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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 4:36 pm 



Joined: 23 Jul 2014
Posts: 28
anyone know if RF still works with the NESRGB board? and if so do the palettes work as well through RF? I am thinking of hooking my nes through RGB to a monitor and an old CRT TV using RF. Thanks!


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 7:30 pm 


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It does not. RF won't work unless you shut off the NESRGB, basically the same situation as the NES' built-in composite video: it doesn't work while the NESRGB is active. That said, the NESRGB provides its own composite video output. No RF though.


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2017 12:38 am 



Joined: 27 Nov 2014
Posts: 116
Location: Hellhole
tacoboy42 wrote:
anyone know if RF still works with the NESRGB board? and if so do the palettes work as well through RF? I am thinking of hooking my nes through RGB to a monitor and an old CRT TV using RF. Thanks!

I think it will work if you use this RF box:
Image


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Thu Mar 09, 2017 1:15 pm 



Joined: 09 Mar 2017
Posts: 1
i have a few questions in regards to ^
i used to think the 4th mode is to turn off the rgb board, so you could enjoy the av out and rf as supposed to.
if thats not the case, what exactly does the 4th mode?
does the av out work at all with nesrgb on/installed and how much does the composite signal differ from the original?


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 7:44 pm 



Joined: 06 Apr 2017
Posts: 1
Guspaz wrote:
It does not. RF won't work unless you shut off the NESRGB, basically the same situation as the NES' built-in composite video: it doesn't work while the NESRGB is active. That said, the NESRGB provides its own composite video output. No RF though.


The NES' built in composite won't work at all, or it'll only work "weird-ish" ?

The reason I ask is this.

The NESRGB on my frontloader seems to work fine via RGB-Scart, at least that's what I thought.

But here's where it gets weird. Once I connect a cable to the built-in composite's video (while still being in RGB of course),
the NESRGB's reds are boosted quite a lot.
I only found out about this by accident, and now I'm not sure if the reds are supposed to
be this saturated in the first place ? Or if this behaviour is normal and I just just ignore it
by simply not connecting anything to the built-in composite ?

On the other hand, the built-in composite is still working, albeit only in B/W.


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2017 9:27 pm 



Joined: 09 May 2015
Posts: 2
I have a problem with an AV famicom (nes japanese model) with NESRGB mod installed. I have done a lot of research but I can't find nothing...Shmups forum is my last hope...

I recorded this video where i show blinking pixels. I hook AV Famicom to a BVM 20F1E (Av Out>Scart Male>Scart Female>BNC>BVM)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TyH6zB4O7GY

It happens no matter any game I try. ¿Maybe is the cable? ¿Which cable do I need to buy? I'm thinking buying a SNES NTSC RGB cable from retrogammingcables but I'm not sure this can fix the problem. Video is wired to AV Out of the console. ¿Someone with similar problem can help?.

Thanks in advance!


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Tue May 02, 2017 10:57 am 



Joined: 07 Aug 2006
Posts: 418
Location: Sydney, Australia
heimdalr wrote:
i have a few questions in regards to ^
i used to think the 4th mode is to turn off the rgb board, so you could enjoy the av out and rf as supposed to.
if thats not the case, what exactly does the 4th mode?
does the av out work at all with nesrgb on/installed and how much does the composite signal differ from the original?


That's correct. The if by '4th mode' you mean no palette selected. Then the NESRGB is off and the NES console should work just like one with out the NESRGB installed. The original video and RF will work in this mode.

Dude80 wrote:
The NESRGB on my frontloader seems to work fine via RGB-Scart, at least that's what I thought.

But here's where it gets weird. Once I connect a cable to the built-in composite's video (while still being in RGB of course),
the NESRGB's reds are boosted quite a lot.
I only found out about this by accident, and now I'm not sure if the reds are supposed to
be this saturated in the first place ? Or if this behaviour is normal and I just just ignore it
by simply not connecting anything to the built-in composite ?

On the other hand, the built-in composite is still working, albeit only in B/W.


The NES colour palette does not contain many shades of red, so it's not used as often as blue/green colours in most games.

You problem is an unusual one. Have you tried to compare the NESRGB's RGB output to it's composite video output (V) ?


roquer.jordi wrote:
I have a problem with an AV famicom (nes japanese model) with NESRGB mod installed. I have done a lot of research but I can't find nothing...Shmups forum is my last hope...

I recorded this video where i show blinking pixels. I hook AV Famicom to a BVM 20F1E (Av Out>Scart Male>Scart Female>BNC>BVM)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TyH6zB4O7GY

It happens no matter any game I try. ¿Maybe is the cable? ¿Which cable do I need to buy? I'm thinking buying a SNES NTSC RGB cable from retrogammingcables but I'm not sure this can fix the problem. Video is wired to AV Out of the console. ¿Someone with similar problem can help?.

Thanks in advance!


I know this one. The problem is caused by noise on the power supply that gets into the PPU's video output signal. Perhaps the electrical noise is from a third party power supply or flash cartridge, or maybe you are just unlucky.

The noise gets coupled into the video signal through the original video driving transistor. That is the transistor on the motherboard connected to PPU pin 21. Find the transistor and remove it. Then connect a wire between CS# (or V, or Y) on the NESRGB to pin 9 in the AV port so your monitor can get a useful sync signal again.


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2017 3:00 am 


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Location: DFW area, Texas
viletim wrote:

Dude80 wrote:
The NESRGB on my frontloader seems to work fine via RGB-Scart, at least that's what I thought.

But here's where it gets weird. Once I connect a cable to the built-in composite's video (while still being in RGB of course),
the NESRGB's reds are boosted quite a lot.
I only found out about this by accident, and now I'm not sure if the reds are supposed to
be this saturated in the first place ? Or if this behaviour is normal and I just just ignore it
by simply not connecting anything to the built-in composite ?

On the other hand, the built-in composite is still working, albeit only in B/W.


The NES colour palette does not contain many shades of red, so it's not used as often as blue/green colours in most games.

You problem is an unusual one. Have you tried to compare the NESRGB's RGB output to it's composite video output (V) ?




I think he's saying that he found a weird quirk that he could 'boost' the red by jacking into the RCA jack while hooked up in RGB. Since we're not supposed to hook anything into that jack with this mod in active RGB, it's likely an unintended effect.
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SNES Serial DB: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1HYLy_TTDop_FzuX6qnxuQI43upg4raXfno582taO744/pubhtml


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Tue May 16, 2017 1:36 am 



Joined: 23 Dec 2015
Posts: 157
I'm getting audio popping/crackling from music with a lot of bass out of my RGB modded front loader. It's especially noticeable in Mega Man games. Do I need a higher quality cable? What could be the cause?


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Mon May 29, 2017 9:44 am 



Joined: 04 Nov 2015
Posts: 3
Quick question... It's 2017... I've got an xrgb mini... Do I go with a NESRGB or Hidef NES (hdmi) mod?

Mainly play retro stuff at 720p as scanlines look nicer...


Thoughts? :-)


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Sun Jun 04, 2017 3:39 am 



Joined: 02 Jan 2016
Posts: 30
How often are these kits restocked?


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Sun Jun 04, 2017 3:43 am 



Joined: 13 Mar 2011
Posts: 887
Location: Toronto, Canada
KRiSX wrote:
Quick question... It's 2017... I've got an xrgb mini... Do I go with a NESRGB or Hidef NES (hdmi) mod?

Mainly play retro stuff at 720p as scanlines look nicer...


Thoughts? :-)


I got both and xrgb mini.

The hi def nes kit is sharper because it's all digital right from the source.

The NESRGB is more versitile. It will also play on your PVM, S-video, component.

So it all depends on your setup and how you want to use it. Can't go wrong with either.


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Sun Jun 04, 2017 3:06 pm 


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Location: DFW area, Texas
leonk wrote:
KRiSX wrote:
Quick question... It's 2017... I've got an xrgb mini... Do I go with a NESRGB or Hidef NES (hdmi) mod?

Mainly play retro stuff at 720p as scanlines look nicer...


Thoughts? :-)


I got both and xrgb mini.

The hi def nes kit is sharper because it's all digital right from the source.

The NESRGB is more versitile. It will also play on your PVM, S-video, component.

So it all depends on your setup and how you want to use it. Can't go wrong with either.


If money is no object, you can't beat the Analogue Nt mini. It has several hookup types: composite, S-video, RGB, and HDMI. So whether you want to play on a CRT or HDTV, it's got both covered. It also has full support for 720 or 1080 and can even do 5x scales in 1080. Lastly, it has an SD card slot for custom palettes and ROMs if that's your thing.
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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Sun Jun 04, 2017 6:39 pm 


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Posts: 769
Location: San Jose, CA
FBX wrote:
leonk wrote:
KRiSX wrote:
Quick question... It's 2017... I've got an xrgb mini... Do I go with a NESRGB or Hidef NES (hdmi) mod?

Mainly play retro stuff at 720p as scanlines look nicer...


Thoughts? :-)


I got both and xrgb mini.

The hi def nes kit is sharper because it's all digital right from the source.

The NESRGB is more versitile. It will also play on your PVM, S-video, component.

So it all depends on your setup and how you want to use it. Can't go wrong with either.


If money is no object, you can't beat the Analogue Nt mini. It has several hookup types: composite, S-video, RGB, and HDMI. So whether you want to play on a CRT or HDTV, it's got both covered. It also has full support for 720 or 1080 and can even do 5x scales in 1080. Lastly, it has an SD card slot for custom palettes and ROMs if that's your thing.

And if you put jailbroken firmware on it, you can also play games from various other consoles (Atari 2600, 7800, ColecoVision, SMS, Game Gear, Game Boy/Color).


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Mon Jun 05, 2017 4:11 pm 



Joined: 13 Mar 2011
Posts: 887
Location: Toronto, Canada
Not to go too far off topic, but I'm not a fan of FPGA based consoles. As much as the developer would want you to think that all games work identical to the original, users always find a game that doesn't and then hope that the developer fixes the bugs.

I think Kevtris is a very busy person. It seems that he has all the good intensions to support a product, but something always comes up which ends leaving a product as "almost done" but not. Some examples that come to mind:

- Hi def NES: CopyNES support. Pads are there. But will probably never happen. Look at how long it took for FBX palette to come out!
- Analogue NT mini - jailbroken firmware (the zimba 3000?). He was putting out almost weekly updates and then .. nothing. And the ones that came out, have bugs.

I guess this is the major flaw with closed source / single developer. This is why I'm glad that Tim W put out his N64RGB source code and folks like Borti improved upon it.


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Mon Jun 05, 2017 4:43 pm 


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I think that's more a limitation of an unofficial unsupported firmware than FPGA consoles in general: if a bug was found in the official NES firmware, it'd likely get fixed, because the users paid for the console to do that, and Analogue paid Kevin to implement that. It's when you get into the best-effort side stuff that you start to run into issues.


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Thu Jun 08, 2017 8:16 am 



Joined: 02 Jan 2016
Posts: 30
So I just had my first go at removing the NES PPU and it was mostly successful. Unfortunately on one pin the copper pads came off on both the top and bottom side of the board though the via is still in there. For whatever reason I had more trouble with this pin than I did with the ones connected to the ground plane. I was wondering if anyone could help me out on how to go about fixing this? I'm not sure how to follow the trace since its path is blocked by that port.

Image

Image


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Thu Jun 08, 2017 2:53 pm 



Joined: 13 Mar 2011
Posts: 887
Location: Toronto, Canada
You see the copper wire that's left? Scrape it with an exacto knife until the copper is visible. Then use a voltmeter to find out where it connects. You can run a new botch wire from the underside.

According to Wiki, that is the CPU D1 connection. Very important. :)


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Thu Jun 08, 2017 7:57 pm 


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Posts: 22
shartqueefa wrote:
So I just had my first go at removing the NES PPU and it was mostly successful. Unfortunately on one pin the copper pads came off on both the top and bottom side of the board though the via is still in there. For whatever reason I had more trouble with this pin than I did with the ones connected to the ground plane. I was wondering if anyone could help me out on how to go about fixing this? I'm not sure how to follow the trace since its path is blocked by that port.


Your missing pad is connect to pin31 of the expansion connector, which is also connect to the via indicated below. There should be a number 1 label above it.

Image


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Thu Jun 08, 2017 9:43 pm 



Joined: 02 Jan 2016
Posts: 30
Thank you both very much


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Sat Jun 17, 2017 2:19 pm 



Joined: 17 Jun 2017
Posts: 2
Edit: OK, so I'm a dunce, and that connection from Pin 9 to the NESRGB is all that's required. I had screwed up the mapper files I was using on my EDN8 to test with, and assumed since I hadn't requested the expansion audio connection when I had the NESRGB installed that it wasn't done and that's why it wasn't working. Kudos to Retrofixes :)

Hi everyone,

First just a thank you for all the valuable information in this thread. It's helped me understand enough to ask the right question:

I have a front-loader NES with the NESRGB (v1.4) professionally installed. I'm interested in enabling expansion audio. After reading through this thread, the NESRGB installation page, and examining my NES, I see that audio is being taken from CPU pins 1 & 2 to the NESRGB board.

I see the circuit diagram in this post:
viewtopic.php?p=1115605#p1115605

But I'm a big noob and don't completely understand what I'm looking at. I see on my NES that pin 9 on the expansion connector is being pulled to the NESRGB board to a spot near J5. There is a resistor on the end where it's soldered to the NESRGB board (I forgot to see what it was rated, my fault), so is this potentially a partial install of the described circuit? I'm not clear on what TP1 is, but if it is expansion pin 3, would I just bridge 3 and 9 as normal at this stage (I planned to use a 100K pot instead of fixed resistor, before I opened it up and educated myself on the NESRGB installation)? Unfortunately any relevant pictures that people have posted over time all seem to be offline so I'm not sure how to proceed.

If I'm leaving out any necessary info or not asking the correct questions, please let me know!

Thank you!


Last edited by rotational on Tue Jun 20, 2017 3:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 12:05 am 



Joined: 04 Nov 2015
Posts: 3
FBX wrote:
leonk wrote:
KRiSX wrote:
Quick question... It's 2017... I've got an xrgb mini... Do I go with a NESRGB or Hidef NES (hdmi) mod?

Mainly play retro stuff at 720p as scanlines look nicer...


Thoughts? :-)


I got both and xrgb mini.

The hi def nes kit is sharper because it's all digital right from the source.

The NESRGB is more versitile. It will also play on your PVM, S-video, component.

So it all depends on your setup and how you want to use it. Can't go wrong with either.


If money is no object, you can't beat the Analogue Nt mini. It has several hookup types: composite, S-video, RGB, and HDMI. So whether you want to play on a CRT or HDTV, it's got both covered. It also has full support for 720 or 1080 and can even do 5x scales in 1080. Lastly, it has an SD card slot for custom palettes and ROMs if that's your thing.


after posting this i actually had one on order... but have since cancelled... why? well its $770AUD shipped for me... so its an insane amount of money for the use it would have gotten... I can spend under half that and get my NES RGB modded or a little less than half to go the Hi Def NES route... the jailbroken firmware was almost enough for me to stay with it, but I've already got the other systems it plays covered (the ones I'm interested in anyway)...

another option is of course the AVS, which falls somewhere between the NESRGB and Hi Def NES mods pricing wise (not including what I paid for the original NES console)

I use an everdrive on all my systems that support it, so that was another why bother for the NT mini, despite how awesome it is

I'm fairly certain price wise from cheapest to most expensive it goes... NESRGB, AVS, Hi Def NES, NT Mini... for me in Australia and requiring a someone to install the mods for me... like I said I'm on an xrgb and I've also got a gscartsw with another on the way... my gut is telling me NESRGB is the way to go, I just wanted the opinion of others to see if I'm wrong or not... right now its a close call between NESRGB and the AVS for me... Hi Def NES will run me over $400AUD (shipping takes up a fair bit of this)

argh its doing my head in... I just want some good looking NES gameplay as I'm sick of composite! haha


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 2:06 am 


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Consider also the Nt mini firmwares by Kevtris open up something like a dozen different 8-bit systems, so it becomes worthwhile for that alone.
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SNES Serial DB: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1HYLy_TTDop_FzuX6qnxuQI43upg4raXfno582taO744/pubhtml


Last edited by FBX on Tue Jun 20, 2017 6:51 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 6:41 am 


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Posts: 1795
Location: Kentucky
FBX wrote:
Consider also the Nt mini firmwares by Kevtris open op something like a dozen different 8-bit systems, so it becomes worthwhile for that alone.


You missed one line though:

Quote:
the jailbroken firmware was almost enough for me to stay with it, but I've already got the other systems it plays covered (the ones I'm interested in anyway)...


If the other cores don't interest you, I think it's a really tough pill to swallow and the AVS is a better option for that demographic.


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 6:51 am 


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bobrocks95 wrote:
FBX wrote:
Consider also the Nt mini firmwares by Kevtris open up something like a dozen different 8-bit systems, so it becomes worthwhile for that alone.


You missed one line though:

Quote:
the jailbroken firmware was almost enough for me to stay with it, but I've already got the other systems it plays covered (the ones I'm interested in anyway)...




Ah you're right. I just wanted to makes sure all options are laid out because so many people freak out over the price, while not appreciating all that Nt mini has to offer. "Why wouldn't I just get the much cheaper AVS?" for example, misses the full scope of what you get versus what you don't get with each system. After having tested an Nt mini myself, nothing else comes close to it for NES gaming on modern displays AND CRTs.
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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 4:03 pm 



Joined: 10 Mar 2014
Posts: 109
Location: Toronto, Canada
FBX wrote:
bobrocks95 wrote:
FBX wrote:
Consider also the Nt mini firmwares by Kevtris open up something like a dozen different 8-bit systems, so it becomes worthwhile for that alone.


You missed one line though:

Quote:
the jailbroken firmware was almost enough for me to stay with it, but I've already got the other systems it plays covered (the ones I'm interested in anyway)...




...After having tested an Nt mini myself, nothing else comes close to it for NES gaming on modern displays AND CRTs.


The only major reason that I prefer to use Tim's RGB kit on real hardware, is that the expansion audio emulation is not %100 accurate. Even when using real carts (Akumajou Densetsu, for example), the expansion audio sounds a little off. This is demonstrated in the My Life in Gaming Youtube video review of the Nt Mini. That alone is enough to disinterest me from that product, and to stick with the OG hardware + Tim's RGB kit.


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 4:30 pm 


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The NT Mini supports expansion audio off the cart. If you don't want inaccurate emulated expansion audio, then just use the real famicom cart. You'd need the real cart to get accurate expansion audio with the NESRGB anyhow.


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 6:15 pm 



Joined: 10 Mar 2014
Posts: 109
Location: Toronto, Canada
Guspaz wrote:
The NT Mini supports expansion audio off the cart. If you don't want inaccurate emulated expansion audio, then just use the real famicom cart. You'd need the real cart to get accurate expansion audio with the NESRGB anyhow.


As I mentioned in my post, according to the MLIG video, it seems that the NT Mini hardware itself is not producing sound "accurate" to original hardware, even when using real carts: https://youtu.be/uMwBxL5ZlGw?t=1277

I can hear the difference, and don't think it's an unreasonable assumption that the NT Mini may not also produce identical expansion audio to original hardware, if compared in a head to head.


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 7:56 pm 


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The_Atomik_Punk! wrote:
and don't think it's an unreasonable assumption that the NT Mini may not also produce identical expansion audio to original hardware, if compared in a head to head.

Its emulation is a little off, but what Guspaz was saying is that the Nt mini actually mixes in the expansion audio coming from the cart itself if you don't want emulation. That's even shown in the MLiG video.


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 8:29 pm 


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Yes. You've basically got three choices when it comes to expansion audio:

1) Pull it off a real famicom cart
2) Emulate it on the flash cart (like an Everdrive)
3) Emulate it on the console (like an NT Mini)

An OEM NES and the RetroUSB AVS can only use the first two options. The Analog NT Mini can use all three options. In all cases, however, you can just use the original hardware for the expansion audio that is on the famicom cartridge, like from the VRC7 cart for Lagrange Point.


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