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 Post subject: Re: Nintendo 64 RGB Blur fixing
PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2017 6:57 am 



Joined: 30 Nov 2015
Posts: 58
@borti4938:

I have strange issues with your latest firmware for Tim's board. Now that you add the heuristic, when I start for example Super Mario 64, sometimes it changes between de-blur on and off, without doing anything, e.g. at the beginning when you see Press Start blinking in the bottom left corner, it's clearly noticeable that de-blur changes by itself.

Could it be a little bug in the code?

Thanks as always. :)


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 Post subject: Re: Nintendo 64 RGB Blur fixing
PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2017 7:46 am 


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The heuristic depends on the current image content. So it might be the case that the heuristic jumps between on and off even on small changes. Please send me an email with a list of games / scenes where you observe such a behaviour. This helps me to adjust constants!
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 Post subject: Re: Nintendo 64 RGB Blur fixing
PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2017 8:34 am 



Joined: 30 Nov 2015
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borti4938 wrote:
The heuristic depends on the current image content. So it might be the case that the heuristic jumps between on and off even on small changes. Please send me an email with a list of games / scenes where you observe such a behaviour. This helps me to adjust constants!

Well, I certainly could do that, but it requires time and I don't know when I can do these kind of tests. I'll let you know when I have some free time to dedicate to N64. :)

Meanwhile, is it always possible to force de-blur on with L + R + D_pad Right + C_stick right, correct?


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 Post subject: Re: Nintendo 64 RGB Blur fixing
PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2017 8:49 am 


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correct :)
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 Post subject: Re: Nintendo 64 RGB Blur fixing
PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2017 6:13 pm 


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zeruel85 wrote:
Now that you add the heuristic, when I start for example Super Mario 64, sometimes it changes between de-blur on and off, without doing anything, e.g. at the beginning when you see Press Start blinking in the bottom left corner, it's clearly noticeable that de-blur changes by itself.


Yes, I can reproduce the de-blur on and off changes on the SM64 intro especially if the stars are flying around Marios head. I will try to fix that.
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 Post subject: Re: Nintendo 64 RGB Blur fixing
PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2017 7:46 pm 


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Star Fox 64 also has some very small changes in the starfield intro that might trigger a heuristic on occasion as well. I found it was easier to have it default to "de-blur on, unless proven inappropriate." In debugging it, I found visualizing detections (by setting the MSB of one color channel) made it easiest to see where the heuristic was working or failing. After playing with that some more and doing some simple filtering on my trigger signal the false negatives were eliminated. Perfect Dark can be a pain in the ass too.

I've closed my source off because I might plan on actually selling the board, now that I've had a chance to use (and question the value of) the UltraVGA board, which initially discouraged me from bothering.

UltraVGA issues encountered:
* Installation requires you to desolder an FFC connector first
* DAC (ADV7125) is powered from 3.3V, which is not adequately filtered, and a flickering darker section can be seen moving about the screen as load on the 3.3V line varies as the CPU/RCP are utilized differently from frame to frame
* Uses a framebuffer, which seems like an odd choice since we're working with the timing-flexible VGA connection
* Doesn't mount nicely in the system like the UltraHDMI does
* Does not support YPbPr output
* Does not have a 240p mode
* Why are there so many LDOs on board?


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 Post subject: Re: Nintendo 64 RGB Blur fixing
PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2017 8:21 pm 


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mikejmoffitt wrote:
Star Fox 64 also has some very small changes in the starfield intro that might trigger a heuristic on occasion as well.

Well, my first guess felt to light effects due to the flying stars around Marios head in SM64 intro. So this might be correlated.
I finished the implementation of some kind of hold off in the heuristic algorithm to exploit this. Cross fingers that this will work - I will test it during this week.

mikejmoffitt wrote:
UltraVGA issues encountered:
* [some points]
* Why are there so many LDOs on board?

On which board?
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 Post subject: Re: Nintendo 64 RGB Blur fixing
PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2017 9:45 pm 


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borti4938 wrote:
mikejmoffitt wrote:
Star Fox 64 also has some very small changes in the starfield intro that might trigger a heuristic on occasion as well.

Well, my first guess felt to light effects due to the flying stars around Marios head in SM64 intro. So this might be correlated.
I finished the implementation of some kind of hold off in the heuristic algorithm to exploit this. Cross fingers that this will work - I will test it during this week.

mikejmoffitt wrote:
UltraVGA issues encountered:
* [some points]
* Why are there so many LDOs on board?

On which board?

I'm referring to Marshall's UltraVGA kit.


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 Post subject: Re: Nintendo 64 RGB Blur fixing
PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2017 10:52 pm 



Joined: 24 Jun 2015
Posts: 116
3 LDOs doesn't seem like too many to me. I'm using 3 LDOs on a small fpga board, usually need one for the IO banks, another for fpga internal logic, and another for the PLLs.

You can reduce the LDOs and do some filtering instead for the shared supplies, but personally I would rather just toss in another LDO if it's not a power/area constrained project.


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 Post subject: Re: Nintendo 64 RGB Blur fixing
PostPosted: Tue May 16, 2017 5:09 am 


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mikejmoffitt wrote:
I'm referring to Marshall's UltraVGA kit.

Makes sense. I haven't realized that Marshall made a UltraVGA kit... I took a look on it.
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 Post subject: Re: Nintendo 64 RGB Blur fixing
PostPosted: Tue May 16, 2017 6:09 am 


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This appears to be the official thread for it:

https://bitbuilt.net/forums/index.php?t ... check.899/


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 Post subject: Re: Nintendo 64 RGB Blur fixing
PostPosted: Tue May 16, 2017 3:59 pm 


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Woozle wrote:
3 LDOs doesn't seem like too many to me. I'm using 3 LDOs on a small fpga board, usually need one for the IO banks, another for fpga internal logic, and another for the PLLs.

You can reduce the LDOs and do some filtering instead for the shared supplies, but personally I would rather just toss in another LDO if it's not a power/area constrained project.


It was a minor comment, but it just makes the board a bit bigger, and I'm not sure for what gains. Maybe the RAM requires an additional supply voltage over the 3.3V and the 1.2V that the FPGA requires (although it already gets 3.3 from the N64 as-is). The big issue is that the 3.3V line is noisy enough to cause problems for the DAC.


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 Post subject: Re: Nintendo 64 RGB Blur fixing
PostPosted: Tue May 16, 2017 7:22 pm 



Joined: 07 Apr 2016
Posts: 624
Location: Ohio
I know this isn't exactly RGB-related, but which motherboard revision did Composite and S-Video get better? NUS-CPU-05? NUS-CPU-08?

Also, are there only two tiers of Composite and S-Video output (good and bad), or are there more?

Example:

Bad Composite and S-Video
Good Composite and S-Video

or

Bad Composite and S-Video
Better Composite and S-Video
Best Composite and S-Video


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 Post subject: Re: Nintendo 64 RGB Blur fixing
PostPosted: Tue May 16, 2017 9:21 pm 


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borti4938 wrote:
mikejmoffitt wrote:
Star Fox 64 also has some very small changes in the starfield intro that might trigger a heuristic on occasion as well.

Well, my first guess felt to light effects due to the flying stars around Marios head in SM64 intro. So this might be correlated.
I finished the implementation of some kind of hold off in the heuristic algorithm to exploit this. Cross fingers that this will work - I will test it during this week.


Hold Off seems to work well - at least in the intro of SM64 and also in the starfiled on in SF64 I haven't seen any occasional switches between de-blur on and off.
I will integrate this to the repository such that anybody can try it out for further feedback :) Unfortunately my testing time is highly limited...

BR :)
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 Post subject: Re: Nintendo 64 RGB Blur fixing
PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2017 8:35 am 


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zeruel85 wrote:
@borti4938:

I have strange issues with your latest firmware for Tim's board. Now that you add the heuristic, when I start for example Super Mario 64, sometimes it changes between de-blur on and off, without doing anything, e.g. at the beginning when you see Press Start blinking in the bottom left corner, it's clearly noticeable that de-blur changes by itself.

Could it be a little bug in the code?

Thanks as always. :)


Could you retest it?
https://github.com/borti4938/n64rgb/tre ... tput_files

Btw.: you were right. There were several bugs in the initial algorithm. Now it works (hopefully) more accurate. I watched the intros of SM64 (expect de-blur on) and Mario Tennis (expect de-blur off) and played a bit Mario Kart 64 (expect de-blur on) yesterday. Seems to work good.

Also included a bit improved controller sampling - CPLD now estimates the sampling point.
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 Post subject: Re: Nintendo 64 RGB Blur fixing
PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2017 9:25 am 



Joined: 30 Nov 2015
Posts: 58
borti4938 wrote:
Could you retest it?
https://github.com/borti4938/n64rgb/tre ... tput_files

Btw.: you were right. There were several bugs in the initial algorithm. Now it works (hopefully) more accurate. I watched the intros of SM64 (expect de-blur on) and Mario Tennis (expect de-blur off) and played a bit Mario Kart 64 (expect de-blur on) yesterday. Seems to work good.

Also included a bit improved controller sampling - CPLD now estimates the sampling point.

Yes, I can. I'll try this weekend, when I have more free time.

Thank you for your improvements!


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 Post subject: Re: Nintendo 64 RGB Blur fixing
PostPosted: Sat May 20, 2017 10:36 am 



Joined: 30 Nov 2015
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Alright, I found the time to test some games.
I think it's pretty good now, I don't see changes in de-blur, during the games. Super Mario 64 is ok (always de-blur on), also Mario Kart 64. And Mario Tennis with de-blur off, too.

Very good work borti, you're great! :mrgreen:

Thanks!


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 Post subject: Re: Nintendo 64 RGB Blur fixing
PostPosted: Sat May 20, 2017 11:17 am 


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Thank you for the feedback :)
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 Post subject: Re: Nintendo 64 RGB Blur fixing
PostPosted: Sat May 20, 2017 5:35 pm 



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I'm a bit out of the loop here.

What are all the options for de-blur where de-blur is on by default?


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 Post subject: Re: Nintendo 64 RGB Blur fixing
PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2017 4:43 am 


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DeBlur on is simply DeBlur on.

If you mean my code in specific: I recently added an estimation algorithm whether DeBlur has to be switched on or off in a 240p game.
In the IGR version, this estimation is on by default, however it can be forced to be on or off using controller input combinations.
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 Post subject: Re: Nintendo 64 RGB Blur fixing
PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2017 7:29 pm 



Joined: 07 Apr 2016
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Ah, yes. I'm interested in the IGR version. What does IGR stand for anyway?

Also, how to do determine which 240p games to not use deblur for?


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 Post subject: Re: Nintendo 64 RGB Blur fixing
PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2017 8:34 pm 


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GeneraLight wrote:
Ah, yes. I'm interested in the IGR version. What does IGR stand for anyway?


In-Game Routines, i.e. using the console controller to control the board.

Quote:
Also, how to do determine which 240p games to not use deblur for?


The halving of horizontal resolution should be obvious when you turn it on for games that aren't using the blur feature.


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 Post subject: Re: Nintendo 64 RGB Blur fixing
PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2017 9:18 pm 



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bobrocks95 wrote:
GeneraLight wrote:
Ah, yes. I'm interested in the IGR version. What does IGR stand for anyway?


In-Game Routines, i.e. using the console controller to control the board.

Quote:
Also, how to do determine which 240p games to not use deblur for?


The halving of horizontal resolution should be obvious when you turn it on for games that aren't using the blur feature.

What games don't use blur?


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 Post subject: Re: Nintendo 64 RGB Blur fixing
PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2017 10:04 pm 



Joined: 13 Mar 2011
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I always thought IGR=In Game Reset.


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 Post subject: Re: Nintendo 64 RGB Blur fixing
PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2017 11:40 pm 


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It's kinda like "MOAB", everyone knows it as "mother of all bombs", but that's not what it stands for (Massive Ordnance Air Blast). In game routines it's called, because as Bortis mods demonstrate, IGR's can do a ton of other cool shit via the controller in addition to reset. The in-game-reset is my favorite part though, and I can't wait to get my N64 board from Tim, and thank you Borti!!!


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 Post subject: Re: Nintendo 64 RGB Blur fixing
PostPosted: Wed May 24, 2017 3:25 pm 


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I also thought it was in-game reset for years until I googled it like a month ago... I think every time IGR has ever been implemented, a reset function has been included haha.

Quote:
What games don't use blur?


The ones that look bad when you turn de-blur on (the only example I've heard of is Mario Tennis)


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 Post subject: Re: Nintendo 64 RGB Blur fixing
PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2017 7:59 am 


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Technically, Mario Tennis does. However, from testing it looks like the majority of the game is 320 pixels wide internally, and only a few points in the UI actually took advantage of the 640 pixel width.


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 Post subject: Re: Nintendo 64 RGB Blur fixing
PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2017 5:30 pm 



Joined: 31 Mar 2016
Posts: 70
Does Borti's recently updated firmware work well with Mario Tennis? Thanks.


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 Post subject: Re: Nintendo 64 RGB Blur fixing
PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2017 5:43 pm 



Joined: 30 Nov 2015
Posts: 58
Yes, why should not


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 Post subject: Re: Nintendo 64 RGB Blur fixing
PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2017 6:44 pm 



Joined: 31 Mar 2016
Posts: 70
^^
@zeruel85, sorry bud just scrolled a bit up and saw that you ran some tests with the updated firmware. Thanks!

Would you have any recommendations for a USB Blaster along with a link to the steps you followed to update the firmware. Not really sure what files to grab from Borti's GitHub.

Thanks again.


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