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 Post subject: PS2 RGsB Setup
PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 9:41 pm 



Joined: 20 Feb 2017
Posts: 12
I am thinking about ditching Component for PS2 and switching to Sync on Green BNC cables. However, I've researched it and found that I would need a lot of extra stuff to get it working. I was just wondering if I could simplify the process a bit.

Where can I get an RGsB SCART cable? Are there BNC versions available as well/instead? Do I need another Extron unit?


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 Post subject: Re: PS2 RGsB Setup
PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 10:06 pm 


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clutchins wrote:
I am thinking about ditching Component for PS2 and switching to Sync on Green BNC cables. However, I've researched it and found that I would need a lot of extra stuff to get it working. I was just wondering if I could simplify the process a bit.

Where can I get an RGsB SCART cable? Are there BNC versions available as well/instead? Do I need another Extron unit?

Anyone correct me if I'm wrong but : RGsB passes through any RGB SCART cable, I think. The potential problem will be with your display. And maybe with your switcher.

What kind of display are you using?
Not all display can handle SoG

What kind of switcher/converters do you have in your chain?
Some won't output SoG. But the Extron matrixes, for example, certainly will.


You gotta provide us with more info on your setup :D


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 Post subject: Re: PS2 RGsB Setup
PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 10:15 pm 


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Uh, you can just use component cables for sync on green. Just use RCA>BNC adapters on the end of the component cable, and it passes sync on green just fine.


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 Post subject: Re: PS2 RGsB Setup
PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 12:31 am 



Joined: 15 Aug 2015
Posts: 73
BazookaBen wrote:
Uh, you can just use component cables for sync on green. Just use RCA>BNC adapters on the end of the component cable, and it passes sync on green just fine.


Because the component video for PS2 is awful. Sony's video encoder wasn't a very good one. If you use RGsB, you avoid the component video altogether and get a superior RGB image. I've tried using RGsB through the OSSC. It looks better than through component. Is it an enormous difference? Not to most people. If you're a big PS2 fan, you'll notice the difference.


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 Post subject: Re: PS2 RGsB Setup
PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 1:52 am 


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I wouldn't say it's awful. It just has a lot of noise in the signal. RGB is the way to go though if your display supports RGsB.
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 Post subject: Re: PS2 RGsB Setup
PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 1:56 am 


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Location: Kentucky
If I remember what Fudoh has said correctly, you can pass an RGsB signal through the component cables and gain the benefits as well. Or maybe if you have a set with a composite plug on it as well, RGBV.


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 Post subject: Re: PS2 RGsB Setup
PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 3:33 am 



Joined: 04 Jul 2010
Posts: 146
Mind if I add this to the topic?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DB9z72atYzA

I'm wondering if it will work on making 240p/480i visible instead of doing guesswork on trying to get 480p enabled.
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Last edited by headlesshobbs on Thu Apr 20, 2017 5:02 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: PS2 RGsB Setup
PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 3:50 am 


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lechu wrote:
Because the component video for PS2 is awful. Sony's video encoder wasn't a very good one. If you use RGsB, you avoid the component video altogether and get a superior RGB image. I've tried using RGsB through the OSSC. It looks better than through component. Is it an enormous difference? Not to most people. If you're a big PS2 fan, you'll notice the difference.


No, you misunderstood me. You can use component cables for RGsB. Once you set your PS2 (or GS Mode Selector) to RGB, it will send an RGB signal over the component cables. It will only work for 480p, which is sync on green. For 480i, you will also need the composite video plug for sync.

So if you plan on only playing in 480p, standard component cables are all you need. If you want 480i compatibility too, you'll need component video cables that also have the composite video plug for sync. Then you just use RCA>BNC adapters.


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 Post subject: Re: PS2 RGsB Setup
PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 3:55 am 



Joined: 20 Feb 2017
Posts: 12
So I have a BVM with an Extron 6x1 BNC switchbox. I also have some extra BNC to RCA converters for my Component consoles. So if I just use the PS2 Component cables in that, will I be able to take advantage of SoG?

Also will it just be limited to 480p or 480i and 240p as well?

I was thinking about getting a Sync on Luma cable and just using that for Sync on Green and probably throw in a SCART to BNC cable with a Sync Stripper.


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 Post subject: Re: PS2 RGsB Setup
PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 4:02 am 


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480p is sync on green, so normal component cables are fine. 480i is separate sync, so you'll need some third party component cables that also have the composite video plug.

Or you can spend more money for a scart lead and BNC breakout.

Not sure if a sync stripper would be necessary, I don't need them for my PVM's.


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 Post subject: Re: PS2 RGsB Setup
PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 1:14 pm 



Joined: 05 Dec 2012
Posts: 343
clutchins wrote:
I was thinking about getting a Sync on Luma cable and just using that for Sync on Green and probably throw in a SCART to BNC cable with a Sync Stripper.

That's probably the best solution at the moment.

People seem to get so confused about PS2 & RGsB. I'm always trying to find a way to make it clearer to understand on my page, but I guess I'm failing...


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 Post subject: Re: PS2 RGsB Setup
PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 5:07 pm 


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In my experience scart cables do not have the necessary shielding to send 480p signals. You will get ringing noise. It's certainly possible with high quality cables, but keep this in mind.


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 Post subject: Re: PS2 RGsB Setup
PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 8:54 pm 



Joined: 20 Feb 2017
Posts: 12
antron wrote:
In my experience scart cables do not have the necessary shielding to send 480p signals. You will get ringing noise. It's certainly possible with high quality cables, but keep this in mind.

So should I add that coax upgrade to my order from retro_console_accessories?


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 Post subject: Re: PS2 RGsB Setup
PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 9:12 pm 



Joined: 20 Feb 2017
Posts: 12
retrorgb wrote:
clutchins wrote:
I was thinking about getting a Sync on Luma cable and just using that for Sync on Green and probably throw in a SCART to BNC cable with a Sync Stripper.

That's probably the best solution at the moment.

People seem to get so confused about PS2 & RGsB. I'm always trying to find a way to make it clearer to understand on my page, but I guess I'm failing...

I'm really grateful for your page on the site dedicated to this subject. I would have never considered it had I not seen it.

That said, I think the section would be better off listing the simplest ways to hook up RGsB going all the way to the extreme PS2 -> (SCART Sync on Luma) -> Sync Strike ->(D-Sub VGA) -> Extron 203 Rxi -> (BNC to Mini DIN) -> Framemeister. In my opinion, that would be a more logical to set that up, from simple to complex.


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 Post subject: Re: PS2 RGsB Setup
PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 9:27 pm 



Joined: 05 Dec 2012
Posts: 343
That's a good suggestion, thanks! I guess I can try to list scenario's. My only concern is for people who try to use the component video cables; When you switch to RGB instead of component, the on-screen colors get weird. I imagine some displays might not work at all. Either way:

RGsB-compatible target device (OSSC, BVM, some PVM's, etc):
PS2 -> RGB SCART cable -> Target
PS2 -> Component Cables -> Target

RGBs Compatible device:
PS2 -> Sync stripper (in cable or external device) -> Extron RXi -> Target

All the cabling make it really hard for lists like that though. There's a new solution coming out that will be by far the best way to do it...I'll update when there's a prototype ready.


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 Post subject: Re: PS2 RGsB Setup
PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 9:31 pm 


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If BVM's are like PVM's, which accept composite video for sync, then you don't need a sync stripper. Just hook up a component video cable that also has a composite video connector, then just make sure you switch your BVM to sync-on-green before you switch to 480p in your PS2 game.

My PC monitor doesn't accept 480i, so I just use Free MC Boot and GS Mode Selector to switch immedately to 480p by holding R2 on startup.


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 Post subject: Re: PS2 RGsB Setup
PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 10:23 pm 



Joined: 04 Jul 2010
Posts: 146
How useful are Y adapter cables in this regard?
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 Post subject: Re: PS2 RGsB Setup
PostPosted: Sat Apr 22, 2017 2:02 pm 


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headlesshobbs wrote:
How useful are Y adapter cables in this regard?


I use one for my sync lines because my component switch doesn't carry a composite line. Works fine in that situation.


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 Post subject: Re: PS2 RGsB Setup
PostPosted: Sat Apr 22, 2017 2:26 pm 



Joined: 07 Apr 2016
Posts: 840
Location: Ohio
How does RGsB compare to RsGB and RGBs, Sync on Composite, Sync on Luma and Pure Sync?


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 Post subject: Re: PS2 RGsB Setup
PostPosted: Sat Apr 22, 2017 7:03 pm 



Joined: 05 Dec 2012
Posts: 343
Does this explain it?: https://youtu.be/Ej3rMrXNgyU

I tried to make it as simple as possible, but I could use some feedback before I make the video "public".


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 Post subject: Re: PS2 RGsB Setup
PostPosted: Sun Apr 23, 2017 10:31 am 


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In regard to your video: there are two reasons why Scart uses Composite video for RGB sync in the first place:

The "important" one is that Scart simply didn't require RGB compatibility. Scart on video recorders (most VHS machines here in Europe had Scart) only supports composite through Scart and most TVs with more than one scart input only offered RGB on the first input (while the second Scart input offered Y/C and composite). By using composite as sync the manufacturers made sure that you always get a picture, no matter if your sink supported RGB or not.

And the second (less important) one (which you mentioned yourself later in the video) is that CSYNC usually dictates TTL signal levels, which TVs weren't built for.

At the end you make Luma as sync sound considerably worse than CSYNC. Except for setups in which a clean sync is required (running through Extron switchers), I can't think of any system or setup in which Luma as sync has any disadvantages over pure sync. Can you ?


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 Post subject: Re: PS2 RGsB Setup
PostPosted: Sun Apr 23, 2017 1:01 pm 



Joined: 05 Dec 2012
Posts: 343
Hey Fudoh, thanks so much for your feedback! I was debating if I should mention composite-video-through-SCART. I wasn't sure if it was worth mentioning that all SCART cables aren't RGB, or if it was better to stick to RGB as to not confuse people. I think you're right - I should change that part.

I think I need to have a follow-up video on TTL launch the same day as the final version of this one. That's a separate topic altogether that should be out there as well.

As for luma-as-sync...yeah, definitely: The StarTech.com capture cards require csync, as well as many of the VGA switches I've used in the past with custom cables (running RGBs through RGBHV d-sub cables)...using luma just won't work. Also, there are people who claim using luma as sync with certain N64's results in a crosshatch pattern being seen on their displays. I've never seen this is person, but it was a big discussion on AssemblerGames.

Thanks again for chiming in!


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 Post subject: Re: PS2 RGsB Setup
PostPosted: Sun Apr 23, 2017 1:31 pm 


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retrorgb wrote:
Hey Fudoh, thanks so much for your feedback! I was debating if I should mention composite-video-through-SCART. I wasn't sure if it was worth mentioning that all SCART cables aren't RGB, or if it was better to stick to RGB as to not confuse people. I think you're right - I should change that part.

I think I need to have a follow-up video on TTL launch the same day as the final version of this one. That's a separate topic altogether that should be out there as well.

As for luma-as-sync...yeah, definitely: The StarTech.com capture cards require csync, as well as many of the VGA switches I've used in the past with custom cables (running RGBs through RGBHV d-sub cables)...using luma just won't work. Also, there are people who claim using luma as sync with certain N64's results in a crosshatch pattern being seen on their displays. I've never seen this is person, but it was a big discussion on AssemblerGames.

Thanks again for chiming in!

But compatibility aside : if we're purely talking picture quality, are you sure you can state as fact that luma as sync is noticeably worse than csync?


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 Post subject: Re: PS2 RGsB Setup
PostPosted: Sun Apr 23, 2017 1:35 pm 



Joined: 05 Dec 2012
Posts: 343
FinalBaton wrote:
But compatibility aside : if we're purely talking picture quality, are you sure you can state as fact that luma as sync is noticeably worse than csync?

I think I explained my reasoning pretty clearly. I'd love to link to the thread where pics were posted, but it's dead. What I am comfortable stating as fact as it would be easier overall if you could get 75ohm csync from every console.


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 Post subject: Re: PS2 RGsB Setup
PostPosted: Sun Apr 23, 2017 1:50 pm 


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retrorgb wrote:
I think I explained my reasoning pretty clearly. I'd love to link to the thread where pics were posted, but it's dead. What I am comfortable stating as fact as it would be easier overall if you could get 75ohm csync from every console.

Maybe you shouldn't say in your vid that luma causes interference! What do you think? legit asking. Just brainstorming with you here.

Since people will look up your vid for advice, you really need to avoid stuff that isn't 100% proven as cold hard facts, in my opinion.


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 Post subject: Re: PS2 RGsB Setup
PostPosted: Sun Apr 23, 2017 2:06 pm 



Joined: 05 Dec 2012
Posts: 343
FinalBaton wrote:
Maybe you shouldn't say in your vid that luma causes interference! What do you think? legit asking. Just brainstorming with you here.

Since people will look up your vid for advice, you really need to avoid stuff that isn't 100% proven as cold hard facts, in my opinion.

Ahhhh, that's what you meant. Good advice.

The truth is, besides what people posted on Assemblergames (that I didn't reproduce), I've seen some weird issues using luma as sync before, but in most cases, I only had one console to test. I'd never mention that specific scenario unless it was reproducible across multiple consoles with the same model revision, but when using csync with the same console, there weren't any issues. Now, in each scenario, something else could have been effecting it...maybe I built my sync stripper wrong and it added interference, maybe the cable I was using wasn't as well made as the csync one, etc...but that's kinda my point: If it's possible to use 75ohm csync, it removes many points of failure altogether.


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 Post subject: Re: PS2 RGsB Setup
PostPosted: Sun Apr 23, 2017 3:18 pm 


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Hm, I've used luma sync on i think 3 different PS2s now with a few different set ups and never noticed any sort of interference (and i'm anal as shit about that). Seems like it might be a poorly made cable or a monitor/upscaler/etc. not handling it so well, rather than anything wrong with the signal itself.


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 Post subject: Re: PS2 RGsB Setup
PostPosted: Sun Apr 23, 2017 3:30 pm 



Joined: 05 Dec 2012
Posts: 343
Right....I gotta re-do that video...

When it comes to PS2, I have absolutely never seen interference when using luma. I was talking about other consoles and specific scenarios.


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 Post subject: Re: PS2 RGsB Setup
PostPosted: Sun Apr 23, 2017 7:54 pm 



Joined: 26 Nov 2011
Posts: 149
retrorgb wrote:
clutchins wrote:
I was thinking about getting a Sync on Luma cable and just using that for Sync on Green and probably throw in a SCART to BNC cable with a Sync Stripper.

That's probably the best solution at the moment.

People seem to get so confused about PS2 & RGsB. I'm always trying to find a way to make it clearer to understand on my page, but I guess I'm failing...


I wouldn't be too confident in people like that. What's confusing about it?
PS2 outputs RGsB if and only if the game is 480p or greater. A relatively microscopic slice of its library.


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 Post subject: Re: PS2 RGsB Setup
PostPosted: Sun Apr 23, 2017 8:30 pm 


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theclaw wrote:
PS2 outputs RGsB if and only if the game is 480p or greater. A relatively microscopic slice of its library.


Huh, microscopic?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_P ... play_modes <---sort by 480p

And those are the games that officially support it. With GS Mode Selector, you can play a lot more games in 480p.


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