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 Post subject: Re: TV RGB mod thread
PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2017 1:18 pm 


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Location: Norway
[/quote]
I tried this tonight, as well as any other combination of things. I still get no image from it when blanking. I saw that supcrackers attempted an rgb mod on a Toshiba model with the same IC, hopefully he can chime in as to whether he was successful.[/quote]

What pin are you using for sync? From the picture it doesn't seem like sync is going to pin 38.


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 Post subject: Re: TV RGB mod thread
PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2017 3:18 pm 


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K405 wrote:
Hi nem, following with interest, have the exact same JVC TM-1700PN (https://cvp.com/pdf/jvc_tm1700pn.pdf)


Excellent, then there's two of us.

For the record, my efforts resulted in failure. I might return to it at some point when I have more time.


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 Post subject: Re: TV RGB mod thread
PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2017 4:37 pm 


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Sorry I just saw your post. I tried unfortunetly when I was wiring everything up, my wife walked past the dissembled set on the ground. Her skirt snagged the pins on the neck. What followed was a crack and a long hiss. Sorry I wasn't any help, its my wife's fault.


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 Post subject: Re: TV RGB mod thread
PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2017 4:51 pm 



Joined: 20 Jan 2016
Posts: 73
jay wrote:
I'm not sure if they are disabled or not, but I'll try it tonight and report back. Should I pull pins 6 and 10 out of circuit?


You may need to isolate all the pins you're connecting to if they are connected to ground or to the OSD. I always point out that lifting pins is the hardest way of doing it. Best option is to find a component in series that you can remove, or a trace you can cut.

Pin 6 is blanking for 3-4-5, pin 10 is blanking for 7-8-9. It is possible that the spare RGB input does not work, so be prepared to try the OSD input instead.


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 Post subject: Re: TV RGB mod thread
PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 6:17 am 



Joined: 22 Oct 2014
Posts: 28
Finished off my 5th crt RGB mod, this time on a 32" RCA F32685. Took 2 days cause at first the image was way over driven, so my boy |Ben Fong suggested some series resistors on the color lines. I decided to go for 1k pots to be more flexible in finding this tv's sweet spot. Thanks to Ben also for making a nice neat hole for the scart and switch. This one was a bit of a crap shoot because I could not find the service or chassis manual. So I did not know if it was mod ready until I opened it found the Jungle and looked up it's datasheet. Enjoy guys :).

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 Post subject: Re: TV RGB mod thread
PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2017 2:41 am 



Joined: 24 Jul 2016
Posts: 58
I just got an Apex AT2704S from the dumpster, and I'm seeing RGB in on the jungle IC, but no blanking pin.

Here is the service manual: http://www100.zippyshare.com/v/igsePqps/file.html
and the datasheet for the jungle IC: http://www100.zippyshare.com/v/WmQgyaDD/file.html

Also a different question. Is there a way to have PAL support on this TV with composite and S-Video? It already syncs up correctly, but the picture is black and white.


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 Post subject: Re: TV RGB mod thread
PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2017 3:32 am 


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syboxez wrote:
I just got an Apex AT2704S from the dumpster, and I'm seeing RGB in on the jungle IC, but no blanking pin.

Here is the service manual: http://www100.zippyshare.com/v/igsePqps/file.html
and the datasheet for the jungle IC: http://www100.zippyshare.com/v/WmQgyaDD/file.html

Also a different question. Is there a way to have PAL support on this TV with composite and S-Video? It already syncs up correctly, but the picture is black and white.


Everything is there in the datasheet.

You can jump on the bus and flip a bit on in a register:

Image

Or, you can pull the blanking pin logic high manually:


Image

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As for out-of-the-box 50/60Hz support. That's entirely dependent on the IC:

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If it's triggering on 50Hz, you probably just need to flip a bit to enable the color-burst for PAL encoded transmission, 4.43Mhz.

The first step is to identify the IC. Is it NTSC only or multi?

Then I would read the datasheet.

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 Post subject: Re: TV RGB mod thread
PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2017 4:12 am 



Joined: 24 Jul 2016
Posts: 58
The IC is the TDA 8843 (rebranded), which does support PAL. I'll focus on RGB for now, and try my hand at PAL color later.

So if I understood correctly, I feed 0.4v to the blanking pin and 0.7Vpp RGB?

Will I need to get an external 4.43 MHz clock if the TV doesn't have one already?

EDIT: I'm also seeing at S.3.9 something about OSD blanking to feed minimum 4v. Anything I should do about that?

EDIT2: Table 67 (also on the datasheet) tells me to tie pin 26 HIGH to enable RGB. Does this TV natively support RGB, and should I even worry about that or just override the OSD regardless?


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 Post subject: Re: TV RGB mod thread
PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2017 10:09 am 


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syboxez wrote:
The IC is the TDA 8843 (rebranded), which does support PAL. I'll focus on RGB for now, and try my hand at PAL color later.

So if I understood correctly, I feed 0.4v to the blanking pin and 0.7Vpp RGB?

Will I need to get an external 4.43 MHz clock if the TV doesn't have one already?

EDIT: I'm also seeing at S.3.9 something about OSD blanking to feed minimum 4v. Anything I should do about that?

EDIT2: Table 67 (also on the datasheet) tells me to tie pin 26 HIGH to enable RGB. Does this TV natively support RGB, and should I even worry about that or just override the OSD regardless?


Interested to hear how you get on. I had a set with a TDA8841, a few pages back in this thread. Exact same datasheet. Feeding the blanking voltage would blank the set, but no RGB would show. Viletim suggested the IE1 bit controlled the RGB inputs being on or off, not the fast blanking per se. (Datasheet P15.) Is your set muxing the OSD into the RGB inputs or RGB outputs of the 8843? If the former, you're set with blanking voltage and RGB. If the latter, you may have to get into the EEPROM and alter the IE1 bit - find my posts further back, and the one on the last page and see what i did wrong there :)


Last edited by buttersoft on Fri Mar 31, 2017 6:06 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: TV RGB mod thread
PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2017 3:56 pm 


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Still amazed at the tenacity in this thread.

I doubt it will come to this, but, if I wanted to go retro gaming again and wanted one of these TVs, are these posted in FS ever? I think my days of modding are over. Then again, I've not hooked up a game console before the Wii in years. Fucking adulthood...
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 Post subject: Re: TV RGB mod thread
PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2017 4:21 pm 


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GaijinPunch wrote:
Still amazed at the tenacity in this thread.

I doubt it will come to this, but, if I wanted to go retro gaming again and wanted one of these TVs, are these posted in FS ever? I think my days of modding are over. Then again, I've not hooked up a game console before the Wii in years. Fucking adulthood...


Hey man don't give up. You can do this. I understand your point on adulthood. I got married 14 years ago in which we got pregnant almost immediately. Gaming started becoming an apple in front of the horse type of thing. It was always over the horizon. The point at which I figured I would have time to game gradually shifted from 22 > 25 > 30 > 40 > retirement > nursing home. Strangely the modding never left me.


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 Post subject: Re: TV RGB mod thread
PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2017 5:23 pm 


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Location: Chicago
Well, I still do some modding... it's just outlandish clothes and not electronics now. :D
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 Post subject: Re: TV RGB mod thread
PostPosted: Fri Mar 31, 2017 3:17 am 



Joined: 24 Jul 2016
Posts: 58
So... some problems. OSD is all black as expected since I cut the OSD RGB lines, and when I flip the switch for OSD blanking, the entire screen goes black. All good so far. When I try feeding in RGB to the jungle IC instead of the OSD, nothing happens. It's just a black screen. Sync is working fine since I am seeing no interlacing and a very faint image (or a full image if I'm using Luma as sync) when the blanking is off. When I turn the blanking on, I continue to get a sync signal, but the screen is entirely black.

On the bright side, I accidentally discovered how to use YPbPr component on this TV, so that's nice, but I still want RGB.

I have tried feeding RGB through a 0.1 uf ceramic cap, and directly, both times tying them to ground with 75 ohm resistors.


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 Post subject: Re: TV RGB mod thread
PostPosted: Fri Mar 31, 2017 5:58 am 


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syboxez wrote:
So... some problems. OSD is all black as expected since I cut the OSD RGB lines, and when I flip the switch for OSD blanking, the entire screen goes black. All good so far. When I try feeding in RGB to the jungle IC instead of the OSD, nothing happens. It's just a black screen. Sync is working fine since I am seeing no interlacing and a very faint image (or a full image if I'm using Luma as sync) when the blanking is off. When I turn the blanking on, I continue to get a sync signal, but the screen is entirely black.

On the bright side, I accidentally discovered how to use YPbPr component on this TV, so that's nice, but I still want RGB.

I have tried feeding RGB through a 0.1 uf ceramic cap, and directly, both times tying them to ground with 75 ohm resistors.


Take a look 4 posts above yours :)

I'm not sure that's the answer, as I failed to achieve setting the IE1 bit, but given it's obviously not working now that's the next step. If you screw up like I did you'll kill the EEPROM though, which will kill the set without a clean replacement, so tie the WP pin high and make a copy first! Make sure to read back over my posts in this thread though, for a complete picture.

That set must have a Micro, and an EEPROM which may feed both it and the Jungle IC. Very importantly - where does the Micro dump the OSD - into the RGB inputs or RGB outputs of the Jungle IC on that set? (If it was outputs you really didn't need to cut the lines. If inputs, I don't see why what you're doing isn't working.)


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 Post subject: Re: TV RGB mod thread
PostPosted: Fri Mar 31, 2017 6:20 am 



Joined: 24 Jul 2016
Posts: 58
buttersoft wrote:
syboxez wrote:
So... some problems. OSD is all black as expected since I cut the OSD RGB lines, and when I flip the switch for OSD blanking, the entire screen goes black. All good so far. When I try feeding in RGB to the jungle IC instead of the OSD, nothing happens. It's just a black screen. Sync is working fine since I am seeing no interlacing and a very faint image (or a full image if I'm using Luma as sync) when the blanking is off. When I turn the blanking on, I continue to get a sync signal, but the screen is entirely black.

On the bright side, I accidentally discovered how to use YPbPr component on this TV, so that's nice, but I still want RGB.

I have tried feeding RGB through a 0.1 uf ceramic cap, and directly, both times tying them to ground with 75 ohm resistors.


Take a look 4 posts above yours :)

I'm not sure that's the answer, as I failed to achieve setting the IE1 bit, but given it's obviously not working now that's the next step. If you screw up like I did you'll kill the EEPROM though, which will kill the set without a clean replacement, so tie the WP pin high and make a copy first! Make sure to read back over my posts in this thread though, for a complete picture.

That set must have a Micro, and an EEPROM which may feed both it and the Jungle IC. Very importantly - where does the Micro dump the OSD - into the RGB inputs or RGB outputs of the Jungle IC on that set? (If it was outputs you really didn't need to cut the lines. If inputs, I don't see why what you're doing isn't working.)


OSD goes into the RGB inputs.


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 Post subject: Re: TV RGB mod thread
PostPosted: Fri Mar 31, 2017 8:26 am 


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syboxez wrote:
OSD goes into the RGB inputs.


Rgr. Just wanted to make sure you weren't having the same problem I was. But then again, maybe you are. Like i said, it really should just work for you. I tried every combination of sync/blanking/OSD/RGBinputs, and couldn't get anything to show, even over the OSD. You KNOW your inputs are turned on, the OSD feeds into them - I'm assuming you've traced that, not just taken the datasheet at its word? If so, something else must be going on with the TDA884X series. I'd love to know what.


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 Post subject: Re: TV RGB mod thread
PostPosted: Fri Mar 31, 2017 10:09 pm 



Joined: 24 Jul 2016
Posts: 58
SUCCESS! I removed the 75 Ohm resistors, and it (almost) started working. Blanking just made the screen black, so I just fed 5v (with a switch) directly to the OSD's blanking output pin, and it worked.

Picture seems too bright, so I'm going to try new 75 Ohm resistors and see how that goes. I am still using 0.1uf caps for RGB lines.

EDIT: 75 Ohm resistors to ground makes it black again. Strange.

EDIT2: Removed the resistors again and just turned the brightness down. Picture looks perfect now.

EDIT3: Pictures:
https://imgur.com/a/Vmt06

Turns out this TV accepts TTL CSync just fine, although I still want to find out how to properly attenuate my SNES Mini.


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 Post subject: Re: TV RGB mod thread
PostPosted: Sat Apr 01, 2017 1:37 am 


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syboxez wrote:
SUCCESS! I removed the 75 Ohm resistors, and it (almost) started working. Blanking just made the screen black, so I just fed 5v (with a switch) directly to the OSD's blanking output pin, and it worked.

Picture seems too bright, so I'm going to try new 75 Ohm resistors and see how that goes. I am still using 0.1uf caps for RGB lines.

EDIT: 75 Ohm resistors to ground makes it black again. Strange.

EDIT2: Removed the resistors again and just turned the brightness down. Picture looks perfect now.

EDIT3: Pictures:
https://imgur.com/a/Vmt06

Turns out this TV accepts TTL CSync just fine, although I still want to find out how to properly attenuate my SNES Mini.


So what did you do differently? I thought you were feeding 5V to the blanking pin all along?


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 Post subject: Re: TV RGB mod thread
PostPosted: Sat Apr 01, 2017 1:49 am 



Joined: 01 Apr 2017
Posts: 7
I was originally going to mod a KV-24FV10, but I've since come across 2 PVMs: a 14M2U, which seems to be quite decent, and a sparsely-documented 14N1U which only has composite and S-Video. I can't find any sort of service manual for the N1U. Has anyone attempted a mod on a PVM?


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 Post subject: Re: TV RGB mod thread
PostPosted: Sat Apr 01, 2017 3:08 am 



Joined: 24 Jul 2016
Posts: 58
buttersoft wrote:
syboxez wrote:
SUCCESS! I removed the 75 Ohm resistors, and it (almost) started working. Blanking just made the screen black, so I just fed 5v (with a switch) directly to the OSD's blanking output pin, and it worked.

Picture seems too bright, so I'm going to try new 75 Ohm resistors and see how that goes. I am still using 0.1uf caps for RGB lines.

EDIT: 75 Ohm resistors to ground makes it black again. Strange.

EDIT2: Removed the resistors again and just turned the brightness down. Picture looks perfect now.

EDIT3: Pictures:
https://imgur.com/a/Vmt06

Turns out this TV accepts TTL CSync just fine, although I still want to find out how to properly attenuate my SNES Mini.


So what did you do differently? I thought you were feeding 5V to the blanking pin all along?


I was. The jungle IC needs 2.5v, and the OSD's blanking output goes through a 1/2 voltage divider. I figured it out by looking at the blanking pin on the jungle IC through an oscilloscope and seeing that it was 2.5Vpp with the OSD displaying something on the screen, so I figured that a constant 2.5v would blank the whole thing, and it did.


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 Post subject: Re: TV RGB mod thread
PostPosted: Sat Apr 01, 2017 11:06 am 


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v.nice. Wish i had the money for a scope :(


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 Post subject: Re: TV RGB mod thread
PostPosted: Sat Apr 01, 2017 4:35 pm 



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Posts: 58
buttersoft wrote:
v.nice. Wish i had the money for a scope :(


Mine's just a cheapo one from eBay that I got for around $25


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 Post subject: Re: TV RGB mod thread
PostPosted: Sat Apr 01, 2017 6:18 pm 



Joined: 01 Apr 2017
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syboxez wrote:
buttersoft wrote:
v.nice. Wish i had the money for a scope :(


Mine's just a cheapo one from eBay that I got for around $25

I guess I hadn't even considered the possibility of super cheap eBay scopes. Are they even remotely reliable​? If so I might have to pick one up.


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 Post subject: Re: TV RGB mod thread
PostPosted: Sat Apr 01, 2017 9:23 pm 



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L5hunter wrote:
syboxez wrote:
buttersoft wrote:
v.nice. Wish i had the money for a scope :(


Mine's just a cheapo one from eBay that I got for around $25

I guess I hadn't even considered the possibility of super cheap eBay scopes. Are they even remotely reliable​? If so I might have to pick one up.


I haven't had any problems so far. You can't expect amazing quality, but for the price it's not terrible.


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 Post subject: Re: TV RGB mod thread
PostPosted: Sat Apr 01, 2017 9:59 pm 


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Im new new to this RGB TV modding and have been trying to gather as much info on this as possible and plan on doing this mod to a sony kv-36hs420.

I have great soldering skills. So far to my knowledge I have to solder 3 wires (Red, Green and Blue)to the jungle IC and then to the scart socket with one 0.1uf capacitor in between on each cable. Then wire in a 75ohm resistor from the ground wire to each rgb wire? Now what do I do with the csync wire and what is this 5v blanking I have to do?

Has anyone got a step by step for doing this on a sony kv-36hs420?

Thanks in advance


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 Post subject: Re: TV RGB mod thread
PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2017 1:08 am 



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L5hunter wrote:
syboxez wrote:

I guess I hadn't even considered the possibility of super cheap eBay scopes. Are they even remotely reliable​? If so I might have to pick one up.


I haven't had any problems so far. You can't expect amazing quality, but for the price it's not terrible.

Other than general build quality, what's the difference between a nice scope and a cheap scope?


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 Post subject: Re: TV RGB mod thread
PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2017 3:59 am 


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Oldskoolmaniac wrote:
Im new new to this RGB TV modding and have been trying to gather as much info on this as possible and plan on doing this mod to a sony kv-36hs420.

I have great soldering skills. So far to my knowledge I have to solder 3 wires (Red, Green and Blue)to the jungle IC and then to the scart socket with one 0.1uf capacitor in between on each cable. Then wire in a 75ohm resistor from the ground wire to each rgb wire? Now what do I do with the csync wire and what is this 5v blanking I have to do?

Has anyone got a step by step for doing this on a sony kv-36hs420?

Thanks in advance


The Kv-36hs420 is no bueno as far as RGB modding goes. I don't know of any consumer CRT set that can do 1080 and also be RGB modded.


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 Post subject: Re: TV RGB mod thread
PostPosted: Mon Apr 03, 2017 12:19 am 



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Oldskoolmaniac wrote:
Im new new to this RGB TV modding and have been trying to gather as much info on this as possible and plan on doing this mod to a sony kv-36hs420.

I have great soldering skills. So far to my knowledge I have to solder 3 wires (Red, Green and Blue)to the jungle IC and then to the scart socket with one 0.1uf capacitor in between on each cable. Then wire in a 75ohm resistor from the ground wire to each rgb wire? Now what do I do with the csync wire and what is this 5v blanking I have to do?

Has anyone got a step by step for doing this on a sony kv-36hs420?

Thanks in advance

Honestly, I wouldn't even bother with that set. It has HDMI already, I'd just convert it to that. It wouldn't be ideal but it would be the best solution.


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 Post subject: Re: TV RGB mod thread
PostPosted: Wed Apr 05, 2017 12:26 am 


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Im using a pvm for all my old game, but sadly its way to small. My sony is strictly for the ps2 and wii. I do have other tube tv stored around here witch don't do 1080. Ill have to check there model number later.


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 Post subject: Re: TV RGB mod thread
PostPosted: Wed Apr 05, 2017 12:30 am 


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Oldskoolmaniac wrote:
Im using a pvm for all my old game, but sadly its way to small. My sony is strictly for the ps2 and wii. I do have other tube tv stored around here witch don't do 1080. Ill have to check there model number later.


If it's a Sony, look for around 1995 to 2002/2003ish non 1080/720/480p sets. In my experience that's the sweet spot.


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