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 Post subject: GC VIDEO Project P
PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 4:34 am 



Joined: 18 Mar 2017
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Update: After much consideration with talking to other members, as well as many feedback and improvement requests I have received, I have decided to to take everyone's advice and improve the product before any kind of true beta release. Thank you.


Last edited by zeldaxpro on Tue Mar 21, 2017 1:54 am, edited 3 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: GC VIDEO PLUG N PLAY: IT'S FINALLY HERE!!
PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 8:45 am 


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zeldaxpro wrote:
What about an on screen menu?

Do to the nature of plug n play, it is impossible to access the on screen menu.

Nope. You just didn't bother to add a few components to allow access to the OSD.


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 Post subject: Re: GC VIDEO PLUG N PLAY: IT'S FINALLY HERE!!
PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 11:00 am 


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Congrats :mrgreen:

Quote:
Nope. You just didn't bother to add a few components to allow access to the OSD.


That would surely require some internal modifications to the cube?
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 Post subject: Re: GC VIDEO PLUG N PLAY: IT'S FINALLY HERE!!
PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 11:15 am 



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This method of making a connector has been discussed over and over. I have my doubts if this thing will last long. Seems like a lot of money to throw against a very sub par connector.


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 Post subject: Re: GC VIDEO PLUG N PLAY: IT'S FINALLY HERE!!
PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 11:19 am 


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BuckoA51 wrote:
Quote:
Nope. You just didn't bother to add a few components to allow access to the OSD.


That would surely require some internal modifications to the cube?

No, just a button and an IR receiver on the external "plug".


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 Post subject: Re: GC VIDEO PLUG N PLAY: IT'S FINALLY HERE!!
PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 1:05 pm 



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Very cool design :!:


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 Post subject: Re: GC VIDEO PLUG N PLAY: IT'S FINALLY HERE!!
PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 1:10 pm 


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meneerbeer wrote:
This method of making a connector has been discussed over and over. I have my doubts if this thing will last long. Seems like a lot of money to throw against a very sub par connector.

More on that please ? What's the criticism ? (or link to)
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 Post subject: Re: GC VIDEO PLUG N PLAY: IT'S FINALLY HERE!!
PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 2:14 pm 



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I appreciate all the feedback and will take all your comments seriously. I think I've already addressed a lot of your concerns in the design, but I've edited the topic to reflect that this is a very small run of pre-production boards and that I'm open to any improvements and design changes. Thank you!


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 Post subject: Re: GC VIDEO PLUG N PLAY: IT'S FINALLY HERE!!
PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 2:23 pm 


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Are there any plans for an analog (YPbPr) solution?


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 Post subject: Re: GC VIDEO PLUG N PLAY: IT'S FINALLY HERE!!
PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 4:13 pm 


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My feedback on this:

1) If it's the HDMI version, it should support the OSD. If that requires an IR receiver, so be it.

2) I'm more interested in an analog version (240p/480i/480p RGB) than a digital version, because an analog version could integrate into my current setup with a PVM/OSSC.

3) I don't like the idea of something so large hanging off the port. I'd prefer if the box was attached to the custom connector via a cable instead, to avoid putting extra torque on the connector.

4) The price is more than I'm willing to pay for this product. It's nearly three times the price of the gcvideo itself ($50-60 depending on the source, which I could probably install myself), and double the price that I paid to get RGB out of my NTSC cube via the PAL mainboard approach. I don't think I'd be willing to pay more than $100 (call it $99 for marketing) for this, assuming the other concerns were addressed. That and whatever price you charge will probably double once taxes/shipping/customs duties/exchange rate to CAD are added.


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 Post subject: Re: GC VIDEO PLUG N PLAY: IT'S FINALLY HERE!!
PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 4:21 pm 



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Guspaz wrote:
4) The price is more than I'm willing to pay for this product. It's nearly three times the price of the gcvideo itself ($50-60 depending on the source, which I could probably install myself), and double the price that I paid to get RGB out of my NTSC cube via the PAL mainboard approach.

This^^
Not adressing anyone personally but remember when we were promised a "cheap and affordable" alternative back in the day when official cables sold for outrageous (back then) 80$ per piece on ebay?
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 Post subject: Re: GC VIDEO PLUG N PLAY: IT'S FINALLY HERE!!
PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 4:36 pm 


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Same feeling here. Since the beginning the purpose of an alternative was to kill that insult of a jp component cable business.
Also I feel too many modder guys around are overestimating the interest in GC video output solutions, while the N64 is kind of a retro symbol, the GC ended up more niche and forgotten. I can't find a good reason to spend more on an adapter (or a cable whatever) than what my GC + the handful of games I have left are worth.
Maybe sorta completionist collectors do, but to me it's way too expensive.
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 Post subject: Re: GC VIDEO PLUG N PLAY: IT'S FINALLY HERE!!
PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 4:54 pm 


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+1 for analog video

You might think it's strange wanting component YPbPr or RGB on a console this new, but a lot of us want to use the gameboy player on a CRT in 240p.


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 Post subject: Re: GC VIDEO PLUG N PLAY: IT'S FINALLY HERE!!
PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 5:11 pm 


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The gameboy player is the only reason for me to use a GameCube.. I have been following different alternatives for a while and none have been cheap.. I rather spend the $250 plus money on an official cable, I know that it will work out of the box and if I need to sell it, I would get most of the money back.

Shoryukev wrote:
+1 for analog video

You might think it's strange wanting component YPbPr or RGB on a console this new, but a lot of us want to use the gameboy player on a CRT in 240p.
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 Post subject: Re: GC VIDEO PLUG N PLAY: IT'S FINALLY HERE!!
PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 5:38 pm 


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Hahaha, I thought Badass Consoles had finally come out with his GCVideo, but instead he was beaten to market.

I don't know what your components are costing you, but the price is definitely too high. Of course, it's a pre-production run. Will it be cheaper later on?


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 Post subject: Re: GC VIDEO PLUG N PLAY: IT'S FINALLY HERE!!
PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 5:42 pm 



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Price does seem a little high. I was selling my kit including installation for $110.

Just for the PCB's assembled was $75. I'm also using some expensive voltage regulators 1.2v and 5v on the qsb which raised my cost. So I doubt your cost is higher than mine.

But still good job on being the first plug n play solution.


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 Post subject: Re: GC VIDEO PLUG N PLAY: IT'S FINALLY HERE!!
PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 6:50 pm 



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Thanks everyone for the additional advice and comments, I will be taking them in consideration. I have also edited the price to be re evaluated for the time being. Again, this is a pre-production run to see how things go. Thank you.


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 Post subject: Re: GC VIDEO PLUG N PLAY: IT'S FINALLY HERE!!
PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 7:09 pm 


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Shuco13 wrote:
Not adressing anyone personally but remember when we were promised a "cheap and affordable" alternative back in the day when official cables sold for outrageous (back then) 80$ per piece on ebay?

I think cables were around 120-150 EUR when I started the project. From a purely financial point of view I should've bought one instead of creating GCVideo, but where is the fun in that? =)


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 Post subject: Re: GC VIDEO PLUG N PLAY: IT'S FINALLY HERE!!
PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 8:46 pm 


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"No lag 480i/480p output over HDMI" - sure, but good luck finding an HDMI display that is true native 480p and/or doesn't add delay from image processing or scaling. VGA/RGB/YPbPr outputs would be handy.


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 Post subject: Re: GC VIDEO PLUG N PLAY: IT'S FINALLY HERE!!
PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 11:06 pm 


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mikejmoffitt wrote:
"No lag 480i/480p output over HDMI" - sure, but good luck finding an HDMI display that is true native 480p and/or doesn't add delay from image processing or scaling. VGA/RGB/YPbPr outputs would be handy.


All progressive inputs will scale at about the same speed.

Overscan, size, aspect ratio, and quality are the big issues with 480p. Analog is easier to feed into the OSSC.
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 Post subject: Re: GC VIDEO PLUG N PLAY: IT'S FINALLY HERE!!
PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2017 12:25 am 


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orange808 wrote:
mikejmoffitt wrote:
"No lag 480i/480p output over HDMI" - sure, but good luck finding an HDMI display that is true native 480p and/or doesn't add delay from image processing or scaling. VGA/RGB/YPbPr outputs would be handy.


All progressive inputs will scale at about the same speed.

Overscan, size, aspect ratio, and quality are the big issues with 480p. Analog is easier to feed into the OSSC.


Deinterlacing is only one issue, which progressive solves. Scaling is another, and your typical monitor or TV is seldom tested to scale progressive inputs in under one frame's worth of time.


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 Post subject: Re: GC VIDEO PLUG N PLAY: IT'S FINALLY HERE!!
PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2017 12:35 am 


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I wonder which models of HD Fury support 480i/240p pixel clocks, if any. You would need that to basically turn this into an analog RGB/Component output.


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 Post subject: Re: GC VIDEO PLUG N PLAY: IT'S FINALLY HERE!!
PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2017 12:43 am 


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BazookaBen wrote:
I wonder which models of HD Fury support 480i/240p pixel clocks, if any. You would need that to basically turn this into an analog RGB/Component output.


If your solution is already external, and your goal is RGB/component, which GCVideo already has a version for, waiting for an analog plug-n-play unit of some kind makes a lot more sense.


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 Post subject: Re: GC VIDEO PLUG N PLAY: IT'S FINALLY HERE!!
PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2017 12:45 am 


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bobrocks95 wrote:
If your solution is already external, and your goal is RGB/component, which GCVideo already has a version for, waiting for an analog plug-n-play unit of some kind makes a lot more sense.


I'm just unsure if that will ever come to fruition considering the vast majority of users are on digital screens.


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 Post subject: Re: GC VIDEO PLUG N PLAY: IT'S FINALLY HERE!!
PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2017 12:46 am 


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mikejmoffitt wrote:
orange808 wrote:
mikejmoffitt wrote:
"No lag 480i/480p output over HDMI" - sure, but good luck finding an HDMI display that is true native 480p and/or doesn't add delay from image processing or scaling. VGA/RGB/YPbPr outputs would be handy.


All progressive inputs will scale at about the same speed.

Overscan, size, aspect ratio, and quality are the big issues with 480p. Analog is easier to feed into the OSSC.


Deinterlacing is only one issue, which progressive solves. Scaling is another, and your typical monitor or TV is seldom tested to scale progressive inputs in under one frame's worth of time.


I doubt any displays have a 16ms difference between displaying native resolution and scaling lower resolutions.

The most difference I've found with the Leo Bodnar a tenth of a millisecond.

I think we're dealing with an urban legend here.
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 Post subject: Re: GC VIDEO PLUG N PLAY: IT'S FINALLY HERE!!
PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2017 12:59 am 


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BazookaBen wrote:
bobrocks95 wrote:
If your solution is already external, and your goal is RGB/component, which GCVideo already has a version for, waiting for an analog plug-n-play unit of some kind makes a lot more sense.


I'm just unsure if that will ever come to fruition considering the vast majority of users are on digital screens.


Hmm, I hope it happens. All the delays with GCVideo-related projects seem to have put a big wrench in the whole thing. I hope nobody has to buy a transcoder that they end up only using on their Gamecube.


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 Post subject: Re: GC VIDEO PLUG N PLAY: IT'S FINALLY HERE!!
PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2017 1:19 am 


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BazookaBen wrote:
I wonder which models of HD Fury support 480i/240p pixel clocks, if any. You would need that to basically turn this into an analog RGB/Component output.


No. HDFury 2 and HDFury Nano both refuse to handle 240p and 480i.
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 Post subject: Re: GC VIDEO PLUG N PLAY: IT'S FINALLY HERE!!
PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2017 1:29 am 



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Can someone explain line doubling? Is this some kind of integer/nearest neighbour scaling?


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 Post subject: Re: GC VIDEO PLUG N PLAY: IT'S FINALLY HERE!!
PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2017 1:39 am 


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orange808 wrote:
BazookaBen wrote:
I wonder which models of HD Fury support 480i/240p pixel clocks, if any. You would need that to basically turn this into an analog RGB/Component output.


No. HDFury 2 and HDFury Nano both refuse to handle 240p and 480i.


Hmmmm, so that bode well for the other models either. So this GC Video would need to be able to pixel-triple on the horizontal axis to get it to work for CRT's.


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 Post subject: Re: GC VIDEO PLUG N PLAY: IT'S FINALLY HERE!!
PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2017 1:48 am 


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strayan wrote:
Can someone explain line doubling? Is this some kind of integer/nearest neighbour scaling?


480i to 480p with quick bob deinterlacing. You're losing half the vertical resolution, but some displays won't accept 480i over HDMI and there's no lag with that deinterlacing method.


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