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 Post subject: RetroTink: High Quality 240p from Raspberry PI
PostPosted: Tue May 16, 2017 6:12 am 


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Location: Salem OR
I know emulation isn't the best solution but let's face it, some of these games are going to get tougher and tougher to retrieve and although I've sunk thousands of $$$ into trying to keep the games I love in the purist state, I do dabble into emulation now and again. Behold a new product that I purchased from www.retrotink.com called the RetroTink-C:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mfAuDyB0p_g


It is very easy to set up and you will see the results are quite good using a frame buffer of 1920 x 240. Input delay is minimal. Now Mike Chi is working on different units than can pass S-VHS, Composite, and one that does RGB over BNC connectors. For those who have the Raspberry Pi boards, I think this is a very straightforward and excellent product.
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 Post subject: Re: RetroTink: High Quality 240p from Raspberry PI
PostPosted: Tue May 16, 2017 11:45 am 


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I think this is pretty great, actually. A raspberry pi for mame is something I've wanted for a while but with their removal of analog signals it looked like it would never happen.


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 Post subject: Re: RetroTink: High Quality 240p from Raspberry PI
PostPosted: Tue May 16, 2017 11:47 am 


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That's quite cool considering its size. I presume it's running some sort of special Linux OS so which emulators can it run?


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 Post subject: Re: RetroTink: High Quality 240p from Raspberry PI
PostPosted: Tue May 16, 2017 12:25 pm 



Joined: 28 Aug 2014
Posts: 8
Sup Bahn, found your channel a couple weeks ago and am a fan of your setups! I'm dying to see a 65" OLED + OSSC in person one day lol
Thanks for sharing the retrotink stuff, it's a compelling alternative.
There's a post on the libretro forums about testing RetroArch lag vs. real hardware. He claims only about 1 PAL frame on the snes. I'm sure mileage varies and this wasn't a RasPi but interesting nonetheless.
https://forums.libretro.com/t/an-input- ... n/4407/424

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 Post subject: Re: RetroTink: High Quality 240p from Raspberry PI
PostPosted: Tue May 16, 2017 12:59 pm 


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Joined: 23 Feb 2013
Posts: 118
Location: Boston, MA, USA
I have a Pi 3b and many of the great beat-em-ups are super slow on it. I've used a pi2scart and pi2jamma and they are finicky with the signal config. It is a great solution on a budget, but I do plan to build a GroovyMame setup at some point soon.


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 Post subject: Re: RetroTink: High Quality 240p from Raspberry PI
PostPosted: Tue May 16, 2017 2:58 pm 



Joined: 02 Mar 2017
Posts: 136
Einzelherz wrote:
I think this is pretty great, actually. A raspberry pi for mame is something I've wanted for a while but with their removal of analog signals it looked like it would never happen.


Which analog signals? They've quasi-recently added 240p support (always had 480i), although both are through composite which is less than ideal... (don't know if that was what you're talking about or not ;)



noonan2678 wrote:
I have a Pi 3b and many of the great beat-em-ups are super slow on it. I've used a pi2scart and pi2jamma and they are finicky with the signal config. It is a great solution on a budget, but I do plan to build a GroovyMame setup at some point soon.


Which exact games are you playing which are slow? Which version of MAME? Which Emulator? I don't have real arcade hardware to compare them to (and it's been YEARS since I played on a real arcade cab) but every week we play games like Street Fighter 2, Marvel vs. Capcom, Final Fight, Alien vs predator, Cadillacs and Dinosaurs, D&D TOD, TMNT, etc. et.c etc. and they seem to run great (nothing 3d of course).



To the OP, the RetroTink does seem great. I have the Pi2SCART which uses pretty much the same exact pixel size cheat (there's a couple other board and cable options too), and I love it!

My only complaint is how even with the 1600px tweak, if I don't want any bit of the screen to be cut off (and don't want pixel tearing) I STILL have to adjust the H/V Size/Centering/Phase/etc. on my multiple monitors every time I want to use the Pi, then change it back (again, on every single monitor, many through the tedious hidden service menus) so my 6x video game consoles don't have part of the screen cut off. Such a pain, and a fault of the limited Pi 3 pixel clock (not these RGBs/Component outputting add-on boards). I've honestly just been dealing with the top and bottom of my MAME games being cut off (mostly on the 240px ones - 224px seems to be pretty close to my consoles) instead of dealing with service menus every time (much lesser of the two evils).


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 Post subject: Re: RetroTink: High Quality 240p from Raspberry PI
PostPosted: Tue May 16, 2017 3:56 pm 


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Location: Bedfordshire, England.
Damn the RetroTink is super expensive then?!??, may i ask why you went with that over something like the Pi2SCART adapter (http://retrorgb.com/rpi240p.html) its super cheap compared to the RetroTink?


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 Post subject: Re: RetroTink: High Quality 240p from Raspberry PI
PostPosted: Tue May 16, 2017 4:22 pm 



Joined: 02 Mar 2017
Posts: 136
lettuce wrote:
Damn the RetroTink is super expensive then?!??, may i ask why you went with that over something like the Pi2SCART adapter (http://retrorgb.com/rpi240p.html) its super cheap compared to the RetroTink?


$47 shipped for the Pi2SCART to the states. For the Pi2SCART I still need a SCART to BNC breakout cable* which is $40 shipped from WookieWin on eBay, or like $20ish + $6? shipping from that store in the United Kingdom = $113 *needs to be a special male SCART type too - or I need an adapter if I'm using a SCART to BNC cable I already have

For the RetroTink RGBs ($65 + $10? shipping) I can get by with a $10 BNC to BNC cable from Monoprice ($7 shipping?) - both of these to get the signal to my Sony PVM/BVM's = $92

...pretty close in price (hopefully I did the rough math correctly ;) Granted, if you already have the cables it can swing either way.


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 Post subject: Re: RetroTink: High Quality 240p from Raspberry PI
PostPosted: Tue May 16, 2017 8:58 pm 


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Joined: 15 Oct 2015
Posts: 70
Location: Salem OR
lettuce wrote:
Damn the RetroTink is super expensive then?!??, may i ask why you went with that over something like the Pi2SCART adapter (http://retrorgb.com/rpi240p.html) its super cheap compared to the RetroTink?

I went with the Retrotink due to higher quality DACs. Mike Chi's site can yell you more about it(8bit vs 6bit). Also as portable solution, SCART isn't common here in the US. Most CRTs made post 2000 have component input. For instance my JVC only has component, s-video and composite.

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PS2,XBOX,DC,3DO,Wii>JVC 36" I'Art CRT TV
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 Post subject: Re: RetroTink: High Quality 240p from Raspberry PI
PostPosted: Tue May 16, 2017 9:29 pm 


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Joined: 06 Oct 2015
Posts: 1817
Location: Canada
It achieves 8-bits per channel by consuming every single GPIO pin, leaving nothing for controller inputs or soft power switches, so there are sacrifices.


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 Post subject: Re: RetroTink: High Quality 240p from Raspberry PI
PostPosted: Tue May 16, 2017 9:39 pm 


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Joined: 15 Oct 2015
Posts: 70
Location: Salem OR
Yes guspaz. I had a usb hub laying around and have found that to be Good solution. Also my usb soundcard was found very easily by Lakka 2.0 giving much better audio quality at higher volumes.

The rpi3 analog audio out is utterly subpar. The usb soundcard was $5 and well worth it

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_________________
DC,Xbox,SS,GEN32XCD,SNES,N64,PS1,GC>OSSC>DENONX4300H>LG OLED65C7
PS4 Pro>Vizio D40u-D1
PS2,XBOX,DC,3DO,Wii>JVC 36" I'Art CRT TV
PS3>Onkyo636>Vizio D65U-D1
Alienware 13R3 Samsung OLED w/Nvidia GTX 1080TI


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 Post subject: Re: RetroTink: High Quality 240p from Raspberry PI
PostPosted: Sun May 21, 2017 2:34 am 



Joined: 11 Dec 2014
Posts: 271
lettuce wrote:
Damn the RetroTink is super expensive then?!??, may i ask why you went with that over something like the Pi2SCART adapter (http://retrorgb.com/rpi240p.html) its super cheap compared to the RetroTink?

expensive?? This thing is a steal at the price considering it's low volume and probably not very profitable.
For what it does too, worth every penny IMO.


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 Post subject: Re: RetroTink: High Quality 240p from Raspberry PI
PostPosted: Sat Jul 15, 2017 4:25 am 



Joined: 11 Dec 2014
Posts: 271
I don't have a Raspberry Pi, but I did eventually try the ultra wide 120hz resolution that Mike posted about on one of my 31khz VGA CRTs on Windows 7 with Retroarch.

The results were interesting, but it looked a bit too off to me. I need to test it all again and compare it to Component with the same game on my Consumer CRT. But I feel like 240p on a VGA CRT is too sharp? (I guess this is what PVM/BVMs would look like?)

Also in motion at 120hz at 1/2 sync (So effective 60hz). Vertical motion almost makes the scanlines seem like they disappear to the naked eye. But not in a video. It's weird. Horizontal scrolling doesn't have the problem. It looks fine still, but interesting. I prefer the look of 480p line doubled with inserted scanlines though.

https://abload.de/img/240pultrawide120hzvga4osa5.jpg
https://abload.de/img/480pwithinsertedscanl4vsu8.jpg

Video of 120hz VGA CRT 240p with scrolling.
http://www.mediafire.com/file/wyv43wcm9 ... ga_crt.mp4


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 Post subject: Re: RetroTink: High Quality 240p from Raspberry PI
PostPosted: Sat Jul 15, 2017 8:08 am 


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Posts: 10445
Location: Germany
Quote:
But I feel like 240p on a VGA CRT is too sharp? (I guess this is what PVM/BVMs would look like?)

yes, it looks like this on a high-TVL BVM.

Quote:
Vertical motion almost makes the scanlines seem like they disappear to the naked eye.

same thing happens on any CRT. Has something to do with your eyes' focus. On a vertical monitor setup (like in the arcade) the games are scrolling along the scanlines' orientation, so it doesn't happen there.


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 Post subject: Re: RetroTink: High Quality 240p from Raspberry PI
PostPosted: Sat Jul 15, 2017 1:47 pm 


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Joined: 09 Jul 2017
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Both of the pictures looked pretty good to me. Video seemed alright. And yeah monitors are pretty much going to be sharper which isn't for everyone.

What monitor are you using?


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 Post subject: Re: RetroTink: High Quality 240p from Raspberry PI
PostPosted: Sat Jul 15, 2017 3:42 pm 


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Joined: 27 Apr 2015
Posts: 333
Location: Bellingham, WA
Bahn Yuki wrote:
I know emulation isn't the best solution but let's face it, some of these games are going to get tougher and tougher to retrieve and although I've sunk thousands of $$$ into trying to keep the games I love in the purist state, I do dabble into emulation now and again. Behold a new product that I purchased from http://www.retrotink.com called the RetroTink-C:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mfAuDyB0p_g


It is very easy to set up and you will see the results are quite good using a frame buffer of 1920 x 240. Input delay is minimal. Now Mike Chi is working on different units than can pass S-VHS, Composite, and one that does RGB over BNC connectors. For those who have the Raspberry Pi boards, I think this is a very straightforward and excellent product.


Have you gotten a chance to test the 240p over composite feature?

I have mine coming in the mail with the headphone to rca breakout cable.

I am very curious about the composite only and it's a new feature that just came out in the latest firmware and I would love to hear someone knowledgeable break it down for me.
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 Post subject: Re: RetroTink: High Quality 240p from Raspberry PI
PostPosted: Sat Jul 15, 2017 5:15 pm 



Joined: 02 Mar 2017
Posts: 136
Hoagtech wrote:
Have you gotten a chance to test the 240p over composite feature?

I have mine coming in the mail with the headphone to rca breakout cable.

I am very curious about the composite only and it's a new feature that just came out in the latest firmware and I would love to hear someone knowledgeable break it down for me.


That 240p tweak over component has been around for maybe 4ish months now, and I just got a chance to try it myself in the last couple weeks. It's OK. On my 5-9" PVM monitors it looks GREAT (which is good because of the 8 or 9 smaller ones I have, only 2ish have RGB). But even on my 13-14" monitors I don't care for it; some artifacts remain, and what stinks is from what I can tell you can't use the 1600px tweaks when using the "sdtv_mode=16" in the config file. Can't even individually center each console you emulate with the 240p over composite...so you're kinda stuck with a crappy overall method when compared to the 1600px tweak on the Pi2Scart and RetroTink boards (and I think even the Gert VGA 666 which uses similar hdmi_timing settings). If you have nothing else to use you'll have fun with it though (I'm just kinda spoiled by the RGB output methods on my Pi's now).


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 Post subject: Re: RetroTink: High Quality 240p from Raspberry PI
PostPosted: Sat Jul 15, 2017 6:41 pm 


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Posts: 333
Location: Bellingham, WA
Dochartaigh wrote:
Hoagtech wrote:
Have you gotten a chance to test the 240p over composite feature?

I have mine coming in the mail with the headphone to rca breakout cable.

I am very curious about the composite only and it's a new feature that just came out in the latest firmware and I would love to hear someone knowledgeable break it down for me.


That 240p tweak over component has been around for maybe 4ish months now, and I just got a chance to try it myself in the last couple weeks. It's OK. On my 5-9" PVM monitors it looks GREAT (which is good because of the 8 or 9 smaller ones I have, only 2ish have RGB). But even on my 13-14" monitors I don't care for it; some artifacts remain, and what stinks is from what I can tell you can't use the 1600px tweaks when using the "sdtv_mode=16" in the config file. Can't even individually center each console you emulate with the 240p over composite...so you're kinda stuck with a crappy overall method when compared to the 1600px tweak on the Pi2Scart and RetroTink boards (and I think even the Gert VGA 666 which uses similar hdmi_timing settings). If you have nothing else to use you'll have fun with it though (I'm just kinda spoiled by the RGB output methods on my Pi's now).



I hate to pester but I would love to see a pic of composite 240p on a Sony PVM. Are the Scanlines similar to Scart>RGbs? on your 2ish ones?
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 Post subject: Re: RetroTink: High Quality 240p from Raspberry PI
PostPosted: Sat Jul 15, 2017 7:18 pm 



Joined: 02 Mar 2017
Posts: 136
Hoagtech wrote:
I hate to pester but I would love to see a pic of composite 240p on a Sony PVM. Are the Scanlines similar to Scart>RGbs? on your 2ish ones?


I'll have to see what I can do - only fair comparison would be the Pi 3 over composite vs. Pi 3 over an RGBs hat (which I currently have dismantled now). Otherwise it would be like a SNES game on the Pi vs. a real SNES console over RGB which I don't know how 1:1 comparison that would be.


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 Post subject: Re: RetroTink: High Quality 240p from Raspberry PI
PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 3:12 am 


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Location: Bellingham, WA
Dochartaigh wrote:
Hoagtech wrote:
I hate to pester but I would love to see a pic of composite 240p on a Sony PVM. Are the Scanlines similar to Scart>RGbs? on your 2ish ones?


I'll have to see what I can do - only fair comparison would be the Pi 3 over composite vs. Pi 3 over an RGBs hat (which I currently have dismantled now). Otherwise it would be like a SNES game on the Pi vs. a real SNES console over RGB which I don't know how 1:1 comparison that would be.


The SNES RGB vs 240p composite Pi would be the winner.
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