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 Post subject: Re: TV RGB mod thread
PostPosted: Wed Apr 05, 2017 3:21 pm 



Joined: 27 Mar 2017
Posts: 4
nem wrote:
K405 wrote:
Hi nem, following with interest, have the exact same JVC TM-1700PN (https://cvp.com/pdf/jvc_tm1700pn.pdf)


Excellent, then there's two of us.

For the record, my efforts resulted in failure. I might return to it at some point when I have more time.


I managed to score 2x JVC TM-1750PN which have RGB inputs. I was silently hoping they would hold that Philips encoder but unfortunately they don't.

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 Post subject: Re: TV RGB mod thread
PostPosted: Wed Apr 05, 2017 3:45 pm 


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K405 wrote:
I managed to score 2x JVC TM-1750PN which have RGB inputs. I was silently hoping they would hold that Philips encoder but unfortunately they don't.


That's good info as it is, because I was wondering about that.

Here's the circuit diagram for the video card in the TM-1700PN. As you can see the RGB section is actually fully populated here. I'm too stupid to make heads or tails of it, but since syboxez here had success with a TDA8843 by removing the resistors, that's what I'll try next.

EDIT: I just tried without the resistors, no luck!

K4OS, since you have the RGB input card, what would be interesting would be to try it on the 1700PN. Naturally you would need to switch on blanking somehow.


Last edited by nem on Wed Apr 05, 2017 6:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: TV RGB mod thread
PostPosted: Wed Apr 05, 2017 6:48 pm 


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nem wrote:
K405 wrote:
I managed to score 2x JVC TM-1750PN which have RGB inputs. I was silently hoping they would hold that Philips encoder but unfortunately they don't.




EDIT: I just tried without the resistors, no luck!


How exactly do you have this wired up?
From the datasheet, it looks like pins 21-23 are rgb, 24 needs 3+ volts for blanking, and pin 9 is sync


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 Post subject: Re: TV RGB mod thread
PostPosted: Wed Apr 05, 2017 6:54 pm 


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Star1 wrote:
How exactly do you have this wired up?
From the datasheet, it looks like pins 21-23 are rgb, 24 needs 3+ volts for blanking, and pin 9 is sync


Exactly like that. I tried both pin 9 and pin 25 as sync.

The screen is blanking and sync seems to be working because the menu jitters when there's no sync. However, I get nothing on the screen. I've put resistors and caps on the RGB lines and also tried without them.


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 Post subject: Re: TV RGB mod thread
PostPosted: Wed Apr 05, 2017 7:12 pm 


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nem wrote:
Star1 wrote:
How exactly do you have this wired up?
From the datasheet, it looks like pins 21-23 are rgb, 24 needs 3+ volts for blanking, and pin 9 is sync


Exactly like that. I tried both pin 9 and pin 25 as sync.

The screen is blanking and sync seems to be working because the menu jitters when there's no sync. However, I get nothing on the screen. I've put resistors and caps on the RGB lines and also tried without them.


Are you certain you conencted the resistors correctly? And did you add a cap on the sync line? It can be needed, depending on which console you test with (although it probably would show at least a distorted image). Also, have you measure the blanking voltage?


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 Post subject: Re: TV RGB mod thread
PostPosted: Wed Apr 05, 2017 7:20 pm 


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Yes for resistors. Blanking voltage was an exact 5V.

A distorted screen would have been something, however, like I said, I got nothing to show up.


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 Post subject: Re: TV RGB mod thread
PostPosted: Wed Apr 05, 2017 7:40 pm 


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Do you have some way of lowering the voltage sent to the blanking pin? If I interpret the datasheet correctly (no guarantee of that!), you need more than 3, but less than 4 volts to enable the rgb inputs.


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 Post subject: Re: TV RGB mod thread
PostPosted: Wed Apr 05, 2017 8:47 pm 


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Where did you get 4V from?

Earlier discussion related to this can be found here in this post (and the subsequent one after).


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 Post subject: Re: TV RGB mod thread
PostPosted: Wed Apr 05, 2017 10:19 pm 


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I got it from the datasheet, but I'm just brainstorming. It says 4V will enable OSD blanking, not RGB, but I won't pretend to have strict knowledge of the operational difference.


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 Post subject: Re: TV RGB mod thread
PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 12:26 am 


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Star1 wrote:
I got it from the datasheet, but I'm just brainstorming. It says 4V will enable OSD blanking, not RGB, but I won't pretend to have strict knowledge of the operational difference.

Well spotted, that man.

Try lowering the voltage going to the blanking pin until it's 2.5V-3V. Using 4V+ will blank the RGB outputs of the chip completely, according to the datasheet. So with 5V going in, it's not giving out any signal. I believe it's done that way so the micom can mux in an OSD over SCART, if needed.

That's what Syboxes ended up doing to get the TDA8843 to work - using 2.5V instead of 5V


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 Post subject: Re: TV RGB mod thread
PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 9:37 am 



Joined: 27 Mar 2017
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nem wrote:
K405 wrote:
I managed to score 2x JVC TM-1750PN which have RGB inputs. I was silently hoping they would hold that Philips encoder but unfortunately they don't.


K4OS, since you have the RGB input card, what would be interesting would be to try it on the 1700PN. Naturally you would need to switch on blanking somehow.


To be honest I'd rather not try that.. :oops:


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 Post subject: Re: TV RGB mod thread
PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 11:45 am 


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Alright, no worries.

@buttersoft, Star1

I grabbed three identical resistors and made some simple voltage dividers. I tried 1.65V, 2.5V and 3.3V. Unfortunately, still the same result and absolutely nothing shows up. One thing that did change was the color and appearance of the OSD. At 5V the OSD is a bright yellow, at 3.3V or under it turns a dim green.


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 Post subject: Re: TV RGB mod thread
PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 3:05 pm 


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I think this is the point where I would be pulling out my hair if it was me :P


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 Post subject: Re: TV RGB mod thread
PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 6:55 pm 



Joined: 05 Dec 2012
Posts: 298
I just got a 16:9 Samsung HD CRT with HDMI inputs. I assume there's no jungle chip and it can't be RGB modded, but I figured I'd post a pic of the board, just in case. Does anyone have experience with this?: http://imgur.com/a/Xf2hP


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 Post subject: Re: TV RGB mod thread
PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 10:05 pm 


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From experience, most HD CRT sets can be RGB modded, but you are usually looking at a fixed useless resolution like 1080i/540p with effectively VGA, and they generally scale to that instead of multisync so you're out of luck if you try to inject anything interesting. I did this to my KV-32HS510, and removed it because it was mostly worthless.


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 Post subject: Re: TV RGB mod thread
PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 2:26 am 


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nem wrote:
Alright, no worries.

@buttersoft, Star1

I grabbed three identical resistors and made some simple voltage dividers. I tried 1.65V, 2.5V and 3.3V. Unfortunately, still the same result and absolutely nothing shows up. One thing that did change was the color and appearance of the OSD. At 5V the OSD is a bright yellow, at 3.3V or under it turns a dim green.


Do you have the schematic of the card, not just the datasheet for the chip? How is the OSD realized, individual inputs? One sync pulse split over the 4 inputs through resistors? Outputs?

The TDA8366 looks very similar to the TDA884X chips. See p12 of the TDA8366 datasheet, and pps 15 & 17 of the TDA884X datadsheet. The IE1 bit has something to do with the fast-blanking; what precisely, I'm not sure. It might just turn it on and off completely, which is what it says. I had a set with a TDA8841 that would blank, but not show RGB no matter the voltage fed to the blanking pin. This is what I was trying to communicate to Syboxes, but his chip turned out to work fine once he'd fed 5V into the origin point of the blanking signal, to get 2.5 into the chip. If the schematics allow, you could try that.

If you can get into the EEPROM safely, if it's not weird or protected, you could try flipping the IE1 bit. Careful though, I destroyed mine, and thus the set.


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 Post subject: Re: TV RGB mod thread
PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 3:11 pm 


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buttersoft wrote:
Do you have the schematic of the card, not just the datasheet for the chip? How is the OSD realized, individual inputs? One sync pulse split over the 4 inputs through resistors? Outputs?


Block diagram here
Circuit diagram here

The full service manual can be found here (9mb pdf).


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 Post subject: Re: TV RGB mod thread
PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 5:21 pm 



Joined: 05 Dec 2012
Posts: 298
mikejmoffitt wrote:
From experience, most HD CRT sets can be RGB modded, but you are usually looking at a fixed useless resolution like 1080i/540p with effectively VGA, and they generally scale to that instead of multisync so you're out of luck if you try to inject anything interesting. I did this to my KV-32HS510, and removed it because it was mostly worthless.

That's kinda what I expected. Thank's Mike! At the very least, I'll do a lag test on it in 480p and see if that video processing board ads any. If not, it'll be one bad ass 720p gaming TV!


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 Post subject: Re: TV RGB mod thread
PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 10:09 pm 


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For what it's worth, at every resolution my KV-32HS510 had a constant 1.5 frames of lag for any input with any resolution...


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 Post subject: Re: TV RGB mod thread
PostPosted: Mon Apr 10, 2017 5:21 pm 



Joined: 22 Oct 2014
Posts: 27
Hi guys, I encountered this weird TV that would not work with the normal mod. The model is Sharp 27US60, here is the servic manual https://www.manualslib.com/manual/70156 ... u-S60.html .
Firs thing I noticed is there was no .1uf caps in line with RGB just 6.8K ohm resistors coming from the micom. So the weird thing is that blanking on the chip was only .6V for the OSD signal, I used a 1K ohm pot with 5V to find full blanking but when I did nothing would come through just a blank screen. Crazy thing is when I removed my blanking voltage and used the original OSD blanking with my RGB signal it would come through monochrome no colors. I proceeded to remove the termination and same thing happened, what finally got the image in color was removing the .1uf and just hooking the color lines straight in. Next thing I want to try is adding 6.8K ohm resistors to the lines to match what the OSD has to see if it improves the image.


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 Post subject: Re: TV RGB mod thread
PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 4:30 am 


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nem wrote:
buttersoft wrote:
Do you have the schematic of the card, not just the datasheet for the chip? How is the OSD realized, individual inputs? One sync pulse split over the 4 inputs through resistors? Outputs?


Block diagram here
Circuit diagram here

The full service manual can be found here (9mb pdf).


OK, so the schematic for the input card goes so far as to show the RGBS inputs, which I presume are actually absent...? If it's fully populated bar that, the best place to insert the RGB signals is going to be where those inputs normally go. Either way you'll have to figure out how to switch inputs on the set. The problem might be that this set doesn't use that particular jungle chip for anything to do with the OSD, at least the OSD is NOT done through the RGB inputs? It may be muxed into the outputs. Certainly the only thing going into the RGB inputs on the TDA8366 Jungle chip is external RGB from the inputs on the top left.

The RGB outputs from the jungle chip are fed to the main PCB, you can see that clearly marked, but that's not to say using them yourself even at 2.0Vp-p is a good idea. The set may not have another way to regulate the HV as influenced by the video levels once past the Jungle IC.

That Jungle IC might have the inputs turned off via EEPROM, but that's still a guess in general, let alone for this set. I'll keep looking at the schematics, but I'm not very good at this compared to someone like Tim :(


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 Post subject: Re: TV RGB mod thread
PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 7:06 am 



Joined: 01 Apr 2017
Posts: 7
Well, I've found a wicked good deal on a PVM-20N5U. It only has S-VIDEO and composite, but the service manual says that all the models in that particular range use the same decoder, and that decoder has TWO RGB inputs. So I may be the first person to RGB mod a PVM (if you could call using existing inputs modding). Even if that fails, I've still got the good old fashioned OSD way. Would somebody mind checking my work? https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source= ... 7TQ_bwNE6w


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 Post subject: Re: TV RGB mod thread
PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 4:27 pm 


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buttersoft wrote:
OK, so the schematic for the input card goes so far as to show the RGBS inputs, which I presume are actually absent...? If it's fully populated bar that, the best place to insert the RGB signals is going to be where those inputs normally go.


This is how I've done it.

Quote:
Either way you'll have to figure out how to switch inputs on the set. The problem might be that this set doesn't use that particular jungle chip for anything to do with the OSD, at least the OSD is NOT done through the RGB inputs? It may be muxed into the outputs.


Yes, it is muxed into the outputs.

Quote:
I'll keep looking at the schematics, but I'm not very good at this compared to someone like Tim :(


I hear you :(


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 Post subject: Re: TV RGB mod thread
PostPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2017 4:21 am 



Joined: 16 Mar 2012
Posts: 16
I've been reading this thread for a while now, and I think now I'm almost prepared to try the RGB Mod.
My TV set is a Panasonic CT-Z2147LA, and I can't find a datasheet or service manual for this particular model, but when I opened it up I wrote down the IC model, which is AN5165K, and I found the datasheet for this one! I'm not entirely sure, but I think the mod is doable on this particular chip? Here's the datasheet, and a few screenshots of it, from the most important stuff I think:

https://www.mediafire.com/?houm6n28d5lecai

Image
Image

Hopefully it's capable of doing this wizardry :)
Any thoughts?
BTW, I'm confortable working with discharged chassis, and as this must have to be done with a live chassis, I'm having a friend with much more experience helping me when the time comes.

Edit: So I did a quick google of "AN5165K RGB mod" and this is the first result: https://forums.nesdev.com/viewtopic.php ... 4&start=15, which shows the successful modding story of Devalis, who was featured in the OP in this same thread, too: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=56155&start=449
So I think the odds are on my favour :)


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 Post subject: Re: TV RGB mod thread
PostPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2017 4:51 am 


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nem wrote:
buttersoft wrote:
Either way you'll have to figure out how to switch inputs on the set. The problem might be that this set doesn't use that particular jungle chip for anything to do with the OSD, at least the OSD is NOT done through the RGB inputs? It may be muxed into the outputs.

Yes, it is muxed into the outputs.


Next, i'd try reducing the blanking voltage you're using all the way from 5V to just about zero. You never know. Get some pots as dummy load and measure what happens at the pin.

If that fails.... I deduce that it's all the fault of the TDA8366. Like the TDA8841, it looks like the RGB inputs aren't turned on. The datasheet definitely says they can be, however. (See TDA8841 datasheet, P15, RGB output circuit description.) For the love of God figure out how to make a copy of that EEPROM before you do anything else to it, though. If you hurt it, or the wrong bit of code, pun intended, you'll kill it, which will probably kill the set. I used a cheap programmer on mine, and fkd it up totally.

This is Tim's best guess, remember, because I haven't done it either. SyBoxes got lucky in that his 8843 was turned on. It's also possible that the lower end chip, in my case the 8841, doesn't have RGB input capability, and the multi-chip datasheets have failed to note this. Or even that we're missing some piece of the puzzle and the solution is different entirely.

At the moment that's the best I can do for you, but let us know if you manage to achieve anything :)


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 Post subject: Re: TV RGB mod thread
PostPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2017 5:11 pm 


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A while ago (back in October, yikes) I posted how I had made a circuit that let you keep the OSD and replaced the big multi-pole switch with a simple on-off SPST. I apologize for taking this long, but since my hastily assembled test circuit worked and the PCB software I was using started irritating me, I sort of lost the motivation. I've recently switched to kicad and, finding it a much better tool, I've set out to finish the damn thing right. I'm still not done plotting out the PCB, but here's the schematic and how it works if anyone is still interested. Message me and I can send you the schematic itself, or the PCB file once I finish it. Eventually. I promise.

I used an LT1675, a fast switching RGB multiplexer that's made for applications such as these. I wired the OSD RGB to the RGB 1 input pins (1,2 & 3) and the external console RGB to RGB 2 (6,7 & 8). When the select pin is low, it'll output RGB2 and rapidly switch to RGB1 when select is high. The OSD blanking signal is used for this.

The OSD blanking is also connected in parallel to an or gate, SN74LVC1G32DBVR, along with the RGB-on signal, 5V DC coming off a SPST switch. The output from the or gate is then sent out to the jungle IC's blanking pin. This makes it so that a) if the external RGB is off, the OSD blanking will switch to RGB1, the or gate will pass along the blanking signal and everything is as usual. b) if external RGB is on, OSD blanking can still switch to RGB1 but the output the jungle IC blanking pin is still the usual DC that blanks the whole screen.

Finally, the LT1675 requires negative voltage, for which I used an LM2776. Perhaps some TVs may have a -5V rail you can use.

Image

The schematic is for a simple JVC setup that has 0.7Vp-p video signals, 5ish V blanking and 75 Ω impedance, but it can be adapted to any TV that can be modded.

E: One more thing; the LM2776 datasheet states that the charge pump capacitor, C3 in the schematic above, needs to physically be as close to its C+ and C- pins as possible. It's not kidding. At first I had it about a centimetre away and... 0V on the -5V output. Just a heads up.


Last edited by KnuckleheadFlow on Fri Apr 14, 2017 1:19 am, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: TV RGB mod thread
PostPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2017 9:59 pm 



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Thanks for the post @knuckleandflow, I've been waiting for your schematics :). Did a KV-27S42 and like the previous ones done here on the thread, I must say it looks amazing!. It had Horizontal shift issues with feeding sync to the composite video port, I put the sync on luma but surprisingly it would not get along with the CPS2 sync signal. Sync fed to luma worked with every other source besides the CPS2 so I just threw a switch on there to select between the two.

http://i.imgur.com/ngKaX0c.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/bJHpPFx.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/GDug3HM.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/xKZXnSm.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/nrvtq2g.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/nrvtq2g.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/ciXBHqp.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/DhC6C0v.jpg


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 Post subject: Re: TV RGB mod thread
PostPosted: Sat Apr 15, 2017 1:15 am 


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Here is a RCA tv im working on, now I have no idea what the blanking is or what is does, but I do know its my last step. Here is what I have so far.

Image
Image
Image
Image
Image


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 Post subject: Re: TV RGB mod thread
PostPosted: Sat Apr 15, 2017 8:55 pm 


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Ok so screwed up that other tv by ripping of the pin completely so now I got another tv its an RCA and ic is ta1282n.

Am I supposed to undo the f-blk pin 14 from circuitry? and where do I tie that pin into for a 5v source?

https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/17917557_1505850616152528_4005254093025685130_o.jpg?oh=5daaa2544f8d6f4aab8848366f85505d&oe=5998C35A


Last edited by Oldskoolmaniac on Sun Apr 16, 2017 10:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: TV RGB mod thread
PostPosted: Sun Apr 16, 2017 9:39 pm 



Joined: 09 Mar 2017
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I realized I had another TV in my basement, this one a toshiba 14af45. The service manual is available on elektrotanya and the jungle ic data sheet is here, and I just want to make sure I'm understanding what it is I'm supposed to do before I go even ordering anything, because I am a gibbon.

So I want my RGB signals going into pins 21-23 on ic601(through caps and with resistors to ground), 5v from vcc (pin 41 would work, right?) into pin 24, and sync into luma on pin 51, yes? Now, I notice that on my particular board there's a line of vias basically dead centre between 101 and 601, bridged across on the other side of the board. I could just get rid of those bridges and wire the switch to the vias there so I don't have to lift or cut anything, right? Also, since I don't seem to be able to find any, where might I buy the female 21-pin scart socket? That seems like it might be important.
Also also (goodness, I'm editing this comment a lot) how would any of you suggest going about audio? is it okay to hook it up straight into the mixer through the scart? I don't see why it wouldn't work but I might just not be looking hard enough.


My apologies if these questions are dumb or have obvious answers that I'm just too dumb to see, and thanks in advance for the help.


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