
Also would appreciate some suggestions as to other titles I can try.


For anyone new starting to get into shmups I always recommend the perennial classic Raiden (see how far you can get on a single credit - it is a very good, straightforward and accessible shmup by Seibu Kaihatsu).

Cheers...
_________________
"Thunder Force VI does not suck, shut your fucking mouth." ~ Shane Bettenhausen


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Getting into Shmups
PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2009 2:34 am 


User avatar

Joined: 15 Dec 2007
Posts: 2665
Location: ʍoquıɐɹ ǝɥʇ ɹǝʌo 'ǝɹǝɥʍǝɯos
Castor Krieg wrote:
Also would appreciate some suggestions as to other titles I can try.


I will always suggest DoDonPachi. Fun, simple, excellent.
It's what *really* got me into shmups.

I'd also suggest Dangun Feveron [SOS Fever], but it's not really everyone's style.

Both made by shmup masters Cave.
_________________
Listen to crap music I made in an hour [and a few okay tracks that took longer]. :P
Come race with us. Ridge Racer 2 PSP time attack at Rolling Start!


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2009 3:14 am 


User avatar

Joined: 13 Feb 2009
Posts: 42
As someone else who only got into shmups because of Ikaruga, I'd suggest watching some of the replays. Don't try to emulate them, but look to them for inspiration. The game is more than a mindless shooter, you need to be able recognize patterns and have strategies that are appropriate to your personal abilities. The only way to get really good is to practice, practice, practice. Ikaruga's difficulty peaks pretty high in the third and fourth stages.

Otherwise, I'd suggest trying all the classics shmups that everyone else has suggested. Try to find exactly what styles of shmups you enjoy.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Getting into Shmups
PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2009 3:47 am 


User avatar

Joined: 18 Sep 2008
Posts: 2127
Location: ǝʇɐןoɔoɥɔ & ǝsǝǝɥɔ
kengou wrote:
I really can't think of any other tips for you. All of the skills and 'techniques' I use in shmups just come from having experience playing shmups for a few years and building up my reflexes, pattern recognition, alertness, and prediction. My advice is to just play shmups, a lot of them, for a long time. You'll get good just by dying a lot, figuring out why you're dying, and then not doing that again.


Also for danmaku starters i recommend Blue Wish Resurrection Plus; It's for PC, not too challenging, has a scoring system and best of all it's free. :wink:
_________________
.
Image
.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2009 3:56 am 



Joined: 30 Oct 2008
Posts: 213
I would suggest mushihimesama and espgaluda. (in that order)

gradually you'll work your way through things and come across titles you may not have appreciated as much the first time around. I know this was the case for me the first time I played Dodonpachi DOJ DV.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2009 4:06 am 


User avatar

Joined: 04 Mar 2008
Posts: 1715
Location: Québec
I second Dodonpachi, and can add maybe... Batsugun.
_________________
Muchos años después, frente al pelotón de fusilamiento...


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2009 4:54 am 


User avatar

Joined: 27 Dec 2007
Posts: 175
I too got *really* into shmups because of Ikaruga (aside from many hours of Galactic Crusader on NES back in the day). My buddy and I probably played 20-30 hours over the period of a few days back a couple of years ago...that practice/repetition went a long way. You will be surprised at your progress.

It is a sickness/obsession however...It forced me to get into the arcade pcb game to experience the true glory of the genre - and it was well worth it 8)


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Getting into Shmups
PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2009 8:43 am 



Joined: 28 Mar 2009
Posts: 16
ZOM wrote:
kengou wrote:
I really can't think of any other tips for you. All of the skills and 'techniques' I use in shmups just come from having experience playing shmups for a few years and building up my reflexes, pattern recognition, alertness, and prediction. My advice is to just play shmups, a lot of them, for a long time. You'll get good just by dying a lot, figuring out why you're dying, and then not doing that again.


Also for danmaku starters i recommend Blue Wish Resurrection Plus; It's for PC, not too challenging, has a scoring system and best of all it's free. :wink:


Thank you, I downloaded Blue Wish and played it a bit on Heaven Mode (probably slack mode lol). Got till the boss in stage 5.

When there are a lots of bullets on the screen the time slows down, I saw this in other shmups as well. Is this a design decision to make players dodge better when lots of bullets are flying?


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Getting into Shmups
PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2009 9:14 am 


User avatar

Joined: 05 Feb 2007
Posts: 2169
Location: Kansas City Kansas
Castor Krieg wrote:
When there are a lots of bullets on the screen the time slows down, I saw this in other shmups as well. Is this a design decision to make players dodge better when lots of bullets are flying?


There is slowdown in most arcade pcbs (printed circuit boards... the arcade boards) that BWR is inspired by due to the hardware, I think in BWR it's a design decision made partly to give the feeling of an arcade game as well as be forgiving enough to the player. When ports of arcade games come out a lot of people will debate if the slowdown is arcade accurate or not. In stuff like the Gradius collection on PSP for example, you can actually set how much the game will slow down in situations where the original arcade hardware would have been pushed, and the arcade level of slowdown is usually default while full framerate constantly is also an option for maniacs.
_________________
Leader of the Starry Skies


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2009 9:58 am 


User avatar

Joined: 11 Jan 2007
Posts: 1431
Location: Minnesota, USA
When aiming for a clear, and once you're ready, I recommend using continues or stage select / save states (if you have to) to work out what I call "problem spots" in the game. Spots that require a certain memorized route, or spots where you always die for some reason. If you can spend less time taking care of these spots, the clear will come a lot faster.

Granted, practicing in this method takes away from some of the fun for some users. So, make a good judgment for when you're tired of biting the bullet on the same spot over and over.

I've had great success with practicing like this with Mushihimesama, Gradius V and IV.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2009 10:38 am 


User avatar

Joined: 20 May 2008
Posts: 3486
Location: Berlin, Germany
If you have a PS2, Espgaluda or Mushihimesama are very good games to start.
_________________
Image


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Getting into Shmups
PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2009 9:07 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 18 Sep 2008
Posts: 2127
Location: ǝʇɐןoɔoɥɔ & ǝsǝǝɥɔ
Castor Krieg wrote:
When there are a lots of bullets on the screen the time slows down, I saw this in other shmups as well. Is this a design decision to make players dodge better when lots of bullets are flying?


What szycag said. Also, IIRC, there should be the option to toggle the slowdown on/off in BWR+.
_________________
.
Image
.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2009 10:06 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 25 Jan 2005
Posts: 1554
Location: Toledo, OH
These threads might be of interest:

http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?t=20406
http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?t=22531
http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?t=17223


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2009 12:25 am 



Joined: 28 Mar 2009
Posts: 16
Thx a lot for all your answers guys. Drowning in shmups now (couple of Dreamcast ones, 3 PS2s, and Shikigami no Shiro PC 1-3 ^^).

Off I go to play!


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 19 posts ] 

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot], Google [Bot] and 0 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Space Pilot 3K template by Jakob Persson
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group