shmups.system11.org

Shmups Forum
 
* FAQ    * Search
 * Register  * Login 
It is currently Sat Jun 24, 2017 10:30 am View unanswered posts
View active topics



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 23 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: OSSC compatibility X68000 & Vga Switch for Japanese Computer
PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 7:14 am 


User avatar

Joined: 01 Aug 2014
Posts: 39
Location: English is not my native language, sorry about any grammar mistakes.
Two questions:

1)Has anyone tried the OSSC with x68000 (compatibilty with 24 khz)?
I saw this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vXouxncVu6w

But it was too short and he didn't show "the screen-mode transitions between 15khz/24/31kz ( for example Bubble Bobble has this in the config). and how a 24khz game looks".

2)Maybe a year ago I spotted on Yahoo Japan a vga switch with the VGA Japanese RGB-15 Connector (different from ours).
Is it difficult to find another one? Because I'd like to hook up to my Nec tri sync monitor (PC-TD151) my x68000 and Fm Towns at the same time (hope that superdeadite will read this :D ).


Last edited by bateman82 on Wed May 10, 2017 9:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: OSSC compatibility X6800 & Vga Switch for Japanese Compu
PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 8:44 am 



Joined: 09 Apr 2012
Posts: 1894
Uh, the screen mode transitions and how 24khz (either natively or linedoubled) looks will be dependent on your display.


Top
 Online Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: OSSC compatibility X6800 & Vga Switch for Japanese Compu
PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 2:41 pm 



Joined: 23 Mar 2011
Posts: 483
I know basically nothing about the OSSC, don't have a need for one.

Not many games use 24khz on X68K, but the ones that do are 24khz native and look best that way.

As an X68000 owner, my biggest questions about the OSSC would be:
1. How fast can it switch between resolution changes? Galseed 2 for example uses 15khz during gameplay, but uses 31khz for menus and transition screens. Meaning the game is constantly going back and forth between the two. The Framemeister is too slow for this, but the XPC-4 can handle it properly.
2. What about interlaced video? Again rare, but Code Zero, Syvalion, and a few others actually do use 480i. Syvalion use 240p for gameplay and 480i for menu screens, and considering the stages are less then a minute long, you are switching quite often.

For a VGA switch box, I use a Selecty15. Other generic switchers exist, but quality varies. Note, you can easily get D-SUB15 (Sharp/NEC/Towns) to HD-SUB15 (VGA) adapters brand new on amazon.jp. Sanwa Supply still makes them.

Be careful with Towns though! Old Towns machines output in RGBS, while later units like the Fresh series output in RGBHV. Old Towns and Sharp/NEC use different wiring even thought the connectors are the same. If you have an older towns, adding a Towns Video Card will give you RGBHV and compatibility with Sharp/NEC standard though.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: OSSC compatibility X6800 & Vga Switch for Japanese Compu
PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 4:06 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 01 Aug 2014
Posts: 39
Location: English is not my native language, sorry about any grammar mistakes.
Thank you for your fast answer SuperDeadite, you and Fudoh are my "guide" since the beginning, it's a honor!

From the bottom to the top:

-I've got a Fm Towns (the Pentium one) so I think there will be no issues with my Nec tri sync monitor (PC-TD151) and even with the Selecty15 (thanks a lot for the tip, I will search one on Yahoo Japan, what about the price?).
Fot the Fm Towns I've got only:

Loom
Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade
Zak McKracken and the Alien Mindbenders
Genocide Squared
Operation Wolf (no spinecard, right?)

That runs fine straight into my bigger Lacie Electron Blue 22 (via D-SUB15 to HD-SUB15 cable bundled with Xpc-4), so I presume that they all output 480p natively, is that correct?

I'd like to buy, sooner or later:

Tatsujin-Oh
Raiden Densetsu
Super Shooting Towns
Rayxanber
Splatterhouse
Ultima Trilogy 1-3
Volified
Puzznic
Alltynex - doujin

Do you think that everything will run fine on my HB regarding resolution and cpu too fast?


-- I've got pretty the same about the Ossc, but unlucky the video I posted in the first post (Todd's Nerd Cave) it's too short.

Maybe we can have more news from him with a new video or someone else here that has both the Ossc and a x68000 can aswer.

I'd love to have an alternative to my Xpc-4.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: OSSC compatibility X6800 & Vga Switch for Japanese Compu
PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 9:43 pm 



Joined: 07 Oct 2015
Posts: 74
Resolution changes can vary in speed depending on the monitor, video source, and scaling mode. On the monitors I have here, they generally re-sync within a second or two. Its definitely faster then the Framemeister from what I've seen in other's videos.

OP, its likely best to build adapter cables to a standard VGA HD15. Luckily the FM Towns and X68000 use a common DB-15 port.

http://www.gamesx.com/wiki/doku.php?id= ... ese_rgb-15


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: OSSC compatibility X6800 & Vga Switch for Japanese Compu
PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 10:57 pm 



Joined: 23 Mar 2011
Posts: 483
Adapters and adapter cables are easy to buy. Really no point in making your own cables unless you enjoy the work or have the parts sitting around.

I have never used the Pentium Towns. Towns systems will upscale games if they output in an unsupported resolution. Turbo Outrun only runs in 15khz, when played on a stock Fresh, it is forced into 31khz by running the game in a big black border. However, adding a video card restored the 15khz so it runs like it should.

Older Towns games can be a bit bitchy. Shadow of the Beast II will refuse to boot on any system with more then 4mbs of RAM installed. The Pentium Towns is really overkill for games, unless you really want to install Win'95 on it.

I really can't predict how stuff will run on hardware I have never used. As long as you know what your systems do, just make safe choices and you shouldn't break anything.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: OSSC compatibility X6800 & Vga Switch for Japanese Compu
PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 12:47 am 


User avatar

Joined: 01 Aug 2014
Posts: 39
Location: English is not my native language, sorry about any grammar mistakes.
Thank you for your reply, SuperDeadite, interesting & informative as ever.

I've got a pair of questions:

1)You wrote about "a video card restored the 15khz", I'm posting here the pics of my HB (both front and retro) and I'm only sure that there is a Midi Card, what about the other cards? Is there the video card you've mentioned?
Spoiler: show
Image

Image



2)When I turn on the system without any game the HB is struck in a loading screen. Is it because I didn't have an hard drive to boot?

Here's the pic of the internal (I hope it helps):
Spoiler: show
Image


As you can see, not in the best condition :(
Spoiler: show
Image


Here's the boot without a game (struck in loading screen):
Spoiler: show
Image


Here's the boot screen with a game:
Spoiler: show
Image


3)Today I've found that the spindle of the Cd-rom is "melting" leaving black traces on the games:
Spoiler: show
Image

Image


Do you know if is there any solution to this issue?




NJRoadfan wrote:
Resolution changes can vary in speed depending on the monitor, video source, and scaling mode. On the monitors I have here, they generally re-sync within a second or two. Its definitely faster then the Framemeister from what I've seen in other's videos.

Thanks for your reply but I need someone that has both the Ossc and a X68000 to solve this:
bateman82 wrote:

1)Has anyone tried the OSSC with x68000 (compatibilty with 24 khz)?
I saw this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vXouxncVu6w

But it was too short and he didn't show "the screen-mode transitions between 15khz/24/31kz ( for example Bubble Bobble has this in the config). and how a 24khz game looks".


and this:

SuperDeadite wrote:
2. What about interlaced video? Again rare, but Code Zero, Syvalion, and a few others actually do use 480i. Syvalion use 240p for gameplay and 480i for menu screens, and considering the stages are less then a minute long, you are switching quite often.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: OSSC compatibility X6800 & Vga Switch for Japanese Compu
PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 7:39 am 



Joined: 09 Apr 2012
Posts: 1894
A resolution change is a resolution change, how quickly and nicely it's handled is dependent on your monitor. It's usually irrelevant which resolution it's changing from or to (240p, 384p, 480i), but if it's relevant that's also specific to your monitor.

24khz is (optionally) linedoubled to 1024x768. 1024x768 is 1024x768. Unless you have a 1024x768 native monitor how that looks will very heavily be dependent on your monitor's scaling algorithm.

There is no magic in the X68000 that changes these facts. If you want to know accurately how the OSSC+X68000 combo will perform you need to find someone with the same monitor as you. Not someone with an X68000 and a different monitor.


Top
 Online Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: OSSC compatibility X6800 & Vga Switch for Japanese Compu
PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 10:56 am 



Joined: 23 Mar 2011
Posts: 483
Yes you have a Towns Video card installed, it's what your monitor cable is attached to lol.
So 15khz games should run in actual 15khz.

Can't really tell from your pic if you have an HDD installed or not. Quite sure all the Pentium machines came with them though, as Windows '95 was the only reason for their existence.

Based on the message you have, I would guess you do have an HDD installed, but it is unreadable so the system is giving you the error message.

Towns machines actually store HDD format/partition data in the SRAM. Once the battery goes, so does your HDD. You have to change the battery, then reformat and install TownsOS from scratch. Most users install dual battery holders so you can change the battery freely every 5 years or so.

The CD spindle is a common issue with these drives. Mine is the same, not much can be done.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: OSSC compatibility X6800 & Vga Switch for Japanese Compu
PostPosted: Sat Apr 22, 2017 10:00 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 01 Aug 2014
Posts: 39
Location: English is not my native language, sorry about any grammar mistakes.
ZellSF wrote:
Unless you have a 1024x768 native monitor how that looks will very heavily be dependent on your monitor's scaling algorithm.


I will use the same crt monitor that you can see in the pictures (lacie electron Blue IV), so no scaling.

I appreciate your point of view "it will work, no magic in x68000", but my request was "experience with the real hardware".


SuperDeadite wrote:
Can't really tell from your pic if you have an HDD installed or not. Quite sure all the Pentium machines came with them though, as Windows '95 was the only reason for their existence.

Based on the message you have, I would guess you do have an HDD installed, but it is unreadable so the system is giving you the error message.

Towns machines actually store HDD format/partition data in the SRAM. Once the battery goes, so does your HDD. You have to change the battery, then reformat and install TownsOS from scratch. Most users install dual battery holders so you can change the battery freely every 5 years or so.


Thanks a lot! Do you know where is the battery located?

If I replaced the battery, would there be any chance that HDD will work without a format or a new TownsOs installation?


SuperDeadite wrote:
The CD spindle is a common issue with these drives. Mine is the same, not much can be done.


Do you think it could be possible to replace the spindle without damaging it?
Because, as you know, some Fm Towns games (especially my beloved Lucas Adventures) are really expensive and I'm afraid to ruin them.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: OSSC compatibility X6800 & Vga Switch for Japanese Compu
PostPosted: Sun Apr 23, 2017 12:48 am 



Joined: 23 Mar 2011
Posts: 483
The instant the battery goes, so does your hdd.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: OSSC compatibility X6800 & Vga Switch for Japanese Compu
PostPosted: Tue May 09, 2017 12:39 am 


User avatar

Joined: 01 Aug 2014
Posts: 39
Location: English is not my native language, sorry about any grammar mistakes.
I've found this guide online:

http://retrostuff.org/2016/10/11/fm-towns-ii-fresh・e-battery-replacement/

do you think that I have to solder something or is it just like the (for example) replace Saturn battery?

If you had replaced the battery of your fm towns can you please write me the serial number (or a link)?


SuperDeadite wrote:
For a VGA switch box, I use a Selecty15. Other generic switchers exist, but quality varies. Note, you can easily get D-SUB15 (Sharp/NEC/Towns) to HD-SUB15 (VGA) adapters brand new on amazon.jp. Sanwa Supply still makes them.


I've searched for the Selecty15 quite a lot, browsing yahoo auction etc... but it seems really hard to find. Do you remember where you bought it?

I've searched in the Micomsoft website for an alternative and, in the discontinued product page, I've found the XVGA-2 (Multi Scan Converter?).

But I can't find any news or pics about that devices, nothing.

Do you know if there is an alternative (made by Micomsoft) to the Selecty15?


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: OSSC compatibility X6800 & Vga Switch for Japanese Compu
PostPosted: Tue May 09, 2017 1:25 pm 



Joined: 23 Mar 2011
Posts: 483
Selecty15 hasn't been made in like 15 years or so. I actually bought mine from Amazon JP, but this was years ago. They show up on yahoo every few months though and don't sell for a whole lot, there just isn't a lot of demand. I actually have a Selecty21 linked to my Selecty15 so I can use everything on my Arcade monitor.

On my Fresh, I just cut out the old battery, then soldered wires to the solder points and mounted my twin battery holder on the side of the hdd case to make it easier to change.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: OSSC compatibility X68000 & Vga Switch for Japanese Comp
PostPosted: Wed May 10, 2017 10:02 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 01 Aug 2014
Posts: 39
Location: English is not my native language, sorry about any grammar mistakes.
Thanks a lot SuperDeadite, informative as always.

As soon as I have some free time, I will open my Fm Towns and try to replace the battery.

Two last questions:

What operating system do you suggest to install (with the new battery)? TownsOs or Windows (maybe compatibilty issues)?

I like to have all my software original, what version should I buy?


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: OSSC compatibility X68000 & Vga Switch for Japanese Comp
PostPosted: Wed May 10, 2017 11:25 pm 



Joined: 23 Mar 2011
Posts: 483
TownsOS 2.1 L50 is all you need. Windows is pointless and a pain to install.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: OSSC compatibility X68000 & Vga Switch for Japanese Comp
PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2017 12:17 am 


User avatar

Joined: 01 Aug 2014
Posts: 39
Location: English is not my native language, sorry about any grammar mistakes.
Nothing on Yahoo Auction,

Found this on Suruga-ya:

http://www.suruga-ya.jp/product/detail/127000806001

And it's l20, not l50.

Never tought it could be so expensive. Maybe is it better to wait on Yahoo?


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: OSSC compatibility X68000 & Vga Switch for Japanese Comp
PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2017 10:49 am 



Joined: 23 Mar 2011
Posts: 483
L50 is the final version, so it's the most sought after. You can always just burn a cd-r of it. Once it's installed to the HDD, you don't really need it anymore.

I actually have L30 installed on my machine, and everything works fine though. Even really late games like Strike Commander and Sim City 2000 run fine on it. I have seen some games that do require L20 minimum though.

If you do install Windows, you can run any pure windows software. So a game that runs in Windows and doesn't use anything in DOS will run. There is even direct-x for FM Towns. But, you are just running standard Windows games, so rather pointless these days. Also a real pain to install, as you must first install FM-Towns DOS off of floppies, then install Windows. 3.11 will happily coexist with TownsOS, but Windows 95 tends to take over the system breaking all the TownsOS games.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: OSSC compatibility X68000 & Vga Switch for Japanese Comp
PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2017 7:39 pm 



Joined: 27 Jul 2012
Posts: 47
Hi guys!

That's my video and channel.

I plan to do a follow up video to this one showcasing the difference between how it handles 15/24 and 31khz from the x68000.

But, in a nutshell, I have found that most games keep the correct aspect ratio when choosing 31khz. 15Khz sometimes the aspect ratio is slightly off. But that depends on the game as some have multiple 15khz options. Also 24khz seems to be stretched vertically a bit. Using the OSSC options menu you can of course adjust and correct most all of this. But with the default OSSC settings, 31Khz usually comes out the best.


But as far as changing screen modes goes, it's pretty much instantaneous.


Sorry for not seeing this thread earlier. I'll try to post a follow up video soon.


bateman82 wrote:
Two questions:

1)Has anyone tried the OSSC with x68000 (compatibilty with 24 khz)?
I saw this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vXouxncVu6w

But it was too short and he didn't show "the screen-mode transitions between 15khz/24/31kz ( for example Bubble Bobble has this in the config). and how a 24khz game looks".
_________________
Check out Todd's Nerd Cave on Youtube!


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: OSSC compatibility X68000 & Vga Switch for Japanese Comp
PostPosted: Fri May 12, 2017 9:20 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 10386
Location: Germany
which Dell display model are you using in your X68k video ?


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: OSSC compatibility X68000 & Vga Switch for Japanese Comp
PostPosted: Fri May 12, 2017 10:36 pm 



Joined: 27 Jul 2012
Posts: 47
P2414H
_________________
Check out Todd's Nerd Cave on Youtube!


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: OSSC compatibility X68000 & Vga Switch for Japanese Comp
PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 8:16 am 


User avatar

Joined: 03 Jan 2008
Posts: 135
Setup;
x68000 XVI +jpRGB2VGA cable + OSSC + DVI + BenQ 902

Working great, only 1-2% of the lower screen go offscreen.

The x68k does not like VGA switch boxes, most result in black screens :-)


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: OSSC compatibility X68000 & Vga Switch for Japanese Comp
PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 9:41 am 



Joined: 07 Feb 2013
Posts: 175
are there any x68k video splitters? if you'd like to have one into your framemeister/ossc and the other into your monitor.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: OSSC compatibility X68000 & Vga Switch for Japanese Comp
PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 11:03 am 



Joined: 23 Mar 2011
Posts: 483
The X68K works fine on the Selecty15.
As for video splitting, the XPC-4 does this. If you are using the D-Terminal/S-Video/Composite output, the analog output works as a pass-through.
It's how I do my captures, the pass-through to my CRT, and the D-Terminal to the capture card.

And nothing will ever replace a CRT. Playing Dracula with the stereoscopic 3D patch is the ultimate show-piece for the system imo.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 23 posts ] 

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Blair, Google [Bot], ZellSF and 11 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Space Pilot 3K template by Jakob Persson
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group