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 Post subject: Gamecube vs Wii component output
PostPosted: Mon Sep 29, 2014 11:55 pm 



Joined: 17 Sep 2007
Posts: 211
I figured this topic could use a thread for itself. I'd never really had an issue with the Wii's component output personally, but my eyes aren't the sharpest when it comes to this sort of thing, and with how frequently the Wii's video output is cited to be inferior to that of the Gamecube, I figured that I might as well do some side-by-side capture tests and share them.

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I connected each system to an XCAPTURE-1 via official D-terminal cables and ran the Gamecube version of the 240p Test Suite (in 480p linedoubled mode) on each system via the pictured SD launcher. The results are posted below.

Image Image

Here's a close up of the serial numbers for each console. I think the Cube was part of a Game Boy Player bundle SKU. The Wii was purchased before Brawl's release. That's about all I can remember specifically, should you want to use that info to try and narrow down manufacture dates or specific console revisions.

Interactive Tests

For the tests that actually need to be seen in video form (Drop Shadow, Scroll tests, etc.), I recorded some footage for each console. They're encoded in Lagarith and are massive (close to 1 GB each), so save these to disk if you want them and don't pass around the links too much. I might end up having to kill them for bandwidth needs.

Gamecube
Wii

The videos are encoded at the actual framerate of the GCN/Wii, so if you have screen-tearing issues when viewing them that's probably why.

The results for all of the static test patterns are shown in screenshots below.

Options and Video Settings

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PLUGE

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Color Bars

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SMPTE Color Bars

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Color Bars with Gray Scale

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Color Bleed Check

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Grid

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Linearity

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Gray Ramp

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White & RGB screens

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100 IRE

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Sharpness

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Overscan

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Notes

- The XCAPTURE-1 can only sample footage in 4:2:2, so the colors cannot be reproduced exactly as they are from the consoles. It also tends to have issues applying the correct color space for some sources (601 vs 709, limited vs full, etc). I haven't made any adjustments to these settings in the above results.

- The colors seem to be a little muted in general on the Wii. The most obvious dips in quality are in the colored text in the menus (black/white text seems fine) and the color bleed tests. (I wonder what the sharpness tests would look like if they were colored instead of just black and white.)

- If you check the number of distinct colors in each image, you'll notice that the Wii images have a much higher count in general. This is most obvious on the screenshots of the plan red/green/blue/white slides. Several GCN result snapshots have fewer than 256 distinct colors, while that isn't often the case with the corresponding Wii snapshots. This suggests that the Wii's output is a little noisier in general.

I could probably record some actual game footage later, should anyone want some.

Feel free to post your own comparisons if you've got them.


Last edited by Sixfortyfive on Tue Sep 30, 2014 12:27 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Gamecube vs Wii component output
PostPosted: Tue Sep 30, 2014 12:20 am 


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I've compared the output with a scope, specifically the checkerboard pattern.

Here they are, Gamecube 480p 1:1, first line of the checkerboard:

Image

Wii 480p 1:1 first line of the checkerboard, no setting changed in the scope:

Image

Both are day one NTSC-US consoles, I can provide the serials if requiered.

As you can see the signal is weaker in the Wii.
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 Post subject: Re: Gamecube vs Wii component output
PostPosted: Tue Sep 30, 2014 8:28 am 


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Artemio wrote:
As you can see the signal is weaker in the Wii.

IMHO calling it "weaker" is a bit misleading here - it's most likely bandwidth-limited which would reduce the amplitude of a high-frequency signal like this. If you measure a line with just a single black-to-white transition (e.g. left edge of the 100 IRE window) you will probably see that the final white level is the same for both consoles, but the rise time is slower for the Wii.


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 Post subject: Re: Gamecube vs Wii component output
PostPosted: Tue Sep 30, 2014 8:39 am 



Joined: 31 May 2014
Posts: 144
Great test, thank you guys!
One thing I'm wondering about is if the limitations are really du to the console's hardware. Trying a third-party component cable or even a Wii-HDMI adpater would be interesting to see in comparison.


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 Post subject: Re: Gamecube vs Wii component output
PostPosted: Tue Sep 30, 2014 4:22 pm 



Joined: 09 Apr 2012
Posts: 1679
That's really nice.

If you're taking requests: how does this look on the Wii U?


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 Post subject: Re: Gamecube vs Wii component output
PostPosted: Tue Sep 30, 2014 4:39 pm 



Joined: 17 Sep 2007
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12345 wrote:
Great test, thank you guys!
One thing I'm wondering about is if the limitations are really du to the console's hardware. Trying a third-party component cable or even a Wii-HDMI adpater would be interesting to see in comparison.

The official Wii cables are pretty thick, so I expect that they're shielded well. Not sure how much room for improvement is there.

ZellSF wrote:
That's really nice.

If you're taking requests: how does this look on the Wii U?

I kind of want to keep my Wii U homebrew-free for the time being.


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 Post subject: Re: Gamecube vs Wii component output
PostPosted: Tue Sep 30, 2014 5:33 pm 



Joined: 02 Nov 2011
Posts: 139
The white screen and color screens are certainly brighter on the GameCube.

Has anybody actually played significant amounts of each to see if there are clear differences during normal play?


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 Post subject: Re: Gamecube vs Wii component output
PostPosted: Tue Sep 30, 2014 7:40 pm 


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Unseen wrote:
Artemio wrote:
As you can see the signal is weaker in the Wii.

IMHO calling it "weaker" is a bit misleading here - it's most likely bandwidth-limited which would reduce the amplitude of a high-frequency signal like this. If you measure a line with just a single black-to-white transition (e.g. left edge of the 100 IRE window) you will probably see that the final white level is the same for both consoles, but the rise time is slower for the Wii.


You are right, I shouldn't have worded it that way. However it does result in a different output signal, which at least in my tests is a bit harder to decode by receiving equipment. I've only tested both patterns in the following devices:

- DVDO Edge
- XRGB Mini
- XRGB 3 to VGA CRT

And none of them can display the checkerboard correctly from either the wii or the GC, however the wii ends up being way softer, almost gray.

One thing worth mentioning is the Gamecube DAC: viewtopic.php?p=1049832#p1049832 He got way better results than I've ever seen from the GC.

I started worrying about this because the 240p Suite's checkerboard displays perfectly on the Dreamcast in 640x480 through the VGA box, and I was afraid I was doing something wrong with the output or texture filtering.
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 Post subject: Re: Gamecube vs Wii component output
PostPosted: Tue Sep 30, 2014 8:42 pm 


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Artemio wrote:
One thing worth mentioning is the Gamecube DAC: viewtopic.php?p=1049832#p1049832 He got way better results than I've ever seen from the GC.

Yes, I posted that one. Attempting to connect that DAC board to a Wii is still on my Todo-List - I didn't think it would be worth it since the Wii already has a component output, but your measurements show that there may be room for improvement.


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 Post subject: Re: Gamecube vs Wii component output
PostPosted: Tue Sep 30, 2014 9:42 pm 


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Very interesting that blue is smeared into oblivion on the Wii. Any reason why that color in particular is so bad?


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 Post subject: Re: Gamecube vs Wii component output
PostPosted: Tue Sep 30, 2014 9:45 pm 



Joined: 17 Sep 2007
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bobrocks95 wrote:
Very interesting that blue is smeared into oblivion on the Wii. Any reason why that color in particular is so bad?

That's probably the capture card's fault to some extent. You can see on the GCN output that blue doesn't fare as well as the other colors, either.

Although I remember the results being pretty similar on the TV as well.


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 Post subject: Re: Gamecube vs Wii component output
PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 3:25 am 



Joined: 04 Jul 2010
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Would you be willing to try this test again with the Wii to HDMI adapter?
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 Post subject: Re: Gamecube vs Wii component output
PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 3:37 am 


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Note that the HDMI adapter won't make it look any better, unless there's something in it I'm not aware of. It will be worse if anything. Unless of course your goal is knowing how much worse.


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 Post subject: Re: Gamecube vs Wii component output
PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 3:49 am 


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It makes it brighter according to this review: http://www.thethrillness.com/2014/02/ne ... -hdmi.html

There's also the question whether no-name adapters differ from the original Neoya branded product...


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 Post subject: Re: Gamecube vs Wii component output
PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 3:56 am 


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Huh, did not know that. I guess it just boosts the input levels? Is the original picture more accurate (the FFVI screenshot makes it look like it is)?


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 Post subject: Re: Gamecube vs Wii component output
PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 4:07 am 


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I would say so. The Wii2HDMI screenshots remind me of the GBA version more than anything else :lol:

On my no-name Wii2HDMI the image comes across as looking duller compared to an official RGB cable on a CRT, but I don't have component cables to compare against...


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 Post subject: Re: Gamecube vs Wii component output
PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 5:20 am 



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Awhile back I saw this thread from neogaf where they were comparing shots between component, Dolphin and what I mentioned. It seemed to me that using this adapter was able to help clear up the video a bit by limiting the amount of smudge/ringing on screen as opposed to how it displays through analog. I've got monster brand official cables and there's still a bit of ringing that goes on screen either due to shielding, or however it ends up being processed from my end.

Sixfortyfive wrote:
The official Wii cables are pretty thick, so I expect that they're shielded well. Not sure how much room for improvement is there.


You'd be surprised with some brands. I've got two generic component to vga that I've compared and the thin cords actually look a heck of a lot sharper.
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 Post subject: Re: Gamecube vs Wii component output
PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 3:04 pm 


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Someone said this on GBAtemp yesterday

Quote:
If I am not mistaken... Any Wii with the D2-3(and newer) DVD chip also has the upgraded component.
So you are looking for 2010+ Wii types... Model # has escaped me.


Do any of these Wiis have Gamecube support? And is it true they have upgraded component?


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 Post subject: Re: Gamecube vs Wii component output
PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 7:22 pm 



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headlesshobbs wrote:
Awhile back I saw this thread from neogaf where they were comparing shots between component, Dolphin and what I mentioned. It seemed to me that using this adapter was able to help clear up the video a bit by limiting the amount of smudge/ringing on screen as opposed to how it displays through analog. I've got monster brand official cables and there's still a bit of ringing that goes on screen either due to shielding, or however it ends up being processed from my end.

Sixfortyfive wrote:
The official Wii cables are pretty thick, so I expect that they're shielded well. Not sure how much room for improvement is there.


You'd be surprised with some brands. I've got two generic component to vga that I've compared and the thin cords actually look a heck of a lot sharper.

I'm interested in your results. Can you provide some more detail?


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 Post subject: Re: Gamecube vs Wii component output
PostPosted: Thu Oct 02, 2014 2:30 pm 



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Kokonoe wrote:
Someone said this on GBAtemp yesterday

Quote:
If I am not mistaken... Any Wii with the D2-3(and newer) DVD chip also has the upgraded component.
So you are looking for 2010+ Wii types... Model # has escaped me.


Do any of these Wiis have Gamecube support? And is it true they have upgraded component?


That's the first that I've heard of Wii's that have improved component output... if that were actually the case, I'd probably buy one like... today.


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 Post subject: Re: Gamecube vs Wii component output
PostPosted: Thu Oct 02, 2014 2:50 pm 


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Chacranajxy wrote:
Kokonoe wrote:
Someone said this on GBAtemp yesterday

Quote:
If I am not mistaken... Any Wii with the D2-3(and newer) DVD chip also has the upgraded component.
So you are looking for 2010+ Wii types... Model # has escaped me.


Do any of these Wiis have Gamecube support? And is it true they have upgraded component?


That's the first that I've heard of Wii's that have improved component output... if that were actually the case, I'd probably buy one like... today.


Digital component output of the first generation NTSC Gamecubes (which Nintendo quickly removed in favor of analog only and composite) with component cables blow the Wii blurry, foggy, washed out and fuzzy analog component output out of the universe.

In other news the Wii U is RGB limited, so instead of getting a great picture quality output you get a picture whos "qualities" could be described as washed out, withered, faded and dried up.

Its obvious, Nintendont hates quality.


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 Post subject: Re: Gamecube vs Wii component output
PostPosted: Thu Oct 02, 2014 3:05 pm 


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Is the Wii U in Wii mode limited range RGB while the Wii is full range?


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 Post subject: Re: Gamecube vs Wii component output
PostPosted: Sun Oct 05, 2014 6:06 am 



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Okay, we can't just let this fall by the wayside -- are there really Wiis that have better component output than others?


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 Post subject: Re: Gamecube vs Wii component output
PostPosted: Tue Oct 07, 2014 5:33 am 


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Curious as well
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 Post subject: Re: Gamecube vs Wii component output
PostPosted: Mon Nov 10, 2014 10:52 am 


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Chacranajxy wrote:
Okay, we can't just let this fall by the wayside -- are there really Wiis that have better component output than others?


I've confirmed that the Newer Wii does have better quality than Wii, although it is still lower than Gamecube.

Wasn't certain if I could link to other forums so I'll just quote what I wrote!
Quote:
It's actually a considerable difference, but if you can get by with Wii you'll save your wallet a lot of money.

Look closely at the lines.

Old Wii / Gamecube
ImageImage
Old Wii / Gamecube
ImageImage
New Wii / Gamecube
ImageImage
New Wii / Gamecube
ImageImage

Versus the old Wii it's a lot clearer and better with colors, you can tell by the first image when you compare the lines. Versus the new Wii, the newer Wii is much sharper than the Old Wii, but when you pay attention to the second image, the Gamecube is a lot sharper still. Although, the New Wii doesn't have the issues the Old Wii does with the lines in the first pic. New Wii is actually a considerable improvement over Old Wii. I created this thread to actually confirm that question.

So, yeah. If you have money to burn get a Gamecube controller as it is a considerable improvement, but if not, stick with Wii cables you'll save yourself a lot of money.


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 Post subject: Re: Gamecube vs Wii component output
PostPosted: Mon Nov 10, 2014 11:19 am 


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Are those tests from PAL Wiis or NTSC Wiis? Also, whats a "new" Wii? The Wiis with no Gamecube support?


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 Post subject: Re: Gamecube vs Wii component output
PostPosted: Mon Nov 10, 2014 11:20 am 


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Lawfer wrote:
Are those tests from PAL Wiis or NTSC Wiis? Also, whats a "new" Wii? The Wiis with no Gamecube support?

NTSC systems. RVL-101 is what I was deeming "New Wii" whereas "Old Wii" is RVL-001. And yep, RVL-101 lacks Gamecube support.


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 Post subject: Re: Gamecube vs Wii component output
PostPosted: Mon Nov 10, 2014 11:58 am 


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Another thread about this topic ended with one user comparing an NTSC RVL-101 to a PAL RVL-001 without seeing a difference. viewtopic.php?p=1060779#p1060779


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 Post subject: Re: Gamecube vs Wii component output
PostPosted: Mon Nov 10, 2014 12:14 pm 


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blizzz wrote:
Another thread about this topic ended with one user comparing an NTSC RVL-101 to a PAL RVL-001 without seeing a difference. viewtopic.php?p=1060779#p1060779


From reading that thread I think we'll need some photo evidence because although some people may have a keen eye, they may not notice or give a 100% accurate representation for the slight differences in video quality like they would with actual test images being captured.


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 Post subject: Re: Gamecube vs Wii component output
PostPosted: Mon Nov 10, 2014 1:16 pm 


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Kokonoe wrote:
NTSC systems. RVL-101 is what I was deeming "New Wii" whereas "Old Wii" is RVL-001. And yep, RVL-101 lacks Gamecube support.

It would be interesting to know which PCB revision is in that "New Wii".


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