shmups.system11.org

Shmups Forum
 
* FAQ    * Search
 * Register  * Login 
It is currently Fri Aug 18, 2017 8:56 am View unanswered posts
View active topics



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 106 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Consumer CRT hunting
PostPosted: Mon Oct 10, 2016 12:59 am 


User avatar

Joined: 17 Apr 2008
Posts: 1379
orange808 wrote:
...

I had a 55" rear projection Sony WEGA for years. The motion on it was fantastic. (I hate blur and ghosting!)

...

Unfortunately, the input lag was atrocious. Couldn't game on it.


We were talking about CRT rear projection TV's, where they have three tubes inside (R,G, and B) projecting onto a mirror or something.

I'm pretty sure you're talking about DLP or LCoS, which is a totally different technology.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Consumer CRT hunting
PostPosted: Mon Oct 10, 2016 2:02 am 



Joined: 02 Feb 2005
Posts: 242
kamiboy wrote:
I can only imagine how gorgeous a 36" screen would look. I've never seen any CRT that large in real life though. I am not even sure whether such sized televisions were ever sold over here, outside of 16:9 tubes.


US 36" would be marketed as 38" in Europe and no, we don't have them. Biggest 4:3 size here is 37" (which would be 35" in the US). I sometimes find US TVs in my local recycling center because there is a US air base nearby. This is a JVC AV-36D104 next to a Sony 29" (27V):

Image
_________________
Im running games with a vga to tv converter on my Shangai Novel, with composite and it looks amazing, Im not interested in RGB or Scart.

- Anonymous on Facebook


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Consumer CRT hunting
PostPosted: Mon Oct 10, 2016 2:28 am 


User avatar

Joined: 20 Aug 2016
Posts: 472
BazookaBen wrote:
orange808 wrote:
...

I had a 55" rear projection Sony WEGA for years. The motion on it was fantastic. (I hate blur and ghosting!)

...

Unfortunately, the input lag was atrocious. Couldn't game on it.


We were talking about CRT rear projection TV's, where they have three tubes inside (R,G, and B) projecting onto a mirror or something.

I'm pretty sure you're talking about DLP or LCoS, which is a totally different technology.


Yep. More conversation than anything.

Given the spirited reply, protection televisions suck for video games. They always did and now they're over.

Probably a subject best left to the avforums.
_________________
We apologize for the inconvenience


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Consumer CRT hunting
PostPosted: Mon Oct 10, 2016 9:49 am 



Joined: 04 Sep 2010
Posts: 1777
Location: Denmark
I had a friend with a huge projection television back in the day. Never really figured out whether it was based on CRT RP or it was a LCD based one. In any regard, it looked absolutely atrocious for gaming. The colours were washed out, and clarity just was not there. I remember that we used to play plenty of PS2 era games on it, and I never thought the display rendered them particularly well.

It worked fairly well for movie watching though. For actually CRT television though, I've never seen one larger than 29" anywhere. Neither in homes nor in stores, so if they were sold here they must have been very rare.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Consumer CRT hunting
PostPosted: Tue Oct 11, 2016 12:09 am 



Joined: 06 Oct 2012
Posts: 931
there isnt a lcd projection tv. they are called DLP and they have their own issues too. but the picture is much better than the old tvs.

reliability is an issue with them. they have moving mechanical parts inside.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Consumer CRT hunting
PostPosted: Tue Oct 11, 2016 5:54 am 



Joined: 04 Sep 2010
Posts: 1777
Location: Denmark
There certainly were LCD RP televisions. The earliest two technologies were CRT, followed by LCD, and the one my friend had had been made in the late 90's or early 2000's. So it had to have been one of the two. I suspect it was LCD.

Newer tech like DLP, LCoS etc. hit the market later.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Consumer CRT hunting
PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2016 12:19 am 



Joined: 06 Oct 2012
Posts: 931
LCD projection? weird. seems like the two dont go together. how do they get the light to pass through the lcd to project it?

you are right, kamiboy. I googled it. It works kinda like a dlp tv except the chip is an transparent LCD instead of a chip with hundreds of small mirrors like dlp is.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Consumer CRT hunting
PostPosted: Sun Oct 16, 2016 2:16 am 



Joined: 07 Oct 2015
Posts: 80
I worked with a few LCD projectors in the mid-90s. They were VERY expensive, but the quality was decent for the time and they didn't have the bulk or convergence issues of a 3-CRT unit. Quite a few of them could do 15khz RGB input too. They still make them for home theater use, but DLP rules the low end of the market now.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Consumer CRT hunting
PostPosted: Fri Oct 21, 2016 3:58 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 16 Feb 2005
Posts: 877
Calling MKL!

Anyone know if there's a consumer television with a Mitsubishi A63LCC11X compatible tube for a Nanao MS8-26SU chassis? What's the correct European size for this, 25" or 26"?


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Consumer CRT hunting
PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2016 12:31 am 



Joined: 02 Feb 2005
Posts: 242
nem wrote:
Calling MKL!

Anyone know if there's a consumer television with a Mitsubishi A63LCC11X compatible tube for a Nanao MS8-26SU chassis? What's the correct European size for this, 25" or 26"?


MS8-26 tubes are pretty unique in that they have a low impedence horizontal yoke and a very high impedance vertical yoke. You're not going to find a TV tube with these specs. And in any case TVs with 26" tubes in Europe are old and hard to find because this size went out of production in the 1980s when 25" and 28" were introduced (the same happened to 22" replaced by 21"). Things were different in the US where 26" TVs (called 25" there because of the visible screen size) were very popular even in the 90s and 2000s.

Bottom line, a replacement tube (complete with yoke) for a MS8-26 can only come from another MS8-26.
_________________
Im running games with a vga to tv converter on my Shangai Novel, with composite and it looks amazing, Im not interested in RGB or Scart.

- Anonymous on Facebook


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Consumer CRT hunting
PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2016 12:03 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 16 Feb 2005
Posts: 877
I probably should have specified that I can pull the yoke off the original tube, so that's not an issue. However, you don't think finding a replacement tube will be possible?


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Consumer CRT hunting
PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2016 5:13 pm 



Joined: 02 Feb 2005
Posts: 242
nem wrote:
However, you don't think finding a replacement tube will be possible?


It depends on your options but I wouldn't be optimist at all. In the last five years I have opened up almost 6000 TVs at my local recycling center and I've found practically everything, even the uber rare sizes like 18" but only like a dozen or so. And about 100 26" but these were almost all from a brand that was manufactured in my own city hence very popular here. I'll show you one of these TVs:

Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image

Not bad for an almost 30 year old TV that had never been serviced/recapped. Anyway the tube in this (Videocolor A67-) is the only one that could be used for a MS8 yoke swap. Other 26" tubes like Philips ones wouldn't fit the MS8 neckboard at all and are useless. So in the end you'd be looking for a 30 year old TV with wood grain sides that hopefully has the correct tube type and is still in good condition. Not impossible but chances are slim. And be careful when checking TV ads on online marketplaces: people often have no clue about sizes and just throw random numbers so something advertised as 26" may actually be somthing else.
_________________
Im running games with a vga to tv converter on my Shangai Novel, with composite and it looks amazing, Im not interested in RGB or Scart.

- Anonymous on Facebook


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Consumer CRT hunting
PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2016 6:44 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 16 Feb 2005
Posts: 877
Challenge accepted :wink:

Thank you for the really great info!


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Consumer CRT hunting
PostPosted: Thu Nov 24, 2016 4:08 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 31 Oct 2016
Posts: 166
Location: n/america
kamiboy wrote:
Image


Is that an MSX?


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Consumer CRT hunting
PostPosted: Thu Nov 24, 2016 5:06 pm 



Joined: 04 Sep 2010
Posts: 1777
Location: Denmark
Yes, an MSX 2+


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Consumer CRT hunting
PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2016 5:28 am 


User avatar

Joined: 31 Oct 2016
Posts: 166
Location: n/america
kamiboy wrote:
Yes, an MSX 2+


Sweet. I've always wanted to play metal gear on one of those things.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Consumer CRT hunting
PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2016 9:38 am 



Joined: 04 Sep 2010
Posts: 1777
Location: Denmark
The Meal Gear games, as with anything else worth playing on that platform, such as Akumajo Dracula, are MSX2 games. MSX2 systems can be had for next to nothing on Yahoo auctions, and there are many models to choose from. Your options narrow on the further revisions. Once you get into MSX2+ territory, and prices go up, and the Turbo R of which there are only two revisions, both from Panasonic, cost a fortune and are generally not worth the price increase over a 2+ for the budget minded shopper. Very few games support the Turbo R features anyway.

The Metal Gear games themselves are one of the more desired games on the platform so getting a physical copy will cost you a small fortune, and you won't be able to enjoy them unless you are fluent in Japanese. They are Kojima games after all. There are translation patches available but playing them would either require playing floppy disk images, plus a ram upgrade mod on your machine, or just a flash cart solution.

The flash cart solution is the more sensible way to go as then you can play all the games on the system upon paying a lump sum.

Since the MSX is a PC platform there are of course a couple of potential headaches, such as for an example the curious case of FM music expansions. Other than the built in PSG sound, the same mostly horrendous sound chip found in the Master System, some games support one of several FM expansion modules. The two most popular are MSX Audio, and MSX Music. Some machines come with one built in, but they are also available as expansion carts.

Some Konagi games actually come with their own music module built into the cart, so they will have great music capability no matter which machine you play them on. Overall I'd say the platform is worth investing in even though most games are very janky due to the limitations fo the platform there are nonetheless some gems here and there. They all cost a pretty penny to own an actual physical copy of tough.

But if you are just looking to play the original Metal Gear games I'd say getting a PS2 copy of Snake Eater and playing the translated emulations on there as a bonus is the easiest option.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Consumer CRT hunting
PostPosted: Sun Nov 27, 2016 11:22 pm 



Joined: 20 Oct 2016
Posts: 22
kamiboy wrote:
The Meal Gear games ...

But if you are just looking to play the original Metal Gear games I'd say getting a PS2 copy of Snake Eater and playing the translated emulations on there as a bonus is the easiest option.


I would also suggest grabbing the HD collection on Vita as they are included in that copy of Snake Eater as well, and look decent on the portable screen.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Consumer CRT hunting
PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2016 4:26 am 


User avatar

Joined: 31 Oct 2016
Posts: 166
Location: n/america
kamiboy wrote:
The Meal Gear games, as with anything else worth playing on that platform, such as Akumajo Dracula, are MSX2 games. MSX2 systems can be had for next to nothing on Yahoo auctions, and there are many models to choose from. Your options narrow on the further revisions. Once you get into MSX2+ territory, and prices go up, and the Turbo R of which there are only two revisions, both from Panasonic, cost a fortune and are generally not worth the price increase over a 2+ for the budget minded shopper. Very few games support the Turbo R features anyway.

The Metal Gear games themselves are one of the more desired games on the platform so getting a physical copy will cost you a small fortune, and you won't be able to enjoy them unless you are fluent in Japanese. They are Kojima games after all. There are translation patches available but playing them would either require playing floppy disk images, plus a ram upgrade mod on your machine, or just a flash cart solution.

The flash cart solution is the more sensible way to go as then you can play all the games on the system upon paying a lump sum.

Since the MSX is a PC platform there are of course a couple of potential headaches, such as for an example the curious case of FM music expansions. Other than the built in PSG sound, the same mostly horrendous sound chip found in the Master System, some games support one of several FM expansion modules. The two most popular are MSX Audio, and MSX Music. Some machines come with one built in, but they are also available as expansion carts.

Some Konagi games actually come with their own music module built into the cart, so they will have great music capability no matter which machine you play them on. Overall I'd say the platform is worth investing in even though most games are very janky due to the limitations fo the platform there are nonetheless some gems here and there. They all cost a pretty penny to own an actual physical copy of tough.

But if you are just looking to play the original Metal Gear games I'd say getting a PS2 copy of Snake Eater and playing the translated emulations on there as a bonus is the easiest option.


Awesome. Thanks fort the info. :)

I think I'll stick with the snake eater version at this point. I have other fish to fry at the moment. But I'm jealous. It should be enjoyed on the original system I think.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Consumer CRT hunting
PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2016 5:19 pm 



Joined: 29 Nov 2016
Posts: 29
Hello all, new here, been lurking for a while.

I own several professional / broadcast monitors, including the coveted Sony BVM-D32E1WU. But honestly, a SD Sony WEGA consumer set with component inputs looks fantastic, and is all you need. Just use a good RGB -> Component transcoder and you're set, no need to buy the high end monitors IMO.

I wish I had known this before spending thousands on my other displays. I picked my 36" WEGA *last*, AFTER buying the pro monitors....I saw it was free on CL...and figured what the heck, I'll try it. And frankly, I enjoy playing on it more than the BVM-D32E1WU!

Here is an example:

http://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/ele/5892086558.html


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Consumer CRT hunting
PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2016 9:24 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 31 Oct 2016
Posts: 166
Location: n/america
While I agree that consumer sets can look good, and you certainly stand to get a good value for more screen real-estate, there is a different look to a PRO monitor that some people want. You are clearly not the target audience for broadcast monitors, and you should probably release your stash back into the wild where rabid PVM fans will no-doubt be pleased to find them.

But you bring up a fantastic point. There are many people for whom the difference between a good consumer set and a broadcast monitor is unimportant, and those people may not realize it until after they have sunk funds into special stuff because of perceived hype. For others, the knowledge that there are more lines of resolution on their monitors may be all they need to satisfy their purchases.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Consumer CRT hunting
PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2016 10:54 pm 



Joined: 29 Nov 2016
Posts: 29
vol.2 wrote:
While I agree that consumer sets can look good, and you certainly stand to get a good value for more screen real-estate, there is a different look to a PRO monitor that some people want. You are clearly not the target audience for broadcast monitors, and you should probably release your stash back into the wild where rabid PVM fans will no-doubt be pleased to find them.

But you bring up a fantastic point. There are many people for whom the difference between a good consumer set and a broadcast monitor is unimportant, and those people may not realize it until after they have sunk funds into special stuff because of perceived hype. For others, the knowledge that there are more lines of resolution on their monitors may be all they need to satisfy their purchases.


Yes I agree, I will be selling off most of my pro monitors. The image quality is top notch, but SD WEGA with good RGB -> component comes pretty close. Not to mention 36", I can sit on the couch and play :-) The WEGA built in speakers sound damn good... and... FREE. Last I checked the 20" BVMs are going for about 800+.

I originally thought I needed the pro monitors because all the consumer SD sets I was coming across has S-Video at best. The quality of that image is below my threshold of acceptable. It wasn't until later I discovered the SD WEGA's with component. :-( Should have done more research.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Consumer CRT hunting
PostPosted: Fri Dec 16, 2016 7:41 am 


User avatar

Joined: 28 Jan 2005
Posts: 1241
Location: USH
I had the urge to save a discarded CRT and picked up a Sylvania 6427gg on trash day. It has svideo and component inputs (and built-in ATSC tuner). At first it wouldn't power on, but I guess that wasn't the only issue as the picture is also FU...
http://www.hyakushiki.net/misc/img_0662.jpg


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Consumer CRT hunting
PostPosted: Fri Dec 16, 2016 7:25 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 08 Mar 2015
Posts: 1937
Location: Québec City
Damn that's too bad :(

I commend you for trying to save a CRT though!


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Consumer CRT hunting
PostPosted: Fri Dec 16, 2016 10:52 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 01 Sep 2015
Posts: 255
Location: New York
I just picked up a kv-27fv310. Can't wait to get a RGB to component converter... and probably will sell my pvm 20l5


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Consumer CRT hunting
PostPosted: Fri Dec 16, 2016 11:10 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 12 Mar 2014
Posts: 763
Location: California, USA
Nice, how does the geometry look? That one has two s-video and component ports if I'm correct which comes in handy. The FV series are really nice but tend to have a strong red push so calibrating tint is tough.
_________________
Framemeister 240p scanline settings: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=33450&start=9600


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Consumer CRT hunting
PostPosted: Sat Dec 17, 2016 12:07 am 


User avatar

Joined: 01 Sep 2015
Posts: 255
Location: New York
Not sure yet! Haven't hooked any systems up since they're all already hooked up with my pvm. I need to find the matching stand for this monster. Lugged it into my house alone and god did that suck.

austin532 wrote:
Nice, how does the geometry look? That one has two s-video and component ports if I'm correct which comes in handy. The FV series are really nice but tend to have a strong red push so calibrating tint is tough.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Consumer CRT hunting
PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2016 7:02 pm 



Joined: 30 Dec 2014
Posts: 443
Denver, Colorado members heads up

Sony KV-24FV300 for free!
http://denver.craigslist.org/ele/5894673747.html

Hope you aren't too late.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Consumer CRT hunting
PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2016 7:05 pm 



Joined: 07 Apr 2016
Posts: 831
Location: Ohio
Good luck anyone on here who lives close by.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Consumer CRT hunting
PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2016 7:53 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 08 Mar 2015
Posts: 1937
Location: Québec City
There are two 24fv300 in Montréal :

http://www.kijiji.ca/v-tvs/ville-de-montreal/tv-sony-wega-24-po/1224613049?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true
http://www.kijiji.ca/v-tvs/ouest-de-lile-qc/a-vendre-television-sony-wega-trinitron/1223917640?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true

And also two 27" JVC with 700 TVL and component input (AV-27D201) :
http://www.kijiji.ca/v-tvs/ouest-de-lile-qc/tv-jvc-av-27d201-27-with-stand-great-conditio/1224350825?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true
http://www.kijiji.ca/v-tvs/laval-rive-nord/televiseur-jvc-27-et-mitsubishi-13/1173909778


Last edited by FinalBaton on Thu Dec 22, 2016 1:55 am, edited 2 times in total.

Top
 Offline Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 106 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: doonut, Exabot [Bot], Spacemonkey and 11 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Space Pilot 3K template by Jakob Persson
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group