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 Post subject: Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler
PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 3:44 am 



Joined: 04 Jul 2010
Posts: 145
The vga port can accept all signals, correct?

I've been wondering about whether or not this would be a good option if future designs were needing to save space and maybe for adding other ports like av or s-video.
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 Post subject: Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler
PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 6:58 am 



Joined: 09 Apr 2012
Posts: 1857
headlesshobbs wrote:
The vga port can accept all signals, correct?

I've been wondering about whether or not this would be a good option if future designs were needing to save space and maybe for adding other ports like av or s-video.

To leave only VGA and remove Component and SCART to save space? It makes more sense to leave SCART and remove Component and VGA.

Adapters for SCART are cheaper and more available and more consoles use SCART natively. SCART also supports audio.


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 Post subject: Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler
PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 9:55 am 


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SCART also supports composite and S-Video in the spec


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 Post subject: Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler
PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 12:46 pm 


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Posts: 368
Location: America
I did some testing of the HD3000+OSSC and got some very nice results. unfortunately the HD3000 has some compatibility issues with a few of the OSSC's features.

OSSC direct 480p and 240p lineX2 modes, work fantastically with every system I've tried (even SNES). however 240p lineX3, LineX4 and LineX5 do not work on the HD3000 (just gives a "no signal" message) same with 480pX2 and 240p/480i passthrough (no signal). a bit disappointing but not really a problem as the HD3000 is known for its (legendary?) 480p upscaling!

(but I would love to hear any ideas you guys might have for settings to try with the HD3000 to improve compatibility)
@marqs, any idea why 480i passthrough wouldn't be working? (HD3000 seems to work fine with every other 480i HDMI source I've fed into it)


Sega Dreamcast VGA+OSSC+HD3000, OSSC 480p mode:DTV (without DTV setting HD3000 will see the resolution incorrectly as 640x480 instead of the proper 480p)

(VGA Box made by Thefoo.83)
Game: Soulcalibur (1999)
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Nintendo Wii+OSSC+HD3000, OSSC 480p mode: Auto, scanlines: 100%

Game: Streets of Rage 2: Syndicate Wars(2012) via retroarch wii)
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Last edited by Blair on Thu Apr 06, 2017 3:00 pm, edited 6 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler
PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 1:42 pm 


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Joined: 27 Apr 2015
Posts: 65
Location: New York
headlesshobbs wrote:
The vga port can accept all signals, correct?

I've been wondering about whether or not this would be a good option if future designs were needing to save space and maybe for adding other ports like av or s-video.


While it can "accept" all signal/sync types, the VGA port has one (fairly obscure) shortcoming: if you're passing 480i content into it, you cannot modify the horizontal sample rate from the standard spec (standard meaning 858 pixels/line) without it dropping the output. This is a "known issue" according to the OSSC wiki (http://junkerhq.net/xrgb/index.php?titl ... imitations). For some 480i sources this 858 pixels/line is actually the native rate (Wii, PS2 in 640x480i mode) and so this isn't a problem. Other 480i sources have different native horizontal rates (N64 is 774px/line, PS2 in 512x480i is 686 px/line, Saturn in 704x480i is 910 px/line, and so on); for those exceptions you'd need to use the SCART or component inputs to allow native horizontal sampling of the interlaced signal.


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 Post subject: Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler
PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 2:12 pm 


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Hi Blair, some months ago there were some questions in the thread on how you managed to get OSSC Lx3 working with the iScan Micro (you posted some images in the "4k blues" thread). It seems noone else has managed to do this. You mind clarifying how you did it?
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 Post subject: Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler
PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 3:35 pm 


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Joined: 22 Jun 2011
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Location: Bedfordshire, England.
BuckoA51 wrote:
Yes of course.


Excellent, so im currently on the waiting list do i need to re-register why interest for this new version?


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 Post subject: Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler
PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 4:34 pm 


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Joined: 15 Dec 2012
Posts: 419
Location: Finland
awe444 wrote:
While it can "accept" all signal/sync types, the VGA port has one (fairly obscure) shortcoming: if you're passing 480i content into it, you cannot modify the horizontal sample rate from the standard spec (standard meaning 858 pixels/line) without it dropping the output. This is a "known issue" according to the OSSC wiki (http://junkerhq.net/xrgb/index.php?titl ... imitations). For some 480i sources this 858 pixels/line is actually the native rate (Wii, PS2 in 640x480i mode) and so this isn't a problem. Other 480i sources have different native horizontal rates (N64 is 774px/line, PS2 in 512x480i is 686 px/line, Saturn in 704x480i is 910 px/line, and so on); for those exceptions you'd need to use the SCART or component inputs to allow native horizontal sampling of the interlaced signal.
There's no samplerate limitation with VGA input, but there are 2 major shortcomings with how TVP7002 handles sync signals:
- Regeneration of interlaced sync fed to H/VSYNC inputs (basically OSSC VGA connector) does not work correctly, FPGA needs to insert missing vsyncs (VSM=1). Currently only implemented for non-passthru modes, but in future could be extended to 1x too. Apparently some of the detection code got broken in 0.76 as well, resulting 480p to be interpreted in 960i in some cases.
- Regeneration of non-interlaced sync with odd-odd field order fed to SOG inputs (basically OSSC SCART & 3xRCA connectors) does not work correctly, FPGA needs to cut redundant vsyncs (VSM=2). If starting from cold, regenerated sync may be totally unusable.


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 Post subject: Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler
PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 4:57 pm 


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Shout out to Bucko and the videogameperfection team for their great customer service! Got my replacement OSSC today. Thank you.

Hopefully get around to making an impression thread in a couple of weeks with a pc CRT bias. I've also got my HD Fury 3 and unless I'm using the wrong dip switches then I wouldn't recommend it as I'm seeing some ringing over a low-end hdmi to vga DAC.

I'm seeing some horizontal line shake (Xbox>OSSC>HDMI cable>DAC>pc CRT) but haven't played around with settings too much, just lpf, and whilst I could make it worse I couldn't get rid of it completely or significantly improve it. I did a quick cable swap and DAC swap and also tested it on a pc LCD but need to perform some further testing to eliminate other things in the chain but it was still evident. Interestingly enough it's worse in 480p x2 mode.

I think some people have already asked for 480p x2 mode scanlines that black out two lines rather than one but the vertical scanlines work well, it kinda gives the impression of a game gear (slot mask?)


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 Post subject: Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler
PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 5:11 pm 


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Joined: 27 Apr 2015
Posts: 65
Location: New York
marqs wrote:
awe444 wrote:
While it can "accept" all signal/sync types, the VGA port has one (fairly obscure) shortcoming: if you're passing 480i content into it, you cannot modify the horizontal sample rate from the standard spec (standard meaning 858 pixels/line) without it dropping the output. This is a "known issue" according to the OSSC wiki (http://junkerhq.net/xrgb/index.php?titl ... imitations). For some 480i sources this 858 pixels/line is actually the native rate (Wii, PS2 in 640x480i mode) and so this isn't a problem. Other 480i sources have different native horizontal rates (N64 is 774px/line, PS2 in 512x480i is 686 px/line, Saturn in 704x480i is 910 px/line, and so on); for those exceptions you'd need to use the SCART or component inputs to allow native horizontal sampling of the interlaced signal.
There's no samplerate limitation with VGA input, but there are 2 major shortcomings with how TVP7002 handles sync signals:
- Regeneration of interlaced sync fed to H/VSYNC inputs (basically OSSC VGA connector) does not work correctly, FPGA needs to insert missing vsyncs (VSM=1). Currently only implemented for non-passthru modes, but in future could be extended to 1x too. Apparently some of the detection code got broken in 0.76 as well, resulting 480p to be interpreted in 960i in some cases.
- Regeneration of non-interlaced sync with odd-odd field order fed to SOG inputs (basically OSSC SCART & 3xRCA connectors) does not work correctly, FPGA needs to cut redundant vsyncs (VSM=2). If starting from cold, regenerated sync may be totally unusable.


Thanks marqs for the explanation---so it sounds like the non-flexible 480i samplerate issue I described isn't a direct symptom of this "known issue" with the TVP7002 after all. I guess there are enough other processing differences between the AV1 and AV3 ports that the cause could be something else entirely, possibly specific to the displays I tried too...


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 Post subject: Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler
PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 5:17 pm 


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Damn Blair, the scanlines on Streets of Rage look insanely good! Are they actually graded on the edges like that like real scanlines, or is that just an affect of the camera?


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 Post subject: Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler
PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 2:40 am 



Joined: 04 Jul 2010
Posts: 145
That's really strange because I thought the method of dealing with interlaced signals was the same on all three inputs. I'm kinda stumped and now I'm almost too afraid to update.

So how does this effect Dreamcast games running in 480i at this point? I haven't had any issues to report myself so far.
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 Post subject: Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler
PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 8:15 am 


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Just wanted to add that I returned my OLED B6 today and picked up the LG 65C7. It still handles the OSSC Line5x mode and looks even better than last year's model(I didn't think that was possible!)

The LG 7 series is rated at 21ms in game mode. Pair that up with the OSSC and in my opinion it's the best gaming solution.
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 Post subject: Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler
PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 10:04 am 


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Bahn Yuki wrote:
Just wanted to add that I returned my OLED B6 today and picked up the LG 65C7. It still handles the OSSC Line5x mode and looks even better than last year's model(I didn't think that was possible!)

The LG 7 series is rated at 21ms in game mode. Pair that up with the OSSC and in my opinion it's the best gaming solution.


How about Lx3 mode? Can it do perfect integer vertical scale? That coupled with that low lag and OLED quality would be the holy grail imo... :)
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 Post subject: Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler
PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 4:44 pm 


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Location: Bedfordshire, England.
Bahn Yuki wrote:
Just wanted to add that I returned my OLED B6 today and picked up the LG 65C7. It still handles the OSSC Line5x mode and looks even better than last year's model(I didn't think that was possible!)

The LG 7 series is rated at 21ms in game mode. Pair that up with the OSSC and in my opinion it's the best gaming solution.


Why did you return the OLED?, was the input lag too great?


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 Post subject: Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler
PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 5:47 pm 


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The LG B6 has 27.6 ms of lag, so it's roughly the same as the 65C7.


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 Post subject: Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler
PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 7:54 pm 



Joined: 07 Oct 2015
Posts: 70
My unit arrived. So far my HP LP2475w monitor hates SNES output from the OSSC (display is jumping/shifting to the right), but I do get a picture on Line2x, 3x, and 4x.... nothing on 5x though. Whats weird is there appears to be drifting sync between the output and the display. Sometimes I get a rock solid display, and then jumping starts again and gradually gets worse to the point the monitor loses sync, then it drifts back to working again.

I have to run a full battery of tests, so stay tuned......


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 Post subject: Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler
PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 11:32 pm 


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Joined: 15 Oct 2015
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Location: Salem OR
lettuce wrote:
Bahn Yuki wrote:
Just wanted to add that I returned my OLED B6 today and picked up the LG 65C7. It still handles the OSSC Line5x mode and looks even better than last year's model(I didn't think that was possible!)

The LG 7 series is rated at 21ms in game mode. Pair that up with the OSSC and in my opinion it's the best gaming solution.


Why did you return the OLED?, was the input lag too great?

It was a store demo and the internet was flaking out. After doing tests, the 2017 Oled are significantly brighter. Also my C7 does accept 1080p/120hz mode. I still love vizio panels but the OLED are on another level.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using Tapatalk
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 Post subject: Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler
PostPosted: Sat Apr 08, 2017 6:06 am 



Joined: 07 Oct 2015
Posts: 70
Hooked up the OSSC to the 50" Samsung LCD...... WOW. Zero sync issues with the SNES. Picture looks excellent, and works in Line3x, 4x, and 5x! Heck, the TV even supports 240p60 passthru mode.


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 Post subject: Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler
PostPosted: Sat Apr 08, 2017 2:52 pm 



Joined: 05 Dec 2012
Posts: 298
Bahn Yuki wrote:
Just wanted to add that I returned my OLED B6 today and picked up the LG 65C7. It still handles the OSSC Line5x mode and looks even better than last year's model(I didn't think that was possible!)

Can you elaborate a bit more on how the different modes react with the B7 & C7? Does x5 act the same way as the framemesiter and cut off the top & bottom? x3 fills the screen top to bottom? It sounds like compatibility is basically perfect.

Bahn Yuki wrote:
After doing tests, the 2017 Oled are significantly brighter.

One the 2017's start hitting the stores, the 2016 models will go on clearance. I was planning on picking up one of these. Do you think the brightness is worth the significantly higher cost?


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 Post subject: Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler
PostPosted: Sat Apr 08, 2017 8:17 pm 


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Reviews indicate the 2017 models are roughly 25% brighter than the 2016 models. A big difference to be sure, but it doesn't sound earth shattering.


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 Post subject: Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler
PostPosted: Sat Apr 08, 2017 9:04 pm 


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Location: UK
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Really enjoying the vertical scanlines on a pcCRT, along with the monitor's own 480p scanlines it gives a similar look to my Sony consumer set.

Also the horizontal shaking issue I had was down to the dvi-d to hdmi dongle! There's still some very, very subtle shake but it's similar to other analog signals I've seen on CRTs.

I have come across an issue with my pal Wii and the OSSC, I was trying it via scart and the colours are incorrect, Blue is Red and other colours are incorrectly displayed, I'm thinking it's the cable even though it works fine plugged directly into a tv with a Scart socket. Has anybody come across anything similar? I've not had issues with my N64 or snes via RGB scart.


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 Post subject: Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler
PostPosted: Sat Apr 08, 2017 11:00 pm 



Joined: 07 Feb 2013
Posts: 174
does anyone have any extra of those hdmi audio addons for the OSSC?


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 Post subject: Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler
PostPosted: Sun Apr 09, 2017 12:04 am 


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Quote:
does anyone have any extra of those hdmi audio addons for the OSSC?


I have a batch due in later in the month, I anticipate plenty to go around.
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 Post subject: Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler
PostPosted: Sun Apr 09, 2017 3:10 am 



Joined: 04 Jul 2010
Posts: 145
Gunstar wrote:
Really enjoying the vertical scanlines on a pcCRT, along with the monitor's own 480p scanlines it gives a similar look to my Sony consumer set.


Is this the Dreamcast port with it's incorrect horizontal scaling?

I can put the XBOX version on x2 scale with it's filter on and it somehow manages to look the way it's supposed to, aside from the lack of scanlines of course.

Edit: Nevermind. Saw your post someplace else and should've figured it was the XBOX version without the filter on.
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 Post subject: Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler
PostPosted: Sun Apr 09, 2017 9:36 am 


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headlesshobbs wrote:

Is this the Dreamcast port with it's incorrect horizontal scaling?

I can put the XBOX version on x2 scale with it's filter on and it somehow manages to look the way it's supposed to, aside from the lack of scanlines of course.

Edit: Nevermind. Saw your post someplace else and should've figured it was the XBOX version without the filter on.


I had read about one of the versions having incorrect scaling but I had incorrectly assumed it was the Xbox one as I find some elements having an incorrect pixel width. The DC version had vertical bars iirc so that's what made me think it was trying to keep the correct aspect. I usually turn off the filter so I get sharp pixels, I'll give it a try with the filter on. Thanks for the info about the versions!


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 Post subject: Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler
PostPosted: Sun Apr 09, 2017 12:51 pm 


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Joined: 11 May 2015
Posts: 368
Location: America
More images and videos, this time over component.

OSSC+HD3000

(Quick Xbox video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2PNObqRMLjI)

(Quick Wii video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rGcq6B6n9o8)

(Sorry about the sound being a bit off in parts of my videos, its a glitch in the capture software for now).

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image


Last edited by Blair on Sun Apr 09, 2017 1:59 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler
PostPosted: Sun Apr 09, 2017 1:28 pm 


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Location: UK
^Nice, the Wii looking good there!


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 Post subject: Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler
PostPosted: Sun Apr 09, 2017 7:43 pm 



Joined: 04 Jul 2010
Posts: 145
Gunstar wrote:

I had read about one of the versions having incorrect scaling but I had incorrectly assumed it was the Xbox one as I find some elements having an incorrect pixel width. The DC version had vertical bars iirc so that's what made me think it was trying to keep the correct aspect. I usually turn off the filter so I get sharp pixels, I'll give it a try with the filter on. Thanks for the info about the versions!


This is a typical thing that Capcom does with their home ports and basicly they always screw up their resolution settings. SFIII is no exception to this aside from New Generation and Double Impact which you actually can get the correct resolution if you output as av, s-video, or RGB (Scart of VGA 15khz). VGA 31khz switches them to 640p scaling, which is totally inaccurate and 3rd strike is stuck on this no matter what you do, even if you manage to put in the resolution switch. The later XBOX/PS2 ports also follow the 640p blowup, but filtering is the only way you'll get the sprites to match their proper geometry appearance in spite of being inaccurate to scanlines, but the PS2 has some weird thing in that if you add scanlines via OSSC or de-interlace (like a specific PVM model -i.e. ask Fagners), you can turn off one scan field and get the lines you need to make it look like the proper 244p signal it's supposed to be. XBOX is screwed on this, so run it at 480p filtered and x2 mode if you want to see the correct details.
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 Post subject: Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler
PostPosted: Sun Apr 09, 2017 9:12 pm 



Joined: 09 Apr 2012
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Does the XRGB-mini support the 480pX2 output of the OSSC? Does it look better than the XRGB-mini's 480p handling? I'm sure I tested, but I forgot the result and no longer have a PSU for my XRGB-mini and I'm not getting a new one if that's not the case.


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