Display advice

[CDexWard]

After a year of hardly playing anything I want to get back into arcade gaming (meaning playing stuff in MAME ).
I'm planning on going for a tate setup after shmupping exclusively on a yoko 24" LCD. I got all my clears on this but as you can see it's only the easy games. I find it very hard to keep track of dense bullet patterns and my ship's position when playing more finicky on this display. But due to a lack of VESA mounting options I can't just flip this display around so I have to spend a little cash on something new but I am unsure about what to get.

The first option would be another 24" but this time with a tate-able stand, this would cost 150 bucks. The other option would be a 27" with a mounting bracket for the desk, which would cost about 80 more than the first option. The question here is, how big a screen do I need for proper shmupping? I tried turning around my 24" but had to hold it with one hand so I could not proplerly play. In another thread I read that the bigger the screen the slower the game feels and dodging becomes much easier. Does the difference in size between 24" and 27" tate make a difference when playing? Or is the 24" big enough? All those would be widescreen displays btw, so there will be black borders top and bottom.

[Xyga]

Does the difference in size between 24" and 27" tate make a difference when playing?

No it doesn't. It's only matter of how far you're sitting from the screen.

By the way many 27" come with a rotating stand, you don't always have to buy a desk/wall mount...

What models do you have your eyes on ?

[CDexWard]

The 24" with the tate stand is a BenQ GL2450HT and for the 27" I would just pick any one of those with 2ms lag, they all cost around 200€.

I can't find a single 27" with a rotating stand. Can you point me to a specific model?

[Fudoh]

The GL2450HT is a TN Panel. Even if you can endure this in Yoko, you cannot in TATE. Never rotate a TN panel.

And the specified 2ms GtG have hardly anything to do with the actual input lag. You can have superfast transitions and still 2 frames of lag.

[Astraea FGA Mk. I]

You want a 16:10 monitor with an IPS panel. The screen is wider in TATE and the viewing angle is much better than a TN.
You want to buy a BenQ BL2411PT. 24" 1920x1200 16:10 IPS 4ms input lag.
http://www.amazon.de/BenQ-IPS-Panel-Rea ... B00BPL08U0
It exceeds your budget but this is not a hobby to be cheap about. If that excludes it from consideration it is a shame.

Feel free to research it but you will eventually decide to buy this anyways.

[Xyga]

Just a few recommendations to begin;

- you shouldn't - ever - pick a monitor with a TN panel, because those are bad and banned for portrait/tate (extremely narrow viewing angles making about half of the screen go dark).

- IPS and VA panels are the only 'tate-able' lcd panel types, check here if you want to learn about the different panel technologies: http://pcmonitors.info/articles/lcd-pan ... -explored/.

- what you read as '2ms lag' isn't lag, it's a figure for advertising grey-to-grey pixel response time (real input lag is never advertised, you can only learn about it when reading reviews from specialized websites).
Compared to TN panels, IPS and VA panels show slower response times, yes, okay... but still fast-enough for a huge majority of game genres.
Response time isn't the 'absolute everything' as long as you're not madly into games like FPS.

- PWM-free (flicker-free) monitors are now widely available and highly recommended especially for people who are sensitive to that kind of stuff.

- Standard Full HD monitors (1920x1080 at 60Hz) are enough for console gaming and overall pc multimedia use.
Higher resolution monitors like 1440p are generally meant for more involved use (not just casual gaming/internet/movies) but are still okay, though usually more expensive and with a little more input lag.
Higher frequency monitors (120Hz, 144Hz) are generally TN panels almost exclusively meant for pc FPS gaming, consoles or emulators don't benefit from those.

- prad.de, tftcentral.co.uk, pcmonitors.info have plenty of serious reviews, strongly recommended websites.

------

Examples of some of the best tate-able 24" as of Aug 2014;
- Iiyama Prolite X2483HSU-B1 (VA panel) -> no rotating stand but VESA compatible so you can buy a cheap stand separately.
- Dell U2414H and P2414H (IPS panel) -> main difference btw the two models is connectivity. rotating stand included.
- BenQ BL2411PT (IPS panel) -> if you still want to go a little bit higher resolution without wasting too many pixels. it's the best 16:10 around.

And some 27;
- Iiyama ProLite XB2783HSU-B1 (VA panel) -> big brother of the X2483HSU, but the rotating stand is included this time. Excellent.
- Eizo FlexScan EV2736W (IPS panel) -> excellent 1440p monitor but damn expensive.
- AOC q2770Pqu (IPS panel) -> more affordable 1440p.
- Samsung S27D390H and S27D590P (IPS panel) -> both are excellent 1080p IPS(PLS), quite fast, but completely lack rotation or VESA mounting. just wanted to mention those as they're still better performers compared to many 1440p, and quite cheaper.

Personally I'd pick one of the Iiyamas (24" or 27"), but please take your time to read about all those.

PS: Astraea and Fudoh beat me to it. ^^

[Astraea FGA Mk. I]

I quickly took a couple of pictures of my Benq BL2411pt for you.

[Xyga]

Maybe the last (and best) 16:10 monitor ever... *sob*

[speedlolita]

Last?

But the ASUS ProArt series are 16:10. Cost about double though.

[Xyga]

You're right there are still a few expensive (some extremely expensive) Asus, Nec and Eizo.

It' just the 'last of the affordable 16:10' indeed.

[neorichieb1971]

Sorry to gate crash the thread.

At work we have an order of these -

http://store.hp.com/UKStore/Merch/Produ ... 0W81AT#ABU

I could probably get one cheap. Are they appropriate for MAME and gaming etc?

[Xyga]

Here's the only decent review I've found (use google translate);
http://www.overclockers.ru/lab/60271_6/ ... 1i.html#20
Looks like it's competent for gaming (fast-enough panel, low input lag) but overall not as good as the BenQ.

[zanardi]

A new 24" 1920x1200 panel is being developed by LG Display in 2014 and the ASUS PA monitors are wide gamut which sucks for games.

[CDexWard]

Wow, thanks for all the replies and pictures.

@Xyga: The Iiyama 27" looks really nice. I think I saw it before on Amazon but didn't really think about it because I thought it was some no name product. According to reviews the input lag is really low. Do you have any experience with this model?

@Astraea: What's your experience with the 24", is it tated big enough or too small?

Does anyone know wether it is possible to tilt these displays when they are tated, especially the Iiyama ones? If that's possible you even could tilt it so that the bottom end is closer to you, just like on a real cab.

[Xyga]

Nope I haven't tried the Iiyama XB2783HSU-B1 myself, but I might buy it, or the Samsung S27D390H, if nothing confirmed better comes out on the market before the end of the year.

You will find several reviews of those either in their 24" or 27" versions.
Here's the review of the Iiyama on prad.de for instance, it should be able to tilt a bit while in tate position:
http://www.prad.de/new/monitore/test/20 ... su-b1.html

I'm also waiting for reviews of the BenQ BL2700HT (VA), and ASUS PB278QR (IPS), both are other potentially excellent monitors with fully adjustable stands.

[speedlolita]

Does anyone know wether it is possible to tilt these displays when they are tated, especially the Iiyama ones? If that's possible you even could tilt it so that the bottom end is closer to you, just like on a real cab.

I don't see why not.

My Dell U2410 can do that.

[CDexWard]

Astraea, you were right, now I am considering the 16:10 BenQ. But from your pictures it seems a bit small, is that possible? It looks more narrow than the stick is wide or is it because it's standing way behind it?

[Xyga]

A 4:3 pillarboxed image on a 24" screen is about 50cm in diagonal
(at least on a 16:9 it is, don't know on a 16:10 but it should be very close).
If you're sitting in front of it like Astraea does it certainly isn't small.

[CDexWard]

50cm is indeed pretty big. That is a full 20cm more than on my yoko setup. I was torn between the 27" Iiyama and the 16:10 BenQ and I think it will be the BenQ, even though it is 2 inch smaller. The loss is just 2cm width but there would be 8cm less wasted space for useless widescreen diameter. Astraea was spot on when he said I would decide on that one either way.

[Xyga]

A 4:3 pillarboxed image on a 16:9 27" monitor is 56cm in diagonal, it will be larger, but in portrait/tate since the frame is bigger you would also have to look a bit higher.
On a desk very big monitors aren't the most convenient for tate, indeed.

Another good thing about the BenQ is its 1200p resolution which is better for advanced shader effects on emulators (HLSL for instance) without the need of a quite powerful computer with DisplayPort management (1440p monitors are very demanding displays).

You can't go wrong with the BL2411PT anyway, this is no cheap crap monitor.
Just be aware of one thing: backlight bleeding is more noticeable on IPS monitors, so make sure you get it from a store with a quite flexible returns policy and warranty support, in case you get a unit with very obvious bleeding.

[Xyga]

Anyone got more info on the following large monitors ? I can't find any decent reviews yet.
All recently released (or very soon) shmups-friendly displays;

Samsung
- S27D850T - 27" 1440p - possible 8bit S-PLS (supposedly less 'glowy' than your average IPS).
- S32D850T - 32" 1440p - same AMVA+ panel as BenQ BL3200PT (but will it be any better?)

Asus
- PB278QR - 27" 1440p - 8bit AH-IPS. Updated version of the PB278Q (better?)

BenQ
- BL2700HT - 27" 1080p - AMVA+. Maybe superior to the BenQ EW2740L or Iiyama XB2783HSU ? At least it can rotate.
- GW2765HT - 27" 1440p - IPS (which kind?)

Only one 1080p (and not even one new 1080p IPS in view), which sucks considering ALL decent/affordable 1440p have over 1 frame of input lag.
Good 1080p (and 1200p) monitors are becoming a very rare thing, I'm afraid we'll soon be stuck with WQHD & 4K only, which are still not really okay for 'our' needs.

[FerociousSwan]

I'm on the look out for another monitor for tate, but there is a question not mentioned here.
My rotatable Samsung LCD was only able to rotate 1 way, the majority of tate games need to be rotated the 'other' way. Well any tate games on PS1/Saturn were like this.
I actually had to saw through this metal bolt in the stand, it now can spin 360 degrees! So can be upside down if I so wish.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Samsung-S27C750 ... te+monitor

Pretty good for what I tested, however I've decided I would like if possible to get one with speakers built in ... so maybe a TV might be better.

So can any of the rotating models mentioned here be rotated the 'other' way to use for games.

I like the look of Iiyama ProLite XB2783HSU-B1
But again can it rotate the way I need?

[Xyga]

The Iiyama rotates clockwise, but unlike the Samsung it's got a standard VESA 100x100 mount, so the moment you attach the stand to the back you can choose a different default position.
It's not perfect but heh...

Otherwise there's a X2783HSU-B1 (without the 'B' after the 'X') which is the same monitor without the fancy stand.
And it's a bit cheaper of course.
You can buy a two-way rotating VESA 100x100 stand separately (you'll have to find one but I guess those do exist somewhere).

Picture quality and performance will be very similar to your Samsung (it's the same AMVA+panel), or just a little bit better, but you'll have a hard time noticing the differences unless you've got a well trained eye for this.
I don't know if it's worth just for a couple of weak integrated speakers.

PS: if you want a TV, looks like the Sony 32W705B is the only 'small' one on the market with sub-1 frame input lag, well, if that review is correct: http://www.avforums.com/review/sony-w70 ... view.10458
You would need a badass stand like the Crimson DS134 (not sure it rotates both ways though, gotta check) plus a VESA adapter for that particular Sony set.
It's an excellent TV but it's not as 'snappy' as those quite-evolved 27" pc monitors (no configurable pixel overdrive, nor sub half-a-frame lag).
And it will cost ya. Oh yes.

[FerociousSwan]

Thanks for the reply! Well I would prefer some internal speakers, I've got too many wires all over the place as it is!
I'll check out the cheaper model then, I have seen a VESA rotating stand so should work well
Plus it's a lot lot cheaper then the Samy as well.

I'm also hoping this screen works better with my Supergun/XRGB combo, as on my Samsung it also produces green ghosting (Not on other screens I've tested)

[Xyga]

As long as you got an up-to-27" generic VESA 100x100 clock-and-counterclockwise stand, you can choose among a number of 27" monitors.

Not all of them got a VESA 100x100 mount on the back + integrated speakers of course, the Iiyama is quite an obvious choice for someone who wants to stick to AMVA+.

I would suggest a similar monitor with IPS panel... but aside the LG 27MP75HM I don't know of any other.
It's supposed to have above-average (or NOT) integrated speakers, and a VESA 100x100 mount.
I've noticed two versions but I don't know the differences (check carefully);
27MP75HM-P
27MP75HM-B
Haven't read any reviews so I don't know about the input lag and response times.

EDIT: found a review for the LG: http://www.overclockers.ru/lab/59875_6/ ... HM.html#20 (translate from Russian)
It's as good as standard IPS monitors go today, some people will dislike the grainy matte screen coating and corner glow though.

[FerociousSwan]

As long as you got an up-to-27" generic VESA 100x100 clock-and-counterclockwise stand, you can choose among a number of 27" monitors.

Not all of them got a VESA 100x100 mount on the back + integrated speakers of course, the Iiyama is quite an obvious choice for someone who wants to stick to AMVA+.

I would suggest a similar monitor with IPS panel... but aside the LG 27MP75HM I don't know of any other.
It's supposed to have above-average (or NOT) integrated speakers, and a VESA 100x100 mount.
I've noticed two versions but I don't know the differences (check carefully);
27MP75HM-P
27MP75HM-B
Haven't read any reviews so I don't know about the input lag and response times.

EDIT: found a review for the LG: http://www.overclockers.ru/lab/59875_6/ ... HM.html#20 (translate from Russian)
It's as good as standard IPS monitors go today, some people will dislike the grainy matte screen coating and corner glow though.

Thanks for the link! I'll check that one out, I'm still currently swaying towards the Ilyama though

[Xyga]

Or just glue a pair of speakers to the back of your Samsung and it will be almost exactly the same, you know.

Correction; I meant the S27C750P (not 'PS').

[dosu]

The Iiyama ProLite XB2783HSU-B1 is a really nice monitor, one review site says it has 11ms of input lag and they called that too high for serious gamers, I haven't seen any LCD monitors that are lower than 9ms as far as review sites go so I don't see how 11 is all that high, weird.

[FerociousSwan]

Lol I could do that ... Wouldn't look the best though!!

I've been looking at this one now.

http://www.box.co.uk/Iiyama_XUB2790HS-B ... 56683.html

What you think?

[Xyga]

Looks like the same, only with your average AH-IPS panel in place of the AMVA+.
Expect strong corner glow, and grainy matte coating.

When it comes to IPS I believe the Samsungs (AD-PLS and particularly S-PLS) are a little better compared to the aging LG/Pana S-IPS & AH-IPS.

Just confirm something please; your current Samsung is an S27C750P (AMVA+) or S27C750PS (AD-PLS or S-PLS) ?

If you got the PLS version then it's probably already a bit better than that IPS Iiyama you linked.
And if you pick the X2783HSU-B1 you got to keep in mind it is quite different since it is a VA type.