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 Post subject: Re: TV RGB mod thread
PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2017 8:38 pm 



Joined: 20 Mar 2016
Posts: 19
tjsynkral wrote:
Can you point me to the 27TS29 service manual? I'm not finding it on Google.

It's unlikely this is causing your picture problem but I would definitely suggest the resistor on 5v (I've fried a jungle IC and it's not fun).

Shortening the wires may improve the situation. Also try some different consoles, the issue might just affect the PS1. (If you have let me know which ones you tried.)



Sure I am using this one. https://elektrotanya.com/sony_kv-27ts29_kv-27ts32_kv-27ts36_kv-32ts36_kv-32ts46_chassis_aa-1.pdf/download.html
and the jungle is cxa1465as http://www.alldatasheet.com/datasheet-p ... 465AS.html in case you needed to look at that.

ya good idea, Its not like I don't have a bunch of parts.. lol

True, I have been kicking my self as all my consoles are in storage and they are really deep in there. I will try to do my best today to do some digging but I not feeling the best today.


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 Post subject: Re: TV RGB mod thread
PostPosted: Thu Mar 09, 2017 4:07 am 



Joined: 09 Mar 2017
Posts: 1
So I'm 99% certain I won't do this, not because I don't trust myself (I don't, but I try not to let that stop me) but because I'm fairly certain my TV (Sanyo ds20425-00, found my service manual here) doesn't have anywhere to intercept the rgb or forcibly blank the osd, and just handles all that jazz in the LA76950 chip (which I cannot find any further info on).

You guys seem to know what you're doing, so I figured I may as well ask here before giving up entirely. Is there a way? If not, no big deal, it's got s-video and component so I'm not exactly hurting for quality, I just thought it would be something cool to do with my time and not feel like a waste of a person.

I suppose I may as well also ask if anybody could figure how to adjust horizontal size and compression just from looking at the manual, because the video is a bit wider than I'd like and sort of shrinks towards the edges. I know that's off topic and probably just an inherent problem with the geometry of the thing or whatever but like I said, you guys seem to know what's what.

I suppose that's all the questions that I have, thanks for your time either way, have a nice day.


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 Post subject: Re: TV RGB mod thread
PostPosted: Sat Mar 11, 2017 6:58 am 



Joined: 01 Mar 2017
Posts: 2
I'm attempting to mod a Sony Trinitron kv-27fs100, and I can't get the image synced. The image is quickly rolling or flickering, but through the noise I can make out the RGB image. It's basically exactly like capsulej described on page 5 of this thread, and it's even the same model number. A couple of pages later he says he was able to fix his issue, but didn't mention what he did.

capsulej: if you're still around, would you care to elaborate on what the problem was?

My setup is a Raspberry Pi with Gert's 666 VGA adapter and a CSYNC circuit to combine the H and V sync. I also tried it with a PI2SCART adapter, which is similar but hashas built-in CSYNC.

RGB are terminated with 75 Ohm resistors and go through 0.1uF caps to pins 41-43 on the jungle IC. I feed 5V from a TV line directly into blanking pin 40 (I haven't tried using a pullup resistor there, but the blanking seems to be fine). I have tied the ground from the Pi into the TV ground. For the sync, I've tried feeding my CSYNC into composite, component Y, and S-VIDEO Y inputs without any luck. I've also tried feeding it directly to pin 50 (DVDY-IN) of the jungle IC, but that didn't work either. I've tried a direct connection and terminating with 75 Ohms but that doesn't help.

For the actual connections I removed the surface-mount components next to the input pins, then soldered my connections directly to the pins on the solder side of the board. I've attached wires to the other sides of the removed components as well, and if I hook them back up through the appropriate caps/resistors I can get the original OSD back without issue.

I'm prototyping this on a breadboard, but the connections seem fine. I'll also admit that the soldered wires are longer than they probably need to be (and maybe not routed optimally along the solder side of the board), but I don't really want to trim them until I do a final setup. I have tried using only a couple of inches between the Pi and the composite/component/s-video input though and that didn't help either.

Any ideas on what to try? Thanks!


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 Post subject: Re: TV RGB mod thread
PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 4:47 pm 



Joined: 20 Jan 2016
Posts: 63
BobWoggle wrote:
I suppose I may as well also ask if anybody could figure how to adjust horizontal size and compression just from looking at the manual, because the video is a bit wider than I'd like and sort of shrinks towards the edges. I know that's off topic and probably just an inherent problem with the geometry of the thing or whatever but like I said, you guys seem to know what's what.


Direct your attention to the "Service Adjustments" section of the service manual.

BobWoggle wrote:
So I'm 99% certain I won't do this, not because I don't trust myself (I don't, but I try not to let that stop me) but because I'm fairly certain my TV (Sanyo ds20425-00, found my service manual here) doesn't have anywhere to intercept the rgb or forcibly blank the osd, and just handles all that jazz in the LA76950 chip (which I cannot find any further info on).


I'd have to agree, your set cannot be modified in the traditional way. I can't find any information about how the component signal enters the jungle IC, though, I figured there may be some hope of switching the component input to an RGB input but better documentation is needed.


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 Post subject: Re: TV RGB mod thread
PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 4:50 pm 



Joined: 20 Jan 2016
Posts: 63
2skoops wrote:
My setup is a Raspberry Pi with Gert's 666 VGA adapter and a CSYNC circuit to combine the H and V sync. I also tried it with a PI2SCART adapter, which is similar but hashas built-in CSYNC.

RGB are terminated with 75 Ohm resistors and go through 0.1uF caps to pins 41-43 on the jungle IC. I feed 5V from a TV line directly into blanking pin 40 (I haven't tried using a pullup resistor there, but the blanking seems to be fine). I have tied the ground from the Pi into the TV ground. For the sync, I've tried feeding my CSYNC into composite, component Y, and S-VIDEO Y inputs without any luck. I've also tried feeding it directly to pin 50 (DVDY-IN) of the jungle IC, but that didn't work either. I've tried a direct connection and terminating with 75 Ohms but that doesn't help.


It does seem like the problem is your sync input. Do you have a game console you could try? The Pi stuff may not be outputting a signal that a NTSC TV knows how to accept. Of course, make sure the TV is switched to the input you're using for sync.


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 Post subject: Re: TV RGB mod thread
PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2017 1:07 am 



Joined: 01 Mar 2017
Posts: 2
Thanks for the response tjsynkral. Yeah, I try to match the input to the sync input I'm using, but I don't notice a difference in the screen if I switch to a different input either.

Unfortunately I don't have any other console to try. I'm outputting what should be a 240p signal from the Pi, but I guess I don't have a good way or veryifying that. I do know that other people on this thread have sourced their RGB signal from VGA though, and I know people have been successful with Pi VGA to RGB TVs, so this should be possible. But at this point I guess I don't have a good way of knowing if the problem is what the Pi is outputting, or an issue with my RGB mod.


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 Post subject: Re: TV RGB mod thread
PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2017 3:57 pm 


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Joined: 16 Feb 2005
Posts: 832
nem wrote:
The video input card has a TDA8366 I2C-bus controlled PAL/NTSC TV processor. It has RGB input and output pins. The output pins lead to one of the connectors which connects the input card to the motherboard. I don't know if they go anywhere from there. I would have to pull out the motherboard to find out.

Here's the pinout of the processor:

http://circuits.datasheetdir.com/377/TDA8366-pinout.jpg


Alright, my first attempt at this resulted in absolutely nothing showing up.

My first question is regarding fast blanking, which is pin 24. The data sheet has this to say:

Image

So data insertion is > 0.9V. Do I need to care about 'Maximum input pulse'?

For the record, supply voltage for this chip is 8V. What should I be feeding this pin?


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 Post subject: Re: TV RGB mod thread
PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2017 5:18 pm 


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Joined: 15 Apr 2016
Posts: 40
.9v is the amount needed for it to blank the osd only. 3v or more is what is needed for the whole screen to blank. I usually just use 5v.


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 Post subject: Re: TV RGB mod thread
PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 5:12 pm 



Joined: 20 Mar 2016
Posts: 19
Hi all,
An update to my situation, I got my ps1 cable after alot of bs.
The cable I got was the sync on luma kind, I still have the same issues with it as the cheapo one.

I brought in my super nes and that had the same issue, I redid my wiring shorting it up nothing.
I replaced my caps thinking they might be bad, nope same issue.

Right now I am thinking of just saying screw it and using the osd rgb lines and forget about using the PIP rgb lines...

Any thoughts before I proceed down that line?

Thanks guys


Update:

So ya I feel ridiculous apparently not lifting rgb pins 16, 17, 18 and connecting straight to the chip was the issue.
I will be finishing the wiring and screwing it all back together then post some pics for all to see.
It looks really good, but I can tell I need to do some adjustments.

Thanks everyone for there help, I was just over complicating a simple thing..


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 Post subject: Re: TV RGB mod thread
PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 10:13 am 



Joined: 14 Oct 2013
Posts: 41
KnuckleheadFlow wrote:
Wow, do I feel stupid. If your TV's jungle IC needs it, going from 0.7 Vpp to 0.5 Vpp is dead simple. Looking for video attenuation examples I realized that superguns with SCART connectors need to do this to drop the ~3 Vpp JAMMA RGB to 0.7 Vpp.
I had a look at this guy's supergun and long story short, a 30 Ω resistor in series with the RGB input before the 75 Ω terminations will make a voltage divider that'll attenuate the typical console's 0.7 Vpp to 0.5 Vpp.

My reasoning being that in the above supergun we've got:
Code:
JAMMA RGB in (3 Vpp) ---[R1 180Ω]---[optional 250Ω pot]--- --- AD8073 amps then SCART RGB out (0.7Vpp)
                                                          |
                                                          |--- AD725 encoder IC
                                                          |
                                                       [R2 75Ω]
                                                          |
                                                          |
                                                         GND


For our purposes we can ignore the AD8073 amplifiers (probably) since that's accounting for the RGB being split to his encoder IC (AD725) and SCART connector. All that matters is the voltage divider. A regular resistive voltage divider is:
Code:
V in ---[R1]--- --- V out
               |
              [R2]
               |
              GND

with
V out = R2/R1+R2 * V in


So with that supergun, R1 is 180 Ω (+ optional 250 Ω pot) and R2 is 75Ω to go from 2.3 Vpp (I guess that's the typical JAMMA RGB signal and the pots are there for stronger boards sending 3 V?) to 0.7 Vpp. Our R2 will also be 75 Ω and we want to go from 0.7 V in to 0.5 V out so...
Code:
0.5 V = (75Ω / xΩ + 75Ω) * 0.7 V
...
x = 30Ω


Add a pot along with that 30 Ω resistor in case you get something with stronger signals and Bob's your uncle. It's really simple and I'm surprised it took me this long to figure out.


I've done this but i still have an image that seems to suffer from a to powerful signal.
If i lower the Screen pot on the flyback and put the brightness setting at 0, the image is dark. RGB is there, but it's just dark.
If i then increase the brigthness, the image gets greyish.

Look at this picture and you can see the "black" area on the right side. It should be black and not bright grey :/
Image


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 Post subject: Re: TV RGB mod thread
PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 12:39 pm 



Joined: 20 Mar 2017
Posts: 1
Location: United States
Hello all. I wanted to try this for my MAME cabinet as a arcade monitor is expensive. I have a JVC AV-27020 and I tried following the guide but I hit a small snag. I realized I need to use VGA and this is mainly for SCART. Anyone know if it would work. Also I know VGA has HSYNC and VSYNC so I am confused on which of those to connect and also what pin to hook it up to. I noticed that the person that got the JVC AV-27020 working also pull power but I am not sure where that goes either.

ANy help is greatly appreciated.


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 Post subject: Re: TV RGB mod thread
PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 10:39 pm 



Joined: 03 Dec 2015
Posts: 50
Location: Norway
Did you remember to add the clamping capacitors?


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 Post subject: Re: TV RGB mod thread
PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2017 9:27 am 



Joined: 14 Oct 2013
Posts: 41
Star1 wrote:
Did you remember to add the clamping capacitors?


Yes


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 Post subject: Re: TV RGB mod thread
PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2017 12:51 pm 



Joined: 03 Dec 2015
Posts: 50
Location: Norway
frsj8112 wrote:
Star1 wrote:
Did you remember to add the clamping capacitors?


Yes


hmm, weird. I also have a jungle ic that nees 0.5 instead of 0.7v. I used a 30 ohm before the 75 ohm termination, works like a charm.


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 Post subject: Re: TV RGB mod thread
PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 5:14 am 



Joined: 30 Dec 2016
Posts: 1
After reading through all the info in this thread, I took on a Toshiba 27A32 as a weekend project. Here is the jungle IC from the service manual for this set:

Image

Pins 20, 21, 22 for R, G, B, (isolated from existing circuit, on a switch, 75ohm terminated, 0.1uf ceramics, fed from a scart connector) and 19 for blanking (switched tie to pin 2 for 5v). I started off using the svideo luma for sync, but just got a rolling image. This TV has some input sensing to activate the svideo over composite as they share audio inputs. Plugging any svideo cable in would trigger the switch and sync the image. Neat! But, the image was dark. Between Brightness in the picture menu, and RGB Contrast in the service menu, I got it looking better, but not great.

The next day I was fiddling with it and realized that the TV tuner input also has a dark filter (to keep the snow from burning your eyes / phosphor?) when there is no solid signal. In fact, (almost) ALL the inputs were very dark until a signal is detected. The only input without this is the "Color Stream" input. Turns out that's Toshiba's fancy name for the YPbPr composite RCAs, so I moved sync to Y.

This seemed to work great! The picture was bright and colorful. So bright that when the screen flashed white, the set would power off. Before remembering that I jacked the settings up the day before (reverting these seems to have solved the power-off problem) I found a Japanese data sheet for the IC:

Image

Apparently he blanking pin doesn't expect more than 3.3v, but others in this thread have fed 5v in the same situation without issues. I had also tried adding a 10k pot to ground (the original blanking signal has a 2.2kohm) which only seemed to cause more problems, so it was removed. Anyway, I didn't really take pictures of the install, but here is the end result:

Image Image

Now I also have an ESA ET427E set, which is apparently a variation of a SYLVANIA SST4274S with this m61271m8-058fp IC

Image

I can't find this datasheet, so maybe someone can shed some light on this chip. Is seems the OSD functions are built right in, but maybe some unused pins (34, 35, 36?) are an RGB input. That would be cool.


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 Post subject: Re: TV RGB mod thread
PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 9:44 pm 


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Joined: 15 Apr 2016
Posts: 40
Nice job. I can't find anything out on that 1chip Micon/Jungle. There's only one way to find out. Hook it up! It's probably a surface mount chip so be careful and good luck.


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 Post subject: Re: TV RGB mod thread
PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 9:55 pm 


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Joined: 15 Apr 2016
Posts: 40
On a side note does anyone know the correct of caps and resistors for a CXA1145? The scart cable I got for my Japanese Master system to me has the image too dim. It has a 220uf cap and 75ohm resistor in series at the end of the scart head. I opened up the Master System and there was a 75ohm resistor and 100uf cap in series on the RGB outputs from the CXA1145. The datasheet says it needs one 75ohm res and 470 cap in series only.

https://console5.com/techwiki/images/f/fb/CXA1145PM.pdf

Am I correct that the capacitance in the original configuration would be (100+220)/2=160uf? And the resistance would be off also with 75+75=150. I just removed all the caps and resistors from the end of the scart head and replaced the 100uf caps on the board with 470uf ones. It seems to be looking a lot better.


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 Post subject: Re: TV RGB mod thread
PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 9:59 pm 


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Joined: 08 Jan 2016
Posts: 228
I generally don't like to tie blanking directly high, but would rather simply pull it high with a resistor. If I've messed up somewhere, that prevents me from sinking 5V or 3.3V directly into the wrong pin, or some other CMOS device driving low, etc.


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