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 Post subject: Re: Nintendo 64 RGB Blur fixing
PostPosted: Fri Jun 30, 2017 12:18 am 



Joined: 24 Jun 2017
Posts: 14
GeneraLight wrote:
So the HD Retrovision SNES cables only accept composite sync? Not pure sync?

What does that mean for RGB-modded N64s? They only output composite sync?


Hi GeneralLight! As borti4938 said earlier on this topic:

borti4938 wrote:
The sync part of the signals are identical. So the HD retrovidision cables should be work together with #CS75, too.


With that in mind, any sync signal should work with HD Retrovision cables, but they should be installed at pin 9 of the multi-out, where lies the CVIDEO output from the N64.


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 Post subject: Re: Nintendo 64 RGB Blur fixing
PostPosted: Mon Jul 03, 2017 7:03 am 


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sonicjhn wrote:
Sorry about my dumb question, but what is "power input filtering"? How can I add that into Tim's N64RGB board?


You may want to read through this informal page: https://www.altera.com/support/support- ... grity.html

So the simplest thing you can do is to add a 100uF ceramic or tantalum capacitor at the 3.3V input of the board (between 3.3V and GND). In addition you could also add a 10uH inductor in series.
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 Post subject: Re: Nintendo 64 RGB Blur fixing
PostPosted: Sun Jul 09, 2017 9:03 pm 


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tjstogy wrote:
Borti how about start, Z, and L shoulder for reset? Nice and simple, and won’t hit by accident.

Edit: and for de blur you could use start, z, and R shoulder button. The more likely of the two to be pressed accidentally (but still highly unlikely) and if you did, you won’t do anything catastrophic... plus easy to remember/execute.


I haven't forgot about that. :)
I was working on something different meanwhile...

Spoiler: show
Image

Image


However, going back to the button combinations.
One the one hand I think it would be nice to have it equivalent with the UltraHDMI (A+B+Z+St+R). But on the other hand I ask myself 'Why? I was the first.' :roll:

So: are there any other suggestions here?
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 Post subject: Re: Nintendo 64 RGB Blur fixing
PostPosted: Sun Jul 09, 2017 10:10 pm 


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Borti what is that??

Btw - that’s a lot of buttons for a combination. I still vote for mine :)


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 Post subject: Re: Nintendo 64 RGB Blur fixing
PostPosted: Sun Jul 09, 2017 11:15 pm 


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borti4938 wrote:
tjstogy wrote:
Borti how about start, Z, and L shoulder for reset? Nice and simple, and won’t hit by accident.

Edit: and for de blur you could use start, z, and R shoulder button. The more likely of the two to be pressed accidentally (but still highly unlikely) and if you did, you won’t do anything catastrophic... plus easy to remember/execute.


I haven't forgot about that. :)
I was working on something different meanwhile...

Spoiler: show
Image

Image

Nice work Borti! Looks like you managed to get 31Khz Component video output working with your new board design :D
(I'm curious as to why the OSSC identifies the signal as 526p though?!)


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 Post subject: Re: Nintendo 64 RGB Blur fixing
PostPosted: Sun Jul 09, 2017 11:45 pm 


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All three triggers (R, L, Z) is my suggestion because no game will use it and it has to be deliberately done with an awkward setup.


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 Post subject: Re: Nintendo 64 RGB Blur fixing
PostPosted: Mon Jul 10, 2017 12:04 am 


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Einzelherz wrote:
All three triggers (R, L, Z) is my suggestion because no game will use it and it has to be deliberately done with an awkward setup.

Well, its not so awkward to press all three triggers at once if you use a Hori mini pad! In fact it would be fairly easy to accidentally press all three triggers :(

I would guess whatever combination is chosen will need to use Z+Start as a base, then at least two additional buttons from either the left or right 'handles'.

So perhaps something like:-
Z+St+L+D-pad left = reset
Z+St+R+C-right= de-blur

...But this then begs the question - are we perhaps just trying to use a different reset combination to the UltraHDMI (Z+St+R+A+B) just for the sake of being different? :?


Last edited by Link83 on Mon Jul 10, 2017 6:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Nintendo 64 RGB Blur fixing
PostPosted: Mon Jul 10, 2017 12:17 am 



Joined: 31 Mar 2016
Posts: 86
^^
It's easy to press those buttons on the Hori gamepad, but most games were designed with the original gamepad in mind and those 3 buttons would not be pressed accidentally while actually playing.

I do agree with you that it's pointless being different from the UltraHDMI just for the sake of it.

That said I did bring up this issue not for the DeBlur On/Off but for the in-game system reset which can be accidentally triggered by games that use the D-Pad & L button instead of the analog stick & Z button.


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 Post subject: Re: Nintendo 64 RGB Blur fixing
PostPosted: Mon Jul 10, 2017 12:56 am 


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CobraKing wrote:
^^
It's easy to press those buttons on the Hori gamepad, but most games were designed with the original gamepad in mind and those 3 buttons would not be pressed accidentally while actually playing.

Hmm, but with the Hori mini pad you can accidentally press all three trigger buttons, since there is a Z button on both sides:-
http://images.nintendolife.com/news/201 ... /large.jpg
So for instance if you were playing GoldenEye and using the R trigger to aim, and the Z trigger to fire, then in the heat of a firefight accidentally pressed the L trigger aswell then you would end up resetting the system. I know its not easy to press L+R+Z on the standard controller, but i'm sure there are alot of people who prefer to use the Hori mini pad for its more durable analog stick.

CobraKing wrote:
That said I did bring up this issue not for the DeBlur On/Off but for the in-game system reset which can be accidentally triggered by games that use the D-Pad & L button instead of the analog stick & Z button.

Sorry, I thought the request was for new button combinations for both reset and deblur.


Last edited by Link83 on Mon Jul 10, 2017 1:28 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Nintendo 64 RGB Blur fixing
PostPosted: Mon Jul 10, 2017 1:07 am 



Joined: 07 Apr 2016
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Speaking of the Hori gamepad...how good is it for N64 games? Is the analog stick accurate?


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 Post subject: Re: Nintendo 64 RGB Blur fixing
PostPosted: Mon Jul 10, 2017 1:16 am 


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It's not accurate- I forget which article I was reading but it was on the n64forever forum--- someone tested the parameters of all the available controllers to test against the official, including aftermarket joystick replacements. The consensus was that nothing was accurate to the original.

GeneraLight wrote:
Speaking of the Hori gamepad...how good is it for N64 games? Is the analog stick accurate?


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 Post subject: Re: Nintendo 64 RGB Blur fixing
PostPosted: Mon Jul 10, 2017 1:19 am 



Joined: 31 Mar 2016
Posts: 86
^^
No worries - the Hori pad is quite interesting and I can see your concern too. Having to Pause the game via Start should mitigate any risk of accidentally triggering the In-game reset.

@borti4938, when you can spare a moment could you please consider including the Start button for all the different on/off combinations and the in-game reset? Likelihood of accidentally triggering the above is next to nothing unless the game required some advanced button combinations while paused as part of gameplay! :mrgreen:


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 Post subject: Re: Nintendo 64 RGB Blur fixing
PostPosted: Mon Jul 10, 2017 1:42 am 



Joined: 07 Apr 2016
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Honestly, I want a Hori minipad for the ergonomic design. Maybe I should look into frankensteining an N64 controller with a GameCube controller.


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 Post subject: Re: Nintendo 64 RGB Blur fixing
PostPosted: Mon Jul 10, 2017 7:12 am 


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Link83 wrote:
I would guess whatever combination is chosen will need to use Z+Start as a base, then at least two additional buttons from either left the left or right 'handles'.

So perhaps something like:-
Z+St+L+D-pad left = reset
Z+St+R+C-right= de-blur


Might be difficult to make everybody happy :D
Personally I don't want to have the Start-Button included. Many other do. So I will implement an alternative scheme. I will also remove the 'magic' numbers from the source such that everybody (who even don't understand the source) can implement their own button combinations by just changing certain 'readable' line: e.g.

Code:
parameter btn_reset     = `Z + `St + `R + `A + `B
parameter btn_deblur_on = `Z + `St + `R + `Cl


building his own firmware. I may also offer to send me the appropriate lines via Email or GitHub to me such that I can quickly build the firmware.

Edit: initial commit; readme as well as the first examples will follow :)
Next edit: Alternative FW-Builds and additional readme :)

Link83 wrote:
...But this then begs the question - are we perhaps just trying to use a different reset combination to the UltraHDMI (Z+St+R+A+B) just for the sake of being different? :?

Was not really serious :)
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Last edited by borti4938 on Mon Jul 10, 2017 9:02 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Nintendo 64 RGB Blur fixing
PostPosted: Mon Jul 10, 2017 7:16 am 


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Link83 wrote:
Nice work Borti! Looks like you managed to get 31Khz Component video output working with your new board design :D
(I'm curious as to why the OSSC identifies the signal as 526p though?!)


Obviously the same as mikejmoffit implemented. :)

The 240p signal has 263 lines; a 480p signal has 525 lines overall. (240p and 480p is related to the visible lines)
The OSSC shows 526p because I simply linedouble the image from 240p to 480p which gives 526 lines :)
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 Post subject: Re: Nintendo 64 RGB Blur fixing
PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 1:58 pm 



Joined: 07 Apr 2016
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Any plans on implementing S-Video colors?


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 Post subject: Re: Nintendo 64 RGB Blur fixing
PostPosted: Sat Jul 15, 2017 3:55 am 


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GeneraLight wrote:
Any plans on implementing S-Video colors?

What does this mean? Over/Under saturation?


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 Post subject: Re: Nintendo 64 RGB Blur fixing
PostPosted: Sat Jul 15, 2017 4:07 am 



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mikejmoffitt wrote:
GeneraLight wrote:
Any plans on implementing S-Video colors?

What does this mean? Over/Under saturation?

I've heard that S-Video outputs more vibrant colors than RGB.


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 Post subject: Re: Nintendo 64 RGB Blur fixing
PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 6:07 am 


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My comment in another thread:

borti4938 wrote:
White is white - all bits in the digital color vectors are set to one here. In the digital way there is no way to further 'boost' them.

What you can try to do with viletims board:
If you have caps inside your RGB cable, just remove them. They are not needed and may reduce the contrast a bit.

Also, you have R49, R50 and R51 on viletims board. These are 270 ohm resistors, which are unfortunately not labeled but luckely the only 270ohm ones.

These resistors together with the R2R ladder gives a Upp of 0.696V, which is below standard (0.714V in US) but normally close enough.
You can replace them with 280ohm resistors which gives you 0.716V.
If you want to overshoot the standard a bit more to saturate earlier, you may also want to use 290ohm or 300ohm resistors (giving you Upp=0.756V)


I would be also curious to see some comparision shots!
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 Post subject: Re: Nintendo 64 RGB Blur fixing
PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 3:40 pm 



Joined: 31 Mar 2016
Posts: 86
@borti4938, any word on what your final button combination for the in-game-reset will be? :?:


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 Post subject: Re: Nintendo 64 RGB Blur fixing
PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 9:09 pm 


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https://github.com/borti4938/n64rgb/blo ... .README.md

borti4938 wrote:
Personally I don't want to have the Start-Button included. Many other do. So I will implement an alternative scheme. I will also remove the 'magic' numbers from the source such that everybody (who even don't understand the source) can implement their own button combinations by just changing certain 'readable' line: e.g.

Code:
parameter btn_reset     = `Z + `St + `R + `A + `B
parameter btn_deblur_on = `Z + `St + `R + `Cl


building his own firmware. I may also offer to send me the appropriate lines via Email or GitHub to me such that I can quickly build the firmware.

Edit: initial commit; readme as well as the first examples will follow :)
Next edit: Alternative FW-Builds and additional readme :)


Quite funny: I tested a new combination for the reset (same as used with the UltraHDMI) and it needed me 2 minutes to falsely trigger a reset (in Mario Kart 64).

BR
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 Post subject: Re: Nintendo 64 RGB Blur fixing
PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 10:38 pm 



Joined: 31 Mar 2016
Posts: 86
^
@borti4938, thanks for the prompt reply. Would it be possible to have a firmware that didn't have the in-game-reset? FWIW, your button combinations for De-Blue ON/OFF and the 15bit colour aren't intrusive at all and have no impact to gameplay if toggled on/off accidentally.

Everyone else, is there a general consensus on a button combination that won't accidentally trigger the in-game-reset? I thought @Link83's suggestions were quite decent:

Z+St+L+D-pad left = reset
Z+St+R+C-right= de-blur


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 Post subject: Re: Nintendo 64 RGB Blur fixing
PostPosted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 3:18 pm 



Joined: 07 Aug 2006
Posts: 418
Location: Sydney, Australia
borti4938 wrote:
My comment in another thread:

borti4938 wrote:
White is white - all bits in the digital color vectors are set to one here. In the digital way there is no way to further 'boost' them.

What you can try to do with viletims board:
If you have caps inside your RGB cable, just remove them. They are not needed and may reduce the contrast a bit.

Also, you have R49, R50 and R51 on viletims board. These are 270 ohm resistors, which are unfortunately not labeled but luckely the only 270ohm ones.

These resistors together with the R2R ladder gives a Upp of 0.696V, which is below standard (0.714V in US) but normally close enough.
You can replace them with 280ohm resistors which gives you 0.716V.
If you want to overshoot the standard a bit more to saturate earlier, you may also want to use 290ohm or 300ohm resistors (giving you Upp=0.756V)


I would be also curious to see some comparision shots!


I forgot about the component overlay. I've just uploaded it here.

I use the PAL (and VGA) standard for video which is 0.700 Vpp into 75 ohms. Sync is 0.300 Vpp. NTSC video is 0.714 for video 0.286 for sync, derived from a fraction or something silly like that. They shunned RGB video so it's irrelevant.


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 Post subject: Re: Nintendo 64 RGB Blur fixing
PostPosted: Fri Jul 21, 2017 4:07 pm 


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just a few questions.

I've been thinking about taking the plunge with RGB modding my n64. moders in my area change around $40 for an RGB install but its the old style (so I have to ask if they would install tim's board) is this modified version still being developed? or is it at a stable point that it can be purchased by novices like myself?

will it need firmware updates? and if so how are the updates applied? is the de-blur function comparable to the ultra hdmi 64?


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 Post subject: Re: Nintendo 64 RGB Blur fixing
PostPosted: Fri Jul 21, 2017 6:54 pm 



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Blair wrote:
just a few questions.

I've been thinking about taking the plunge with RGB modding my n64. moders in my area change around $40 for an RGB install but its the old style (so I have to ask if they would install tim's board) is this modified version still being developed? or is it at a stable point that it can be purchased by novices like myself?

will it need firmware updates? and if so how are the updates applied? is the de-blur function comparable to the ultra hdmi 64?


The current iteration of Tim's RGB board can be updated with @borti4938's firmware.

@leonk in Toronto, Canada did the install for me and he works on consoles sent to him from all over the world. He installed a JTAG connector which in turn connects to an Altera USB blaster clone. The update process is quite easy and look for @citrus3000psi's post on page 22 of this thread for detailed stepst on what you need to do in order to update the firmware.

The De-Blur function is quite sublime and noticeable (at least for me on my 40" Sony with OSSC X2). You have to pay attention to what type of game it is your playing as De-Blur ON can make games that don't require it look worse. There was also some discussion that the current in-game-reset button combination could be triggered accidentally however there's no word yet on what the final button combination will be.


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 Post subject: Re: Nintendo 64 RGB Blur fixing
PostPosted: Sat Jul 22, 2017 1:02 am 


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Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought there was a firmware that didn't include the reset functionality? Or maybe it was just that you don't hook up a wire that enables it?


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 Post subject: Re: Nintendo 64 RGB Blur fixing
PostPosted: Sat Jul 22, 2017 1:14 pm 


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There won't be a "final" set of button combinations! Read through this readme:
https://github.com/borti4938/n64rgb/blo ... .README.md
I linked that above, too.

If someone don't want to have the reset functionality, just leave out the wire to reset (PIF-NUS pin 27). This is also stated in a readme: https://github.com/borti4938/n64rgb/blo ... /README.md
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 Post subject: Re: Nintendo 64 RGB Blur fixing
PostPosted: Sat Jul 22, 2017 6:02 pm 



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Is is possible for a higher quality RGB board to come out?


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 Post subject: Re: Nintendo 64 RGB Blur fixing
PostPosted: Sat Jul 22, 2017 6:16 pm 


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Define "higher quality", please :)

At the moment I wait for the final prototype of my 'N64 Advanced', which will have linedoubling and Component output among others.
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 Post subject: Re: Nintendo 64 RGB Blur fixing
PostPosted: Sat Jul 22, 2017 8:36 pm 



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borti4938 wrote:
Define "higher quality", please :)

At the moment I wait for the final prototype of my 'N64 Advanced', which will have linedoubling and Component output among others.

Better RGB output

Better amp or RGB card or whatever


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