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 Post subject: Re: Nintendo 64 RGB Blur fixing
PostPosted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 4:53 pm 


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No...? Why would you? The hd retrovision cables expect composite video sync, not csync.


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 Post subject: Re: Nintendo 64 RGB Blur fixing
PostPosted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 4:56 pm 



Joined: 24 Jun 2017
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Guspaz wrote:
No...? Why would you? The hd retrovision cables expect composite video sync, not csync.


So what do you recommend to my case?


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 Post subject: Re: Nintendo 64 RGB Blur fixing
PostPosted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 5:03 pm 



Joined: 13 Mar 2011
Posts: 887
Location: Toronto, Canada
Guspaz wrote:
No...? Why would you? The hd retrovision cables expect composite video sync, not csync.


If a console has RGB out (a requirement for these cables to work) then there is very high likelihood that CSYNC is also available. I believe RetroRGB has shown that in some cases (Genesis?) comp video is known to generate artifacts in the RGB output that CSYNC does not.

One would imagine then that CSYNC rather than CVIDEO will be the sync method of choice for these cables.


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 Post subject: Re: Nintendo 64 RGB Blur fixing
PostPosted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 5:08 pm 



Joined: 13 Mar 2011
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sonicjhn wrote:
Guspaz wrote:
No...? Why would you? The hd retrovision cables expect composite video sync, not csync.


So what do you recommend to my case?


I looked at FAQ on HD Retrovision. They get sync from composite video. They also "extract" sync from the comp video (this suggest that they might be using a sync stripper). There's not much you can do except contact them directly for support.


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 Post subject: Re: Nintendo 64 RGB Blur fixing
PostPosted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 6:36 pm 



Joined: 05 Dec 2012
Posts: 333
The HDR's get sync from cvbs (composite video), but it's pulled right at that switchbox. As a result, there's not enough wire length for the interference to appear. The reasoning was that every console has cvbs, but not all have csync.

To the person who's image is shifted: It would be much better to try tweaking the settings on the TV first, then cutting and moving sync around.


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 Post subject: Re: Nintendo 64 RGB Blur fixing
PostPosted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 6:43 pm 


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leonk wrote:
If a console has RGB out (a requirement for these cables to work) then there is very high likelihood that CSYNC is also available.


I mean, I just gave you a bunch of examples where this is not the case. Say, virtually all Nintendo RGB consoles in Europe... Your proposed approach would require two different versions of each cable (one for consoles with csync, one without), and that proposed approach would not have any advantages or any noticeable difference to the end-user. The display isn't going to see composite video sync, so any issues those displays might have with cvbs sync is kind of moot.


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 Post subject: Re: Nintendo 64 RGB Blur fixing
PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 5:03 am 



Joined: 25 Jan 2016
Posts: 28
sonicjhn wrote:
What's up guys? I've installed the N64RGB board on my console yesterday, but I'm getting a picture with a weird artifact that looks like interference.

See video: https://youtu.be/waY7_m_Id6s

Can someone help me?


This is the problem I also have. I've tried dozens of suggestions and repeated the installation from the ground up many times. If you find a solution, let me know. I've tried almost every different sync combination imaginable with 3 different cables, so I really doubt it's a sync issue.


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 Post subject: Re: Nintendo 64 RGB Blur fixing
PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 5:06 am 



Joined: 24 Jun 2017
Posts: 14
ajdesmarais wrote:
sonicjhn wrote:
What's up guys? I've installed the N64RGB board on my console yesterday, but I'm getting a picture with a weird artifact that looks like interference.

See video: https://youtu.be/waY7_m_Id6s

Can someone help me?


This is the problem I also have. I've tried dozens of suggestions and repeated the installation from the ground up many times. If you find a solution, let me know. I've tried almost every different sync combination imaginable with 3 different cables, so I really doubt it's a sync issue.


What's your motherboard revision, ajdesmarais?


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 Post subject: Re: Nintendo 64 RGB Blur fixing
PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 6:23 am 


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retrorgb wrote:
The HDR's get sync from cvbs (composite video), but it's pulled right at that switchbox. As a result, there's not enough wire length for the interference to appear. The reasoning was that every console has cvbs, but not all have csync.

To the person who's image is shifted: It would be much better to try tweaking the settings on the TV first, then cutting and moving sync around.


Don't agree: once tweaked you have to jump around two settings if you have other consoles, too.
As outlined here (note no.1) the reason for the shift is that the N64 needs some more pixels to process the image. That's the reason why the picture is shifted if you use RGB from the modding PCB and sync from stock N64 circuit.

If you can live without composit video you can use pin 9 of the MultiAV for #CS75. Personally I use pin 7 (normally luma) to connect #CS75 there.

Guspaz wrote:
No...? Why would you? The hd retrovision cables expect composite video sync, not csync.

The sync part of the signals are identical. So the HD retrovidision cables should be work together with #CS75, too.
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 Post subject: Re: Nintendo 64 RGB Blur fixing
PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 7:46 pm 



Joined: 31 Mar 2016
Posts: 85
@borti4938

Thank you for releasing your firmware for Tim's N64RGB board, the visuals are really top notch.

I still don't have your latest firmware version of the De-Blur+IGR (as I haven't received my JTAG programmer yet) so I caught the bug below with the De-Blur+IGR firmware one release prior to current. If anyone else could test the below and comment if it has been fixed on your most current firmware that would be great!

Game: WWF No Mercy (NTSC)
Setup: N64 (NTSC) RGB flashed with your De-Blur+IGR firmware one release prior to current
Connected via: OSSC (0.77 firmware) via DVI-to-HDMI to a 2011 Sony 1080P TV that can only accept Line2X from the OSSC
OSSC Options: Everything left at default 0.77 firmware options except: Output set to 'HDMI', HDMI ITC ON & Scanlines 25%

With De-Blur ON the wrestler names (under the spirit/attitude meters) appear garbled. When you toggle between De-Blur ON/OFF it looks like the image shifts slightly with De-Blur OFF generating the sharpest looking wrestler names. I did notice this when a match actually starts and the wrestler names are displayed on screen.
____________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Also @borti4938, this game and all the AKI wrestling games for the N64 use the D pad, L, R, A, B and C buttons quite extensively while the analog stick and Z are sparingly used. D pad is used for movement, A for Grapple, B for strike, L+R for evade/block and C for run, focus, etc... One major issue is that while playing I found myself resetting the console with your IGR reset combo: A + B + D-Pad dw + D-Pad ri + L + R

Would it by any chance be possible to have the reset combo and perhaps some of the other ON/OFF combos be changed to something a bit harder? With N64's 3 pronged controller (1-2-3) most games had controls that were 1-2, 1-3 or 2-3 so you could in theory have IGRs that require a controller combination of 1-2-3 (which would be a lot harder to activate while playing).

Many thanks for your contributions as before.


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 Post subject: Re: Nintendo 64 RGB Blur fixing
PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 8:25 pm 



Joined: 24 Jun 2017
Posts: 14
borti4938 wrote:
retrorgb wrote:
The HDR's get sync from cvbs (composite video), but it's pulled right at that switchbox. As a result, there's not enough wire length for the interference to appear. The reasoning was that every console has cvbs, but not all have csync.

To the person who's image is shifted: It would be much better to try tweaking the settings on the TV first, then cutting and moving sync around.


Don't agree: once tweaked you have to jump around two settings if you have other consoles, too.
As outlined here (note no.1) the reason for the shift is that the N64 needs some more pixels to process the image. That's the reason why the picture is shifted if you use RGB from the modding PCB and sync from stock N64 circuit.

If you can live without composit video you can use pin 9 of the MultiAV for #CS75. Personally I use pin 7 (normally luma) to connect #CS75 there.

Guspaz wrote:
No...? Why would you? The hd retrovision cables expect composite video sync, not csync.

The sync part of the signals are identical. So the HD retrovidision cables should be work together with #CS75, too.


You are absolutely right, borti4938! Today my modder has cut the track from composite video and wired the CS75 to the pin 9 and it worked!
Now the horizontal shift problem is gone! I'm getting a centered image again! :D

However, those annoying flickering dots that I've mentioned before are still showing up.
Tim told me that this problem is probably due to a bad connection on one of the data lines connected, and asked me to check D0-D6 for continuity with a multimeter.
My modder did performed this test, and resoldered everything, but the problem is still there.

Any new ideas to fix this issue?


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 Post subject: Re: Nintendo 64 RGB Blur fixing
PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 9:35 pm 



Joined: 13 Mar 2011
Posts: 887
Location: Toronto, Canada
continuity test can sometimes be a crap shoot.

It might be connected barely to pass some of the signal. And then, the leads of the multimeter themselves act as proper connections, so the meter will make you think the connection is good.

Magnification and your brain are the best weapons you have. Use wisely.


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 Post subject: Re: Nintendo 64 RGB Blur fixing
PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 11:01 pm 



Joined: 07 Apr 2016
Posts: 762
Location: Ohio
So when is the controller toggle for de-blur and IGR firmware going to be implemented in Tim's N64RGB board? Not a fan of physical switches at all.


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 Post subject: Re: Nintendo 64 RGB Blur fixing
PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 2:22 am 



Joined: 13 Mar 2011
Posts: 887
Location: Toronto, Canada
GeneraLight wrote:
So when is the controller toggle for de-blur and IGR firmware going to be implemented in Tim's N64RGB board? Not a fan of physical switches at all.


It is. Just flash it with borti's firmware.


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 Post subject: Re: Nintendo 64 RGB Blur fixing
PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 12:10 pm 


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Posts: 191
CobraKing wrote:
Game: WWF No Mercy (NTSC)
Setup: N64 (NTSC) RGB flashed with your De-Blur+IGR firmware one release prior to current
Connected via: OSSC (0.77 firmware) via DVI-to-HDMI to a 2011 Sony 1080P TV that can only accept Line2X from the OSSC
OSSC Options: Everything left at default 0.77 firmware options except: Output set to 'HDMI', HDMI ITC ON & Scanlines 25%

With De-Blur ON the wrestler names (under the spirit/attitude meters) appear garbled. When you toggle between De-Blur ON/OFF it looks like the image shifts slightly with De-Blur OFF generating the sharpest looking wrestler names. I did notice this when a match actually starts and the wrestler names are displayed on screen.


I know about the shift. I variied the delay between sync-info and pixel-values to minimize that. Maybe I also have to consider the outputting phase.
I will have a look into that.

CobraKing wrote:
this game and all the AKI wrestling games for the N64 use the D pad, L, R, A, B and C buttons quite extensively while the analog stick and Z are sparingly used. D pad is used for movement, A for Grapple, B for strike, L+R for evade/block and C for run, focus, etc... One major issue is that while playing I found myself resetting the console with your IGR reset combo: A + B + D-Pad dw + D-Pad ri + L + R

Would it by any chance be possible to have the reset combo and perhaps some of the other ON/OFF combos be changed to something a bit harder? With N64's 3 pronged controller (1-2-3) most games had controls that were 1-2, 1-3 or 2-3 so you could in theory have IGRs that require a controller combination of 1-2-3 (which would be a lot harder to activate while playing).


I will also see, what I can do here. One major problem is that the CPLD is quite full such that a series of button combination might be not fitable in viletims PCB.
What you can do without any problems is to use another controller for the IGR functions. You simply have to connect controller port 4 e.g. instead of port 1.

sonicjhn wrote:
However, those annoying flickering dots that I've mentioned before are still showing up.
Tim told me that this problem is probably due to a bad connection on one of the data lines connected, and asked me to check D0-D6 for continuity with a multimeter.
My modder did performed this test, and resoldered everything, but the problem is still there.

Any new ideas to fix this issue?


Sometimes reflashing the firmware helps. You may also consider adding some power input filtering which is quite weakly implemented on viletims PCB in my point of view.
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 Post subject: Re: Nintendo 64 RGB Blur fixing
PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 1:40 pm 


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CobraKing wrote:
Game: WWF No Mercy (NTSC)
Setup: N64 (NTSC) RGB flashed with your De-Blur+IGR firmware one release prior to current
Connected via: OSSC (0.77 firmware) via DVI-to-HDMI to a 2011 Sony 1080P TV that can only accept Line2X from the OSSC
OSSC Options: Everything left at default 0.77 firmware options except: Output set to 'HDMI', HDMI ITC ON & Scanlines 25%

With De-Blur ON the wrestler names (under the spirit/attitude meters) appear garbled. When you toggle between De-Blur ON/OFF it looks like the image shifts slightly with De-Blur OFF generating the sharpest looking wrestler names. I did notice this when a match actually starts and the wrestler names are displayed on screen.


WWF No Mercy is a 240p game which uses 640pixel wide output. So de-blur has to be switched off :)

A new example for a 640x240 game next to Mario Tennis.

I also found a good solution to remove the slight shift between de-blur on and off. Update on GitHub will follow shortly :)
Edit: GitHub project updated.
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Last edited by borti4938 on Wed Jun 28, 2017 2:15 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Nintendo 64 RGB Blur fixing
PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 1:44 pm 



Joined: 07 Apr 2016
Posts: 762
Location: Ohio
leonk wrote:
GeneraLight wrote:
So when is the controller toggle for de-blur and IGR firmware going to be implemented in Tim's N64RGB board? Not a fan of physical switches at all.


It is. Just flash it with borti's firmware.

...

If I have to flash it, then it's not already on there.


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 Post subject: Re: Nintendo 64 RGB Blur fixing
PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 5:13 pm 



Joined: 31 Mar 2016
Posts: 85
borti4938 wrote:

WWF No Mercy is a 240p game which uses 640pixel wide output. So de-blur has to be switched off :)

A new example for a 640x240 game next to Mario Tennis.

I also found a good solution to remove the slight shift between de-blur on and off. Update on GitHub will follow shortly :)
Edit: GitHub project updated.


@borti4938, thank you for the prompt reply and appreciate your efforts as before.

You can even add WWF Wrestlemania 2000 to the list as it exhibits the same issue with the 'Attitude' meter text being skewed with De-Blur on.

With regards to the control scheme, would it be possible to add the Z button to the combos?

The AKI WWF games for the N64 were one of the better multiplayer titles so it's possible that with 4 players at the same time, any one could trigger the system reset. :(


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 Post subject: Re: Nintendo 64 RGB Blur fixing
PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 6:18 pm 


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GeneraLight wrote:
...

If I have to flash it, then it's not already on there.


I don't see Tim supporting an unofficial firmware and causing headaches for himself with support. I wouldn't hold my breath if I were you- it's super easy to flash the board and USB Blaster clones are less than $5 shipped anyway.

Quote:
With regards to the control scheme, would it be possible to add the Z button to the combos?


I forget the exact control schemes, but wouldn't that be incredibly hard to hit? D-Pad + Z button + C buttons + L/R would require quite the claw grip.


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 Post subject: Re: Nintendo 64 RGB Blur fixing
PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 7:36 pm 



Joined: 31 Mar 2016
Posts: 85
bobrocks95 wrote:

I forget the exact control schemes, but wouldn't that be incredibly hard to hit? D-Pad + Z button + C buttons + L/R would require quite the claw grip.


Yes, it would be quite hard to accidentally trigger the system reset by also having the Z button pressed too.

In terms of difficulty you could use the little finger on either your left or right hand to press Z but it's not something you could accidentally do while gaming. N64 games had controller layouts that favoured you gripping the controller in 1 of 3 ways and most games did not use the D-Pad extensively hence the original button combination schemes (I think :mrgreen: ).


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 Post subject: Re: Nintendo 64 RGB Blur fixing
PostPosted: Thu Jun 29, 2017 6:37 am 


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The question of finding good button combinations is always a trade off between easy to access, easy to remember and hard to accedently triggered.
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 Post subject: Re: Nintendo 64 RGB Blur fixing
PostPosted: Thu Jun 29, 2017 11:15 am 


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All three triggers?


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 Post subject: Re: Nintendo 64 RGB Blur fixing
PostPosted: Thu Jun 29, 2017 12:55 pm 



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Posts: 167
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Or is possible to use an easier combo, but the buttons have to be pressed for x amount of time?


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 Post subject: Re: Nintendo 64 RGB Blur fixing
PostPosted: Thu Jun 29, 2017 2:08 pm 


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This unfortunately does not fit into the CPLD, which is almost full. (Synthesis and Fitter optimised for area)
At least for the 240LEs CPLD as used on viletims board. For this I would have to remove the blur heuristic here.

For the 570LEs CPLD which can be used on my boards this would not be a big deal.
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 Post subject: Re: Nintendo 64 RGB Blur fixing
PostPosted: Thu Jun 29, 2017 4:37 pm 



Joined: 31 Mar 2016
Posts: 85
borti4938 wrote:
This unfortunately does not fit into the CPLD, which is almost full. (Synthesis and Fitter optimised for area)
At least for the 240LEs CPLD as used on viletims board. For this I would have to remove the blur heuristic here.

For the 570LEs CPLD which can be used on my boards this would not be a big deal.


Thanks for the prompt replies @borti4938. Since it's not possible to add the additional Z button to the combination would it be possible to have an IGR firmware that has all the existing button combos except for the SYSTEM RESET? At least those games that use the D-Pad won't accidentally trigger the system reset then.


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 Post subject: Re: Nintendo 64 RGB Blur fixing
PostPosted: Thu Jun 29, 2017 5:30 pm 


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My last post was only related to:
citrus3000psi wrote:
Or is possible to use an easier combo, but the buttons have to be pressed for x amount of time?


I still think about new combinations ;)
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 Post subject: Re: Nintendo 64 RGB Blur fixing
PostPosted: Thu Jun 29, 2017 6:48 pm 



Joined: 31 Mar 2016
Posts: 85
Great thanks!


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 Post subject: Re: Nintendo 64 RGB Blur fixing
PostPosted: Thu Jun 29, 2017 7:46 pm 


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Borti how about start, Z, and L shoulder for reset? Nice and simple, and won’t hit by accident.

Edit: and for de blur you could use start, z, and R shoulder button. The more likely of the two to be pressed accidentally (but still highly unlikely) and if you did, you won’t do anything catastrophic... plus easy to remember/execute.


Last edited by tjstogy on Fri Jun 30, 2017 2:04 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Nintendo 64 RGB Blur fixing
PostPosted: Thu Jun 29, 2017 11:47 pm 



Joined: 07 Apr 2016
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So the HD Retrovision SNES cables only accept composite sync? Not pure sync?

What does that mean for RGB-modded N64s? They only output composite sync?


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 Post subject: Re: Nintendo 64 RGB Blur fixing
PostPosted: Fri Jun 30, 2017 12:13 am 



Joined: 24 Jun 2017
Posts: 14
borti4938 wrote:
sonicjhn wrote:
However, those annoying flickering dots that I've mentioned before are still showing up.
Tim told me that this problem is probably due to a bad connection on one of the data lines connected, and asked me to check D0-D6 for continuity with a multimeter.
My modder did performed this test, and resoldered everything, but the problem is still there.

Any new ideas to fix this issue?


Sometimes reflashing the firmware helps. You may also consider adding some power input filtering which is quite weakly implemented on viletims PCB in my point of view.


Sorry about my dumb question, but what is "power input filtering"? How can I add that into Tim's N64RGB board?


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