Ketsui PCB collection : let's get it dumped.

Never_Scurred · Post by **Never_Scurred** » Sun Aug 05, 2007 6:29 am

zakk wrote:
TWE wrote:I think it would be a good idea to contact Guru, tell him what we're doing, and confirm that he would actually dump the game (soon!).
Ehhhh, I'm not so sure that really should be done. It sort of smacks of 'HEY WE WANT TO PLAY THIS GAME PLZ DUMP IT NOW' no matter how you try to word it. It's not like Ketsui is ultra-rare and this is imperative for preservation; this really is a case of 'want to play the game'

First off, how is Ketsui not rare?
Is there some secret cache of unused boards waiting to be played?

@Pixelcorps- donation sent.
Any lil' bit towards burning Mihara's ass for even thinking about porting it to the DS helps I hope..

PS-I found a place selling the PCB for about $750

http://www.coinopexpress.com/products/p ... _2558.html

Macaw · Post by **Macaw** » Sun Aug 05, 2007 7:42 am

Never_Scurred wrote:First off, how is Ketsui not rare?
Is there some secret cache of unused boards waiting to be played?

As far as arcade games go Ketsui is quite new, and although it may be pricey getting a board is no problem.

Also one of the general ideas of MAME is that its more worthwhile to emulate older stuff rather than the newer stuff, especially if the hardware the game is using has a whole back catalog of unemulated games. There is still shitloads of PGM stuff much older than Ketsui that are yet to be emulated. I remember Haze saying that he wont even bother with any of the newer PGM games until the older ones are taken care of.

But hey, if Guru is willing to do this then thats cool.

pixelcorps · Post by **pixelcorps** » Sun Aug 05, 2007 7:59 am

has there been any mention from mihara himself regarding that DS version?

the entire story of having a focus group in a restaurant and allowing them to record it on video is so supect it's ridiculous - I make mobile games by day and if anyone did that at one of our FG's they'd be thrown out of the office window!

well.. $750 is a great price - lets hope we see more once we get more cash!

EOJ · Post by **EOJ** » Sun Aug 05, 2007 8:02 am

pixelcorps wrote:has there been any mention from mihara himself regarding that DS version?

I thought he mentioned something about a february (2008) release, if it's going to happen at all. I'll have to recheck his blog.

Personally, I think it would be great to have a Ketsui Wii port, with a LE which includes the DS "Ketsui death label" game.

Would beat the hell out of a soundtrack or mousepad or whatever else they normally throw in LEs.

DirtyMonk · Post by **DirtyMonk** » Sun Aug 05, 2007 8:03 am

This is a great idea, pixelcorps. I just sent you $30. Let's make this happen.

It's FUCKING Ketsui, baby, KETSUI!

pixelcorps · Post by **pixelcorps** » Sun Aug 05, 2007 8:04 am

that's the spirit!

GaijinPunch · Post by **GaijinPunch** » Sun Aug 05, 2007 8:05 am

How long does it take to write a driver, anyway? Well, I'm sure it varies. I remember when someone was working on System24. I checked and checked and checked for months and there was no progress. Then, a couple years later, they're playable in MAME, although they look goofy due to the medium resolution.

P_HAT · Post by **P_HAT** » Sun Aug 05, 2007 8:29 am

GaijinPunch wrote:How long does it take to write a driver, anyway? Well, I'm sure it varies. I remember when someone was working on System24. I checked and checked and checked for months and there was no progress. Then, a couple years later, they're playable in MAME, although they look goofy due to the medium resolution.

If they want, they can write driver in week...
remember CPS3?

pixelcorps · Post by **pixelcorps** » Sun Aug 05, 2007 9:44 am

i'll be consulting a few genius software engineers regarding this very subject next week.

Post by **nZero** » Sun Aug 05, 2007 3:53 pm

PGM driver is already quite healthy, probably even moreso in ElSemi's emulator than in MAME. To my knowledge, the issues regarding Ketsui are:

- undumped
- per-game protection on later PGM games, incl. all Cave
- possibly Arika

The second point there means that Guru will likely need to hold onto the PCB for a long time before return/resale, in case any hardware tests or trojans or etc. need to be run to understand the protection.

Anyway, personally, I completely support this initiative and I plan to donate when it becomes reasonable for me to do so.

zakk · Post by **zakk** » Sun Aug 05, 2007 4:08 pm

GaijinPunch wrote:How long does it take to write a driver, anyway? Well, I'm sure it varies. I remember when someone was working on System24. I checked and checked and checked for months and there was no progress. Then, a couple years later, they're playable in MAME, although they look goofy due to the medium resolution.

It wildly varies. If it uses chips that existing drivers already emulate, it can go fast. If it uses currently unemulated chips someone has to write all the support for that, which can take a while.

If it has protection, that can take a long time depending on the type of protection, as it has to be reverse engineered.

And despite all of this; it only gets done when mamedev gets around to it.

The absolutely worst case scenario here is it gets dumped, someone sort of works on it, but only gets it 1/4th of the way working (think the initial DOJ driver) and then Arika/Cave goes 'whoa wtf, no way' and it gets yanked. That means it won't be touched for a long time then. And even if you could find someone to finish it for you, you can't distribute it openly.

bcass · Post by **bcass** » Sun Aug 05, 2007 4:49 pm

It wouldn't be unreasonable to assume that Cave weren't happy with the development of a MAME DOJ driver simply because it would hurt sales of the PS2 release. In that case, Ketsui is no longer being sold, no port on the horizon, so possibly less likelyhood of Cave getting upset about this one. After all, it wouldn't be hurting sales.

Anyway, for the moment, I've contributed $10. May contribute more at a later date if needed.

Circa2113 · Post by **Circa2113** » Sun Aug 05, 2007 5:16 pm

I'll donate sometime next week....cave has already drained my bank account for a while.

pixelcorps · Post by **pixelcorps** » Sun Aug 05, 2007 7:54 pm

nZero wrote:PGM driver is already quite healthy, probably even moreso in ElSemi's emulator than in MAME. To my knowledge, the issues regarding Ketsui are:

- undumped
- per-game protection on later PGM games, incl. all Cave
- possibly Arika

number 1 we are taking care of

number 2 is going to be a learning experience.
number 3 had their chance

rtw · Post by **rtw** » Sun Aug 05, 2007 10:08 pm

Guru wanted you all to know that removing SOP44 ROMS is simple!
He also wanted to let you know that he has the PCB images as well.

And he has a surprise for that pesky ARM7

Now donate...

rtw

Never_Scurred · Post by **Never_Scurred** » Sun Aug 05, 2007 10:38 pm

rtw wrote:Guru wanted you all to know that removing SOP44 ROMS is simple!
He also wanted to let you know that he has the PCB images as well.

And he has a surprise for that pesky ARM7

Now donate...

rtw

"happy sighs"

On the other hand, I hope no one is expecting a working playable driver anytime soon. Anyways, god bless Guru.

elvis · Post by **elvis** » Sun Aug 05, 2007 10:43 pm

GaijinPunch wrote:although they look goofy due to the medium resolution.

"Looks goofy"? Not understanding that bit. If you play the game on a proper medium-res arcade monitor, it looks fine. Upscaling it to a high-res monitor is not a fault of MAME if you're playing the game on a monitor it wasn't designed for.

GaijinPunch · Post by **GaijinPunch** » Sun Aug 05, 2007 10:57 pm

If you play the game on a proper medium-res arcade monitor, it looks fine.

Don't have one... or would've bought the PCB by now. Medium Res monitors don't grow on trees around here.

Cave weren't happy with the development of a MAME DOJ driver simply because it would hurt sales of the PS2 release

Actually it would... they had nothing to do w/ the PS2 release. Arika/Cave getting uppity about Ketsui is another story. They definitely have the right to.

lawnspic · Post by **lawnspic** » Sun Aug 05, 2007 11:41 pm

Dont know if anyone over at 1Emulation knows about this, will give them a heads up

Maybe GoGo, +T+, or any of the senior members there could help

bcass · Post by **bcass** » Mon Aug 06, 2007 1:02 am

GaijinPunch wrote:
Cave weren't happy with the development of a MAME DOJ driver simply because it would hurt sales of the PS2 release
Actually it would... they had nothing to do w/ the PS2 release. Arika/Cave getting uppity about Ketsui is another story. They definitely have the right to.

How come you edited my full sentence? You changed the context from a theoretical assumption to an actual statement of fact. Poor show. Just to refresh minds, this is what I wrote:

It wouldn't be unreasonable to assume that Cave weren't happy with the development of a MAME DOJ driver simply because it would hurt sales of the PS2 release.

Do Cave not get royalities from the ports then? More than possible me thinks. If not rayalties, then certainly some sort of fee, otherwise they wouldn't engage in the home market (via other developers). In layman's terms, Cave made money from the PS2 home conversion of DOJ.

GaijinPunch · Post by **GaijinPunch** » Mon Aug 06, 2007 1:37 am

You changed the context from a theoretical assumption to an actual statement of fact.

Poor show.

o Cave not get royalities from the ports then?

No I didn't, no it wasn't, and most likely, no they don't. They could (nobody knows except them and Arika) but it's more likely Arika buys the rights for the port outright, and Cave gets a fee.

Editing your sentence didn't change the context. As stated umpteen times before, Cave doesn't even publish their own arcade games, much less console games. It is still their game, but Arika is the one that asked DOJ be removed. Assuming they've done the most work on a port, they are the ones that would be hurt the most by an emulated version.

gavin19 · Post by **gavin19** » Mon Aug 06, 2007 2:13 am

lawnspic wrote:Dont know if anyone over at 1Emulation knows about this, will give them a heads up

Maybe GoGo, +T+, or any of the senior members there could help

I almost forgot about 1emu. Guess it wouldn't do any harm to post some info over there.

pixelcorps · Post by **pixelcorps** » Mon Aug 06, 2007 2:31 am

if anyone wishes to do so, then go for it, plz

toastyohs · Post by **toastyohs** » Mon Aug 06, 2007 2:32 am

seems as if someone already has:

http://www.1emulation.com/forums/index. ... opic=23082

pixelcorps · Post by **pixelcorps** » Mon Aug 06, 2007 2:35 am

i'm loving the proactiveness

EOJ · Post by **EOJ** » Mon Aug 06, 2007 2:36 am

Me too. Good to see people getting involved in this.

pixelcorps · Post by **pixelcorps** » Mon Aug 06, 2007 2:42 am

coinopexpress don't have that $750ketsui board... well, we still have time...

Never_Scurred · Post by **Never_Scurred** » Mon Aug 06, 2007 2:48 am

pixelcorps wrote:coinopexpress don't have that $750ketsui board... well, we still have time...

I kinda figured something was up since they have had that advertised for the last few months or so. I would take the PCB plunge but there are not enough reliable places to get pcb's. I'd much rather not have to deal with careless owners, dead boards, and the high probability of getting ripped off by someone from a different continent.

mainpatr1 · Post by **mainpatr1** » Mon Aug 06, 2007 4:05 am

Yes! We need more Cave on mame.

DP,DDP,Guwange/ESP R.A.D.E just isn't enough.

bcass · Post by **bcass** » Mon Aug 06, 2007 4:11 am

GaijinPunch wrote:
You changed the context from a theoretical assumption to an actual statement of fact.

Poor show.

o Cave not get royalities from the ports then?
No I didn't, no it wasn't, and most likely, no they don't. They could (nobody knows except them and Arika) but it's more likely Arika buys the rights for the port outright, and Cave gets a fee.

Editing your sentence didn't change the context. As stated umpteen times before, Cave doesn't even publish their own arcade games, much less console games. It is still their game, but Arika is the one that asked DOJ be removed. Assuming they've done the most work on a port, they are the ones that would be hurt the most by an emulated version.

I'm sorry mate, and I don't want to drag this thread into oblivion, but you plainly changed the context/meaning of my original post by editing parts of it out. Anyone reading my orignal post, and what you quoted can see that.

This is what I originally wrote:

It wouldn't be unreasonable to assume that Cave weren't happy with the development of a MAME DOJ driver simply because it would hurt sales of the PS2 release.

This is what you quoted:

Cave weren't happy with the development of a MAME DOJ driver simply because it would hurt sales of the PS2 release.

Not sure why you did it, since in the end, you seem to agree with me in that the most likely reason the MAMEdev team were contacted about the DOJ driver was due to the on-going publishing of that game. IE - the release of the MAME DOJ driver could hurt sales of DOJ. And yes, I know that Cave do not publish their own games. No one has ever said they do (not in this thread I think anyway). That doesn't mean that they would not lose money in the event of a MAME driver appearing for a game they sold the rights for to be published on a home format.