shmups.system11.org

Shmups Forum
 
* FAQ    * Search
 * Register  * Login 
It is currently Wed Jul 26, 2017 10:36 am View unanswered posts
View active topics



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 4108 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 52, 53, 54, 55, 56, 57, 58 ... 137  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler
PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2016 1:24 am 


User avatar

Joined: 17 Apr 2008
Posts: 1377
Oh wow, I just realized something: Couldn't the OSSC be programed to convert 480i to 240p, like many of use the Extron RGB to do? Super useful for 15hz crt owners with Xbox 360/PS2 ports of low res arcade games that only run at 480i.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler
PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2016 4:07 am 


User avatar

Joined: 06 Oct 2015
Posts: 1822
Location: Montréal, Canada
The OSSC outputs DVI, which 15KHz CRTs don't support...


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler
PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2016 5:21 am 


User avatar

Joined: 17 Apr 2008
Posts: 1377
Guspaz wrote:
The OSSC outputs DVI, which 15KHz CRTs don't support...


HD Fury adapter would solve that problem.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler
PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2016 10:36 am 



Joined: 03 Apr 2016
Posts: 2
I have been on the fence of ordering an OSSC for months, but I have a nagging question:

The Saturn, SNES, PS2 and a number of other consoles can output, or be modded for SPDIF (digital audio). If I were to consider an OSSC I would wish to use digital audio with video, but I see no provision for it with the current hardware. Could current or future revisions add a capability to combine SPDIF audio into the digital AV out? Displayport requires no licensing and would be perfect for the job.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler
PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2016 11:48 am 


User avatar

Joined: 02 Oct 2010
Posts: 2746
Location: UK
Quote:
Could current or future revisions add a capability to combine SPDIF audio into the digital AV out?


Unlikely, perhaps an add-on board could do this though.

Quote:
Couldn't the OSSC be programed to convert 480i to 240p, like many of use the Extron RGB to do?


Open source down converter has been discussed already, it's definitely a possibility.
_________________
https://www.evolvehq.com/players/buckoa51
OSSC Forums - http://www.videogameperfection.com/forums
Please check the XRGB Wiki before posting about the OSSC, XRGB Mini or XRGB3 - http://junkerhq.net/xrgb/index.php/Main_Page


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler
PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2016 8:09 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 17 Apr 2008
Posts: 1377
BuckoA51 wrote:
Open source down converter has been discussed already, it's definitely a possibility.


Oh, I missed that discussion. I imagine it would be as simple as running the line-double mode and only outputting half the lines, right?


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler
PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2016 10:53 am 



Joined: 01 Sep 2014
Posts: 61
BazookaBen wrote:
Guspaz wrote:
The OSSC outputs DVI, which 15KHz CRTs don't support...


HD Fury adapter would solve that problem.

Are you able to get SD through your HD Fury? I've tried 576i through an HD Fury 4 and it didn't like it. 576i via component from the same source to the same display was fine though.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler
PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2016 7:37 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 17 Apr 2008
Posts: 1377
Sid wrote:
Are you able to get SD through your HD Fury? I've tried 576i through an HD Fury 4 and it didn't like it. 576i via component from the same source to the same display was fine though.


I thought I had read that other users on the forum had achieved 15hz with some models. I could remembering that wrong, though, I'll have to try it myself sometime with a PC.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler
PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2016 8:10 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 15 Dec 2012
Posts: 431
Location: Finland
BazookaBen wrote:
BuckoA51 wrote:
Open source down converter has been discussed already, it's definitely a possibility.


Oh, I missed that discussion. I imagine it would be as simple as running the line-double mode and only outputting half the lines, right?
It's not as simple as it sounds because 480i is odd number of lines (525) which you cannot just simply split in half.

Paianni wrote:
The Saturn, SNES, PS2 and a number of other consoles can output, or be modded for SPDIF (digital audio). If I were to consider an OSSC I would wish to use digital audio with video, but I see no provision for it with the current hardware. Could current or future revisions add a capability to combine SPDIF audio into the digital AV out? Displayport requires no licensing and would be perfect for the job.
HDMI TX chip (IT6613E) in OSSC has SPDIF input pin which supports 32-192kHz sampling rate. You'd only need to connect SPDIF signal (electrical, not optical) of such console to that pin, possibly through a level shifter, and then add some modifications to the firmware to enable digital audio out via HDMI/DVI port.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler
PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2016 8:20 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 15 Dec 2012
Posts: 431
Location: Finland
Firmware 0.70 is now out and wikipage has been updated accordingly. There are a couple important things to note after the upgrade:
* Some remote control keys have been reassigned, so e.g. input selection is handled differently than in previous firmwares. Remote control picture on the wikipage shows new functionality. Also, modified keymaps need to be reprogrammed after the update since several new keys are added.
* Saved settings from previous firmwares are no more valid so they must be created from scratch


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler
PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2016 8:39 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 17 Apr 2008
Posts: 1377
marqs wrote:
It's not as simple as it sounds because 480i is odd number of lines (525) which you cannot just simply split in half.



Huh, that doesn't really make sense to me, because there are 240 active lines on each refresh, so is there one additional line on the front or back porch every-other refresh or something?

I guess in my mind, the OSSC would just do it's normal line doubling mode internally, so just doubling the 240 active lines each refresh to 480 (making 480i into 480p). Then only displaying 240 lines on the output in a progressive format.

Either way, if it is possible, it's definitely a feature quite a few of us would use. Because I haven't been able to get 100% pure 240p from any of my Extron RGB's.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler
PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2016 11:03 pm 



Joined: 09 Apr 2012
Posts: 1928
Two questions:

1: if full range RGB is displayed as full range, is limited range component converted to full range or would we have to change TV settings per source?

2: in your notes you've written the SD card part of the firmware needs replacing. Should I worry about which SD card I use for updating?


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler
PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2016 4:35 am 


User avatar

Joined: 04 Sep 2008
Posts: 539
marqs wrote:
Firmware 0.70 is now out and wikipage has been updated accordingly. There are a couple important things to note after the upgrade:
* Some remote control keys have been reassigned, so e.g. input selection is handled differently than in previous firmwares. Remote control picture on the wikipage shows new functionality. Also, modified keymaps need to be reprogrammed after the update since several new keys are added.
* Saved settings from previous firmwares are no more valid so they must be created from scratch

Thank you !
Other feature requests is very exciting !
_________________
XRGB & OSSC Wiki


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler
PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2016 1:03 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 04 Sep 2008
Posts: 539
x3 mode is broken with scanlines > vertical scanlines are "forced"

undocumented change : DVI/HDMI switching is possible without DIY
_________________
XRGB & OSSC Wiki


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler
PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2016 3:31 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 03 Feb 2015
Posts: 108
Location: Manchester, UK
My micro SD doesn't seem to be compatible with the OSSC. Bummer.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler
PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2016 6:03 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 02 Oct 2010
Posts: 2746
Location: UK
Quote:
x3 mode is broken with scanlines > vertical scanlines are "forced"


You mean horizontal are forced and you can't choose vertical right?
_________________
https://www.evolvehq.com/players/buckoa51
OSSC Forums - http://www.videogameperfection.com/forums
Please check the XRGB Wiki before posting about the OSSC, XRGB Mini or XRGB3 - http://junkerhq.net/xrgb/index.php/Main_Page


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler
PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2016 6:05 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 04 Sep 2008
Posts: 539
BuckoA51 wrote:
Quote:
x3 mode is broken with scanlines > vertical scanlines are "forced"


You mean horizontal are forced and you can't choose vertical right?

nop, the opposite :)
enable x3 mode + scanline you will see
_________________
XRGB & OSSC Wiki


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler
PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2016 6:12 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 02 Oct 2010
Posts: 2746
Location: UK
I just did, horizontal scanlines working fine... :?:

Probably you have auto scanline mode on? Switch it to manual then you should be able to select either.
_________________
https://www.evolvehq.com/players/buckoa51
OSSC Forums - http://www.videogameperfection.com/forums
Please check the XRGB Wiki before posting about the OSSC, XRGB Mini or XRGB3 - http://junkerhq.net/xrgb/index.php/Main_Page


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler
PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2016 6:43 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 04 Sep 2008
Posts: 539
BuckoA51 wrote:
I just did, horizontal scanlines working fine... :?:

Probably you have auto scanline mode on? Switch it to manual then you should be able to select either.

nop, I confirm the problem (AUTO or MANUAL same result).

Ok i found why, it happens if scanline ID is set to ODD
_________________
XRGB & OSSC Wiki


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler
PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2016 2:25 am 


User avatar

Joined: 18 Feb 2015
Posts: 1297
Location: DFW area, Texas
I've got a question for those that have a VP50:

Right now, I've got Gamecube component hooked into it because I've had to order a SCART-wired cable in order to test 240p consoles with the OSSC (all my cables are JP21). What concerns me about the DVDO VP50 is there appears to be no settings to adjust how the image is scaled to 1080p. In the Framemeister, you can change the H and V Scaler settings to get razor sharp pixels if you want, but the VP50 seems to be a thing where "you'll take how it scales and like it" sort of deal. So in the case of the Gamecube, the pixels are smoothed with a high contrast filter, with no user access to change how the scaling is focused.

So while I'm waiting on my SCART cable to test the SNES into the OSSC + DVDO, I'm worried the end result will be the DVDO scales the image to 1080p with that same smoothed pixel look. Just hoping to hear from somebody experienced on this.

Edit: Did some direct input tests with S-Video Super NES, and yeah, the VP50's scaling doesn't give any options for fine-tuning pixel focus like the Framemeister does. It gives out a fairly sharp picture, but not as crystal clear as you can get from the Framemeister, and there's a strange high contrast element going on that looks overly processed. Additionally while the zoom functions are much more user-friendly, they are limited in scope, and obviously trying to nail an integer scale is pointless due to the way the VP50 scales.
_________________
Framemeister profiles: http://www.firebrandx.com/framemeisterprofiles.html

NES NTSC Palettes: http://www.firebrandx.com/nespalette.html

SNES Serial DB: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1HYLy_TTDop_FzuX6qnxuQI43upg4raXfno582taO744/pubhtml


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler
PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2016 5:53 am 


User avatar

Joined: 05 Nov 2013
Posts: 4944
Location: EU
The contrast thing might be because of the input <-> output levels bug, you might want to double-check on that.

The scaling shouldn't be configurable, I think like on the VP30 you only have a sharpness slider and that's it.
The VP50 Pro features Details and Edge sliders, which fine-control the scaling's sharpness and interpolation strenght.
_________________
Image
Goompaolo9500 wrote:
Puyos are basically the things that you should shoot to counter nuisance puyos


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler
PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2016 7:13 am 



Joined: 02 Dec 2008
Posts: 320
Are you using 480p or 480i out of the Gamecube with component? With 480p, the high contrast effect you see may just be the ringing. On 480i, it's most likely the diagonal enhancement, which is non-defeatable. This is just how DVDOs work and is discussed in some detail on Fudoh's site.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler
PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2016 7:21 am 


User avatar

Joined: 18 Feb 2015
Posts: 1297
Location: DFW area, Texas
cfx wrote:
Are you using 480p or 480i out of the Gamecube with component? With 480p, the high contrast effect you see may just be the ringing. On 480i, it's most likely the diagonal enhancement, which is non-defeatable. This is just how DVDOs work and is discussed in some detail on Fudoh's site.


I tried 480p Gamecube, and then I tried SNES S-Video. Both had what I'd call a "fair" picture, but nothing like the Framemeister's ability to make razor-sharp pixels scale with perfect clarity.

Anyway, the VP50 has the latest firmware installed from what I understand. I will say colorwise, the picture is considerably better than the Framemeister; I'm just missing that fine control on scaling the Framemeister has.
_________________
Framemeister profiles: http://www.firebrandx.com/framemeisterprofiles.html

NES NTSC Palettes: http://www.firebrandx.com/nespalette.html

SNES Serial DB: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1HYLy_TTDop_FzuX6qnxuQI43upg4raXfno582taO744/pubhtml


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler
PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2016 8:34 am 


User avatar

Joined: 18 Feb 2015
Posts: 1297
Location: DFW area, Texas
Made a screen grab of Wind Waker 480p >>> OSSC >>> DVDO VP50 at 1080p output:

Spoiler: show
Image


It actually looks pretty good even without being able to fine-tune scaler focus. I'm going to do some screen grab tests with the Framemeister at the same fullscreen zoom setting to compare and contrast.
_________________
Framemeister profiles: http://www.firebrandx.com/framemeisterprofiles.html

NES NTSC Palettes: http://www.firebrandx.com/nespalette.html

SNES Serial DB: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1HYLy_TTDop_FzuX6qnxuQI43upg4raXfno582taO744/pubhtml


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler
PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2016 10:08 am 


User avatar

Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 10448
Location: Germany
The DVDOs are VIDEO scalers and not really suited to scale graphics. Actually their scaling engine is very aggressive. The reason why DVDO opted for a scaling engine like is that is let's you think there are more details in SD material, so upscaled SD looks pretty good.

The scaling engine is "just good enough" to upscale scanlined 480p material. If you try to upscale 480p material without scanlines, than your TV is likely to do a better job on its own (you have a Sony, right?). If you take a clean 480p 2D game (PS2 or DC for best video quality), you'll see that the DVDO does a lot of damage to the image. It adds bit of ringing (those high contrast outlines - on your Zelda snapshot between the dark brown and orange borders of the save button) and doesn't loook very clean (causing fuzzy edges and such), nothing you like your Sony if fed with 480p from a clean source.

Upscaling 720p (from the OSSC for example) limits the damage, so it looks rather clean. I wouldn't say that you *gain* any quality, but you get the OSSC 720p compatibility (which your Sony won't display) and you get flexible overscan and zoom controls what your TV wouldn't offer either without doing much visible damage to the picture.

There are other video processors out there that offer great 480p upscaling (same or better quality as your Sony plus the flexible zoom and overscan controls), but they don't offer the easy controls of the DVDO, its compatibility or its current price.


Top
 Online Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler
PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2016 10:35 am 


User avatar

Joined: 18 Feb 2015
Posts: 1297
Location: DFW area, Texas
Actually my Sony is terrible at 480 upscaling on its own. The image is VERY blurry, so I avoid using my TV to upscale anything whenever possible.

Anyway, I forgot to test GBI.LL with it. I was able to get it to working on I guess line double mode (there's no way to tell what mode you are in). When I press the "Linemult.mode" button on the remote, I lose the picture from the VP50 and get no signal on my display. I will say the OSSC scanlines look quite nice.

But yeah, the VP50's upscaler engine seems to interpolate on both axis regardless. However, there is one advantage to this: You don't have to worry about dialing in a vertical integer scale. There's no "sizzle" from warped pixels, because everything is interpolated. The scanline function of the OSSC looks kosher even when I used the VP50's zoom functions to stretch Metroid Zero Mission to match 1920x1080. The downside is less sharp pixels than compared to what the Framemeister can do. Still though, I can see a lot of people enjoying this combo in spite of the sacrifice in clarity.

Gonna do some more screen grabs showing how Metroid Zero Mission looks on the combo.
_________________
Framemeister profiles: http://www.firebrandx.com/framemeisterprofiles.html

NES NTSC Palettes: http://www.firebrandx.com/nespalette.html

SNES Serial DB: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1HYLy_TTDop_FzuX6qnxuQI43upg4raXfno582taO744/pubhtml


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler
PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2016 10:44 am 


User avatar

Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 10448
Location: Germany
Quote:
Actually my Sony is terrible at 480 upscaling on its own.

what model did you have again ?


Top
 Online Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler
PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2016 10:57 am 


User avatar

Joined: 03 Feb 2015
Posts: 108
Location: Manchester, UK
Can anyone confirm compatible Micro SD cards? I've tried two Sandisk SDs (16gb and 8gb) now and neither worked.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler
PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2016 11:03 am 


User avatar

Joined: 04 Sep 2008
Posts: 539
Das Muel wrote:
Can anyone confirm compatible Micro SD cards? I've tried two Sandisk SDs (16gb and 8gb) now and neither worked.

Only 2 and 4 Gb worked for me.
_________________
XRGB & OSSC Wiki


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler
PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2016 11:12 am 


User avatar

Joined: 18 Feb 2015
Posts: 1297
Location: DFW area, Texas
Fudoh wrote:
Quote:
Actually my Sony is terrible at 480 upscaling on its own.

what model did you have again ?


KDL-55HX800

It's old, but still puts out a better picture than most LCDs of that size I've seen over the years. It just sucks at upscaling SD content.
_________________
Framemeister profiles: http://www.firebrandx.com/framemeisterprofiles.html

NES NTSC Palettes: http://www.firebrandx.com/nespalette.html

SNES Serial DB: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1HYLy_TTDop_FzuX6qnxuQI43upg4raXfno582taO744/pubhtml


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 4108 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 52, 53, 54, 55, 56, 57, 58 ... 137  Next

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Fudoh and 18 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Space Pilot 3K template by Jakob Persson
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group