questions on xrgb mini ultimate gaming setup.

[welshmouse]

Hi all,

I have been doing a lot of research lately, but am having a lot of trouble finding the info I need.

I'm looking to create the ultimate home gaming setup, with a large number of consoles hooked up at once to either one or two TVs.
The xrgb mini seems like a great device, buy it seems as though it needs to be setup for each console and pitwntualy reconnected for every use.

What I am hoping to do is connect all my consoles to an av receiver, and use a single output to the xrgb mini.
What sort of caveats are there to using the devices in this way?

What I'm looking for is a setup that's the least hassle to actually play games. I'm not worried about getting the best pq, but I can't handle the horrible native scaling of my TV either.

Another option I'm considering is to use a CRT monitor for older devices and a plasma for newer ones, with a receiver sending to one of the two displays. I would likely still want a scaler for at least the 3d consoles going to the plasma, but this may be a better option.

With either of these setups, would it be possible to use static settings so I dont need to reconfigure the xrgb for every console I use?

Appreciate any help you all can offer.

[welshmouse]

I habe decided to stick with a single display and have ordeted my xrgb mini.

After lots.more research, it seems that tracking down scart cables for.my cnsoles.and using a scart switch is the best option.

Things would.be much easier if i could use component for ps2/wii. Can anyone weigh in on the possibility of mixing the two rypes in a way that doesnt require recabling every time?

[mickcris]

You could get a component switch also. I use an Audio Authority 1154A connected to my av receiver. I also have an xrgb mnin connected to the same receiver. Used 1154a switches come up on ebay for fairly cheap pretty often. Monoprice has a cheap switch also, but it doesn't have optical audio if you need that.

[bobrocks95]

The Monoprice powered component switch adds a lot of noise and signal degradation, I'd avoid it.

[broken harbour]

The Monoprice powered component switch adds a lot of noise and signal degradation, I'd avoid it.

I have it, I haven't noticed anything wrong with it, no noise, degradation, nothing.

Maybe you had a bad one? I just wish they made one with more inputs.

What I am hoping to do is connect all my consoles to an av receiver, and use a single output to the xrgb mini.

What I'm looking for is a setup that's the least hassle to actually play games. I'm not worried about getting the best pq, but I can't handle the horrible native scaling of my TV either.

With either of these setups, would it be possible to use static settings so I dont need to reconfigure the xrgb for every console I use?

I wanted the same thing, so I just run everything into switches (scart, component, etc), and then into the mini. The only thing I have to do is tweak the V scaler setting depending if the system/game outputs 480i or 240p/480p.

[bobrocks95]

I have it, I haven't noticed anything wrong with it, no noise, degradation, nothing.

Maybe you had a bad one? I just wish they made one with more inputs.

Hmmm, we're talking about this one right? http://www.monoprice.com/Product?c_id=1 ... 1&format=2
I inadvertently got two for Christmas one year, and both added very visible noise to dark colors on my plasma when compared with a direct connection. Either they re-designed it at some point or it's just not as noticeable on some displays. Or maybe both were bad? Seems unlikely, but I guess it's possible.

[broken harbour]

Yup that's the one I have, works just great.

[welshmouse]

Excellent, thanks for the tips.

I have my eye on a receiver, but I may just get a component switch for now.
I have seen non-scaling HDMI adapters for Wii, which could be great for getting a 480p signal into the xrgb for GC games. How does the mini behave if you have both the component and HDMI slots in use at the same time? Can you just switch inputs?

Would dreamcast suffer a lot of degradation if I use the VGA to component adapter into a switch and then to the xrgb mini?

I may then stick with composite for the older 2d consoles (or even just emulate them when I actually want to play..)

[CkRtech]

Would dreamcast suffer a lot of degradation if I use the VGA to component adapter into a switch and then to the xrgb mini?

What are you using for your VGA out on your Dreamcast? You can output RGBs from the Dreamcast and run 240p/480i/480p to the xRGB with something like the Toro VGA box.

[welshmouse]

Currently I'm still susing composite for the DC. Will buy an adapter soon.I specifically want to leave all my consoles cononected though, are you saying this adapter will connect to the existing component switch or Another unused port on the mini?

I'm finally getting some sort of idea on the final setup. I've given up on a receiver (will use powered speakers) and will use some collected of adapters and switches. I'm not sure of the best setup that will be capable of remaining static. Most consoles I'll probably go component or composite. Dc is the one that may be difficult.

[Glossectomy]

If you're going with composite and component why even use the xrgb?

[welshmouse]

Because these consoles appear as a blurry mess on my tv. It was my understanding that the xrgb is a much better scaler than the one built into most TVs. Is that not correct?

[Reclaimer]

Because these consoles appear as a blurry mess on my tv. It was my understanding that the xrgb is a much better scaler than the one built into most TVs. Is that not correct?

The XRGB mini is fantastic, you are going to love it. However, it can only cook the best dish with the best ingredients, so don't feed it crap like composite and expect to get top quality results.

Check out this link for how to get RGB video out of each of your systems,if you are going as far as getting an XRGB, you might as well get your money's worth. http://www.retrorgb.com/systems.html

[welshmouse]

I have already gone through this and am aware of the best connections. But i don't see a way of using a dozen different hookups for all my consoles. Screenshots seem to show only a small difference between connection types, and I'd rather take a hit to PQ than have to constantly reconnect different consoles with different cables.

Bear in mind that I live in new Zealand, a small island that's miles from anywhere. Electronics are hard to come by and expensive. I'm not going to spend thousands of dollars on av equipment to get slightly better colors out of some consoles.

I plan to use component for ps2 (which also plays ps1), Wii (plays GC)
VGA - component adapter for DC
Composite for Saturn

And I'm leaning towards getting a retron 5 for the older consoles.

As you can tell, I want a good compromise between PQ and ease of use. I'm still willing to hear alternatives, but if you think I should use different cables, I'd need to also be shown adapters/multis that i can use in conjunction so that every console can be hooked up at once .

[mattbox]

It's difficult to capture the difference in quality over photos, but it's there. For your systems it's pretty easy to upgrade to RGB in the future. The only thing that might be expensive would be a SCART switch, but then you can have auto switch capabilities. Just keep an open mind to it.

The only think I'd recommend against would be buying a Retron 5. It's an emulation machine that runs software you can download for free. Loading games is slow and build quality is pretty poor. If you gonna go the emulation route just get some controller to USB adapters and play on your computer

[Josh128]

Currently I'm still susing composite for the DC. Will buy an adapter soon.I specifically want to leave all my consoles cononected though, are you saying this adapter will connect to the existing component switch or Another unused port on the mini?

I'm finally getting some sort of idea on the final setup. I've given up on a receiver (will use powered speakers) and will use some collected of adapters and switches. I'm not sure of the best setup that will be capable of remaining static. Most consoles I'll probably go component or composite. Dc is the one that may be difficult.

You know that the DC and Saturn work with a SCART cable right? You have a Xrgb mini, thats by FAR the most expensive piece of kit, and you already have it. It NEEDS RGB, component, or at the absolute minimum S-Video to produce results. I dont want to burst your bubble but composite should be out of the question when outputting to any HDTV.

The nasty blurriness you are seeing is composite-- its not the scaler in your TV,-- if you feed your set a good component or SCART RGB signal it will look good even without a Xrgb, but the Framemeister will help it look even better on 1080p sets.

Get a SCART switch, some SCART cables for your DC and Saturn (dont worry about VGA on the DC, unless the mini can use that). Absolutely DO NOT get an HDMI converter for Wii-- why would you do that when it has component out? Feed component to your mini or better yet, straight to your TV set. Use a component switch for your Wii and PS2.

Please, please, please-- know that composite vs ANYTHING other than an RF modulator is JUNK-- it is not simply a "minor upgrade" from composite to RGB, S Video, or Component -- if rating composite on my plasmas to RGB or component, I would give composite a "2", while giving the others a "10". Its not even close. S-video may not have the vibrant colors of RGB or Component, but it has the sharpness, and it was the best signal I had for years here in the States. I highly recommend using it if thats your only other option, as its a really good signal in its own right.

Since the Xrgb can accept Svideo, at the absolute worst case, use that instead of composite. If you have an NES, I understand RGB modding it is a hard sell-- but its worth it, I HIGHLY recommend it.

[Glossectomy]

Yea, composite still looks really bad through the xrgb. Maybe slightly better than your TVs upscaler. And component isn't really worth a $300 something purchase for the slight increase in quality.

[welshmouse]

Alright, thanks everyone for the advice.

Is dc not going to be much better in vga versus scart? (240p vs 480p is double the res)

Ill try and hunt down scart for the others except wii and ps2 on component.

Component from my wii is still a blurry mess on my tv though, so i hope you are exagerating. If thats the best quality i can get even with an xrgb, theb ill probably end up regretting it.

Does abyone know a single dite that sells scart cables for lots of consiles and that ships international?

[Josh128]

Alright, thanks everyone for the advice.

Is dc not going to be much better in vga versus scart? (240p vs 480p is double the res)

Ill try and hunt down scart for the others except wii and ps2 on component.

Component from my wii is still a blurry mess on my tv though, so i hope you are exagerating. If thats the best quality i can get even with an xrgb, theb ill probably end up regretting it.

Does abyone know a single dite that sells scart cables for lots of consiles and that ships international?

Most DC games are 480i, not 240p, but yes, for many games, VGA will be superior. But the difference isnt a deal breaker. For games like SF3, 240p is actually preferred.

Regarding the Wii, if its component is blurry, then converting it to HDMI wont help-- converting it wont change the source signal, only add some lag. What sort of TV are you using? I find Wii looks terrific on my plasma, the Samsung F4500 series, check the thread here on it for pictures. What sharpness settings are you using-- try jacking it up and see if it helps.

[welshmouse]

Currently I'm using a sony kdl42 w800.
When i bought it, it was the lowest input lag LED tv you could get.
I'm thinking about getting a plasma again (last one died), but i might wait to see what happens with oled.

Im also using unnoficial component cables for my wii. I wonder if thats the problem.

Its a little annoying though, as the main reason i was buying the xrgb is i hoped it would improve gc and ps1 games.

[Josh128]

Currently I'm using a sony kdl42 w800.
When i bought it, it was the lowest input lag LED tv you could get.
I'm thinking about getting a plasma again (last one died), but i might wait to see what happens with oled.

Im also using unnoficial component cables for my wii. I wonder if thats the problem.

Its a little annoying though, as the main reason i was buying the xrgb is i hoped it would improve gc and ps1 games.

Quality component cables definitely make a difference for the Wii. I recommend the Rocketfish branded ones as they fixed some noise/crosstalk problems I had with the cheap no-name ones. They would probably help a little, but I wouldnt expect miracles from them. Are you using 480p or 480i setting on the Wii? Widescreen setting?

Im surprised the XRGB cant scale the Wii's 480p well enough on a 1080p set-- can you enable 480p on it and enable some light scanlines? Theoretically that should provide the best picture on a 1080p set, but I have no idea if its possible. Can you post some pictures of the Wii in-game output on your set?

As for PS1, the xrgb should work wonders with its 240p signal, is it not?

[welshmouse]

Sorry, miscommunication. I dont have the xrgb yet. Its on order but will take a week or so.
You mentioned that component a hdtv wouldnt be improved much by the xrgb.


I guess il find out when it gets here.
I might get some better cables anyway. Ill update the thread once i have it. Thanks for the help.

[welshmouse]

A few more questions.

Ive seen some scart to component adapters. What are these likely to do to quality?
If i can have everything going into a single component switch and then into the mini it will make things much easier.

Also, wheb using the component to dsub adapter, do you still plugthe rca l/r audio into the mini?
If i need to plug thrm straight into the audio device it will ruin my setup.

[BuckoA51]

Don't use component on the Mini, use RGB, the picture is a lot better and a lot less fiddly to get right.

Grab an Extron Crosspoint switch if you need a lot of inputs and outputs.

Most DC games are 480i, not 240p, but yes, for many games, yes VGA will be superior. But the difference isnt a deal breaker.

Weren't you preaching in another thread how much better 480p was??

[Josh128]

Don't use component on the Mini, use RGB, the picture is a lot better and a lot less fiddly to get right.

Grab an Extron Crosspoint switch if you need a lot of inputs and outputs.

Most DC games are 480i, not 240p, but yes, for many games, yes VGA will be superior. But the difference isnt a deal breaker.

Weren't you preaching in another thread how much better 480p was??

What part of "but yes, for many games, VGA will be superior did you not understand? The OP is having problems getting an acceptable setup for multiple systems without breaking the bank. VGA is superior, for many games, just like I said above, but if this guy has problems with all these different signal and input types, I believe RGB is sufficient-- in fact Im using RGB on my DC for the same exact reason-- I dont have room for yet another adapter/converter to get the VGA to my HDMI or component inputs on my set. RGB 480i looks fine on DC-- would I prefer to have 480p VGA? Yes, but once again, just as I stated, its not a deal breaker /worth the inconvenience in this case. On the Wii and GC the difference between 480i and 480p is a matter of pressing a button/changing a setting.

Werent you preaching on that same other thread how much sharper 480i was than 480p in still shots in general, even after I posted several large paused screen photos of Sonic Adenture 2 Battle in my setup clearly showing otherwise?

You guys are something else man. I got Ed Oscuro and Bob in yet another thread, quite matter of factly, telling me that my original model SNES RGB output looks better than SVideo, despite the fact Ive tested it on my own setup,and the RGB was blurry compared to the SVideo. Because I dont have SVideo inputs on my plasma, I went as far as buying a SNES mini and modding it because the RGB from my original was so ugly, and the difference between the two was night and day. Why dont you jump on that bandwagon as well?

[Josh128]

A few more questions.

Ive seen some scart to component adapters. What are these likely to do to quality?
If i can have everything going into a single component switch and then into the mini it will make things much easier.

Also, wheb using the component to dsub adapter, do you still plugthe rca l/r audio into the mini?
If i need to plug thrm straight into the audio device it will ruin my setup.

Im currently using the most commonly available one on Ebay, the "YUV to component" converter, and although I have no way to test unconverted RGB to make a comparison, it looks fantastic on my setup, cant imagine the difference would readily visible, much less significant in any way. Zero lag added as well.

You already have a $400 Xrgb though, that can convert the RGB to HDMI. Couldnt you just feed all your RGB capable systems through a SCART switch to it, and all your component capable systems through a switch to to it, and come out HDMI to your set? If its a cabling room issue its understandable, but that will probably give you the optimum quality-- and with the setup your asking about you'll still need a SCART switch going into the component converter if you have multiple SCART/RGB systems, which is seems you do.

In any case, be careful what component switch you get, in my experience anything under $100 can cause some visible crosstalk/interference. I recommend an actively amplified matrix switch or one of the Audio Authority switches.

[BuckoA51]

What part of "but yes, for many games, VGA will be superior did you not understand?

The bit where you say "But the difference isn't a deal breaker".

Werent you preaching on that same other thread how much sharper 480i was than 480p in still shots in general, even after I posted several large paused screen photos of Sonic Adenture 2 Battle in my setup clearly showing otherwise?

No I wasn't at all, what I actually said was that on the Wii, 480i static images (and only static images) can look better/sharper than 480p, I also said that it hardly mattered since any advantage was negated once the image started moving, which tends to be most of the time.

On the Wii and GC the difference between 480i and 480p is a matter of pressing a button/changing a setting.

A simple hardware mod and/or a pre-modded VGA box (Hanzo etc) and it's the same on the Dreamcast. There's the added cost of buying some kind of sync combiner to use with the Mini if you just have a regular VGA box, but it's not that expensive/complicated.

Seriously guy, take a chill pill, just because someone questions something you've said don't make it into a personal attack.

[Josh128]

What part of "but yes, for many games, VGA will be superior did you not understand?

The bit where you say "But the difference isn't a deal breaker".

Werent you preaching on that same other thread how much sharper 480i was than 480p in still shots in general, even after I posted several large paused screen photos of Sonic Adenture 2 Battle in my setup clearly showing otherwise?

No I wasn't at all, what I actually said was that on the Wii, 480i static images (and only static images) can look better/sharper than 480p, I also said that it hardly mattered since any advantage was negated once the image started moving, which tends to be most of the time.

On the Wii and GC the difference between 480i and 480p is a matter of pressing a button/changing a setting.

A simple hardware mod and/or a pre-modded VGA box (Hanzo etc) and it's the same on the Dreamcast. There's the added cost of buying some kind of sync combiner to use with the Mini if you just have a regular VGA box, but it's not that expensive/complicated.

Seriously guy, take a chill pill, just because someone questions something you've said don't make it into a personal attack.

Sorry to be defensive, but I literally have about 3 or 4 people who seem to be questioning just about everything Im posting this forum, right down to whether and why S-Video eliminates dot crawl--really? Its beginning to feel like Im purposely being targeted/heckled.

I mean, was it really necessary to call me out on what I told this guy about Dreamcast RGB being acceptable? I did, and still do, prefer 480p to 480i when possible/feasible, that hasnt changed. I didnt contradict myself at all in saying what I said above. I think the OP understands exactly what I was telling him-- if price/pain is no object, go VGA, if you want a good, acceptable picture with a lot less hassle, RGB is fine. I have a Dreamcast VGA cable, but I dont have a Framemeister or whatever other device is needed to convert the VGA to HDMI-- but I bought a $15 SCART cable for my DC and it works great with my current cheap RGB to Component converter, so thats what Im using, and its acceptable to me vs. shelling out additional $$$ to get the VGA to my set. A price vs. performance call if you will. An example of what I would consider a deal-breaker would be to use composite out from the Dreamcast-- with all the other options out there, I personally feel that would be unacceptable.

And just for the record, I very much do believe that some systems 480i is better than others-- in my book, PS2 and DC have acceptable 480i, while I personally find Wii and GC 480i not as sharp, thats just my opinion. In all cases though, I prefer 480p if given the choice.

[Josh128]

Sorry, miscommunication. I dont have the xrgb yet. Its on order but will take a week or so.
You mentioned that component a hdtv wouldnt be improved much by the xrgb.


I guess il find out when it gets here.
I might get some better cables anyway. Ill update the thread once i have it. Thanks for the help.

Oh, yes, sorry there-- I thought you had it all this time and were not satisfied with the picture! As I understand, it can be a little tricky to set up properly-- be sure to check on the Xrgb mini thread for pointers and settings for getting the best possible picture.

I would love to hear (and see, if you can post photos) what it can do with the Wii signal especially. Please come back and let us know when you get it dialed in.

[BuckoA51]

I mean, was it really necessary to call me out on what I told this guy about Dreamcast RGB being acceptable?

Just seemed strange in the other thread you were defending 480p like the difference was night and day, even for still images (which given a good deinterlacer should theoretically be the same!).

Plus if you say something controversial like "S-Video is better than RGB" expect people to question that, but yeah, don't take it as a personal attack or anything. 480i on a regular HDTV is bad news for gaming since it often at least doubles input lag, but on the Mini it actually makes no difference as far as input lag is concerned. 480p is of course still preferable.