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 Post subject: Low end Component to VGA/HDMI transcoders
PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 12:05 pm 


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Location: UK
I've just tested out another cheap transcoder the Wiistar ypbpr to hdmi and thought I'd share the results (Spoiler: not good) and also add a bunch of other's I've tested in the past.

Wiistar YPBPR to HDMI

Image
-USB powered
-£16/$20

Good picture but unfortunately has black crush. Didn't test with the problematic Wii signal to check sync.

Mayflash comparison, you can see detail being lost:
Image

Mayflash VGA box

Image
-USB powered
-£11/$14 (Ebay)

Good picture, no chroma shift and shows the correct range with no black crush and is comparable to the quality of the more expensive GARO but can't handle the Wii's signal like the GARO (Bright white flashes cause desyncs e.g. Lighting in Double Dash). Works flawlessly with the Xbox. I did test with ps2 but can't remember if it held sync (Will update when I do).

Mayflash Wii/PS3 VGA cable

Image
-Powered by the console
-£16/$20

Picture quality is as good as the Mayflash VGA box but it's even worse at holding sync, going into and out of channels on the Wii dashboard will cause a desync. Didn't test with a PS3.

Portta HDMI converter

Image
-Mains powered
-£14/$17

Good picture with the best brightness I've seen from these converters, unfortunately, it shows black crush in my tests and a few amazon reviews mention a darker picture also. I saw some infrequent intermittent drops, this could be a psu issue.

Keydigital KD-CTCA2

Image
-Mains powered
-approx £21/$26 (out of print/ebay import price)

I saw a lot of chroma shift on this and the image seemed a little too saturated, it broke quickly after purchasing.

Image

HD Anywhere video converter

Image
-Mains powered
-£8/$11

Awful picture quality with chroma shift and off looking colours.

UNTESTED

Neet - Component to HDMI

Image

A couple of reviews mention a darker picture so my guess is these are crushing black, there's a few user pics on amazon that look like they're exhibiting crush but can't say for sure.

I'll update if I try some other models. Hope this helps and if anyone has any impressions of other models feel free to post them!


Last edited by Gunstar on Fri Mar 17, 2017 6:27 pm, edited 5 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Low end component to VGA/HDMI transcoders
PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 1:56 pm 


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Joined: 06 Feb 2005
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Location: Italy
Thanks for reporting back with your findings. Personally I need to convert from digital to analog right now (to use the OSSC with CRT monitors), but I'm inclined to think that brands that do a bad job one way will behave more or less the same the other way :)

Btw, about your comparison picture - how did you hook up the Wiistar thing to your CRT monitor? I may be wrong but I don't think anyone ever made a CRT monitor with a hdmi or DVI-D connector..


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 Post subject: Re: Low end component to VGA/HDMI transcoders
PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 2:49 pm 


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Image

I use a simple dongle like this (Female HDMI to Female VGA), bought off ebay for around £5. I actually had two that looked exactly the same but the image was darker on one so you have to be careful of quality. I think some of them now come with an option to power it via usb which would probably be best but then you'd need another cable in your chain.

I don't think you need one of these transcoders for OSSC, should be a just case of just getting Dvi-d to VGA adaptor.


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 Post subject: Re: Low end component to VGA/HDMI transcoders
PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 4:32 pm 


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The HDFury Nano is well regarded for HDMI to HD15 (VGA) and it has a gamma adjustment on board. Only go cheap if you have to.
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 Post subject: Re: Low end component to VGA/HDMI transcoders
PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 5:00 pm 


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Awesome findings man. I was looking for a good transcoder that doesn't crush my blacks.

I am gonna try the mayflash and bypass my Ossc on component consoles

I think the gofanko vga converter is crushing blacks on my scart consoles. I wonder if there is a good option for the ossc output like @Xer Xian said.
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 Post subject: Re: Low end component to VGA/HDMI transcoders
PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 5:16 pm 


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Gunstar wrote:
I use a simple dongle like this (Female HDMI to Female VGA)

Thanks, I was expecting that. Adding it to the setup could make comparisons harder but I see you're aware of that already.

@orange808: thanks, I know Hdfury products are well-regarded, but they also seem to be a bit more expensive over here in Europe. I do have an old Gefen dvi to vga converter already which should be equally good, but will get an hdfury at the right price as it will rid me of having an additional power supply (the Gefen unit has an external one).


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 Post subject: Re: Low end component to VGA/HDMI transcoders
PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 5:57 pm 


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Hoagtech wrote:
I am gonna try the mayflash and bypass my Ossc on component consoles


I've only tested it on Wii, Ps2 and Xbox and it had trouble with the Wii's signal. If you've got the budget then the GARO is a solid option when it comes to sync and has some other benefits like a built-in scanline generator and RGBS output via Euro Scart.

MID-RANGE TRANSCODER

GARO

Image
-£69/$85
-Mains powered (psu not provided)

Same picture as the Mayflash, I believe it's using the same chip. Like the mayflash, it has a natural looking colour output, I would have preferred a slightly more saturated look but it's more of a personal taste thing. The scanlines appear faint, more so than the one in my Hanzo vga box but it holds sync perfectly with the Wii. No chroma shift too.

I'm sure it's cheaper to get a Dvi-D to VGA and go through the OSSC though, I think I saw some discussion about them in the OSSC thread.


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 Post subject: Re: Low end component to VGA/HDMI transcoders
PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 6:00 pm 


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The HDFury Gamma X is handy as well. Provided your signal hasn't been damaged by a filter that truly crushed the blacks from the signal, it can fix "too dark".

It was expensive, though...
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 Post subject: Re: Low end component to VGA/HDMI transcoders
PostPosted: Sat Mar 18, 2017 4:16 am 


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Gunstar wrote:
Image

I use a simple dongle like this (Female HDMI to Female VGA), bought off ebay for around £5. I actually had two that looked exactly the same but the image was darker on one so you have to be careful of quality. I think some of them now come with an option to power it via usb which would probably be best but then you'd need another cable in your chain.

I don't think you need one of these transcoders for OSSC, should be a just case of just getting Dvi-d to VGA adaptor.


If you could choose an option today. Which model would you pick that had the powered option?

I am worried these simple devices crush blacks as well.

Crushing it 8)
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 Post subject: Re: Low end component to VGA/HDMI transcoders
PostPosted: Sat Mar 18, 2017 9:44 am 


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Hoagtech wrote:

If you could choose an option today. Which model would you pick that had the powered option?

I am worried these simple devices crush blacks as well.

Crushing it 8)


I had two of the exact same looking hdmi to vga dongles from China and one was crushing black so I couldn't recommend a model as it seems like luck! I've not tested any powered models I'm afraid, I think the only guarantee you would get is from the Fury range as orange808 mentioned.


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 Post subject: Re: Low end Component to VGA/HDMI transcoders
PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 4:44 pm 


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Kanaan - Component to HDMI

Image
-Mains powered
-£15/$19

Good build quality and the picture has no chroma shift but it does crush black, looks like it's a little more severe than the others that have the same issue as it groups almost three bars in the 240p gray ramp test.

Image


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 Post subject: Re: Low end Component to VGA/HDMI transcoders
PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 5:17 pm 


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You did make sure to adjust the display to match the signal you get as an output? I've tried so many different converters and encountered both YCbCr and full range as well as limited range RGB signals, which require you to set the display accordingly. The most interesting one was the Gefen, which technically does output a YCbCr signal, but adds a certain IRE offset, which requires manual brightness adjustment.


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 Post subject: Re: Low end Component to VGA/HDMI transcoders
PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 7:50 pm 


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Fudoh you just made me retest it in case I messed up which has led me to something else. So when I first tested this on a Sharp LCD both through full and limited it made no difference, it was still crushed, but what I missed was that toggling back and forth did nothing. So I then tested this on another TV, a Samsung LCD, which lets you switch between full and limited also and the options is completely greyed out! Can you shed some light on this? Is it the YCbCr signal locking out these options on TVs? Then it occurred to me that a limited signal on a full range display leads to grey blacks/washed out image (correct me if I'm wrong), not the black crush I'm seeing on my pcCRT.

It seems like it's putting out a forced limited picture through full ranged signal without expanding it correctly. So confusing!


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 Post subject: Re: Low end Component to VGA/HDMI transcoders
PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 8:42 pm 


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yes, the options are either greyed out or they don't do anyhting, when the output signal is YCbCr instead of RGB.

When you say pcCRT, are you converting back from YCbCr HDMI to analogue RGBHV ? If so, the question is how your D/A converter is handling limited range compared to full range and if - maybe - some error is introduced at that stage.

My "go to" converter is one looking like the Portta one above (but without the Portta branding) and I've yet to notice any (visible) black crush.

(but just to be clear - I'm not saying that you're wrong. After all - what to expect from a converters in that price range?)


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 Post subject: Re: Low end Component to VGA/HDMI transcoders
PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 9:02 pm 


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Fudoh wrote:
yes, the options are either greyed out or they don't do anyhting, when the output signal is YCbCr instead of RGB.

When you say pcCRT, are you converting back from YCbCr HDMI to analogue RGBHV ? If so, the question is how your D/A converter is handling limited range compared to full range and if - maybe - some error is introduced at that stage.

My "go to" converter is one looking like the Portta one above (but without the Portta branding) and I've yet to notice any (visible) black crush.

(but just to be clear - I'm not saying that you're wrong. After all - what to expect from a converters in that price range?)


Yeah it totally could be the D/A in the converter acting weird with YCbCr, the D/A converter exhibits the expected results when I use it directly with an HDMI capable console but that's RGB.

I also tested the Kaanan on a pcLCD Monitor, which was directly connected to it via HDMI, no D/A converter in the chain and it also showed black crush, I'm presuming it should be grey/washed out then?

I might try my projector to see if it gives any fucks about forcing full/limited in the YUV colourspace.


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 Post subject: Re: Low end Component to VGA/HDMI transcoders
PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 9:06 pm 


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what's your source for the grey ramp (as in which system) ?


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 Post subject: Re: Low end Component to VGA/HDMI transcoders
PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 9:44 pm 


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Using the 240p suite on a Wii. I test with an Xbox running Halo CE too, the first level is handy for checking detail in shadows.


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