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 Post subject: Re: gscartsw / gscartsw_lite / gcompsw switches support thre
PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 4:10 pm 



Joined: 16 Jul 2017
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Looks like I missed the bus on this round for the lite, is this something that is continuously open for pre-orders or will I need to wait?


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 Post subject: Re: gscartsw / gscartsw_lite / gcompsw switches support thre
PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 5:00 pm 


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superg wrote:
FBX wrote:
I believe PAL format doesn't have csync by default, but your cables from retrogamingcables have a built-in sync separator circuit that likely uses the Luma signal for sync (or possibly just the composite video line). At any rate, they should work fine routed through the gscartsw_lite.

I'd advice against cables with builtin sync stripper, it adds lag and the same functionality is implemented in gscartsw_lite (with much less latency). If there is native csync output it's fine (given that it's correctly loaded), if not - go with cvbs.


Looking on RetroGamingCables's web site, it looks like they offer a PAL sync-on-Luma cable as an alternative to the PAL sync-separated cable. I take it that would be his better choice then?
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 Post subject: Re: gscartsw / gscartsw_lite / gcompsw switches support thre
PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 5:21 pm 


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FBX wrote:
superg wrote:
FBX wrote:
I believe PAL format doesn't have csync by default, but your cables from retrogamingcables have a built-in sync separator circuit that likely uses the Luma signal for sync (or possibly just the composite video line). At any rate, they should work fine routed through the gscartsw_lite.

I'd advice against cables with builtin sync stripper, it adds lag and the same functionality is implemented in gscartsw_lite (with much less latency). If there is native csync output it's fine (given that it's correctly loaded), if not - go with cvbs.


Looking on RetroGamingCables's web site, it looks like they offer a PAL sync-on-Luma cable as an alternative to the PAL sync-separated cable. I take it that would be his better choice then?

Yeah, I'd go with that.
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 Post subject: Re: gscartsw / gscartsw_lite / gcompsw switches support thre
PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 10:02 pm 



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[quote="superg"][quote="FBX"][quote="superg"]
[quote="FBX"]
I believe PAL format doesn't have csync by default, but your cables from retrogamingcables have a built-in sync separator circuit that likely uses the Luma signal for sync (or possibly just the composite video line). At any rate, they should work fine routed through the gscartsw_lite.[/quote]
I'd advice against cables with builtin sync stripper, it adds lag and the same functionality is implemented in gscartsw_lite (with much less latency). If there is native csync output it's fine (given that it's correctly loaded), if not - go with cvbs.
[/quote]

Looking on RetroGamingCables's web site, it looks like they offer a PAL sync-on-Luma cable as an alternative to the PAL sync-separated cable. I take it that would be his better choice then?[/quote]
Yeah, I'd go with that.[/quote]

Ah no really. Already purchased 5 CSYNC cables at £20 each because I was led to believe that CSYNC was the best sync according to the boys at my life in gaming. They are most expensive too


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 Post subject: Re: gscartsw / gscartsw_lite / gcompsw switches support thre
PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 10:19 pm 


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Ward1986 wrote:
Ah no really. Already purchased 5 CSYNC cables at £20 each because I was led to believe that CSYNC was the best sync according to the boys at my life in gaming. They are most expensive too

It is the best sync if console can output it natively. If not, usually they put CVBS->CSYNC chip inside SCART connector, that's what I was talking about.
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 Post subject: Re: gscartsw / gscartsw_lite / gcompsw switches support thre
PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 10:58 pm 



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superg wrote:
Ward1986 wrote:
Ah no really. Already purchased 5 CSYNC cables at £20 each because I was led to believe that CSYNC was the best sync according to the boys at my life in gaming. They are most expensive too

It is the best sync if console can output it natively. If not, usually they put CVBS->CSYNC chip inside SCART connector, that's what I was talking about.


Not 100% on the technical aspect of sync. Here's the description for their Nintendo Super SNES RGB SCART (PAL) wired for composite sync CSYNC;

"This cable is screened to minimise interference , the SCART plug audio ground is connected to reduce the buzzing noise often experienced with some cables, and both ground pins 5 and 6 on the Multi AV connector are connected via separate wires to the SCART plug to also help reduce noise. It also benefits from internal grounding resistors for impedance matching, which are often fitted to transmission line to minimise wave reflections and to maximise power! This cable is wired for composite sync (CSYNC) which is achieved using a sync separator circuit built into the SCART plug."

Versus their Nintendo Super SNES RGB SCART cable SYNC on LUMA for PAL console;

"This cable is screened to minimise interference , the SCART plug audio ground is connected to reduce the buzzing noise often experienced with some cables, and both ground pins 5 and 6 on the Multi AV connector are connected via separate wires to the SCART plug to also help reduce noise. It also benefits from internal grounding resistors for impedance matching, which are often fitted to transmission line to minimise wave reflections and to maximise power! This cable is wired for "sync over luma" which takes the sync signal from pin 7 of the Multi-AV out which is normally reserved for use with s-video, but the resulting picture is far superior than the regular "sync over composite video" (Multi-AV pin 9), which can suffer from a checker-board effects on screen. Therefore this special "sync on luma" cable gives solid colours."


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 Post subject: Re: gscartsw / gscartsw_lite / gcompsw switches support thre
PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 11:38 pm 



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Ward1986 wrote:

Ah no really. Already purchased 5 CSYNC cables at £20 each because I was led to believe that CSYNC was the best sync according to the boys at my life in gaming. They are most expensive too


Some consoles output csync natively and don't require something in the cable or further down the line to convert to csync.

It depends on the console. Here is a work in progress page describing the output of the different ones:

http://retrorgb.com/csync.html

It may just be the PAL SNES that you have to worry about.


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 Post subject: Re: gscartsw / gscartsw_lite / gcompsw switches support thre
PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 6:18 am 


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Ward1986 wrote:
This cable is wired for composite sync (CSYNC) which is achieved using a sync separator circuit built into the SCART plug."



The underlined part is what superg is referring to as not optimal for the gscartsw-lite, since it already had a sync reconstruction circuit built in. So in that regard, sync-on-luma would be more ideal (unfortunately that site appears to be sold out on them).

As for My Life in Gaming videos, they are right in that you want to use csync whenever possible, it's just that some consoles don't have it connected (PAL SNES and PS1/2 for example). So for these situations concerning the gscartsw-lite, you'd want to use sync-on-luma rather than a sync stripper circuit cable.
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 Post subject: Re: gscartsw / gscartsw_lite / gcompsw switches support thre
PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 7:03 am 



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Well, I don't understand very well why everybody is talking about "Csync" (cause maybe I don't know exactly what it is ? :D), it begins to scare me somehow...

I'm waiting for my gscart lite and I have only PAL (french) consoles (SNES, NES, Master System, N64). SuperG told me weeks ago that It should works fine with these 4 consoles but now I'm seeing that maybe there will be some issues with Master System or SNES....?


If someone could help..



Thanks a lot


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 Post subject: Re: gscartsw / gscartsw_lite / gcompsw switches support thre
PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 9:20 am 


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franckytaz wrote:
Well, I don't understand very well why everybody is talking about "Csync" (cause maybe I don't know exactly what it is ? :D), it begins to scare me somehow...

I'm waiting for my gscart lite and I have only PAL (french) consoles (SNES, NES, Master System, N64). SuperG told me weeks ago that It should works fine with these 4 consoles but now I'm seeing that maybe there will be some issues with Master System or SNES....?


If someone could help..



It simply comes down to what your console NATIVELY supports:

If it has native csync, use cables that hook up to it.

If it does NOT have native csync, use sync-on-luma.

If it does NOT have sync-on-luma, use sync-on-composite-video.

The gascartsw_lite will strip the sync data from the luma or composite video lines itself.

In short, native support preference = csync > luma sync > composite video sync

-FBX
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 Post subject: Re: gscartsw / gscartsw_lite / gcompsw switches support thre
PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 11:18 am 


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franckytaz wrote:
Well, I don't understand very well why everybody is talking about "Csync" (cause maybe I don't know exactly what it is ? :D), it begins to scare me somehow...

I'm waiting for my gscart lite and I have only PAL (french) consoles (SNES, NES, Master System, N64). SuperG told me weeks ago that It should works fine with these 4 consoles but now I'm seeing that maybe there will be some issues with Master System or SNES....?


If someone could help..



Thanks a lot

It will all work with CVBS (composite sync). Don't worry about cables at this point. Master System / Mega Drive 2 might need sync regeneration turned on but that's about it.
All signal quality things highly depend on your setup. If you see no issues - there is nothing you have to do. Don't buy anything in advance!
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 Post subject: Re: gscartsw / gscartsw_lite / gcompsw switches support thre
PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 11:55 am 



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superg wrote:
franckytaz wrote:
Well, I don't understand very well why everybody is talking about "Csync" (cause maybe I don't know exactly what it is ? :D), it begins to scare me somehow...

I'm waiting for my gscart lite and I have only PAL (french) consoles (SNES, NES, Master System, N64). SuperG told me weeks ago that It should works fine with these 4 consoles but now I'm seeing that maybe there will be some issues with Master System or SNES....?


If someone could help..



Thanks a lot

It will all work with CVBS (composite sync). Don't worry about cables at this point. Master System / Mega Drive 2 might need sync regeneration turned on but that's about it.
All signal quality things highly depend on your setup. If you see no issues - there is nothing you have to do. Don't buy anything in advance!




Well, OK I will wait for the gscart lite then come back here and tell everybody if I have some problem with.

Thanks to all


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 Post subject: Re: gscartsw / gscartsw_lite / gcompsw switches support thre
PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 12:42 pm 


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I finished assembling of some units yesterday but it was too late to start packing.
I'm packing today and dropping off on Tuesday.
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 Post subject: Re: gscartsw / gscartsw_lite / gcompsw switches support thre
PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 12:49 pm 



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superg wrote:
Master System / Mega Drive 2 might need sync regeneration turned on but that's about it.


Is there a switch on the gscartsw_lite for sync therefore (like the 3.4 model)? I was under the assumption sync regeneration was automatic(?)


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 Post subject: Re: gscartsw / gscartsw_lite / gcompsw switches support thre
PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 12:51 pm 


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coderkind wrote:
superg wrote:
Master System / Mega Drive 2 might need sync regeneration turned on but that's about it.


Is there a switch on the gscartsw_lite for sync therefore (like the 3.4 model)? I was under the assumption sync regeneration was automatic(?)

Yes, there is on-off toggle switch. Usually you may leave it on.
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 Post subject: Re: gscartsw / gscartsw_lite / gcompsw switches support thre
PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 12:53 pm 



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Ok, thanks for the info @superg :)


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 Post subject: Re: gscartsw / gscartsw_lite / gcompsw switches support thre
PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2017 1:17 am 


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I got mail! I got mail! YAYYYYY!

(paypal notified me of shipment)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Gj8bin3vlQ

-FBX
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 Post subject: Re: gscartsw / gscartsw_lite / gcompsw switches support thre
PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2017 1:28 am 


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FBX wrote:
I got mail! I got mail! YAYYYYY!

(paypal notified me of shipment)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Gj8bin3vlQ

-FBX

Yeah, I've just finished printing the labels, will drop off tomorrow and continue to solder more units.
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 Post subject: Re: gscartsw / gscartsw_lite / gcompsw switches support thre
PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2017 3:12 am 



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Almost forgot about this. Paid for mine 10 weeks ago. Is it coming? :)


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 Post subject: Re: gscartsw / gscartsw_lite / gcompsw switches support thre
PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2017 4:26 am 


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chromium wrote:
Almost forgot about this. Paid for mine 10 weeks ago. Is it coming? :)

It will come, I'm assembling and shipping, there was a delay due to a manufacturer fault which I am resolving manually now.
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 Post subject: Re: gscartsw / gscartsw_lite / gcompsw switches support thre
PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2017 5:32 am 



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superg wrote:
chromium wrote:
Almost forgot about this. Paid for mine 10 weeks ago. Is it coming? :)

It will come, I'm assembling and shipping, there was a delay due to a manufacturer fault which I am resolving manually now.


Great! Thanks :)


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 Post subject: Re: gscartsw / gscartsw_lite / gcompsw switches support thre
PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2017 7:50 am 



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Some of my consoles output native csync, while some others dont.

-> Is there any downside of having the integrated sync-stripper turned on while using one of the former consoles?

-> Is there any downside of having the sync-regen turned on when there are no sync issues?


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 Post subject: Re: gscartsw / gscartsw_lite / gcompsw switches support thre
PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2017 12:39 pm 


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RaphM wrote:
Some of my consoles output native csync, while some others dont.
-> Is there any downside of having the integrated sync-stripper turned on while using one of the former consoles?

Shouldn't be a problem. The ON/OFF sync regeneration switch was added for two things:
1. to forward unstripped CVBS (composite) if you really want it on output through SCART->RCA adapter
2. for the situations when there might be a problem, I haven't experienced any issues yet but read couple of posts above there is a report that WII / GARO was unstable with it turned on (might be actually a GARO problem)

RaphM wrote:
-> Is there any downside of having the sync-regen turned on when there are no sync issues?

No, you can safely keep it on all the time.
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 Post subject: Re: gscartsw / gscartsw_lite / gcompsw switches support thre
PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2017 2:08 pm 



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superg wrote:
RaphM wrote:
Some of my consoles output native csync, while some others dont.
-> Is there any downside of having the integrated sync-stripper turned on while using one of the former consoles?

Shouldn't be a problem. The ON/OFF sync regeneration switch was added for two things:
1. to forward unstripped CVBS (composite) if you really want it on output through SCART->RCA adapter
2. for the situations when there might be a problem, I haven't experienced any issues yet but read couple of posts above there is a report that WII / GARO was unstable with it turned on (might be actually a GARO problem)

RaphM wrote:
-> Is there any downside of having the sync-regen turned on when there are no sync issues?

No, you can safely keep it on all the time.


Most of my consoles output csync already. I'm not entirely sure if my cables have the correct resistors and/or capacitors to bring down sync to proper levels.
Should I be worried about connecting to the gscart switch?
Make sure I have proper cables?


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 Post subject: Re: gscartsw / gscartsw_lite / gcompsw switches support thre
PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2017 3:23 pm 


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mjs0686 wrote:
Most of my consoles output csync already. I'm not entirely sure if my cables have the correct resistors and/or capacitors to bring down sync to proper levels.
Should I be worried about connecting to the gscart switch?
Make sure I have proper cables?

Depends on where you got your cables from, usually there is a resistor on SCART pin 20, that's all you need.
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 Post subject: Re: gscartsw / gscartsw_lite / gcompsw switches support thre
PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2017 3:53 pm 


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superg wrote:
Depends on where you got your cables from, usually there is a resistor on SCART pin 20, that's all you need.



Although visible inspection isn't enough to determine this (as I learned the hard way) because the resistor might be in the console end of the cable. You have to use a multimeter to test the entire line as per Bob's video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z3sE3uk ... e=youtu.be


-FBX
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 Post subject: Re: gscartsw / gscartsw_lite / gcompsw switches support thre
PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2017 3:55 pm 


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FBX wrote:
superg wrote:
Depends on where you got your cables from, usually there is a resistor on SCART pin 20, that's all you need.



Although visible inspection isn't enough to determine this (as I learned the hard way) because the resistor might be in the console end of the cable. You have to use a multimeter to test the entire line as per Bob's video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z3sE3uk ... e=youtu.be


-FBX

Wow, a good point!
Couldn't imagine that somebody will put resistor in a console end.
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 Post subject: Re: gscartsw / gscartsw_lite / gcompsw switches support thre
PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2017 3:58 pm 


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For some consoles, it can be very difficult to get your multimeter probe inside the console-end of the connector. In these cases, it may be useful to take the console motherboard out of its shell, plug the cable in, and then test the resistance between the SCART pin and the solder joint on the motherboard.

superg wrote:
Wow, a good point!
Couldn't imagine that somebody will put resistor in a console end.


It's apparently considered the correct way to do it, but there is much less room in that side, and it's often difficult or impossible to open that connector without destroying the cable.


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 Post subject: Re: gscartsw / gscartsw_lite / gcompsw switches support thre
PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2017 3:59 pm 


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Guspaz wrote:
It's apparently considered the correct way to do it, but there is much less room in that side, and it's often difficult or impossible to open that connector without destroying the cable.

Why is it considered so?
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 Post subject: Re: gscartsw / gscartsw_lite / gcompsw switches support thre
PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2017 4:06 pm 


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I'm not sure about the reasoning from an electrical standpoint, it's just what I've heard repeated by enough people who know far more about it than me. I believe that Tim Worthington had said it was to reduce audio buzz: I would guess that the higher the voltage, the more likely it would be to couple to the other lines?


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