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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2016 6:15 pm 



Joined: 04 Sep 2010
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I find heat to be an important factor during desoldering. Just crank that soldering iron up as high as it will go.


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2016 6:33 pm 



Joined: 29 Apr 2016
Posts: 80
Time for me to eat some crow. The noise I've been seeing from my RGB modded NES is, in fact, the XRGB Mini Noise Issue. I had seen this issue mentioned, but I just didn't make the connection until yesterday. I've confirmed that I can see the same noise in my SNES through the XRGB-Mini as well.

So to clarify for the record, there is nothing wrong with the RGB output of Yurkie's modded NES. He did good work, and my problem was entirely due to the XRGB-Mini.


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2016 7:29 pm 


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copy wrote:
Time for me to eat some crow. The noise I've been seeing from my RGB modded NES is, in fact, the XRGB Mini Noise Issue. I had seen this issue mentioned, but I just didn't make the connection until yesterday. I've confirmed that I can see the same noise in my SNES through the XRGB-Mini as well.

So to clarify for the record, there is nothing wrong with the RGB output of Yurkie's modded NES. He did good work, and my problem was entirely due to the XRGB-Mini.


I've also got a yurkie NES, and I've been quite happy with it.

But anyway, speaking of the Framemeister noise, I made an image capture where I assigned random grey scale to the noise versus the base green shade fed to it. In this particular case, it really demonstrates just how bad the noise can get:

Image
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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2016 9:11 pm 



Joined: 29 Apr 2016
Posts: 80
Oh wow, that does look bad. I first noticed it in the day sky of Super Mario Bros. Now that I at least understand what's happening, I should be able to overlook it and enjoy the games. Thankfully it is not too visible most of the time.


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2016 9:30 pm 



Joined: 06 Oct 2012
Posts: 920
Exactly why i stopped using that cheap solder sucker. with the fr-300 the ppu almost falls out when you are done.


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2016 9:42 pm 


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FBX wrote:
But anyway, speaking of the Framemeister noise


What a coincidence! I had actually shared some capture image diffs with retrorgb using an app I whipped up earlier this week!

http://imgur.com/a/vTVR8

If you create a new image using the difference between pixels, you can extract the noise pattern, and any static imagery captured with a capture card will do, not just a solid color.

copy wrote:
So to clarify for the record, there is nothing wrong with the RGB output of Yurkie's modded NES. He did good work, and my problem was entirely due to the XRGB-Mini.


The lack of picture noise is one reason why a Hi-Def NES is perfect (for the most part :)) for playing on flat panels. Then again, the OSSC can output a sharper and cleaner image than the mini in some scenarios. The NESRGB is still the de facto way to play on a CRT and the like!


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2016 10:03 pm 



Joined: 07 Dec 2014
Posts: 101
RGB32E wrote:
FBX wrote:
But anyway, speaking of the Framemeister noise


What a coincidence! I had actually shared some capture image diffs with retrorgb using an app I whipped up earlier this week!

http://imgur.com/a/vTVR8

If you create a new image using the difference between pixels, you can extract the noise pattern, and any static imagery captured with a capture card will do, not just a solid color.

copy wrote:
So to clarify for the record, there is nothing wrong with the RGB output of Yurkie's modded NES. He did good work, and my problem was entirely due to the XRGB-Mini.


The lack of picture noise is one reason why a Hi-Def NES is perfect (for the most part :)) for playing on flat panels. The NESRGB is still the de facto way to play on a CRT and the like!

NESRGB still has a lot going for it. I'd still stick with NESRGB over the Hi-Def NES mod. Two main reasons I went with NESRGB instead of waiting for the HDMI NES is it's not a destructive mod and all my other consoles are using RGB.

I do agree that the Hi-Def NES cuts down the quirks of using these old systems on modern displays.

Not saying a lot of work didn't go into the Hi-Def NES because it certainly did. It seems like the installation of it was an afterthought. Hopefully in the future it'll have a better installation option.


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Sat Jul 09, 2016 12:18 am 


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I'm not sure I follow, the hi-def NES is no more destructive to install than the NESRGB, both involve cutting holes in the chassis, both involve desoldering chips...


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Sat Jul 09, 2016 12:50 am 



Joined: 07 Dec 2014
Posts: 101
Guspaz wrote:
I'm not sure I follow, the hi-def NES is no more destructive to install than the NESRGB, both involve cutting holes in the chassis, both involve desoldering chips...

Don't need to drill any holes. That's just if you want to use the pallet switch it comes with.


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Sat Jul 09, 2016 1:12 am 


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How are you getting video out of the NES without drilling or cutting any holes? The only way I could see to avoid that would be to try to use one of the existing holes, which would involve significantly modifying or replacing the RF box, which is way more destructive than drilling holes. Admittedly a much cleaner look from the outside, though.


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Sat Jul 09, 2016 1:24 am 



Joined: 07 Dec 2014
Posts: 101
Guspaz wrote:
How are you getting video out of the NES without drilling or cutting any holes? The only way I could see to avoid that would be to try to use one of the existing holes, which would involve significantly modifying or replacing the RF box, which is way more destructive than drilling holes. Admittedly a much cleaner look from the outside, though.

I use an AV Famicom. Nothing needed to be removed or destroyed. I did try to replace the 7805 with a switching regulator but it didn't work out for me.

The Top Loaders have those 3d printed back panels also. The front loaders and original Famicom need to have holes drilled and/or RF outs removed.


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Sat Jul 09, 2016 5:35 am 


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Sure, in your specific case, I'll definitely agree that the AV famicom can be modded with the NESRGB with no destructive/permanent changes other than some soldering that could later be reversed. However, that's a rather specific case: there are a much smaller number of toploaders out there relative to frontloaders, and probably only a tiny number of AV famicoms in North America. They sold 34 million consoles in North America, and I doubt that the number of AV famicoms that got imported is more than a few thousand. In other words, the overwhelming majority of consoles floating around in North America would require destructive modification to mod in either case.

The 3D-printed back panel certainly makes for a much cleaner look (and if I had a toploader, I would have opted for that without a doubt, even if I didn't opt for the 3D printed option for my frontloader), but that too is a destructive mod since you've got to pull parts out of the console to make it fit. I suppose you could theoretically reverse that by removing the 3D printed back panel and re-soldering in the original ports, but that's stretching it a bit. Of course, it's also very tempting, to buy a toploader and RGB mod it... It'd give me an excuse to do another install, and apply all that I learned from the first time...


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Sat Jul 09, 2016 8:12 am 



Joined: 07 Dec 2014
Posts: 101
True about the front loaders. Either mod is destructive if you want to use a front loader.

Guspaz wrote:
it's also very tempting, to buy a toploader and RGB mod it... It'd give me an excuse to do another install, and apply all that I learned from the first time...

I enjoyed installing the NESRGB. I had almost no issues from the install to updating it that involved the actual NESRGB parts. Who ever handled the board layout of the NESRGB did a great job. The Hi-Def NES seems to be really not well thought out in that area. I admit I haven't installed one but the video from gametechus of the installation doesn't inspire confidence. Nothing against Jason he has been nothing but helpful to me in the past. Answered my emails in like 15mins. It's the Hi-Def NES.

The flex cables are just smashed in to fit. Which works but cmon...
Seems like another issue was placement of the board so the HDMI female socket would make clearance. I'm assuming I'm ignorant but why not just use a male to female HDMI cord with a panel mount or just let the female HDMI plug hang outside the console?
The power and ground connection are pretty botched too.


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Sat Jul 09, 2016 4:32 pm 


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Edward_Tz wrote:
The Top Loaders have those 3d printed back panels also. The front loaders and original Famicom need to have holes drilled and/or RF outs removed.

The original Famicom actually doesn't need to have any holes drilled if you're using the power/AV board that Tim provides. Granted you have to do some very minor trimming to get the audio jack to fit but that's nothing compared to drilling holes.

The Twin Famicom is also a snap to mod because you can just reuse the 8-pin DIN jack that's normally used for the RF modulator, no case modding required.


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Sat Jul 09, 2016 5:19 pm 



Joined: 22 Oct 2013
Posts: 404
ApolloBoy wrote:
Edward_Tz wrote:
The Top Loaders have those 3d printed back panels also. The front loaders and original Famicom need to have holes drilled and/or RF outs removed.

The original Famicom actually doesn't need to have any holes drilled if you're using the power/AV board that Tim provides. Granted you have to do some very minor trimming to get the audio jack to fit but that's nothing compared to drilling holes.

The Twin Famicom is also a snap to mod because you can just reuse the 8-pin DIN jack that's normally used for the RF modulator, no case modding required.


And even then its not even trimming if you have the right tool and is super easy to do. I have a circular file that is the same diameter of the jack that I use. Takes about 4 runs across the plastic and its done. But yeah, super easy to do the Famicom.
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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Sun Jul 10, 2016 12:30 am 


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Please, for the Love of God..

Image

Don't use 2 part epoxy to secure your NESRGB PCB's. Just don't, it's never a good idea..

Image
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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Sun Jul 10, 2016 12:39 am 


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WTF is that? I can imagine putting a small spot of hot glue under the PCB on top of the expansion port if you wanted to hold it in place, because the hot glue could be very easily removed, but why the hell would somebody use epoxy for that?!?!


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Sun Jul 10, 2016 2:11 am 



Joined: 13 Mar 2011
Posts: 888
Location: Toronto, Canada
WOW. that's horrible. What are you doing to the AV famicom?

Also. Just because you got a 5V pad on the NESRGB, doesn't mean it's a good choice for LED, 5V multiAV pin, whatever you need 5V for. Learned this the hard way a long time ago. You will fry a transistor on the NESRGB. Get 5V from elsewhere!

Need to dig up the old email from Tim abou this. ;)


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Sun Jul 10, 2016 2:17 am 


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Location: USA
Fella wanted to swap his NESRGB installation with a Hi-Def kit, and migrate this board to another system.


Yeah, I've replaced a few SGM8051XN5 Op-Amps and 3.3V regulators next to J3 as a result of some hardcore stuff. ;)
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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Sun Jul 10, 2016 10:11 pm 



Joined: 06 Oct 2012
Posts: 920
Whenever i see epoxy it reminds me of those shitty blob chips in some nes cartridges.

I guess they didnt bother with the audio section, even though it sounds better than stock.

i like the way it sounds.

good spot to hold it though, i think im going to start using epoxy on my install. :p


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Mon Jul 11, 2016 3:15 am 



Joined: 13 Mar 2011
Posts: 888
Location: Toronto, Canada
mvsfan wrote:
Whenever i see epoxy it reminds me of those shitty blob chips in some nes cartridges.

I guess they didnt bother with the audio section, even though it sounds better than stock.

i like the way it sounds.

good spot to hold it though, i think im going to start using epoxy on my install. :p



bahahahahah.. Imagine one of those hot glue special consoles except it's all automotive grade epoxy / JB Weld!!! :shock: :shock: :shock:


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Mon Jul 11, 2016 3:25 am 


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Shhhhh don't give Drakon any ideas...


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2016 7:46 pm 


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Location: London, UK
Will you be getting more NESRGB kits in soon Tim?


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2016 2:29 am 



Joined: 22 Jul 2016
Posts: 5
I recently installed NESRGB alongside borti's NES-IO/NES-IGR board into my front-loading NES. Everything generally looks great--no audio noise, jailbars, etc.

However, my Everdrive N8 and the NESRGB somehow combine to cause short horizontal bars to appear on my display in certain games.

This is what it looks like:
Image

I read through most of the rest of this thread, and I thought it might be related to the Q1 transistor creating feedback on pin 21 of the PPU, but removing that transistor did not improve things. I've watched videos of that interference too, but it looks different than mine, and mine does not randomly appear.

These bars only appear in certain games, and with the exception of Metroid, only occur on particular screens. They show up on the title screens of Megaman 1 and Tetris, the pause screen in Kirby, and all throughout Metroid.

When I use real cartridges, these bars do not appear.

Anyone come across this before? Did I miss a post buried in the hundreds already here?


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2016 9:30 pm 


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Have you found out the problem? I'm interested in installing the IGR board as well but don't want glitching with the everdrive. I wonder if anyone else has had this problem?

splits wrote:
I recently installed NESRGB alongside borti's NES-IO/NES-IGR board into my front-loading NES. Everything generally looks great--no audio noise, jailbars, etc.

However, my Everdrive N8 and the NESRGB somehow combine to cause short horizontal bars to appear on my display in certain games.

This is what it looks like:
Image

I read through most of the rest of this thread, and I thought it might be related to the Q1 transistor creating feedback on pin 21 of the PPU, but removing that transistor did not improve things. I've watched videos of that interference too, but it looks different than mine, and mine does not randomly appear.

These bars only appear in certain games, and with the exception of Metroid, only occur on particular screens. They show up on the title screens of Megaman 1 and Tetris, the pause screen in Kirby, and all throughout Metroid.

When I use real cartridges, these bars do not appear.

Anyone come across this before? Did I miss a post buried in the hundreds already here?


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2016 3:25 am 



Joined: 22 Jul 2016
Posts: 5
No, the problem still persists.

I tried adding a 220 uF tantalum capacitor between the output of the NES-IO 5V regulator (as, IIRC, this operates somewhere between 300 and 400 kHz) and GND, as well as adding a 100 nF ceramic capacitor between pin 40 of the PPU on the NESRGB and GND, but it didn't make any difference. If the problem were with the switching regular, that cap should have killed the noise, so I am leaning towards this not being a NES-IO problem (that, taken with the fact that I have not experienced a problem with a single real cartridge).

I even completely redid my installation just in case I had a weak connection or the like somewhere.

I suppose next I will try powering the NESRGB with the linear regulator that it came with, beyond that, I'm not sure.

The noise seems to only appear on specific screens of certain games played via Everdrive N8. It does so with 100% consistency. Usually in solid colors.

In addition to the games above, it shows up on the boxing mat in Punch Out! (both versions), the scrolling secret cloud areas of SMB3 that are filled with coins, and Mother. Interestingly, although it shows up in Megaman 1, it does not show up in Rockman 1.

I would also be interested in knowing if other people with the NES-IO mod have experienced any Everdrive issues.


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2016 3:49 am 


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I don't have the IO; just the NESRGB board and the N8. I haven't noticed any garbage pixels like that, but I'll keep a look out for it on those games.
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NES NTSC Palettes: http://www.firebrandx.com/nespalette.html

SNES Serial DB: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1HYLy_TTDop_FzuX6qnxuQI43upg4raXfno582taO744/pubhtml


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Sat Aug 13, 2016 4:24 am 


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I'm getting my NES rgb modded with a multi out and I've purchased a few cables from the girl on eBay with good success. Trying to figure out what kind of Scart cable would work best? I've read on this thread that c sync is preferred and to make sure the audio is shielded, hoping someone can verify. Thanks


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Sat Aug 13, 2016 7:32 pm 



Joined: 10 Feb 2013
Posts: 29
Sorry I didn't read all 142 pages ,

just wanted to know the consensus on installing this RGB mod on a regular USA NES . Does it kick ass or is there some issues with it . Thanks ,

If theres no issues I'm gonna do it .


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Sat Aug 13, 2016 9:24 pm 


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Scumbum wrote:
Sorry I didn't read all 142 pages ,

just wanted to know the consensus on installing this RGB mod on a regular USA NES . Does it kick ass or is there some issues with it . Thanks ,

If theres no issues I'm gonna do it .


I have a regular USA NES (front-loader), with the board installed and SNES-style A/V out, and I've had zero problems with it. Short answer: Yes, it kicks ass.
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NES NTSC Palettes: http://www.firebrandx.com/nespalette.html

SNES Serial DB: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1HYLy_TTDop_FzuX6qnxuQI43upg4raXfno582taO744/pubhtml


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