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 Post subject: PC Advice
PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2017 7:46 pm 


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OK, I'm finally going to get a gaming PC now.
And unfortunately...I'm going Alienware. I just don't want to put one together, and all that horseshit.

So, could you guys tell me what I would need to run today's games in all their 60fps glory?
My budget is around 2000 bucks. I would like something that wouldn't be out of date next year.


EDIT: Would this be what I'm looking for?

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/alienware-a ... AUEALw_wcB

Or maybe this?

https://www.amazon.com/Alienware-AUR5-1 ... =alienware

Which would you guys pick?
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 Post subject: Re: PC Advice
PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2017 9:12 pm 


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Please advise.

I'm being impulsive today. :lol:
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 Post subject: Re: PC Advice
PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2017 9:22 pm 


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Do you really want or need a full sized ATX tower these days ?

There are so many console-sized but full powered gaming setups these days. Classic desktop sized like the Zotac ZBox Magnus or considerably smaller tower units like the Corsair One (Pro).

Performancewise a 1070 will offer you 60fps in most games up to 1440p resolution.


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 Post subject: Re: PC Advice
PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2017 9:31 pm 


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I think I would like to go with the tower.

Which one would you pick, Fudoh? And would this give me PS4 quality games, at 60fps? And probably be up to date for the next couple of years?
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 Post subject: Re: PC Advice
PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2017 9:36 pm 


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depends on your display(s) and the resolution they're running at. For Full HD and mostly anything at 1440p the 1070 is fine.

What I dislike about both offers is the 256GB SSD though. If you have a little extra money, go for a larger SSD drive (1TB). You really don't want to run out of SSD storage and start using the mechanical drive for game installs anytime soon.


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 Post subject: Re: PC Advice
PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2017 9:38 pm 


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Would it be easy to change the drive?
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 Post subject: Re: PC Advice
PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2017 9:51 pm 


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certainly.


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 Post subject: Re: PC Advice
PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2017 9:56 pm 


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I disagree about the SSD. Using a small one as a boot drive with your OS and programs, and putting most of your data on something like a Western Digital Black mechanical drive gives great results.

Considering the cost of SSDs the performance gains aren't great enough to go out and buy a huge expensive one so all your games will fit on it. I'm not worried about loading times in any PC games I play off of a good 7200 RPM mechanical drive. If you're used to consoles all load times will blow you away on a mechanical drive.


GPUs are difficult because they're still one of the fastest-advancing pieces of hardware right now. If you buy top of the line right now there will be a GPU that's just as good for half the price within 2 years, which is completely different than say CPUs where Intel's lucky to squeeze maybe a 10% performance boost in their next generation of hardware (for the same price). The best example in recent memory is the Titan X being completely destroyed by the GTX 1080Ti that offered nearly identical performance for half the cost.

For purely 1080p 60 FPS gaming I'd even say a GTX 1060 is fine, or AMD's equivalent RX 580 which would offer a better price/performance ratio. If you don't care about the price difference and just want to ensure you don't have to buy a new GPU for a number of years, then maybe a 1070 or 1080 might be worth it to you for future-proofing. AMD's Vega still isn't out afaik so there's no current comparables on AMD's side to either of those.

For reference I use an RX 480 on a 1080p 144Hz Freesync monitor and I'm happy with its performance. The new Doom fluctuates around 100FPS at all times on absolute max settings. An RX 580 or a GTX 1060 should be perfectly fine for 1080p 60 FPS.


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 Post subject: Re: PC Advice
PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2017 10:03 pm 


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we're talking something like $300 for a 1TB SSD - on a $2000 computer build. I wouldn't go for an internal mechanical drive at all these days.

Especially if you go for a NVMe boot drive which takes your reads from 550MB/s to 2GB+/s, a secondary SATA SSD is the only choice. You'll never want to go from a NVMe SSD to a mechanical HDD.

We're not exactly talking about a budget PC build here, are we ?


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 Post subject: Re: PC Advice
PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2017 10:39 pm 


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The poor guy's asking if this $2000 purchase will get him PS4 quality at 60 FPS though. I feel like the only responsible thing to do if that's what he wants is say that you don't have to go all-out in every single aspect. His build's already $1,000+ excessive if that's what he wants.


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 Post subject: Re: PC Advice
PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2017 10:49 pm 


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Mechanical hard disks are pretty much relegated to bulk storage and budget machines now, and 256GB in a $2000 desktop is tiny. GPU is also still more important than CPU for modern games, and games don't currently get any real benefit from going beyond four cores: higher clockspeeds outweigh higher core counts for framerates.

The 1060 and 1070 are both great values, but even at 1440p you're going to be limited to medium or medium-high graphics settings if you want good framerates: forget about high or ultra. I've got a 970 (which would be equivalent to a 1060) and games like Prey took a lot of tweaking to find a good balance between visuals and performance.

If you're looking at a $2000 build, the 1060 (~$230) doesn't really make sense. The 1070 (~$440) or 1080 (~$550) start to make a lot more sense. As you can see from this benchmark, the 1060 struggles to deliver 60FPS at the highest quality settings, while the 1080 doesn't have that issue:

http://www.anandtech.com/bench/product/1771?vs=1714

The 1080 Ti offers a performance improvement that is largely equivalent to its increase in price, but it might be overkill for a $2000 build.


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 Post subject: Re: PC Advice
PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2017 11:40 pm 


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bobrocks95 wrote:
The poor guy's asking if this $2000 purchase will get him PS4 quality at 60 FPS though. I feel like the only responsible thing to do if that's what he wants is say that you don't have to go all-out in every single aspect. His build's already $1,000+ excessive if that's what he wants.


:lol:

That's kinda what I want to hear.
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 Post subject: Re: PC Advice
PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 12:09 am 


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You do you, I just want to make sure you aren't talked into buying more than you really want. People often get over-eager when people ask for parts suggestions.


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 Post subject: Re: PC Advice
PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 12:44 am 



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Fudoh wrote:
we're talking something like $300 for a 1TB SSD - on a $2000 computer build. I wouldn't go for an internal mechanical drive at all these days.

Especially if you go for a NVMe boot drive which takes your reads from 550MB/s to 2GB+/s, a secondary SATA SSD is the only choice. You'll never want to go from a NVMe SSD to a mechanical HDD.

We're not exactly talking about a budget PC build here, are we ?

I'd say storage requirements depend on what someone actually needs, regardless of build. NVMe versus a SATA SSD is also pretty pointless for normal use unless someone is extremely impatient.


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 Post subject: Re: PC Advice
PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 2:59 am 



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You can do this on far less than 2000$. (Especially if you build it yourself)
I built my brother's friend a 1300$ system with an OC'd 6600k earlier this year with a 1060 (Which is more equivalent to a 980 than a 970 btw.)


As long as you don't plan on using emulators and stuff that is heavily reliant on single thread performance.

A Ryzen 5 1600x paired with a 1070 or 1080 would be your best bet for having some room for the future. Depending on what you want out of a game. If you are just going to play at 1080p60 and dont' care about things like Anti Aliasing and maxing out the settings far beyond console equivalent. (Which requires a significant amount of heft above matching console.)
A 1070 should be able to hold up well if you overclock it and OC the 1600x as well (to 4Ghz. 3.8 more likely if you save the extra 30$ for the 1600 non x).

More and more games are heading for multithreading, and the Ryzen has exceptional value in that regard for the price considering the closest you can get comparable new from Intel is just a tad more expensive with only 4 cores/4 threads.

If you really want to spend more, I would keep the Ryzen 5 and invest in a 1080 or 1080 Ti. You have the huge backlog of compatible games from the last 15 years or so that will run perfectly (ST Performance of R5 is more than competent for that)and new games will be a breeze.

I've got a 7+ year old i7 950 @4Ghz paired with a GTX 980 and it still holds up well, even in some CPU limited scenarios. (And the Ryzen 5 is no doubt much better, even if the ST performance isn't a huge leap ahead ).


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 Post subject: Re: PC Advice
PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 4:13 am 


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i9-7980 XE, just $2,000

buy the other components later, with that cpu you're safe for a decade :p

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 Post subject: Re: PC Advice
PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 7:41 am 



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I would never play a video game from a mechanical HDD. Modern games are often up to 50GB in size, a Windows install can be upwards of 50GB in size with all features enabled. With a 256GB SSD you're going to run out of space really fast, unless you remove everything you're not playing at the moment (which is fine if you have a really fast internet connection with no caps, otherwise not so much).

It would of course be easy to add or replace a drive, but this is one of the many money wastes with getting prebuilt PCs (a 500 GB drive is cheaper than 2x256GB drives).

I would go with the cheaper of the two PCs you linked. The CPU is worse but it should still last you through the lifetime of the GPU and eventually the next GPU you'll upgrade to. A GTX 1070 should be enough for now and by saving 160$ over the more expensive computer you can afford to upgrade GPU again much sooner (and GPUs are getting better all the time).

Unless I'm missing something CPU and GPU is the only difference in the linked computers?


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 Post subject: Re: PC Advice
PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 11:12 am 



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GFX:
1070 - nice but not totally silly price ... imho this is an easy upgrade later down the line, so personally I'd go for 1060 6gb ... but a 1070 is probably what you want for 60-fps guaranteed (at what is usually in fact just above ps4 levels).

CPU:
Ryzen is definitely cost/performance best deal around for gaming; 1600 is great, there's obviously a price but the 1800 seems particularly well placed for a bit more cash. I'd tend to spend more on cpu for price difference than gfx card if looking to longevity since that tends to dictate specifics on motherboard+ram+hassle. But obviously don't go mad on either unless you don't really care for cash. Whilst you could survive on a 4 core for quite some time I'd tend to look at 6 cores (or more) myself if looking at longevity, games these days will take advantage of it.

Motherboard:
Whatever. Don't worry about it - it's up to the builder to get something that works. Unless you need some crazy amount of ports to fiddle with vr ... doesn't sound like you though?

RAM:
16gb... should see you safe for games for a while. Don't worry about brands or super fast speeds, but worth asking if you get a smaller company to put this together, otherwise can probably just trust the builder. Although fastest in your price bracket is a nice detail to check if you can be arsed. Is a fairly easy upgrade later down the line.

Hard drives:
You can juggle content between drives with the help of a couple of programs. 256 ssd with windows on it is probably the minimum as long as you don't mind transferring. Personally these days I'd go for a 500gb. 1tb will save you if you can't be arsed to juggle content.

PS4 type AAA games tend to weigh install at 40gb-60gb, some more some less. Windows is like ... 90gb? ... How many of these do you like to have good to go? I presume you don't have 100s of programs you'd want to install as well?

A 4tb 7200 rpm secondary hardrive would be great, you could probably get away with 2tb 7200 - download your stuff/save archives here, transfer to your ssd when you want to play them. If you like to edit+save videos you'll probably edge towards 4tb end. Again just simply depends on how much stuff you imagine collecting. You'll be totally fine to play most stuff off this as well... just the ssd will be better - especially for open world type games or those with longer loads.

The little extras:
I can't recommend this enough: try and check out on a video/review whatever you get.
Number one additional concern for me is noise. Dell workstations are excellent. Can't comment on alienware, perhaps someone else can advise - but something worth bearing in mind if this is something that concerns you. (Another plus of the ssd if you are super sensitive to this when immersed, and if you imagine box maybe sitting on the desk next to you).

Depending on feedback you might find a better builder than alienware, but of course imagine they'll be pretty easy to simply return to if there is an off chance you decide something was not for you.

No specific idea about the well thought of builders but here's maybe a USA friendly list of some of the bigger ones:
http://www.pcgamer.com/nine-custom-pc-b ... best-deal/


... Again so much of this is subjective: a lot will focus on getting the best deal for yourself. Although it can seem a bit over the top some of these are now surface level quesitons you'd ask if considering fat ps4 vs slim vs pro etc...

Particularly f you're playing on a desk; factor in a nice desk chair if you don't already have one - best investment ever fck all this other shit ;)

Good luck sir!


Last edited by gray117 on Tue Aug 15, 2017 12:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: PC Advice
PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 12:06 pm 


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What type of SSD would be used to upgrade this?

I'm getting a 2.5 for the PS4. What do these PC's use?
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 Post subject: Re: PC Advice
PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 1:44 pm 


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SATA SSDs have the same form factor.

NVMe SSDs come as m2 sticks, but not all main boards support this.


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 Post subject: Re: PC Advice
PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 6:33 am 


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Fudoh wrote:
SATA SSDs have the same form factor.

NVMe SSDs come as m2 sticks, but not all main boards support this.


So the same kind as the ones you replace the PS4s with?
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 Post subject: Re: PC Advice
PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 9:36 pm 


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Could someone recommend an SSD for this specific computer (Aurora R6)? 1 or 2 TB would be good.

Also, can I migrate the contents of my current SSD to the new one? I'm guessing I would need another piece of hardware for that.
I would like to just put everything from that SSD to this one, and not go through a new Windows install. I'm not even sure how I'd go about doing that.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

EDIT: Would I have to do a back up on an external HDD, and then install it, when I get the new SSD in?
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 Post subject: Re: PC Advice
PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 9:39 pm 


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Quote:
I would like to just put everything from that SSD to this one, and not go through a new Windows install. I'm not even sure how I'd go about doing that.

Samsung (and likely most other manufacturers) offer a migration tool for download which easily allows you to clone your existing drive to a new one.

You probably can attach both SSDs internally and just swap the boot order in the BIOS. And if that's not possible then you can get a SATA to USB3 adapter for a few dollars on ebay or Amazon.


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 Post subject: Re: PC Advice
PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 11:02 am 


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Quote:
I would never play a video game from a mechanical HDD. Modern games are often up to 50GB in size, a Windows install can be upwards of 50GB in size with all features enabled. With a 256GB SSD you're going to run out of space really fast, unless you remove everything you're not playing at the moment (which is fine if you have a really fast internet connection with no caps, otherwise not so much).


I don't follow you, you've just made the case for using regular hard drives but say in the opening statement you'd never do it.

I agree with bobrocks95, mechanical drives are fine if you like to have a lot of games installed, or large ROM collections. I certainly have no complaints about loading times running all my games from a 4TB secondary mechanical hard drive, much easier than constantly deleting stuff and shuffling it around. Plus I have space for ISOs of my favourite Gamecube and PS2 games for use with their respective emulators. Horses for courses I guess.
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 Post subject: Re: PC Advice
PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 3:05 pm 



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BuckoA51 wrote:
Quote:
I would never play a video game from a mechanical HDD. Modern games are often up to 50GB in size, a Windows install can be upwards of 50GB in size with all features enabled. With a 256GB SSD you're going to run out of space really fast, unless you remove everything you're not playing at the moment (which is fine if you have a really fast internet connection with no caps, otherwise not so much).


I don't follow you, you've just made the case for using regular hard drives but say in the opening statement you'd never do it.

Uh, no? I was making the case that 256GB is too small. You would want 500GB at minimum and ideally 1TB.
BuckoA51 wrote:
I agree with bobrocks95, mechanical drives are fine if you like to have a lot of games installed, or large ROM collections. I certainly have no complaints about loading times running all my games from a 4TB secondary mechanical hard drive, much easier than constantly deleting stuff and shuffling it around. Plus I have space for ISOs of my favourite Gamecube and PS2 games for use with their respective emulators. Horses for courses I guess.

Obviously for old console games (and a lot of other purposes) mechanical drives are fine, just not for Windows games and you're likely to end up wanting more than 256GB worth of Windows games installed at the same time.

OP should eventually get mechanical HDDs for everything where that makes sense, but his first priority should be a decent sized SSD.


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 Post subject: Re: PC Advice
PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 3:42 pm 


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Still don't understand you all. Large levels in modern AAA games load in like 5 seconds from a mechanical drive. Why do you need to spend a bunch of money to make it marginally faster? You're talking like load times on a mechanical drive make you want to pull your hair out.

The only game I own that gave me an appreciable speed increase on an SSD (as in enough for me to care) is Skyrim, just because it has a loading screen every time you enter a building/cave.


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 Post subject: Re: PC Advice
PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 5:44 pm 



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bobrocks95 wrote:
Still don't understand you all. Large levels in modern AAA games load in like 5 seconds from a mechanical drive. Why do you need to spend a bunch of money to make it marginally faster? You're talking like load times on a mechanical drive make you want to pull your hair out.

Well three things.

1: There's still quite a few games with longer loading times.

2: The AAA games with 5 second loading times have those because they stream all content from storage continuously. Slow storage here might give you blurry textures or framerate drops.

3: "Why spend money to make it marginally faster" can really be said about CPU, GPU and RAM upgrades too, replace "faster" with "better" and you can say it about Motherboard, PSU, KB&M and monitors too.


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 Post subject: Re: PC Advice
PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 5:48 pm 


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bobrocks95 wrote:
Still don't understand you all. Large levels in modern AAA games load in like 5 seconds from a mechanical drive. Why do you need to spend a bunch of money to make it marginally faster? You're talking like load times on a mechanical drive make you want to pull your hair out.

The only game I own that gave me an appreciable speed increase on an SSD (as in enough for me to care) is Skyrim, just because it has a loading screen every time you enter a building/cave.


That should be true. Unfortunately, I have some shoddy ports that use the SSD and 1080 as a crutch. :(

So, I recommend having an SSD available. It doesn't have to be huge, but you probably want to put Windows and a couple games on it. Sooner or later, you'll run into a game that needs the speed (although there's no reason why).

Why do I use the PC for games that are better optimised on a console? I hate using game pads for first person 3d games. There's no substitute for a mouse. The next Metroid is the only potential console first person game on my radar.

The unfortunate reality is that many PC games are poorly optimised and we end up buying powerful hardware (like SSD's) to mask poor development.

That's the price we pay for control options, faster refresh rates, and mods. :(
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 Post subject: Re: PC Advice
PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 6:35 pm 



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ZellSF wrote:
bobrocks95 wrote:
Still don't understand you all. Large levels in modern AAA games load in like 5 seconds from a mechanical drive. Why do you need to spend a bunch of money to make it marginally faster? You're talking like load times on a mechanical drive make you want to pull your hair out.

Well three things.

1: There's still quite a few games with longer loading times.

2: The AAA games with 5 second loading times have those because they stream all content from storage continuously. Slow storage here might give you blurry textures or framerate drops.

3: "Why spend money to make it marginally faster" can really be said about CPU, GPU and RAM upgrades too, replace "faster" with "better" and you can say it about Motherboard, PSU, KB&M and monitors too.

Don't drag PSUs into this please :?. A garbage PSU runs the risk of taking itself out and has a good chance of taking out other components with it if that happens. Worst case scenario with a slower drive is only that it's slower.


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 Post subject: Re: PC Advice
PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 8:44 pm 



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My PC cost £1100 and the specs blow away the PS4.

You got to remember the PS4 is £300.
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