shmups.system11.org

Shmups Forum
 
* FAQ    * Search
 * Register  * Login 
It is currently Tue Apr 25, 2017 8:27 am View unanswered posts
View active topics



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 812 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 24, 25, 26, 27, 28  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Sony W6 series LCD review - 2013's best gaming TV
PostPosted: Sat Oct 15, 2016 5:06 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 05 Nov 2013
Posts: 4695
Location: EU
There must be only one manufacturer-supplier of integrated 4K scaling chips in China, and he's on baijiu all day.
_________________
Image


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Sony W6 series LCD review - 2013's best gaming TV
PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2016 3:06 pm 



Joined: 12 Oct 2016
Posts: 1
Hey guys,

I just bought a brandnew 42w705b TV for my gaming setup.
To check the display for dead pixels I have displayed a solid white image and saw that it has a slight shadow along the left side of the panel. It's not really noticeable during normal content but since I know it's there I'm a little disappointed. Tried a few white pictures so it's definitely the TV.
I know that lcd TVs are never perfectly lighted but now I'm not sure if this just normal or if I should try to return it with the chance of getting a worse one or a damage trough shipping.

I made a photo with my smartphone.
backlight, contrast and brightness are on maximum.

Image

I'd be very grateful for any advice


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Sony W6 series LCD review - 2013's best gaming TV
PostPosted: Wed Nov 23, 2016 2:24 am 


User avatar

Joined: 07 Jan 2015
Posts: 123
Location: America
has anyone compared the framemeister's deinterlacing to the native deinterlacing the Sony W does?

I personally love playing ps2 games deinterlaced by my sony W, just want to know where the framemeister stands since I've never seen one in action
_________________
Kidnap the presidents wife without a plan...


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Sony W6 series LCD review - 2013's best gaming TV
PostPosted: Wed Nov 23, 2016 9:48 am 


User avatar

Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 10300
Location: Germany
The deinterlacing itself is great on the Sony, really really good. The problem is that the Sony adds a general blur to 480i images, which the FM doesn't. So, overall the FM will give you sharper results.

You can see this on static images. If you have a PS2 game that supports 480i and 480p output, then you will see a difference on the Sony (the 480i source being less sharp), while the FM is able to produce images looking like native 480p.

The FM isn't great with 480p sources though, so 480p will look better directly connected to the Sony.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Sony W6 series LCD review - 2013's best gaming TV
PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2016 7:59 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 18 Jan 2010
Posts: 680
Location: Poland
Xyga wrote:
Some 2016 models could be interesting as well, the 'WD75' series, but zero reviews around, can't guess.


Same site you posted the 705c review:

http://opinioteca.com/tvs/analisis/sony/wd750/

There is also a mini-review here, but also with lag tests and some other measurements:

https://tweakers.net/reviews/4753/1/hdtvs-rond-de-600-euro-vier-keer-49-inch-getest-inleiding.html

On a sidenote:

http://hothardware.com/news/sony-allegedly-covering-up-input-lag-issues-on-bravia-tvs

I was pretty curious that those WD75 sets had drastic differences in prices in between shops until i realised that those were slightly different models.

WD755 - Motionflow XR 200, black bezel
WD757 - Motionflow XR 400, silver bezel
WD758 - Motionflow XR 400, black bezel
WD759 - Motionflow XR 400, black bezel, Linux (?!)

I am especially curious about the last model. I haven't seen a review of those particular sets yet, only with the standard operating system.
I wouldn't be suprised if the lag / processing time on those Linux sets would be drastically different. I'm not entirely sure though that i want to
spend another 100 EUR to risk it.

Interestingly enough, the Philips PFH5500 had its lag reduced from 42ms to 25ms, only through an android update. Source here:

http://szymonadamus.pl/philips-pfh5500-plusy-i-minusy-test/

[EDIT 1]

Notion about "Linux", from the Sony website:

Image

I have no idea what this means, as i was looking at Videos of these sets and the System looks identical.

Weirdly enough, it says "Linux" on a few other sets:
KDL-32WD757
KDL-43WD757

Even weirder, those models have "-" written in the operating system:
KDL-32WD759
KDL-43WD759

So yeah, how about making it more bizarre?

I was thinking for a minute that those sets might simply have Android on them, similar as the W755C sets over the W705C sets but that doesn't seem to be the case.

[EDIT 2]

More confusion:

According to RTINGS:

http://uk.rtings.com/tv/learn/fake-refresh-rates-samsung-clear-motion-rate-vs-sony-motionflow-vs-lg-trumotion

Motionflow 400 means that the panel is 100 hz native.

Although, again from the Sony website:

Image

It says "hardware: 50hz"


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Sony W6 series LCD review - 2013's best gaming TV
PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2016 10:06 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 20 Aug 2016
Posts: 362
Somebody needs to step in and outlaw this refresh rate obfuscation. It's getting ridiculous.
_________________
We apologize for the inconvenience


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Sony W6 series LCD review - 2013's best gaming TV
PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2016 10:44 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 05 Nov 2013
Posts: 4695
Location: EU
I think they're all running the same Sony-designed Linux build anyway, with the same 25ms of lag (2015 'C' models had 35ms so it' a little better), don't trust their comparative specs sheets because most of the time the person in charge of editing the product description simply didn't fill the blanks, it's just confusing people.

EDIT: yeah it's as he says; don't read too much in the '50Hz' and MotionFlow ratings.
It just means they're all standard 50/60Hz sets, and the MotionFlow figures are just hints about whether motion interpolation options are available in the settings or not.
IIRC 200 means there aren't any interpolation options at all, only the flickering/strobing blur reduction feature.
Starting with 400 you might have a 'clear motion' option somewhere in the settings, but it's something you have to confirm reading each exact model number's manual (either in .pdf or online, if you can find them) because the generic ones don't discriminate those little differences.
In any case motion interpolation is not useful for games, only for sports and/or movies.

One major difference I've noticed is that they're using IPS panels now, but probably not with every size and model, that's also something not very clear in the specs and reviews.
Typically with Sony you'll want a VA (AMVA) panel, because they're not known to do well with IPS, well, not in the entry and mid-range levels at least.

In any case I doubt we'll ever see sub-1 frame 1080p Sony sets like the 2013~early2015 again, that category is slowly dying and many name brands will probably discontinue their Full-HD category soon.
Some entry-level Samsung 4K have lag under 20ms and from what we've seen (little but heh) they are more flexible with things like the OSSC's linetriple mode (when the Sony Full-HD sets have a history of flat out rejecting it).
_________________
Image


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Sony W6 series LCD review - 2013's best gaming TV
PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2016 10:40 am 


User avatar

Joined: 18 Jan 2010
Posts: 680
Location: Poland
Xyga wrote:
I think they're all running the same Sony-designed Linux build anyway, with the same 25ms of lag (2015 'C' models had 35ms so it' a little better), don't trust their comparative specs sheets because most of the time the person in charge of editing the product description simply didn't fill the blanks, it's just confusing people.


Yes, it seems so that this is indeed an error. I have however contacted Sony about this anyway.

Xyga wrote:
EDIT: yeah it's as he says; don't read too much in the '50Hz' and MotionFlow ratings.
It just means they're all standard 50/60Hz sets, and the MotionFlow figures are just hints about whether motion interpolation options are available in the settings or not.
IIRC 200 means there aren't any interpolation options at all, only the flickering/strobing blur reduction feature.
Starting with 400 you might have a 'clear motion' option somewhere in the settings, but it's something you have to confirm reading each exact model number's manual (either in .pdf or online, if you can find them) because the generic ones don't discriminate those little differences.
In any case motion interpolation is not useful for games, only for sports and/or movies.


To be perfectly honest I don't even necessarily care about the whole Motionflow thing at all. What I do care about however is if a company tries to flat out trick you into believing that you are paying for something which doesn't do anything, which is class-action-lawsuit material.

Xyga wrote:
One major difference I've noticed is that they're using IPS panels now, but probably not with every size and model, that's also something not very clear in the specs and reviews.
Typically with Sony you'll want a VA (AMVA) panel, because they're not known to do well with IPS, well, not in the entry and mid-range levels at least.


Maybe it's not very clear, but very obvious. All those IPS panels reach around 1000:1 contrast whereas most VA have contrast above 3000:1. It gets even more obvious when testing the viewing angles.

For this year, Sony has gone full random with their panels. Out of the WD75, all of them have IPS except the 43" model. The WD65 are VA, however the panels are pretty meh.

Xyga wrote:
In any case I doubt we'll ever see sub-1 frame 1080p Sony sets like the 2013~early2015 again, that category is slowly dying and many name brands will probably discontinue their Full-HD category soon.


Now this is something i wanna get into a bit more, as I am right now in the midst of trying to buy myself a new TV and for the last 3 days i spent many hours in different electronics shops looking for candidates.

Now for the lag - as far as this certainly is one of the things i look at first when researching a new TV, i wouldn't call it a dealbreaker. Response time is a dealbreaker for me though and i have to say the response times of this years sets are certainly concerning.

I wouldn't really call sub 1-frame sets a "category". I am convinced that this was a happy accident by Sony however the fact that this "feature" wasn't used to advertise them makes me believe that they never really cared for it. Furthermore, I wouldn't go as far as to say that Sony "is doing something wrong" now that their sets are slower.

Xyga wrote:
Some entry-level Samsung 4K have lag under 20ms and from what we've seen (little but heh) they are more flexible with things like the OSSC's linetriple mode (when the Sony Full-HD sets have a history of flat out rejecting it).


While I think this topic would really benefit from a split, i'll post here anyway.

Yes - there are two interesting midrangers by Samsung this year - the K5500 (K5600) and the KU6000 (KU6200). The first is a FHD set, the second a UHD one, both have measured lag below 20ms, both have VA panels and very high contrast and great blacks.

In fact I am trying to decide between the Sony WD75 and one of those Samsungs and boy is that difficult. While on paper both those Samsung sets are completely crushing the Sony, comparing them live is a whole other story.

First of all, although obviously all the TVs in shops are set to full brightness and have all their features switched on, I could every time pin-point which one is the Sony WD75 from afar. While being dimmer and having 1/4 of the contrast of the Samsungs, the Sony simply "pops" with a rich and vibrant picture. Of course this is also thanks to artificial boosting, but it just looks much better and not so crude and "in your face" as the korean sets. The KU6000 weirdly enough looks the worst.

Secondly, as a TV is basically a piece of furniture, imho it has to be easthetically pleasing and solid as well. And boy are those Samsungs bad. The KU6000 is so-so with the plastic at least not trying to imitate metal, but it has some glossy accents on the stand and bezel which look awful. The K5500 doesn't have those glossy details on the bezel, but instead has the ugliest, and shiniest, grey plastic back plate i have ever seen and it's super prone to scratching as well. The Sony is simply beautiful. The thin aluminium bezels together with the thin panel make it stand out a lot. I would say that even the plastic WD65 are nicer than the Samsungs.

Furthermore - I am not knowledgeable enough to say if this is just an effect but although the Sony is glossier than the Samsungs (in fact it's very glossy) i find that it actually reflects less and looks better in a very bright environment. Reflections from lamps where pretty local, whereas on the koreans it kind of "spread" on the panel.

Last but not least - the blacks. While obviously the Sony lacks very deep blacks i have to say that it still goes very dark for an IPS (apparently x900c levels). And with the loss of blacks you gain the viewing angles. The Samsungs deteoriate so fast that I could imagine simply laying down on the couch instead of sitting in the middle might lower the experience. The Sony does a great job with that:

Image

Image

Last but not least during the last few days I started to doubt reviews, especially the "professional" ones. And while I am a fan of measurable data and objective tests it became apparent that these are flawed as well.

Take for example, the black uniformity tests for the K5500:

https://tweakers.net/reviews/4753/7/hdtvs-rond-de-600-euro-vier-keer-49-inch-getest-beeldeigenschappen.html

Image

http://opinioteca.com/tvs/analisis/samsung/k5500/

Image

You can clearly see the backlight bleeding on the Samsung in the Tweakers review and they also mention this in the review. Opinioteca gives it a much higher score in terms of black uniformity.

Or the judder tests in these two reviews:

http://opinioteca.com/tvs/analisis/samsung/ku6000/

http://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/samsung/ku6300

While Rtings says it fails the judder test, Opinioteca says it passes. By no means do I want to discredit one or the other reviewer but I would refrain from using only one particular source for all reviews.

The KU6000 is very tempting, but there is also another argument against it which is a bit personal: I know that once I will have a 4K screen i will try to play all games and watch all the movies in 4k which will make the rest of my setup (most importantly - my gaming PC) obsolete.

I also haven't talked about two arguments which are less important for me but might be for someone else. First - connections. There is no Euro / Scart nor Headphone out on the Samsungs. Second - scaling. While Sony has a good reputation with their scaling engines, Samsung doesn't really so. I will feed my TV mostly FHD / UHD material from a PC, consoles and maybe an OSSC in the future so both those differences aren't very important to me.

So, yeah, basically


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Sony W6 series LCD review - 2013's best gaming TV
PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2016 11:31 am 


User avatar

Joined: 05 Nov 2013
Posts: 4695
Location: EU
Actually when I said 'category' I meant Full-HD, not specifically the sub-1 frame ones which indeed happen mostly by accident.
Today everything's focused on 4K so don't expect proper and detailed information from manufacturer websites when it comes to Full-HD (good luck getting a response from someone who has any clue what you're talking about), and reviews are so scarce and late now it's like that category is already gone.

Samsung sets have always been poorer built and technically less refined than Sony indeed, but like Vizio (US-only) at the moment it's the one brand offering specs that fit some essential requirements for some people (low lag and/or ossc compatibility as I've mentioned).
I think LG do too but their sets have been extra shitty these past years especially in regards to response, for a brand selling mainly IPS panels it's a real shame. Their scaling sucks too.

Maybe Sony have gotten better with IPS even in the entry-to-mid levels, dunno, demo units typically have strong contrast and black enhancers on to cheat you (some automatic depending on the ambiant light) but whatever the brand name you know IPS is always more risky because of the high probability of backlight bleeding.
Indeed from professional reviews you will most always see cherry picked units so they're not reliable in these situations whatever their test results (random flawed review units happen, though much less often imho). Even individual user reviews can be deceptive if the reviewer was just lucky with his set, then there's the software and reviewer's understanding... IMHO IPS is a 50/50 gamble, again good returns/refund policy from the seller is a must.
The one thing you know when buying a VA is that there's considerably less risks of getting a unit with obnoxious backlight bleeding, also frankly the AUO AMVA panels Sony use are good and well-driven (well at least they used to...)

PS: I don't know if you remember but from the 2015 W series only the 32" 32W705C (or 32W700C, whatever depending on the country and color) was said to have sub-1 frame lag. It's been discontinued but a few units are still in stock here and there, probably the last opportunity ever to experience the low-lag Sony W series.
That one's almost 100% certain to have the (good) AUO AMVA panel btw.
_________________
Image


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Sony W6 series LCD review - 2013's best gaming TV
PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2016 12:39 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 18 Jan 2010
Posts: 680
Location: Poland
Xyga wrote:
PS: I don't know if you remember but from the 2015 W series only the 32" 32W705C (or 32W700C, whatever depending on the country and color) was said to have sub-1 frame lag. It's been discontinued but a few units are still in stock here and there, probably the last opportunity ever to experience the low-lag Sony W series.
That one's almost 100% certain to have the (good) AUO AMVA panel btw.


Well you might have realised that I am interested in "slightly" bigger sets :)

If size wouldn't be important, there is a used mint KDL-42W655A with extended warranty (3 years left) in my area to snatch for about 400 EUR.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Sony W6 series LCD review - 2013's best gaming TV
PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2016 1:17 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 11 May 2015
Posts: 367
Location: America
this might be a bit of a silly question but, are there any high-quality TV sets/monitors that do a decent job of frame interpolation/doubling 30fps to 60fps with a fairly low amount of input lag? (sub 30ms)

(or is there an external solution I could use an existing display with?)

probably barking up the wrong tree with that question but, I'd kind of like to see what decent frame interpolation would look like for a few different games.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Sony W6 series LCD review - 2013's best gaming TV
PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2016 2:51 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 26 Oct 2012
Posts: 413
Location: Germany
Do you want to do doubling or interpolation?

Cause doubling is what you get anyways if you output a 30 fps game using the usual 60 Hz...


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Sony W6 series LCD review - 2013's best gaming TV
PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2016 3:29 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 11 May 2015
Posts: 367
Location: America
Thomago wrote:
Do you want to do doubling or interpolation?

Cause doubling is what you get anyways if you output a 30 fps game using the usual 60 Hz...


I guess it would be interpolation as its adding in frames that aren't really there, to make the motion less jerky.


*edit*

sort of like these gameplay demos

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FZ0SAxGJIDc (N64)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IHcmHmz1-x0 (DreamCast)


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Sony W6 series LCD review - 2013's best gaming TV
PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2016 5:44 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 26 Oct 2012
Posts: 413
Location: Germany
That's a guess, but I think that "real" motion interpolation (as in: more than simply blending adjacent frames together) would produce an additional lag of at least 33,3 ms (= frametime of something running at 30 fps), likely even double that or more.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Sony W6 series LCD review - 2013's best gaming TV
PostPosted: Wed Dec 07, 2016 2:23 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 11 May 2015
Posts: 367
Location: America
Thomago wrote:
That's a guess, but I think that "real" motion interpolation (as in: more than simply blending adjacent frames together) would produce an additional lag of at least 33,3 ms (= frametime of something running at 30 fps), likely even double that or more.


that really wouldn't be too bad, as my main panel has an input lag of about 30ms in game mode. unfortunately the Samsung implementation of motion interpolation (on my un40) is really glitchy (uneven motion, ghosting, and lots of digital noise when using scanlines), and can't be used in conjunction with game mode. so the input lag when using it is over 100ms (making it practically useless to me).

I know that recent sets by Sony and LG are supposed to have much better motion interpolation, but I never really see people talk about those features in the context of video games (most of the reviews just use Blu-ray movies as testing material).


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Sony W6 series LCD review - 2013's best gaming TV
PostPosted: Wed Dec 07, 2016 2:30 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 10300
Location: Germany
One the main reasons why it's so hard to do it properly with games is that most motion interpolations algorithms depends on perfect cadences and you run into massive stutter when a game starts dropping frames.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Sony W6 series LCD review - 2013's best gaming TV
PostPosted: Sun Dec 11, 2016 11:40 am 


User avatar

Joined: 11 May 2015
Posts: 367
Location: America
Fudoh wrote:
One the main reasons why it's so hard to do it properly with games is that most motion interpolations algorithms depends on perfect cadences and you run into massive stutter when a game starts dropping frames.


hmmm that makes sense, but if the game has a solid frame rate. that shouldn't be much of an issue right?

I guess it's probably because I've been a little spoiled by the smooth 60 FPS frame rates of recent PC conversions, going back to some of the Jakey 30fps psx and n64 games is a bit headache inducing. I was thinking about using emulation to increase the frame rate of a few older games but haven't found a way that does it without de-syncing the audio or causing additional issues.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Sony W6 series LCD review - 2013's best gaming TV
PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 6:01 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 05 Nov 2013
Posts: 4695
Location: EU
About time: http://www.theverge.com/ces/2017/1/4/14159258/sony-oled-bravia-4k-hdr-tv-ces-2017-specs

Of course it's LG supplying the panel, duh.

No problem with that, but...fucking Android again ? :x

And that vibrating speaker-screen, I don't see the point when the kick stand is so thick anyway...
_________________
Image


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Sony W6 series LCD review - 2013's best gaming TV
PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 6:06 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 10300
Location: Germany
want to guess on the price ? I predict 8000 EUR for the 65" model.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Sony W6 series LCD review - 2013's best gaming TV
PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 6:10 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 30 Apr 2012
Posts: 1694
Location: Kentucky
Xyga wrote:
About time: http://www.theverge.com/ces/2017/1/4/14159258/sony-oled-bravia-4k-hdr-tv-ces-2017-specs

Of course it's LG supplying the panel, duh.

No problem with that, but...fucking Android again ? :x

And that vibrating speaker-screen, I don't see the point when the kick stand is so thick anyway...


Considering all the Internet of Things and Alexa integration seen at CES this year, I think Android is here to stay in the long-term unfortunately. That wallpaper OLED LG showed looked pretty cool though!

Beginning to think monitors may be the last bastion for those most sensitive to lag. They're creeping up in size, but also in resolution and price...


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Sony W6 series LCD review - 2013's best gaming TV
PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 6:19 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 05 Nov 2013
Posts: 4695
Location: EU
Fudoh wrote:
want to guess on the price ? I predict 8000 EUR for the 65" model.

Sounds realistic. No way I can spend that anytime soon but I'm just happy to see those oled panels now in more capable hands. If Sony can build experience with consumer oled the future looks bright. Well, brighter than with just LG and Panasonic.

bobrocks95 wrote:
I think Android is here to stay in the long-term unfortunately.

You never know what'll happen, who knows it's also probably even possible to get low lag with Android. Fingers crossed.
_________________
Image


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Sony W6 series LCD review - 2013's best gaming TV
PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 6:47 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 20 Aug 2016
Posts: 362
Because, dropping a networked computer into everything we own is so clever.

We can't run it completely open source on Linux because that makes too much sense.

Android won't fix it because the manufacturer still has to maintain their proprietary blobs (drivers) and their custom "skin".

So, basically, the manufacturer moves on and leaves an open window to your home and a loaded DDoS gun in your entertainment center. That's the same result you get with a pack of fragmented OEM specific software.

Fantastic.

Hey, you get built in apps. Yay.
_________________
We apologize for the inconvenience


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Sony W6 series LCD review - 2013's best gaming TV
PostPosted: Sat Jan 07, 2017 1:50 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 11 May 2015
Posts: 367
Location: America
Xyga wrote:
You never know what'll happen, who knows it's also probably even possible to get low lag with Android. Fingers crossed.


yeah, supposedly an update to nougat (7.1.1) or whatever the next version of android after nougat will address some input lag issues with the operating system. although that probably won't help any of the TVs available now. have any of the TV manufacturers ever done a full numbered OS update with any of their android-based products? (I doubt any of them have)



orange808 wrote:
Because, dropping a networked computer into everything we own is so clever.

We can't run it completely open source on Linux because that makes too much sense.

Android won't fix it because the manufacturer still has to maintain their proprietary blobs (drivers) and their custom "skin".

So, basically, the manufacturer moves on and leaves an open window to your home and a loaded DDoS gun in your entertainment center. That's the same result you get with a pack of fragmented OEM specific software.

Fantastic.

Hey, you get built in apps. Yay.


definitely agree. pretty much this, kind of makes me wonder how much of this is just marketing departments pushing for more useless features to sell the consumers on whatever or just how cozy government agencies have become with tech companies as of late. I feel that most of this always online, always connected nonsense is less about consumers wanting to control everything with their smart phones and more about governments just being lazy and paranoid and wanting to turn everything into an eavesdropping device. I'll never connect Wi-Fi or a LAN cable to my television. no compelling reason

I also don't like being served intrusive ads on a product I spent hundreds or thousands of dollars on.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Sony W6 series LCD review - 2013's best gaming TV
PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 9:39 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 04 Aug 2007
Posts: 454
Location: Europe
I want to refresh my setup, but this thread made me realize I missed the moment some very nice FHD Sony's could have been bought cheap. Is there any alternative to those models in 48"-50", preferably some entry/midrange models these days? No preference when it comes to panel type, it can be IPS or VA - what matters most to me is lag. Ideally, I'd like something with 16ms or below, but I guess most models are in the 20-25ms ballpark these days.

I'm torn between the Sony 49WD750/49WD755 and the Samsung models matrigs listed in his posts above. Samsung seems to be a bit better when it comes to lag, but I don't really like the looks of their TVs, they feel very cheap in comparison to Sony. Any other interesting TVs, or perhaps it's better to just wait a bit longer and see what is released 2017?
_________________
Image


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Sony W6 series LCD review - 2013's best gaming TV
PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 10:17 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 05 Nov 2013
Posts: 4695
Location: EU
In Europe we don't have alternatives like Vizio for extra low lag, but if the review on Rtings is correct, the LG UH6150 (UH615V in Europe) is a winner.
Be very careful: as per mentioned in the review it seems to be conditioned to the availability of a firmware update (dunno if the same firmware update is available to every locale)
Don't expect great overall quality...no 4:4:4 in that really low-lag game mode, PWM for dimming, bad and laggy PC mode, bizarre IPS-type RGBW PLS, not very good colors, it even sucks at movies.
No idea if it likes higher multiple modes from the OSSC also.
_________________
Image


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Sony W6 series LCD review - 2013's best gaming TV
PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 10:35 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 08 Mar 2015
Posts: 1552
Location: Up on the mountains, drifting with the 86
I'm also pretty sad that I missed out on those Sonys >w<
For the low lag of course, but also because of their pretty nice (and without additioinal lag I think?) fullscreen upscaling of the PSP.

I know I can get that feature with an external upscaler, but... there's just something really convenient about having the TV itself do a beautiful job with it and not having to shell out a couple extra hundred bucks for the upscaler. Really a nice feature


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Sony W6 series LCD review - 2013's best gaming TV
PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 11:08 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 30 Apr 2012
Posts: 1694
Location: Kentucky
Xyga wrote:
Don't expect great overall quality...no 4:4:4 in that really low-lag game mode, PWM for dimming, bad and laggy PC mode, bizarre IPS-type RGBW PLS, not very good colors, it even sucks at movies.


Sounds pretty rough for an $1,100 US display. Is that just the cost of demanding the absolute lowest lag possible, and not getting lucky with the current market?

FinalBaton wrote:
I'm also pretty sad that I missed out on those Sonys >w<
For the low lag of course, but also because of their pretty nice (and without additioinal lag I think?) fullscreen upscaling of the PSP.

I know I can get that feature with an external upscaler, but... there's just something really convenient about having the TV itself do a beautiful job with it and not having to shell out a couple extra hundred bucks for the upscaler. Really a nice feature


The feature is cool to have, but my PSTV looks much better on my Sony than a PSP hooked up via component. There's now even an option to disable filtering on the vPSP mode, and it's the sharpest I've seen the console on a display.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Sony W6 series LCD review - 2013's best gaming TV
PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 12:49 am 


User avatar

Joined: 08 Mar 2015
Posts: 1552
Location: Up on the mountains, drifting with the 86
bobrocks95 wrote:
The feature is cool to have, but my PSTV looks much better on my Sony than a PSP hooked up via component. There's now even an option to disable filtering on the vPSP mode, and it's the sharpest I've seen the console on a display.

Really? I keep reading on here that the PSTV's upscaling of PSP games is kinda poor

And that the Sony TVs' upscaling is very nice. albeit not quite on the level of XRGB-3 and Framemeister


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Sony W6 series LCD review - 2013's best gaming TV
PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 1:56 am 


User avatar

Joined: 30 Apr 2012
Posts: 1694
Location: Kentucky
FinalBaton wrote:
bobrocks95 wrote:
The feature is cool to have, but my PSTV looks much better on my Sony than a PSP hooked up via component. There's now even an option to disable filtering on the vPSP mode, and it's the sharpest I've seen the console on a display.

Really? I keep reading on here that the PSTV's upscaling of PSP games is kinda poor

And that the Sony TVs' upscaling is very nice. albeit not quite on the level of XRGB-3 and Framemeister


If you really hate aliasing I guess it looks good. It's very soft and smooth- the PSTV looks much sharper, especially with smoothing turned off. I forgot to clarify that the smoothing option is only in modded firmware, so not everybody will have access to it (though getting a PSTV with a low firmware version will cost you like $30 tops).


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Sony W6 series LCD review - 2013's best gaming TV
PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 2:27 am 



Joined: 11 Dec 2014
Posts: 258
bobrocks95 wrote:
FinalBaton wrote:
bobrocks95 wrote:
The feature is cool to have, but my PSTV looks much better on my Sony than a PSP hooked up via component. There's now even an option to disable filtering on the vPSP mode, and it's the sharpest I've seen the console on a display.

Really? I keep reading on here that the PSTV's upscaling of PSP games is kinda poor

And that the Sony TVs' upscaling is very nice. albeit not quite on the level of XRGB-3 and Framemeister


If you really hate aliasing I guess it looks good. It's very soft and smooth- the PSTV looks much sharper, especially with smoothing turned off. I forgot to clarify that the smoothing option is only in modded firmware, so not everybody will have access to it (though getting a PSTV with a low firmware version will cost you like $30 tops).

It doesn't even do a good job of masking any aliasing. It just looks like poop. The PSP I mean. The PSTV ehh, maybe as long as you aren't playing PS1 games. Or mind the double scaling. From whatever resolution>720p>TV resolution


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 812 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 24, 25, 26, 27, 28  Next

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: PeterWar and 18 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Space Pilot 3K template by Jakob Persson
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group