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 Post subject: Re: 90's Era PC to HDMI
PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 7:35 am 



Joined: 05 Mar 2017
Posts: 22
Bahn Yuki wrote:
Out of curiosity what hdmi input are you guys using on your vizios? Hdmi 1-4 is Lot more friendly with pc resolutions. Worth a shot...


I gave it a try tonight. I actually saw the opposite behavior. I'm not getting a signal on HDMI 4 whereas things work on HDMI 5. I double-checked to be sure. I'm not sure why.


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 Post subject: Re: 90's Era PC to HDMI
PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 7:48 am 



Joined: 05 Mar 2017
Posts: 22
orange808 wrote:
Use a scaler that was designed to handle computer graphics. It's cheaper and easier.

Buy a Kramer vp-719ds and a cheap Chinese VGA to HDMI box. It outputs 720p right out of the box and that's fine. It does custom outputs and it has the raw power to do 1080p. Just key in the timings as a custom output resolution.


I was able to pick one up for $32. I'm connecting it through the Sewell Manta I referenced earlier and the image is still blurry. I've ordered a $6 converter to see if that helps. I think part of the problem is that I've been unable to get the Kramer to output 720p. The option is grayed out on the 719DS and according to the manual is only available on the 723DS and 724DS.

I assume you're referring to the "User Defined Resolutions" to customize things? Any tips on values you recommend?

Thanks again for your help.


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 Post subject: Re: 90's Era PC to HDMI
PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 8:53 am 


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Joined: 20 Aug 2016
Posts: 431
strygo wrote:
orange808 wrote:
Use a scaler that was designed to handle computer graphics. It's cheaper and easier.

Buy a Kramer vp-719ds and a cheap Chinese VGA to HDMI box. It outputs 720p right out of the box and that's fine. It does custom outputs and it has the raw power to do 1080p. Just key in the timings as a custom output resolution.


I was able to pick one up for $32. I'm connecting it through the Sewell Manta I referenced earlier and the image is still blurry. I've ordered a $6 converter to see if that helps. I think part of the problem is that I've been unable to get the Kramer to output 720p. The option is grayed out on the 719DS and according to the manual is only available on the 723DS and 724DS.

I assume you're referring to the "User Defined Resolutions" to customize things? Any tips on values you recommend?

Thanks again for your help.


Select 1280x720. If you want to use DTV timings for 720p or 1080p, you can google them. You shouldn't need to, your display should handle 1280x720 as 720p.

If you are in Windows running at 1024x768 (the defacto standard resolution for desktop and gaming on Windows 98), you might want to use 1366x768. This should also be recognized as a "720p" input by your display.

Adjust the sharpness on the scaler. You will want to increase it.

Also, you may need to adjust your display.

If your display normally scales low resolution signals poorly, you can try adding 1080p or 1200p as custom resolutions.
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Last edited by orange808 on Sun May 21, 2017 7:02 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: 90's Era PC to HDMI
PostPosted: Sat May 20, 2017 3:43 pm 



Joined: 05 Mar 2017
Posts: 22
Let me first say - thank you for all the info and pointers. It is very much appreciated.

I've had a chance to do some more testing. The 719DS is definitely more robust than the Manta alone, but I do think the Manta may generally be interfering with things. For example, I can't test the 1280x768 resolution without the Manta forcing a resolution of 720p or 1080p. I'll know more once the cheap converter arrives. I also have the Gefen scaler on the way so I'll be able to do a side-by-side comparison.

I'm having a bear of a time with the user defined resolution settings. I've been unable to configure any value that is displayed. I'm likely being obtuse, but when I try to enter the various values, nothing works. The refresh rate may be the problem, but I don't have a baseline to start from. According to the manual, a newer version of the firmware has a way to start from a pre-defined one.


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 Post subject: Re: 90's Era PC to HDMI
PostPosted: Sat May 20, 2017 5:13 pm 


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Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 10368
Location: Germany
Quote:
I also have the Gefen scaler on the way

did you order the DVI or HDMI one ? If you got the DVI one, I would use a DVI to HDMI cable (if you need HDMI) instead of using a DVI to HDMI adapter plus HDMI/HDMI cable. The later combination gave me some trouble on the DVI Gefen.

Definitely let me know how that comparison turns out! Thanks.


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 Post subject: Re: 90's Era PC to HDMI
PostPosted: Sat May 20, 2017 5:54 pm 



Joined: 05 Mar 2017
Posts: 22
Fudoh wrote:
did you order the DVI or HDMI one ? If you got the DVI one, I would use a DVI to HDMI cable (if you need HDMI) instead of using a DVI to HDMI adapter plus HDMI/HDMI cable. The later combination gave me some trouble on the DVI Gefen.


I went with the DVI one. It was more readily available. I got a small passive adapter. Thanks for the heads up - if it doesn't work, I'll go the route you suggest.


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 Post subject: Re: 90's Era PC to HDMI
PostPosted: Sat May 20, 2017 6:41 pm 


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Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 10368
Location: Germany
Quote:
I got a small passive adapter. Thanks for the heads up - if it doesn't work, I'll go the route you suggest.

the problem I had with using an adapter (DVI to HDMI) was that 1080p gave me horizontal sparkles throughout the picture, while 720p and VESA resolutions were fine. Definitely a cable bandwith issue somehow amplified by the adapter.


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 Post subject: Re: 90's Era PC to HDMI
PostPosted: Sat May 20, 2017 11:54 pm 



Joined: 18 Sep 2014
Posts: 77
If you have a spare PCI slot could you use a graphics card with DVI out, like a Radeon 9250? It has Win 98 drivers.
It would mean less cabling at least, and they are available for not much cash.


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 Post subject: Re: 90's Era PC to HDMI
PostPosted: Sun May 21, 2017 1:02 am 



Joined: 05 Mar 2017
Posts: 22
I was actually looking at the GeForce FX 5200 for this precise purpose. It has DVI-I output.

Apart from the cabling benefits you mention, does this give me any other or better options for upscaling apart from the Gefen or Kramer?


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 Post subject: Re: 90's Era PC to HDMI
PostPosted: Sun May 21, 2017 7:40 am 



Joined: 18 Sep 2014
Posts: 77
Modern driver software can scale an image before output to match the native resolution of the monitor but you'd have to check the documentation for specific driver suite of the card you're looking at to see if the Win98 compatible drivers had this feature. It wouldn't work in pure dos mode I'm sure.
You still need your TV/monitor to accept the refresh rate.


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 Post subject: Re: 90's Era PC to HDMI
PostPosted: Sun May 21, 2017 3:06 pm 


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Joined: 20 Aug 2016
Posts: 431
RocketBelt wrote:
Modern driver software can scale an image before output to match the native resolution of the monitor but you'd have to check the documentation for specific driver suite of the card you're looking at to see if the Win98 compatible drivers had this feature. It wouldn't work in pure dos mode I'm sure.
You still need your TV/monitor to accept the refresh rate.


Which W98 cards support gpu scaling and what kind of quality can a person expect?
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 Post subject: Re: 90's Era PC to HDMI
PostPosted: Sun May 21, 2017 8:55 pm 



Joined: 18 Sep 2014
Posts: 77
I don't know that any do. You'd have to check the driver documentation.
ATI PCI or AGP cards with DVI for Win 98 will be Catalyst 6.2
The only benefit for sure is that you wouldn't need a vgi to hdmi converter in the chain.


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