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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB New Firmware Palette Updates:
PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 9:30 am 


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austin532 wrote:

I'm no expert with hardware but if the NES has to warm up like a tv to change colors then that sounds like something is wrong.


The change in brightness is very minor, maybe 3% at most. I suspect it's just how old these consoles are and components wearing out. The vintage front-loaders are now roughly 30 years old.
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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB New Firmware Palette Updates:
PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 1:33 pm 


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So after your experience making this new palette do you think the "PVM Style (FBX)" palette still needs any tweaks/adjustments? Or have you taken that one as far as is humanly possible? 8)


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB New Firmware Palette Updates:
PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 9:14 pm 


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FBX wrote:
austin532 wrote:

I'm no expert with hardware but if the NES has to warm up like a tv to change colors then that sounds like something is wrong.


The change in brightness is very minor, maybe 3% at most. I suspect it's just how old these consoles are and components wearing out. The vintage front-loaders are now roughly 30 years old.

Yeah that was my guess as well.
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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB New Firmware Palette Updates:
PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 11:18 pm 


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Link83 wrote:
So after your experience making this new palette do you think the "PVM Style (FBX)" palette still needs any tweaks/adjustments? Or have you taken that one as far as is humanly possible? 8)


PVM Style is a different ball park. This new "NTSC Hardware" is meant to replace "Original Hardware" as the best palette for CRT users.

As for PVM Style, I'm probably going to replace it with the D93 version which I've already posted, but here's the download link again:

http://www.firebrandx.com/downloads/PVM ... D93%20(FBX).zip


And of course, keep in mind that the PVM style palettes meant for digital display users are much more subjective in nature.
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Last edited by FBX on Sun Mar 05, 2017 9:37 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB New Firmware Palette Updates:
PostPosted: Sun Mar 05, 2017 9:36 am 


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Did one more pass tonight on the PVM to make some final adjustments. Namely the 3rd row of colors wasn't set to the same warm-up brightness level, so I fixed them.

I also had to make the hard choice to set the 4 overblown colors to the same standard as the direct capture clipping. If this is an issue of preference, we may have to just have two versions of NTSC Hardware palettes: One with the intended purple tinge, and one with no purple tinge.

Here's revised palette link:

http://www.firebrandx.com/downloads/NTSCHardware(FBX).zip


.
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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB New Firmware Palette Updates:
PostPosted: Sun Mar 05, 2017 5:05 pm 


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Consumer sets show mario sky as blue through composite. That's how I'd leave it


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB New Firmware Palette Updates:
PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 1:14 am 


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tjstogy wrote:
Consumer sets show mario sky as blue through composite. That's how I'd leave it


At the same time though, it isn't what the artists intended, and capture cards "restore" that intent by clipping the blue channel. Consider also that Nintendo themselves officially endorsed the purple color in their own palette for the NES Classic.

However, I am thinking I should offer the two versions, just so everyone gets a CRT palette they like.
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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB New Firmware Palette Updates:
PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 5:40 am 


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So now we've come full circle. Nostalgia vs. what was intended. Honestly not enough games use that purple and the ones that do just output a bright blue due to the voltage. It's not a deal breaker for me. I do think the purple looks more natural for mario and gives the world that fantasy look.
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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB New Firmware Palette Updates:
PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 5:41 am 


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Going back and playing SMB again with the two palette versions, I'm now thinking that the blue version really is a better experience. The Nt mini lets you swap palettes live during the game, and when I tried both purple and blue while comparing the composite feed, the blue just looked better. So I've made the correction to the palette and I'm finally calling it done. Here's a zip package with the correction in addition to the other palettes I have made that I intend to support going forward:

http://www.firebrandx.com/downloads/nespalettes-03-05-2017.zip

And my apologies for going back and forth on this latest effort. I just want to be absolutely sure it's as good as I can possible get it for CRT users, and I believe I can finally say it is. Also, the D93 version of the PVM Style palette (it's in the above zip link as well) will be the one I support from now on for digital displays, though I've been told the CRT palette also looks pretty decent for digital displays.

At any rate, I'm just going to review the PVM Style D93 palette, make sure it still passes game and color tests, and then submit the new batch for NESRGB firmware. If I end up changing anything in the PVM Style D93 palette, I will of course post the updated version here.

Cheers!
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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB New Firmware Palette Updates:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 5:45 am 


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I have lost overview over all those different palettes you are offering :?


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB New Firmware Palette Updates:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 6:02 am 


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xadox wrote:
I have lost overview over all those different palettes you are offering :?



Composite Direct: Self explanatory direct capture. Can be used on everything, but not exactly the most accurate reproduction of colors.

NTSC Hardware: Meant for CRT users and is as close as one can get to the original front-loader's colors on a CRT.

PVM Style D93: An attempt to give digital display users a more authentic experience.

NES Classic: Ripped from Nintendo's own 'official' digital palette, though again, not really accurate to an original NES.
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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB New Firmware Palette Updates:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 6:29 am 


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It feels like they will be named differend every second release :)


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB New Firmware Palette Updates:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 7:35 am 


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xadox wrote:
It feels like they will be named differend every second release :)


Nah, it's settled on the names. I'm not updating the web site until everything is set in stone. I just want to review the PVM Style palette to make sure it's kosher, but everything else is done and done.
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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB New Firmware Palette Updates:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2017 1:51 am 


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Just for shits and giggles I boot up SMB Deluxe for the GBC and it displays more of a blue color for the sky. I'm pretty sure the GBC was more than capable of displaying the same purple sky as NES and yet they went with a lighter blue instead. I wonder why?

Image
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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB New Firmware Palette Updates:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2017 2:56 am 


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB New Firmware Palette Updates:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2017 4:20 am 


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austin532 wrote:
Just for shits and giggles I boot up SMB Deluxe for the GBC and it displays more of a blue color for the sky. I'm pretty sure the GBC was more than capable of displaying the same purple sky as NES and yet they went with a lighter blue instead. I wonder why?

Image


Was it an emulator? Do you know if the colors are official or just an interpretation?

But yeah, consider Nintendo went with purple sky on their own NES Classic, so they can't be relied upon to stay consistent if that is official on the GBC.
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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB New Firmware Palette Updates:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2017 7:33 am 



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FBX wrote:
austin532 wrote:
Just for shits and giggles I boot up SMB Deluxe for the GBC and it displays more of a blue color for the sky. I'm pretty sure the GBC was more than capable of displaying the same purple sky as NES and yet they went with a lighter blue instead. I wonder why?

Image


Was it an emulator? Do you know if the colors are official or just an interpretation?

But yeah, consider Nintendo went with purple sky on their own NES Classic, so they can't be relied upon to stay consistent if that is official on the GBC.

The Gameboy Color uses native RGB. It would look the same playing on an AGS-101 or a Gameboy Player as it would on an emulator.

As for an "official" palette, we have several: Wii VC, NES Classic, 3DS VC, NES Remix, the one used on the GBA rereleases of the NES games, etc.


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB New Firmware Palette Updates:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2017 9:05 am 


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That's what I though as well. Yes it's from an emulator. The GBA version of SMB looks like it is using the Playchoice 10 palette. They tried to squeeze the game to fit the GBA screen and it looks like crap.

Image
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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB New Firmware Palette Updates:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2017 9:12 am 


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syboxez wrote:

As for an "official" palette, we have several: Wii VC, NES Classic, 3DS VC, NES Remix, the one used on the GBA rereleases of the NES games, etc.


Which goes exactly to my point: Nintendo constantly changes their own interpretation of the NES palette.
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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB New Firmware Palette Updates:
PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 9:33 am 


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Finished the final review of the PVM Style D93 palette, and made a few tweaks to it. Final package is uploaded here:

http://www.firebrandx.com/downloads/nespalettes-03-11-2017.zip

I've also submitted the updated batch to Tim for the final Firmware set.

.
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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB New Firmware Palette Updates:
PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 11:40 am 


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Heh, not hours ago I went googling for NES palettes for my Analogue NT Mini and found your site, was about to mention somewhere here how the PVM Style palette is pretty darn sweet. Didn't remember there's a whole lot thread here it with you as the driving force.
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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB New Firmware Palette Updates:
PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 12:37 pm 


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Ghegs wrote:
Heh, not hours ago I went googling for NES palettes for my Analogue NT Mini and found your site, was about to mention somewhere here how the PVM Style palette is pretty darn sweet. Didn't remember there's a whole lot thread here it with you as the driving force.



Hey Thanks!

I need to update my web site with the final results. The link above your post is the new work.

Cheers!

Edit: updated the web page, but you may need to hit "refresh" button on your browser to see the current content.
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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB New Firmware Palette Updates:
PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 8:20 pm 



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When you flash the NESRGB with the provided .pof palette files from Tim does it also update the firmware to the latest revision or is it just the palettes?


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB New Firmware Palette Updates:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 11:14 am 


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Uzumaki wrote:
When you flash the NESRGB with the provided .pof palette files from Tim does it also update the firmware to the latest revision or is it just the palettes?



Latest firmware of course. Tim wouldn't use an older firmware to make them.
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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB New Firmware Palette Updates:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 10:49 pm 


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Thanks for the update FBX. Do you think you're finally satisfied? lol. Have you considered doing the Atari's? Would love to see palettes for the 2600 based on those that you've done with the NES...


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB New Firmware Palette Updates:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 1:53 pm 



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FBX wrote:
Finished the final review of the PVM Style D93 palette, and made a few tweaks to it. Final package is uploaded here: http://www.firebrandx.com/downloads/nespalettes-03-11-2017.zip

Incredible work. I am especially pleased with the change to D93, as this temp might have been the norm back then, over in Japan, for the designing of the most-classic NES games.

My older review still applies to this updated palette:
Code:
in retrospective, the time was due for the emergence of such an 'authentic' palette. a new standard i believe, if not a canon for the humans to come.


FBX wrote:
Going back and playing SMB again with the two palette versions, I'm now thinking that the blue version really is a better experience.

Blue is such an unique colour! Besides the higher voltage there, as outputted by the original hardware, its specialness stands out in that we are especially vulnerable, as ageing creatures, to perceive it as faded or 'ẁashed out' the older we get.
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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB New Firmware Palette Updates:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 5:21 pm 


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Good news!

Tim has made the new package of firmwares, which I have uploaded here:


http://www.firebrandx.com/graphics/nespalettes/nesrgbfirmware-03-2017.zip


Included is a text file detailing the switch assignments and which firmware contains your favorite sets.

Finally I can retire I believe this time! :mrgreen:

.
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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB New Firmware Palette Updates:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 7:56 pm 


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FBX wrote:
Finally I can retire I believe this time! :mrgreen:

.

How many time have you said this in the past, tho :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB New Firmware Palette Updates:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 9:08 pm 


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FinalBaton wrote:
FBX wrote:
Finally I can retire I believe this time! :mrgreen:

.

How many time have you said this in the past, tho :lol:



It's true, I'll admit. But really, where could I go from here as far as NTSC is concerned? I'm already offering a palette for CRT users that outperforms direct-capture, I've got a PVM style palette for digital display users, and a pure direct-capture palette for posterity. That's a lot more understanding I've come to have about the issues with NES palette work, especially considering I initially though one palette would fit all situations when I first got into this.
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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB New Firmware Palette Updates:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 9:10 pm 


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just busting your balls FBX :mrgreen:

I'm happy that other users are happy with your palettes


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