Why the Gradius IV hate?

[fixjuxa]

I'm not talking about this forum in particular, but rather the general consensus. Upon looking at this forum's Top 25 list from previous years I see other Gradius games have made the list, but never Gradius IV. I even remember seeing somebody mention it as their most hated(or one of their most hated) shmups ever in a thread on this forum. The reason I ask is because I've been picking up all kinds of shmups I never had a chance to play on the PSX/PS2. Strikers 1945 II, R-Type Delta, Gunbird, Shikigami No Shiro I & II, Gradius III & IV, etc. I played quite a bit of Gradius V back when it first came out and it's my opinion that Gradius IV is just as good, though certainly much harder...perhaps even unfairly so at times, but just as good nonetheless. Specifically I think it has more interesting and varied level themes and designs. Why is it so often considered to be the worst of the Gradius games? Is it because the other one's are so much better(I heard Gradius Gaiden is really good), or is there just something fundamentally wrong with the game that I've failed to notice? Just for the record, I've only played a very little bit of Gradius III, ten or so hours of Gradius IV, and a ton of hours of Gradius V.

[shinsage]

LOVE Gradius IV.
Highly underappreciated game, if you ask me.

The graphics look like 3D made in the 80s, the music is something out of a dentist's office...but I love it.

I'm going to assume the reason most people don't like it is for the reasons above and because it came after Gradius III and Gaiden (which most people consider the best in the series).

If someone was selling the soundtrack on the cheap, I'd pick it up in a jiffy. This game's just one big guilty pleasure for me.

[Ayanami]

though certainly much harder...perhaps even unfairly so at times

This is the first issue that really hurts it IMO. The game is just cheap as hell.

Specifically I think it has more interesting and varied level themes and designs. Why is it so often considered to be the worst of the Gradius games?

All of the Gradius games have varied themes except for 5, which took a much more mechanical feel. That is why a lot of people like Gaiden more than 5, because it stays true to the Gradius feel of different varied levels. If the levels are what got ya hooked on 4, then you have to play Gaiden. It beats the pants off of it.

That, and I think Gradius 4 is boring and the worst looking out of all of them. Definitely does not hold a candle to 5 or Gaiden.

[fixjuxa]

If the levels are what got ya hooked on 4, then you have to play Gaiden. It beats the pants off of it.

I'd love to play Gradius Gaiden but the only way that's gonna happen is if I import a Japanese console or buy a PSP. Neither of which I'm willing to do at this point. I only recently purcahsed a PS2 of my own despite owning a dozen or so games for it for years now.

You really think Gradius IV looks worse than III, II, or I? I've played III and thought IV looked significantly better.

[Ayanami]

You have to keep in mind the time period when the games were made. Honestly, even with out that I think IV is the worst looking one. IV never wowed me like Gradius V did. I can understand why people enjoy Gaiden more than V because of the more traditional Gradius play. But IV more than V? That is just crazy.

[Sonic R]

I think III (AC) is the worse of the franchise. It is beyond cheap and not fair

Gradius IV is good enough for me.

Gradius is classic, II is awesome, Gaiden is the best, and V feels like another game with similar mechanics to traditional Gradius.

All of the Gradius games have varied themes except for 5, which took a much more mechanical feel. That is why a lot of people like Gaiden more than 5, because it stays true to the Gradius feel of different varied levels. If the levels are what got ya hooked on 4, then you have to play Gaiden. It beats the pants off of it.

I can agree with this. I am traditionalist when it comes to Gradius, which is why I guess I couldn't feel V but have mad love for Gaiden.
Only real way to play Gaiden is on console. PSP is PiSP poor with it control. I can't take it no more and I finally get console version of Gaiden

[Damocles]

Because it's cheap. The levels also feel really generic to me.

[Bloodreign]

I don't mind IV at all, played it many many times, the music is a bit too chirpy for a Gradius title, and yes some of the stage themes could've used a kick in the pants (much like Gaiden did), other than that I enjoy playing the hell out of the game (second best performance by me ever in a Gradius title, beat IV in 3 credits, ONCE, only beaten by 1CCing Gradius 1 twice), the boss rush isn't too bad save for Tetran (that bastard and his wildly swinging legs), and listening to Gofer's cheesy ending speech gets a giggle out of me every time.

Gaiden on the other hand, can't say enough good about that game.

[DJ Incompetent]

Why is it so often considered to be the worst of the Gradius games?

1. Completely failed to improve on any of III's introduced (powerup) concepts.

2. Completely failed to improve on all of Gaiden's concepts, even after they pretty much solved the universal Gradius respawn problem by making powerups abundant.

3. They instead decide to step way the hell backward and do Gradius II again with theme-swaps on whatever hardware they had around at the time, then toss in the end of Gradius II into the intro to show Konami nearly ran out of friggin' imagination and call it a """homage""" as an excuse. I bet that idea was ok'd by the guy who'd go on to write the Silent Hill plotlines.

4. The Marvel vs. Capcom 2 BGM effect. (Boss themes & arrange versions are sweet though)

5. Armor Piercing


Seriously, I really liked this game until I finally got to play II. No wonder nobody really tried to release it on U.S. consoles...

[DEL]

Gradius IV is the game that boils my blood more than any other game. More than Starforce, more than Gradius V, more than Psikyo games.
My name's not tviks, so I can't handle this game.

II is my favourite.

[Sonic R]

II is my favourite.

II is my IInd favorite! I like both Famicom and Arcade Gradius II. Famicom is really almost its own game with all the different things it did especially for the hardware it on.

(Gaiden is my Ist favorite)

DJI puts good perspective on the Gradius IV to Gradius II compairson. That is interesting view and is so true. II is on point like a funky joint.

[Klatrymadon]

My name's not tviks, so I can't handle this game.

Course you can, mate. It takes a while, but once you've got the bubble stage sussed out, you're sorted.

... At least until you come to the WINDMILLS OF FUTILITY.

[tviks]

It is indeed underrated. The graphics are great and gameplay is smooth with no slowdown (although that kinda makes the game harder). The weapon types are surprisingly well balanced too (unlike Gradius III). The soundtrack is weak compared to others though.

I think the hate is mostly because of the difficulty. This is the hardest Gradius game ever made. Yes, even harder than Gradius III arcade. And I'm talking about the MAX difficulty, not the first loop difficulty. Even japanese experts like BGR can hardly get past loop 6 using stage select (I recently got to loop 11 though).

[FRO]

I think I SLIGHTLY prefer IV to III, but that's not saying much. I just recently picked up Gradius III/IV on PS2, & I have to say while I like IV's different look & feel (plus the fact that I can consistently get through the 1st level without dying an extremely lame death), it has earned a mite of respect from me. That said, I find the bubble stage to be very difficult, & a bit too frustrating after the relative ease of the first stage.

Gradius III is just too hard. I also have the SNES version, which is supposed to be easier, but I didn't think it was much easier, except perhaps due to the slowdown. I have this issue where I constantly die once I get one speedup, missiles, and 2 options. I tried going for the shield instead so I could pass that area - no dice, I still sucked & wasted all my shield hits. Once I do get past the first stage, I have a difficult time getting even half-way through the 2nd stage. Once you die in the 2nd level, forget about it. A naked Vic Viper is useless against the barrage of bubbles. I mean, you can fly through some of them without shooting & it helps, but eventually you get overwhelmed. I only made it past the level 2 boss once, & was mauled in the 3rd level shortly thereafter, having no weapons due to death in the previous level.

[Turrican]

Why is it so often considered to be the worst of the Gradius games?

1. Completely failed to improve on any of III's introduced (powerup) concepts.

2. Completely failed to improve on all of Gaiden's concepts, even after they pretty much solved the universal Gradius respawn problem by making powerups abundant.

3. They instead decide to step way the hell backward and do Gradius II again with theme-swaps on whatever hardware they had around at the time, then toss in the end of Gradius II into the intro to show Konami nearly ran out of friggin' imagination and call it a """homage""" as an excuse. I bet that idea was ok'd by the guy who'd go on to write the Silent Hill plotlines.

4. The Marvel vs. Capcom 2 BGM effect. (Boss themes & arrange versions are sweet though)

5. Armor Piercing

6. released after Gradius Gaiden, which was better in every possible way;

7. A minor graphical facelift of an '88 classic... Out in arcades in '99, and to the vast majority of us in 2001. Not exactly fresh.

[Blade]

I haven't even PLAYED it and people are hating on it???

[landshark]

Gradius IV is the game that boils my blood more than any other game. More than Starforce, more than Gradius V, more than Psikyo games.
My name's not tviks, so I can't handle this game.

II is my favourite.

Gradius V? Gradius V is the kindest of them all with allowing you to respawn in place an pick up your options.

Plus, you are great at Gradius V - I saw your score posting.

[NAVVARR]

If the levels are what got ya hooked on 4, then you have to play Gaiden. It beats the pants off of it.

I'd love to play Gradius Gaiden but the only way that's gonna happen is if I import a Japanese console or buy a PSP. Neither of which I'm willing to do at this point. I only recently purcahsed a PS2 of my own despite owning a dozen or so games for it for years now.

You really think Gradius IV looks worse than III, II, or I? I've played III and thought IV looked significantly better.

Hey there- get yourself a chipped PS1- if you are lucky, you get them really cheap at cr boot sales- i've got about 4-5 lying about the loft- incase they ever break.
-Dont bother importing- you'll get fleeced.

[BrianC]

I haven't played much of Gradius IV yet, but the first level seemed very familiar...

This IGN review perplexes me. I understand they are entitled to an option, but they are treating Gradius III SNES like it's the best Gradius ever aside from Gradius V. The "another take" reviewer has the PSP collection but makes no mention of Gaiden.

Originally found on the Super NES in 1991, Gradius III was one of the first and most impressive games for Nintendo's 16-bit system. It was adapted from an arcade release – an arcade release that was known for its unrelenting and near-maddening level of difficulty. It was so tough, so inhospitable to new players, that Konami actually pulled the coin-op unit in a factory recall shortly after its debut.

The SNES port retains that madness. It was toned down a bit, but just a bit, as Gradius III is still a true challenge.

I found the SNES version to be MUCH easier. On normal mode for SNES I got past 3 or 4 levels without playing the game for awhile. On the arcade version, I'm still stuck on the first level. From what I played so far, some of the "cheaper" obstacles seem to have been removed from the SNES version.

[tviks]

"As equipped at the game's onset, it's actually impossible to finish the game."

That line in the review made me smile.

[BrianC]

"As equipped at the game's onset, it's actually impossible to finish the game."

That line in the review made me smile.

Yeah, that review is almost as bad as their top tens.

[PFG 9000]

You have to keep in mind the time period when the games were made. Honestly, even with out that I think IV is the worst looking one.

This is a rather ridiculous thing to say. Hmm, let's take a peek at some screens...






Pretty clear, eh? It's comparable to Gaiden, but easily a prettier game than I-III.

Anyway, I have a soft spot for Gradius IV. It takes a lot of abuse but really is quite fun. Yeah, it's cheap at times, and yeah, the armor piercing laser is utter shit. But it's all about that magma stage, with its awesome bobbing and weaving lava waves. Very fun in my book. And the last stage is a blast too.

[DEL]

I think I just need to see a tviks replay of IV. (not that I could play any Gradius game to anywhere near his level , but to iron out my creases to the point where I'm no longer punching the screen in frustration).

[DJ Incompetent]

I think I just need to see a tviks replay of IV.

alamone can help http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pfs3aXCh-xU

[Turrican]

You have to keep in mind the time period when the games were made. Honestly, even with out that I think IV is the worst looking one.

This is a rather ridiculous thing to say. Hmm, let's take a peek at some screens...

Pretty clear, eh? It's comparable to Gaiden, but easily a prettier game than I-III.

Actually, Ayanami's line doesn't feel ridiculous at all - and even with your sample pics in front of my eyes, I clearly prefer the pixel art of the first three. To each his own.

[Strider77]

pics in yo face bee-yotch!!

[shinsage]

- and even with your sample pics in front of my eyes, I clearly prefer the pixel art of the first three.

Dittoez.

Those screens you posted look great, it was as if you were trying to make an arguement against IV.

Relative to the time periods, IV is an ugly ass game.

Look at screens of Salamander 2, which came out three years earlier, and then compare those to IV. It's obvious Konami was just being lazy with the graphics in IV.

[BrianC]

You have to keep in mind the time period when the games were made. Honestly, even with out that I think IV is the worst looking one.

This is a rather ridiculous thing to say. Hmm, let's take a peek at some screens...

Pretty clear, eh? It's comparable to Gaiden, but easily a prettier game than I-III.

Actually, Ayanami's line doesn't feel ridiculous at all - and even with your sample pics in front of my eyes, I clearly prefer the pixel art of the first three. To each his own.

I agree, and a far better comparison would be the first level of Gradius II compared to the first level of Gradius IV. The gold dragons pale in comparison to the fiery ones.

[fixjuxa]

Wow, got a lot of good replies here. It's nice to participate in some shmup discussion. Not very easy to do at IGN where I usually post. Anyway, it sounds like part of the reason I like IV while many others don't is because I have limited experience with the series as a whole. Perhaps if I'd already played I,II, III, and Gaiden to death I would have hated Gradius IV... or at the very least been bored and unimpressed by it.

I laughed when people mentioned hating the bubble stage. That stage is brutal. The boss is hard as hell too. Much harder than a lot of the bosses that come later in the game.

I really should try to get around to playing Gradius III extensively sometime soon, but with work, trying to get back into working out, and watching the NBA playoffs it's been hard to find time for shmupping. Hell, I'm still trying to make my way through Super Paper Mario.

[shinsage]

The Bubble stage in IV is way easier than the one in III.
Just get a bunch of options and laser those suckas.

Both Bubble levels are hard at first, but if you practice at it you can 1-life the whole stage...