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 Post subject: Wavebeam NES Palette for NESRGB, NT Mini, Emulators, etc
PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 6:53 am 


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Joined: 21 Jul 2015
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FBX NTSC Hardware, FCEUX, Nestopia YUV, Wavebeam


Hello - this is a thread for updates on the Wavebeam NES palette, an RGB palette geared towards looking great on CRTs with vibrant nostalgic colors.
It is now available as .pal or NESRGB firmware - please visit this page to learn more about it, view comparisons, and download.

8/10/17 -- Updated the .pal and NESRGB Firmwares - please redownload if you got them before this date.


Last edited by nakedarthur on Thu Aug 10, 2017 5:48 pm, edited 54 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Wavebeam NES Palette for Emulators and NESRGB
PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 7:19 am 


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Great to see a separate thread was created for this.
Thx again for your Palette Combination!


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 Post subject: Re: Wavebeam NES Palette for Emulators and NESRGB
PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 5:50 pm 


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xadox wrote:
Great to see a separate thread was created for this.
Thx again for your Palette Combination!

My pleasure!


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 Post subject: Re: Wavebeam NES Palette for Emulators and NESRGB
PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 12:36 am 


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Just uploaded a new .pal for Wavebeam2. The last time I played on CRT I noticed a few of the blues and reds really popping out in a bad way, so I've been trying to tame them a bit. Brightness inconsistencies seem to be a lot more noticeable on CRT. Here's a comparison:

Wavebeam / Wavebeam2
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 Post subject: Re: Wavebeam NES Palette for Emulators and NESRGB
PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 7:24 pm 


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Just uploaded another update for Wavebeam2. I was able to check those red and blue changes on the CRT today and overall they looked really good, but I made a couple more tweaks since some were still a little off (namely the blue used for UI and water in Zelda and your pants in Contra was still too bright). I was erring on the side of too bright when I started on the palette since I didn't want it to feel dull, so now it's just finding the sweet spots.


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 Post subject: Re: Wavebeam NES Palette for Emulators and NESRGB
PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2017 5:42 am 


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And once again! That one blue has been very tricky. Every palette does something a little different with it, but I think I got it pretty close now. It doesn't jump out on CRT anymore at least.

Wavebeam / Wavebeam2 / NES Classic
Image

And here's a comparison between Wavebeam and Wavebeam2 so far:

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 Post subject: Re: Wavebeam NES Palette for Emulators and NESRGB
PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2017 8:05 am 


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You're well on your way to obsessing over and over and over, only to have to start over again. :-P
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NES NTSC Palettes: http://www.firebrandx.com/nespalette.html

SNES Serial DB: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1HYLy_TTDop_FzuX6qnxuQI43upg4raXfno582taO744/pubhtml


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 Post subject: Re: Wavebeam NES Palette for Emulators and NESRGB
PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2017 3:33 pm 


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Man please don't say that, this has been way too much work already. I must believe there's an end :D


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 Post subject: Re: Wavebeam NES Palette for Emulators and NESRGB
PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2017 4:07 pm 



Joined: 23 Jul 2014
Posts: 28
nakedarthur wrote:
Man please don't say that, this has been way too much work already. I must believe there's an end :D



ha, never! every time I play on an emulator I end up changing the palette depending on what feels right. sometimes it's the sony, sometimes firebrands, PC10 and now yours is in the mix. but it's good having the options, it's like playing on an old school crt tv just adjusted the hue and saturation depending on what felt right.


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 Post subject: Re: Wavebeam NES CRT Palette for NESRGB, Analogue NT, etc
PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 11:34 pm 


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Hope this gets added to the RetroUSB AVS


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 Post subject: Re: Wavebeam NES CRT Palette for NESRGB, Analogue NT, etc
PostPosted: Sun Apr 30, 2017 12:20 am 


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Damn, I thought you could load your own palettes on the AVS for some reason. I can try hitting them up when I finally finish it.

Speaking of which, I've been thinking about my exit strategy since I don't want to spend the rest of my life endlessly tweaking it. I've been making steady progress, but diminishing returns are quickly approaching. So I think I'm just going to give myself a couple weeks to finish it up, then double check everything with a PVM before calling it complete. Finishing before summer sounds like a good plan, and I think a month should be more than enough time (given real life doesn't get too hectic).


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 Post subject: Re: Wavebeam NES CRT Palette for NESRGB, Analogue NT, etc
PostPosted: Sun Apr 30, 2017 6:56 am 



Joined: 04 Apr 2014
Posts: 361
This thread is glorious. I want to try this out.


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 Post subject: Re: Wavebeam NES CRT Palette for NESRGB, Analogue NT, etc
PostPosted: Sun Apr 30, 2017 7:20 am 


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Yes thanks for bringing this and the Sony palette to the NES RGB. I'm looking forward to trying both.


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 Post subject: Re: Wavebeam NES CRT Palette for NESRGB, Analogue NT, etc
PostPosted: Sun Apr 30, 2017 7:50 am 


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Thanks guys, really glad to hear it's useful for others.

I just updated Wavebeam2 link above with a few more tweaks. It's crazy how close it is to my memory now, it's like walking down nostalgia lane :D Here's a few pics of latest:

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 Post subject: Re: Wavebeam NES CRT Palette for NESRGB, Analogue NT, etc
PostPosted: Sun Apr 30, 2017 11:20 am 


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One compromise I noticed you're having to make is darkening colors that shouldn't be dark in order to show normally impossible hues (like the SMB sky for example). The 3rd row should be consistent in brightness/saturation all the way across, but you're finding out this is impossible.

Also the brightest color of your brown/red swatch is abnormally muted. Did you base it off the NES Classic palette? Because that's the only other palette I've seen with it muted like that. Either that or the yellow you have next to it is abnormally bright.

Edit: And good lord is your red REALLY red! I honestly remember it being more orange-influenced.
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Framemeister profiles: http://www.firebrandx.com/framemeisterprofiles.html

NES NTSC Palettes: http://www.firebrandx.com/nespalette.html

SNES Serial DB: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1HYLy_TTDop_FzuX6qnxuQI43upg4raXfno582taO744/pubhtml


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 Post subject: Re: Wavebeam NES CRT Palette for NESRGB, Analogue NT, etc
PostPosted: Sun Apr 30, 2017 6:39 pm 


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This is what it's gonna look like when your done tweaking it

Image
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 Post subject: Re: Wavebeam NES CRT Palette for NESRGB, Analogue NT, etc
PostPosted: Sun Apr 30, 2017 7:11 pm 


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Respectfully, it's only his interpretation, and hes made zero claims for accuracy. If someone wanted something closer to whatever "accurate" may be, we thankfully have your palettes. The more the merrier.

FBX wrote:
One compromise I noticed you're having to make is darkening colors that shouldn't be dark in order to show normally impossible hues (like the SMB sky for example). The 3rd row should be consistent in brightness/saturation all the way across, but you're finding out this is impossible.

Also the brightest color of your brown/red swatch is abnormally muted. Did you base it off the NES Classic palette? Because that's the only other palette I've seen with it muted like that. Either that or the yellow you have next to it is abnormally bright.

Edit: And good lord is your red REALLY red! I honestly remember it being more orange-influenced.


Last edited by tjstogy on Mon May 01, 2017 3:21 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Wavebeam NES CRT Palette for NESRGB, Analogue NT, etc
PostPosted: Sun Apr 30, 2017 8:45 pm 


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Hoagtech, you don't know just how timely your joke was :P

tjstogy - it's cool, I don't think its above criticism just because it's a subjective palette. He had some good points.

FBX - Thanks for the feedback. I decided to try desaturating the palette so I could see brightness alone and it helped a lot to see inconsistencies. I made a few tweaks so far, I'll keep studying it. I think I got the orange a little better, didn't realize how muted it was.

Wavebeam2 (top) / Composite Direct (bottom)
Image

There's a new .pal above for Wavebeam2, here's with latest tweaks.
Image


Last edited by nakedarthur on Mon May 01, 2017 3:40 am, edited 6 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Wavebeam NES CRT Palette for NESRGB, Analogue NT, etc
PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2017 1:39 am 



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I think they all look great.


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 Post subject: Re: Wavebeam NES CRT Palette for NESRGB, Analogue NT, etc
PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2017 4:20 am 


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Hoagtech wrote:
This is what it's gonna look like when your done tweaking it

Image

The gray looks a little off and could use some tweaking.
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 Post subject: Re: Wavebeam NES CRT Palette for NESRGB, Analogue NT, etc
PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2017 1:07 pm 


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I'm glad we have these threads to remind me that my OCD isn't all that bad.


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 Post subject: Re: Wavebeam NES CRT Palette for NESRGB, Analogue NT, etc
PostPosted: Tue May 02, 2017 5:53 pm 


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Uploaded a new .pal above for Wavebeam2. I think it's nearly done at this point, I'm just going to do final checks on a couple CRTs and then start getting things together for release (updated screenshot comparisons, NESRGB, AVS, etc.). The desaturation trick saved a ton of time getting the brightness values evened out between colors. And thanks again to FBX for the great feedback.

Here's an animated comparison between Wavebeam and Wavebeam2 (2 has the darker colors on top row)
Image


Last edited by nakedarthur on Wed May 03, 2017 4:31 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Wavebeam NES CRT Palette for NESRGB, Analogue NT, etc
PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2017 1:20 am 



Joined: 23 Jul 2014
Posts: 28
can you check the greenish brown next to the orange on the third row? I seem to remember that being more of a yellow in SMB3 world 2


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 Post subject: Re: Wavebeam NES CRT Palette for NESRGB, Analogue NT, etc
PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2017 1:47 am 


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tacoboy42 wrote:
can you check the greenish brown next to the orange on the third row? I seem to remember that being more of a yellow in SMB3 world 2

It's a strange color for sure. I had it as a more golden color before since it looks a little more pleasing to the eye, but I think the mustard is actually accurate. There was a couple spots where it just didn't look right without the mustard, namely the first stage of Bionic Commando, and also World 2 of SMB2 where you dig down in the sand. I'll take another look at it on the CRT though when I test.

Edit: Looks like I made a mistake editing last night and that yellow was a little darker than it was supposed to be. I just uploaded a new .pal above, please give it a shot.


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 Post subject: Re: Wavebeam NES CRT Palette for NESRGB, Analogue NT, etc
PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2017 8:22 am 



Joined: 27 Nov 2014
Posts: 125
Location: Hellhole
nakedarthur wrote:
Uploaded a new .pal above for Wavebeam2. I think it's nearly done at this point, I'm just going to do final checks on a couple CRTs and then start getting things together for release (updated screenshot comparisons, NESRGB, AVS, etc.). The desaturation trick saved a ton of time getting the brightness values evened out between colors. And thanks again to FBX for the great feedback.

Here's an animated comparison between Wavebeam and Wavebeam2 (2 has the darker colors on top row)
Image

Could you ask Tim to put the NTSC hardware palette on the third position? :mrgreen:


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 Post subject: Re: Wavebeam NES CRT Palette for NESRGB, Analogue NT, etc
PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2017 10:16 am 


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You could also just resolder your wires :)


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 Post subject: Re: Wavebeam NES CRT Palette for NESRGB, Analogue NT, etc
PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2017 3:03 pm 


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Hey don't worry about, nakedarthur. I was having fun being on the other side of that fence for a change. You got a little taste of what it's like trying to nail the ultimate palette ;-)

I do think your palette looks quite good on digital displays, and definitely has its place among the choices people should have.
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NES NTSC Palettes: http://www.firebrandx.com/nespalette.html

SNES Serial DB: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1HYLy_TTDop_FzuX6qnxuQI43upg4raXfno582taO744/pubhtml


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 Post subject: Re: Wavebeam NES CRT Palette for NESRGB, Analogue NT, etc
PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2017 4:17 pm 


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Ripthorn wrote:
Could you ask Tim to put the NTSC hardware palette on the third position? :mrgreen:


Do you not have a switch? When I talk to Tim again for the next version I can bring it up. Don't want to bother him too much :D

FBX wrote:
Hey don't worry about, nakedarthur. I was having fun being on the other side of that fence for a change. You got a little taste of what it's like trying to nail the ultimate palette ;-)

I do think your palette looks quite good on digital displays, and definitely has its place among the choices people should have.


Thanks man, means a lot! Hey I don't mind as long as it's good feedback :P


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 Post subject: Re: Wavebeam NES CRT Palette for NESRGB, Analogue NT, etc
PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2017 9:59 pm 


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Just uploaded a new .pal. Not looking like I'll have time to start CRT testing this week, but I've been making some tweaks here and there. I made a lot of dumb mistakes when I first started, so I've been trying to fix some of those. One was the green used for Link, the green channel was overboosted and giving a neon appearance. Here's that same Zelda scene above with latest balancing:

Wavebeam - Wavebeam2 - NES Classic
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 Post subject: Re: Wavebeam NES CRT Palette for NESRGB, Analogue NT, etc
PostPosted: Thu May 04, 2017 9:37 pm 


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Another .pal update posted above. A few more small tweaks, namely to the hue of the purples since they were coming across way too blue.

Wavebeam - Wavebeam2 - NES Classic
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