shmups.system11.org

Shmups Forum
 
* FAQ    * Search
 * Register  * Login 
It is currently Tue Apr 25, 2017 10:26 am View unanswered posts
View active topics



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 812 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ... 28  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Sony W6 series LCD review - 2013's best gaming TV
PostPosted: Wed Jan 01, 2014 9:37 am 


User avatar

Joined: 31 May 2010
Posts: 1316
Xyga wrote:
ryu wrote:
is there a vp that can convert a 60hz signal into a 120hz signal by doubling frames? can the sony tv sync 120hz sources? though i'd be surprised if the tv could actually do that...

The old Comm-Tec UP 1280 FD & FDHT models do framedoubling (50Hz>100Hz, 60Hz>120Hz) but the only video outputs are RGBHV and max output resolution is 720p.
Don't know if that could be of any use outside of a video projection setup though...

well the point is to try feeding at least 480p120 into the W6 to see if the tv can display that signal with the blacklight flickering at 120hz in strobing mode
_________________
Image
My scores - My collection


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Sony W6 series LCD review - 2013's best gaming TV
PostPosted: Wed Jan 01, 2014 9:44 am 


User avatar

Joined: 05 Nov 2013
Posts: 4696
Location: EU
ryu wrote:
Xyga wrote:
ryu wrote:
is there a vp that can convert a 60hz signal into a 120hz signal by doubling frames? can the sony tv sync 120hz sources? though i'd be surprised if the tv could actually do that...

The old Comm-Tec UP 1280 FD & FDHT models do framedoubling (50Hz>100Hz, 60Hz>120Hz) but the only video outputs are RGBHV and max output resolution is 720p.
Don't know if that could be of any use outside of a video projection setup though...

well the point is to try feeding at least 480p120 into the W6 to see if the tv can display that signal with the blacklight flickering at 120hz in strobing mode

I'll try this when I get my hands on a RGBHV>component transcoder.
...
Wait, can transcoders work with 120Hz ? And what about the W6's component input ?
_________________
Image


Top
 Online Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Sony W6 series LCD review - 2013's best gaming TV
PostPosted: Wed Jan 01, 2014 9:51 am 


User avatar

Joined: 31 May 2010
Posts: 1316
Xyga wrote:
I'll try this when I get my hands on a RGBHV>component transcoder.
...
Wait, can transcoders work with 120Hz ? And what about the W6's component input ?

i'm not sure the tv can work with 120hz signals at all, no matter the input. no idea if pure decoders can work with 120hz sources, but there should be at least some vps that should be able to do this.
_________________
Image
My scores - My collection


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Sony W6 series LCD review - 2013's best gaming TV
PostPosted: Wed Jan 01, 2014 11:54 am 


User avatar

Joined: 05 Nov 2013
Posts: 4696
Location: EU
A number of TVs can be forced to display higher refresh rates using some compatible gfx cards and a bit of tweaking, there's a number of topics and articles around like this one:
http://www.blurbusters.com/faq/120hz-pc-to-tv/
I'm having a hard time imagining how this could be done with 'just' external processors, converters or even if the stock W6's firmware would allow this in any form.
Forcing a faster strobing mode sounds even more fantasy.

Well maybe something can be done, but that's as far as my knowledges goes. I don't know shit. :lol:
_________________
Image


Top
 Online Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Sony W6 series LCD review - 2013's best gaming TV
PostPosted: Wed Jan 01, 2014 12:13 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 31 May 2010
Posts: 1316
that certainly implies that the sony won't work with 120hz sources out of the box
_________________
Image
My scores - My collection


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Sony W6 series LCD review - 2013's best gaming TV
PostPosted: Wed Jan 01, 2014 12:49 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 10300
Location: Germany
I don't see any chance for 120Hz on the non-3D W6 models. Possibly on the W68 50" model, since they have to accept 720p120 for 3D anyway. It's generally possible to use a 3D mode input for 2D sources with doubled framerate. It's just the question what the TV does and which features get disabled by default.

120Hz would be possibly on the HDMI input only. No way that the component input can handle that.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Sony W6 series LCD review - 2013's best gaming TV
PostPosted: Wed Jan 01, 2014 9:56 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 16 May 2008
Posts: 1497
Location: Denmark
Any chances that Sony could add 120Hz strobing to W9 models with a firmware update, since they are 240Hz?
_________________
My XRGB-Mini settings: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=33450&start=4040


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Sony W6 series LCD review - 2013's best gaming TV
PostPosted: Wed Jan 01, 2014 10:06 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 10300
Location: Germany
they don't care. And if they cared they would save it for a future generation. It's more than likely hard enough already for them to squeeze out SOME new features each generation :mrgreen:


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Sony W6 series LCD review - 2013's best gaming TV
PostPosted: Wed Jan 01, 2014 10:07 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 16 May 2008
Posts: 1497
Location: Denmark
That's a shame :/
_________________
My XRGB-Mini settings: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=33450&start=4040


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Sony W6 series LCD review - 2013's best gaming TV
PostPosted: Wed Jan 01, 2014 10:18 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 05 Nov 2013
Posts: 4696
Location: EU
And all that low-lag on the W series was probably accidental.
_________________
Image


Top
 Online Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Sony W6 series LCD review - 2013's best gaming TV
PostPosted: Wed Jan 01, 2014 11:42 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 10300
Location: Germany
It was likely a lucky coincidence with this year's choice of panels. I'm sure that Sony won't pay attention to it as long as next year's panels are in the 1-3 frame delay range.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Sony W6 series LCD review - 2013's best gaming TV
PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2014 3:17 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 12 Jul 2009
Posts: 2185
Location: St. Louis, MO USA
Well after looking them over with the family, going to be the 55" Sony I guess. We'll figure out a way to wall mount it.

I will say though, that the top Samsung did seem a bit better off-angle. I've just had terrible experiences with Samsung firmware.
_________________
Breaking news: Dodonpachi Developer Cave Releases Hello Kitty Game


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Sony W6 series LCD review - 2013's best gaming TV
PostPosted: Fri Jan 03, 2014 5:04 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 04 Sep 2008
Posts: 535
nice review, is it safe to assume that 3D models (KDL50W685ABAEP) have the same performance as 2D models (KDL50W656ASAEP) ?

just curious, how is the lag with Leo Lag Tester (Bottom, Middle and Top) ?

on my Samsung (UE50EH5300), I have 23ms (top) 31ms (middle) 38ms (bottom) and the scaling is good too.
_________________
XRGB & OSSC Wiki


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Sony W6 series LCD review - 2013's best gaming TV
PostPosted: Fri Jan 03, 2014 5:23 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 10300
Location: Germany
Quote:
just curious, how is the lag with Leo Lag Tester (Bottom, Middle and Top) ?

I did hundreds of readings in all modes, but to give a baseline: 8, 15, 22ms

And yes, the 50" 3D model is just as good.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Sony W6 series LCD review - 2013's best gaming TV
PostPosted: Fri Jan 03, 2014 5:55 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 04 Sep 2008
Posts: 535
very good, thanks !
_________________
XRGB & OSSC Wiki


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Sony W6 series LCD review - 2013's best gaming TV
PostPosted: Sat Jan 04, 2014 2:01 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 05 Nov 2013
Posts: 4696
Location: EU
Hey Fudoh, could you please develop the part about using RGBHV > component transcoders ?
Quote:
Kramer Israel, Audio Authority or Crescendo Systems

Which ones would you recomment for connecting XRGB-2 & 3 to the W6 ?
_________________
Image


Top
 Online Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Sony W6 series LCD review - 2013's best gaming TV
PostPosted: Sat Jan 04, 2014 2:17 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 10300
Location: Germany
Since you're looking to VGA to component and not component to VGA there aren't too much models. Hands down the best and most versatile transcoder is the Kramer FC-14. The Crescendo systems one should be nice (I have the YUV2VGA version), but next to impossible to find 2nd hand. Cheapest (at least sometimes) is the AA. Since you only need transcoding for 31khz quality isn't an issue. They're all great with 480p/576p. If you find any others, feel free to check back with me.

Especially with the XRGB units I found VGA to HDMI converters to be quite alright as well. They're cheaper, easier to get and the 720/640 pixel width issue is hardly a problem, especially since all VGA inputs on LCD screen always had these issue. I used a number of VGA to HDMI converters with the XRGB-3 in B1 and it was flawless.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Sony W6 series LCD review - 2013's best gaming TV
PostPosted: Sat Jan 04, 2014 3:20 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 05 Nov 2013
Posts: 4696
Location: EU
Wow the Kramer FC-14 is damn expensive, I think I'll pass.
The Crescendo TC1600 and AA Model 9A60A even new are kind of affordable, don't know if they ship to Europe though.
I'll check the bay first.

Regarding the VGA>HDMI converters, if I read correctly they produce around 1 frame of lag... and that's no good for me.
Well I guess it's okay for games like RPGs, I'll try one some time. Any recommended brand ?

Thanks.
_________________
Image


Top
 Online Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Sony W6 series LCD review - 2013's best gaming TV
PostPosted: Sat Jan 04, 2014 4:13 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 10300
Location: Germany
Quote:
Wow the Kramer FC-14 is damn expensive

I bought three of them recently :mrgreen: :mrgreen: About 25 EUR a piece, even here in Germany.

Quote:
Regarding the VGA>HDMI converters, if I read correctly they produce around 1 frame of lag...

no, that's the Gefen VGA to HDMI/DVI scaler. Those 35 EUR converters don't add any lag.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Sony W6 series LCD review - 2013's best gaming TV
PostPosted: Sat Jan 04, 2014 6:15 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 05 Nov 2013
Posts: 4696
Location: EU
GREAT news ! :D

Going back to the W6's settings I was playing some old PS1 DOOM, and I have to say in very dark places it gets so dark I can't see shit and the way such dark scenes are handled by the set is kind of a disappointment.
The screen glows almost as badly as an IPS.
No settings made a real difference except pushing brightness to uunreasonable levels.
_________________
Image


Top
 Online Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Sony W6 series LCD review - 2013's best gaming TV
PostPosted: Sat Jan 04, 2014 6:19 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 10300
Location: Germany
All you can do on dark games like that is to max out the backlight and set the gamma to +2/max. Increasing actual brightness is besides the point. Experienced the same with Doom on the N64 recently - couldn't see shit....


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Sony W6 series LCD review - 2013's best gaming TV
PostPosted: Sat Jan 04, 2014 6:28 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 05 Nov 2013
Posts: 4696
Location: EU
I was expecting better handling of dark scenes with an MVA panel, strange how technology 'evolves'.
Before the W6 I bought an LG 39LN5400 (LN5300/LN540/etc) which is said to have direct-led backlighting... but it arrived broken and I had to return it.
Couldn't even check if it was IPS or MVA, but would that type of backlighting have handled dark scenes better whatever the panel type ?
_________________
Image


Top
 Online Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Sony W6 series LCD review - 2013's best gaming TV
PostPosted: Sat Jan 04, 2014 6:49 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 31 May 2010
Posts: 1316
what exactly is the problem of the W6 in regard to dark scenes?

on my nec with an s-pva panel i can play even the darkest games at brightness -1, 2.4 gamma and the backlight set to 0% without having any issues (putting aside that black is merely dark grey on dark scenes)
_________________
Image
My scores - My collection


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Sony W6 series LCD review - 2013's best gaming TV
PostPosted: Sat Jan 04, 2014 7:26 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 10300
Location: Germany
It's not the panels' fault. Some games are just to dark, ESPECIALLY on calibrated displays. Even back in the early 90s with Doom I had to drastically utilize the game's gamma function.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Sony W6 series LCD review - 2013's best gaming TV
PostPosted: Sat Jan 04, 2014 7:33 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 31 May 2010
Posts: 1316
oh, alright. that had me worried for a sec. guess i've never played a "truely dark" game then :lol:
_________________
Image
My scores - My collection


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Sony W6 series LCD review - 2013's best gaming TV
PostPosted: Sat Jan 04, 2014 7:33 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 05 Nov 2013
Posts: 4696
Location: EU
This is kind of puzzling because it's better on my old LG LD450 (IPS).

Just a moment ago I left he Game scene mode and tried the other ones, just a wild ride, and foud that General>Vivid was the brightest one and things sohow got visible again.
But this mode destroys the picture and genarates lots of lag.
_________________
Image


Top
 Online Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Sony W6 series LCD review - 2013's best gaming TV
PostPosted: Sat Jan 04, 2014 7:37 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 10300
Location: Germany
Quote:
This is kind of puzzling because it's better on my old LG LD450 (IPS).

same problem as comparing cinema to home plasmas. In the cinema you got a certain brightness offset (= poor blacks) and every IRE step up from that is even brighter. On a display with good blacks (W6), or very good blacks (Plasma) or perfect blacks (OLED) you still have to respect the same gamma curve and this means that everything you see so clearly in the cinema (or at home on a IPS panel) is still way to dark on your "dark" panel. There is no proper way around that, unless you completely alter the gamma curve (which you cannot on the Sony).


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Sony W6 series LCD review - 2013's best gaming TV
PostPosted: Sat Jan 04, 2014 7:46 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 05 Nov 2013
Posts: 4696
Location: EU
Makes sense, never thought about it this way.
_________________
Image


Top
 Online Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Sony W6 series LCD review - 2013's best gaming TV
PostPosted: Sun Jan 05, 2014 1:08 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 05 Nov 2013
Posts: 4696
Location: EU
Double posting but for a good reason:
Just wanted to say that following your explanation I have applied a bit of gamma correction from my VP30, which completely fixed issue (at least for my retrogaming setup xrgb2+vp30).
There aren't many steps so it is not perfect, I wisht there was a 1.15 setting.

Too bad the W6 can't apply gamma correction directly to the inputs, I guess external processors will always be useful.
The DVDO saved me so many times I cannot live without it now, only annoying thins is that I still got big timing issues losing picture etc, must be because this processor is too old... or because most tv's digital inputs are crap.
_________________
Image


Top
 Online Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Sony W6 series LCD review - 2013's best gaming TV
PostPosted: Sun Jan 05, 2014 1:39 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 10300
Location: Germany
Sony is the last of the big TV manufacturers that hasn't implemented at least a 10-point gamma control yet. Every year I hope for it.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 812 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ... 28  Next

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: donluca, Google [Bot], MSNbot Media and 7 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Space Pilot 3K template by Jakob Persson
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group