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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-3
PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 7:52 am 


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That's just how PC Engine's are unfortunately. The only known fix is to use another processor that is more tolerant to the wobbly sync you get when you change the AFC level.
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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-3
PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 10:24 am 


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BuckoA51: true for the classic PCE systems, but I found the Doujindance Duos to be "fine" on the XRGB-3.

When using the FRONT RGB input: set the input termination to 220 ohm istead of 75 ohm (that can only be done on the front input). By doing so and using a AFC setting of about 4-5 the Duos modded by Doujindance were fine on my setup. Give it a try.


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-3
PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 11:23 am 


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That's fine if you have a processor or display that can handle manual AFC, many (e.g DVDO Edge, Gefen) cannot and will simply keep blanking the picture if you adjust it.
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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-3
PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 11:41 am 


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I never had any problems with adjusting the AFC manually. 4-5 brings a little instability with wobbling pixels, but only with 6 the picture would lose sync. 220 ohm input termination is essential for the PCE, so let him try the front RGB input. I'm sure it will be fine.


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-3
PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 12:55 pm 


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220 ohm made not a jot of difference for me, I've tried 2 different PC Engines.

As for manual AFC, neither the Edge nor the Gefen will tolerate it at all at any setting in my experience, you basically have to put up with the screen curve or have your picture blank out every so often (sometimes it can be 10 minutes or so). This is true on the Master System too and also what Fagin found with his PC Engine.

Still, as you say it can't hurt to try.
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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-3
PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 1:19 pm 



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What's the real issue here though:
PCE?
XRGB (or any other processor)?
Target display?

I'm not sure you can blame the PCE outright.... I get 100% stable results on my XRGB-2 into the EDGE.

I get 100% stable results with my XRGB-3 direct to my screen.

I get issues with XRGB-3 to EDGE (and even tried a sync amp and it made no difference).

Everything works flawlessly to a CRT.

Personally I think it's a combination of items..... if you have the wrong combination, that's just bad luck.

Strangely enough I ran my PCE into my CGA2VGA scaler and it was 100% stable..... but I needed to use my syncblaster cable as the syncstrke was not stable. I didn't try to replace the sync strike with the syncblaster in my PCE -> XRGB-3 -> EDGE chain.... perhaps I should.

There is unexplained shit.... then there is the handling of sync signals! :shock:
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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-3
PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 1:44 pm 


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I've tried a Syncblaster + Edge and Gefen and it didn't make a difference. Though I didn't try the Syncblaster with the composite sync trick on the Edge because I didn't know about it then.

It's not just the Edge as the Gefen VGA to DVI scaler does the exact same thing when AFC is manual. I just hope the Optoma doesn't have this problem.
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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-3
PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 1:51 pm 



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I don't know how to put this...... but it doesn't work with the Optoma either. I tried it the night before last and was meant to PM you about it.
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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-3
PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 2:11 pm 


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Just to be clear, what we're talking about here: Duo-R and RX systems give MUCH LESS TROUBLE than any of the other PCE systems. Of the classic ones the white one is the most problematic (compared to a Core 1 and 2). I never tried a SGX, but it's obviously troublesome as well. The dark Duo systems seem to be on par with the Core1/2 systems.


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-3
PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 2:38 pm 


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Oh, wonderful, guess I'll be selling the Optoma on then.

I've tried a Supergrafx and a Turbo Duo both had exactly the same problem. They did work with my old TV (old Hitachi Plasma) and also with my monitors.

Quote:
Just to be clear, what we're talking about here: Duo-R and RX systems give MUCH LESS TROUBLE than any of the other PCE systems.


You still have to change the AFC, which means you're screwed if you're using an Edge, Gefen or Optoma it seems!
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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-3
PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 3:11 pm 


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Thanks for all the replies. A few things:

1.) I tried changing it to 200ohms and about the only effect that had was that it made the image dimmer.

2.) I wanted to re-iterate, if I have it in B0 mode at 1024x768 with vsync lock off, I can set the AFC up to 6 and it's fine. But in B1 mode at 640x480 it keeps blinking. Any idea why this would be? Is my TV treating the higher resolutions differently?

I suspect if there is any culprit in the chain that it's the television itself. I know B1 mode only works if I have both the horizontal and vertical sync inverted. (this is true regardless of what console I'm using).
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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-3
PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 3:32 pm 


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Yep, same for me, B0 works but B1 won't. It's not your TV handling resolutions differently, just the way that B1 is different from B0.

It just seems certain processors (including some inside TV's/displays, some external) just don't work with manual AFC in B1.

Some displays need the sync inverted, that's not that unusual.
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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-3
PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 7:24 pm 


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BuckoA51 wrote:
Yep, same for me, B0 works but B1 won't. It's not your TV handling resolutions differently, just the way that B1 is different from B0.

It just seems certain processors (including some inside TV's/displays, some external) just don't work with manual AFC in B1.

Some displays need the sync inverted, that's not that unusual.


Since you have run into a similar issue, any idea if a gefen vga->hdmi or some sort of extron rgb unit would help? Or would I need to use a different scaler than the XRGB entirely?

Part of the reason I bring it up is my TV is very picky about what resolutions it seems to accept. So far I have only gotten it to work with B1 640x480 and B0 1024x768. According to the specification it should accept a much higher range of resolutions but perhaps I haven't hit upon the right combination of h-sync, v-sync inversion / locking.
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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-3
PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 7:47 pm 


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Since you have run into a similar issue, any idea if a gefen vga->hdmi or some sort of extron rgb unit would help? Or would I need to use a different scaler than the XRGB entirely?


Nope, as stated above the Gefen has the same problem. Extron also doesn't fix it. DVDO Edge doesn't work either, apparently neither does the Optoma. I'm starting to think that a Frame Meister might be the only solution here.

Quote:
Part of the reason I bring it up is my TV is very picky about what resolutions it seems to accept. So far I have only gotten it to work with B1 640x480 and B0 1024x768


It's not your TV, its the crappy/dated XRGB3 unfortunately! B1 only really outputs 640x480 anyway. The resolution menu (in B1) seems to have some effect on the signal that it outputs, but it doesn't change resolution. B0 mode is also terrible for compatibility. My set will only accept 1024x768 and 1600x something I forget. 1080p I've never got working on any display I've tried it with.
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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-3
PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 7:54 pm 


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BuckoA51 wrote:
Quote:
Since you have run into a similar issue, any idea if a gefen vga->hdmi or some sort of extron rgb unit would help? Or would I need to use a different scaler than the XRGB entirely?


Nope, as stated above the Gefen has the same problem. Extron also doesn't fix it. DVDO Edge doesn't work either, apparently neither does the Optoma. I'm starting to think that a Frame Meister might be the only solution here.

Quote:
Part of the reason I bring it up is my TV is very picky about what resolutions it seems to accept. So far I have only gotten it to work with B1 640x480 and B0 1024x768


It's not your TV, its the crappy/dated XRGB3 unfortunately! B1 only really outputs 640x480 anyway. The resolution menu (in B1) seems to have some effect on the signal that it outputs, but it doesn't change resolution. B0 mode is also terrible for compatibility. My set will only accept 1024x768 and 1600x something I forget. 1080p I've never got working on any display I've tried it with.


What TV are your using btw? I'm trying this on a Samsung LN32A450. Just wanted to see if there was some other commonality.
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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-3
PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 8:36 pm 


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DVDO Edge, my TV won't work with the XRGB3 on its own at all!
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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-3
PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2012 8:24 pm 


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So that's why you're going to sell the Optoma...

This is very dissapointing hearing about the PC Engine mods weakness. I would have bought one in the coming months, same goes for the NeoGeo AES system. There's only one thing to do. My friend has both the Geo and the Engine. I'll have to ask him to come up and bring the unit. I tested the AES system using just the XRGB-3 in B1 mode. Worked flawless in RGB and Component on my 32-inch VIZIO brand Plasma TV. Now I need to ask him to bring his PC Engine along with his EGA/CGA/RGB/YUV-to-VGA adapter. I'm going to test it to see if my display accepts a pre-modded PC Engine (CGA+-to-VGA adapter for back-up incase my beloved XRGB-3 rejects it). Thankfully I haven't a problem with the AFC settings. The manual adjustments really came in handy on my FZ-10 Panasonic 3DO with RGB capabilities.
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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-3
PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2012 8:31 pm 


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If your AES works in B1 mode, then a RGB-modded Duo-R/RX should works as well.


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-3
PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2012 8:51 pm 


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Fudoh wrote:
If your AES works in B1 mode, then a RGB-modded Duo-R/RX should works as well.


Thanks that's comforting to know. My display appears to be very adept at taking CONSOLES but has a low tolerance for Supergun related tech when XRGB-3 is involved. Although the CGA adapter allows my VIZIO to take the Hyper NeoGeo 64 and the Atomiswave just fine (on that note I want to try the Konami Board at some point). At any rate I'm going to ask him to bring up his PC Engine anyway just to make sure the operation XRGB is successful.
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Last edited by Rock Man on Wed May 02, 2012 8:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-3
PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2012 8:52 pm 


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Yep I concur with Fudoh, my PCE worked fine with the XRGB3 on my old Hitachi Plasma, and with my Samsung CRT, it's just certain other processors/displays it trips up.
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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-3
PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2012 8:56 pm 


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Excellent! When I get one I'll be sure to buy the R or RX model. Since those increase compatibility of display.
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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-3
PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2012 4:30 am 


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Did you guys know you can play PS2 in both Component and RGB using just 1 SCART cable? That's right no more speghetti swapping!!! I learned this trick from BuckoA51, connect the SCART cable. When the PS2 is turned on enter the system config and switch from "RGB" to "YPBPR" wait for the screen to go green. Enter XRGB-3 Options Menu. Options>RGB21 Signal>>YUV.

The rest is gravy. Enjoy the experience.

It's interesting to be able to see how Component looks versus SCART RGB. On my display RGB is clearly the superior image, sharper quality, vast color. By comparison Component feels a little blurry and probably smoother. Still, can't knock KOF XI (Japan) in progressive scan. I wonder if this trick works with the XBOX gonna try it out right now!
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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-3
PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2012 9:38 am 


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It won't work on the Xbox and indeed isn't needed, XBox component signal is nice and clean, and the XRGB3 will just transcode that nicely to VGA.

Quote:
On my display RGB is clearly the superior image, sharper quality, vast color. By comparison Component feels a little blurry and probably smoother.


Shouldn't be that bigger difference if you're going through the XRGB3 anyway. Just RGB tends to have a little less noise on it than component where PS2 is concerned. Remember if you get into difficulty and don't want to reset your XRGB3, you can always switch over to your Dreamcast, change the relevant setting and then switch back to your PS2. Daft how XRGB3 blanks the screen making changes impossible when there's no signal.
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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-3
PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 2:16 am 



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I'm having problem connecting the XRGB3 to my new projector (on B1 mode, have not tested B0 mode). It doesn't seem to be getting any signal although it does blackout everytime I turn on/off the console, in this case a JP Saturn. I have tested PC with 640 x 480 and they worked fine. Any idea what's wrong?


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-3
PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 8:54 am 


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yes, the projector can't handle the Saturn's sync frequency. In B1 this is just passed through, so you don't get standard 59.94Hz. It might very well work with another system connected, e.g. a PS2. Same problem with a lot of TVs. You could try to add an Extron RGB interface in between - it helped on my TV set, but it's not guarantee. B0 would work.


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-3
PostPosted: Sun May 13, 2012 3:24 pm 



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My XRGB-3 started giving me issues the other day after I unplugged it for a minute and then a while later popped it back in.

Video for illustration: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=514GPQ7Xr40

I've tried pushing video through both the RGB-21 and the D term component inputs and I get the same issue in both places so I don't think I've fried one of the inputs. Analog and Digital out both yield the same results, both through my Edge and straight to a monitor, and I've tried a full reset of the unit, to no avail. The only time I'm not getting a scrambled output is when I select an input that's not being fed any video. If I do that then it gives me a clean output and I can access the onscreen menu just fine.

Could there be a setting I've overlooked or did I simply manage to break the unit somehow?

EDIT:

I opened up the unit to see if I could find any physical flaws on the circuit board, but it looked fine to me. Only just before bedtime did it occur to me to do the same with the power supply. Turns out two of the capacitors are blown. Will go hunting for a new pair after work and report back after refitting them.

RE-EDIT:

Opted to replace the power supply alltogether and picked up one with a variable voltage setting that can use in several types of plugs, one matches the connector on the XRGB-3. Works like a charm now :)


Last edited by Thirst on Wed May 16, 2012 9:40 am, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-3
PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2012 9:28 am 



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Thanks fudoh, always great :D


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-3
PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 5:22 am 


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Fudoh wrote:
If your AES works in B1 mode, then a RGB-modded Duo-R/RX should works as well.


Indeed. Just tried my friends RGB-capable Duo-R on my 1080p HD Plasma, worked like a charm.

The only thing wrong with it is I had to adjust the AFC settings. At first I expected rolling blackouts but the picture remains stable. I didn't notice any wiggly effect either like what I get with the Genesis, Saturn, and other consoles whenever I turn up the AFC level. Very impressive for a Duo. Seems my TV is being awfully generous towards the Duo and AES systems.
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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-3
PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2012 8:22 pm 


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Famitakun on twitter has been playing around with many XRGB-3s! D:

http://www.twitpic.com/9nwd8e

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http://www.twitpic.com/9nwdmn

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Are there only 50 units left!?


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-3
PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2012 5:28 pm 


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^Wow what's the point? He's only depriving the niche market of the best middle class upscanner ever built. Forcing people to grab the unbelievably expensive converters. Unless he's going to sell these at reasonable prices then his intentions seem rather underhanded. I can see wanting a few back-ups but this is overkill.
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