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 Post subject: Sony Trinitron model numbers
PostPosted: Sun Sep 01, 2013 7:41 am 


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Hey guys, I know there are a million posts, sites, ect, on Sony Trinitron crt's. But what are the real differences (if any) of the model numbers. For example I have read that kv-xxfv300/310 is a great model for gaming, but what about kv-24fv10/16? I have also read that you want to look for the fv and not the fs model numbers. And then what about the older charcoal model crt's? Just wanted to get a discussion going about Sony Trinitrons.


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 Post subject: Re: Sony Trinitron model numbers
PostPosted: Mon Sep 02, 2013 7:53 am 


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Sadly, CRT TVs are pretty much hit or miss, Sony as well.

The differences between models can be sometimes marginal, additional inputs, PIP, additional speakers etc, but sadly the can often mean completely different electronics.

The two sets you mentioned have different types of chassis. The kv-24fv10 has the BA-4C chassis and the kv-xxfv300 a BA-5D. You could try to locate the service manuals for both of them to compare the two.

I personally dislike flatscreen TVs as they very often have geometry problems on the edges. They also are rarely consistently sharp, due to the very high defletion angle thanks to the flat tube. Also keep in mind that the chassis of both the TVs you posted are digital ones, meaning that you don't have analog potentiometers on the chassis for geometry adjustments and you have to do them in the service menu, which can be tedious if you change game systems very often. Putting an Extron RGB in between might help out in this case.

There is a general consensus that the late analog chassis of the Sony sets, especially the AE-1 models are highly desired. They seem to have the biggest game compatibility, as well as a lot of potentiometers for setting it up. You can read more about this particular model here: http://scarthunter.blogspot.pt/2012/03/its-bad-ass-sony.html

In fact i highly recommend reading the whole site, as it is highly informational: http://scarthunter.blogspot.pt/

Still, even if you find a TV with a fine chassis, the tube might still have burn-in or discolorations as well as other technical problems. So finding a certain model doesn't necessarily mean that you will be happy with the picture quality.

Also, keep in mind that as always, availlability is key. Sony sets are popular so a lot of people have access to them and hence recommend them. I have a 28" CRT made in Poland which imho, eats any Trinitron i ever had at home.

Sadly, you will have to buy at least a few CRT TVs before finding a model that you'll like.


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 Post subject: Re: Sony Trinitron model numbers
PostPosted: Mon Sep 02, 2013 6:23 pm 



Joined: 25 Mar 2009
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Instead of making a new topic I'll just ask here even though it pertains to US trinitrons. Does anyone know when Sony started putting component inputs on their TVs in the USA? Are there any models with the curved screen AND component?


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 Post subject: Re: Sony Trinitron model numbers
PostPosted: Mon Sep 02, 2013 9:06 pm 


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Yes as you said matrigs, I think I will have to get a few Trinitrons to see which I like. I will have to make a few hour drive to pick up some of the tv's. So I just want to be as knowledgeable as possible before going there. Cyborc poses a great question I was wondering as well.


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 Post subject: Re: Sony Trinitron model numbers
PostPosted: Mon Sep 02, 2013 9:21 pm 


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In Europe no Sony CRT had component connections. While the US models got component at some point, we got internal framedoubling (100Hz modes) instead. Only a few of the late FD Trinitrons had a VGA port.


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 Post subject: Re: Sony Trinitron model numbers
PostPosted: Mon Sep 02, 2013 9:55 pm 


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@ cyborc: KV-27V45 is a curved-screen Trinitron with examples built in mid- to late 1998. It only has S-Video.
The TV that recently got replaced here (a nice performer too, shame I couldn't keep it around) was a 50-inch flat screen Mitsubishi model from 1995 with component inputs.
My only other Trinitron currently is a 2006 model with the flat screen, which obviously has component (also some geometry issues I have to sort out from the service menu).


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 Post subject: Re: Sony Trinitron model numbers
PostPosted: Mon Sep 02, 2013 9:58 pm 


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Fudoh wrote:
In Europe no Sony CRT had component connections. While the US models got component at some point, we got internal framedoubling (100Hz modes) instead. Only a few of the late FD Trinitrons had a VGA port.


What is internal framedoubling? When did you guy's get RGB scart over there, and is considered better or equal to component?


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 Post subject: Re: Sony Trinitron model numbers
PostPosted: Mon Sep 02, 2013 10:21 pm 


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Quote:
What is internal framedoubling?

if you have a 31khz tube installed in a TV you can either do linedoubling (480i60 to 480p60) or you can do framedoubling (480i60 to 480i120). Since europe's 50Hz flicker more than 60Hz in NTSC countries in the mid 90s we got TVs that ran internally at 100Hz. (576i100).

Quote:
When did you guy's get RGB scart over there

mid 80s.

Quote:
and is considered better or equal to component?

theoretically it's better. In practice (for 15khz signals) it's about the same. Advantage of component is that it can carry ED (480p) and HD (720p/1080i) as well, while Scart is limited to 15khz signals (with the the exception of "golden scart" which was available on exactly ONE Sony TV set around 1996).


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 Post subject: Re: Sony Trinitron model numbers
PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 6:27 am 


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Do you happen to know the model of that Sony set offhand? Did it only add ED?


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 Post subject: Re: Sony Trinitron model numbers
PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 7:52 am 


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Fudoh wrote:
Quote:
What is internal framedoubling?

if you have a 31khz tube installed in a TV you can either do linedoubling (480i60 to 480p60) or you can do framedoubling (480i60 to 480i120). Since europe's 50Hz flicker more than 60Hz in NTSC countries in the mid 90s we got TVs that ran internally at 100Hz. (576i100).


I've read that 15khz signal will result in a low quality picture when displayed on a 100Hz-TV.
Is it generally so? Can the 100Hz capability be turned off on those TVs?


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 Post subject: Re: Sony Trinitron model numbers
PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 11:27 am 


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Quote:
Do you happen to know the model of that Sony set offhand? Did it only add ED?

no I don't. Was a 12,000 DM model ($18k back then). Sony's ultra high end 16:9 set. Curved tube. 32". It added HD-MAC compatibility which is basically 1080i, but totally flopped in Europe.

Quote:
I've read that 15khz signal will result in a low quality picture when displayed on a 100Hz-TV.

that's usually right and it usually can't be turned off.


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 Post subject: Re: Sony Trinitron model numbers
PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 11:18 am 


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Any feedback on the Sony Trinitron Model KV-21C5E? Can't find any relevant info on the Google, but is a good bargain at a local auction. Anyone know this model, are good for retro gaming?

I just found it have an FE-1 Chassis


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 Post subject: Re: Sony Trinitron model numbers
PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 1:04 pm 


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it's a digital chassis with a osd where you change the geometry settings instead of physical pots. personally don't like those.


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 Post subject: Re: Sony Trinitron model numbers
PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 2:24 pm 


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And it seems is "made in Spain", nothing against Spain, but Trinitrons made in Spain have proved over the years to be less reliable than the Made in UK, or other places.


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 Post subject: Re: Sony Trinitron model numbers
PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 4:27 pm 



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Location: London, England, UK
KV 21LS30x is a made in Spain FE-2 flat trinitron. I was able to get perfect geometry on mine before I gave it to a charity shop. The convergence wasn't great though and 600 line PVMs make it look like crap even a knackered 23 year old one. Its the stripe pitch, once you go super fine you don't go back!


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 Post subject: Re: Sony Trinitron model numbers
PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 7:51 pm 


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I would suggest finding a non-sony set with an analog chassis with a phillips tube. Or some make like Blaupunkt, Grundig or Loewe.


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 Post subject: Re: Sony Trinitron model numbers
PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 8:34 pm 


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What about this Grundig T55-440?


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 Post subject: Re: Sony Trinitron model numbers
PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 9:09 pm 


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Funny - it has the CUC4400 chassis, the same one i have in my TV which is right beside me. It's a 14" TV, but has some pretty damn good colours, even after all those years.

If the tube is the same this might be a very nice TV. The chassis is also partly digital, but i would have to check if it doesn't have analog geometry controls. My model has an RGB Scart so i mostly use it for connecting DIY stuff before connecting it to my LCD for troubleshooting.

Image

Image

Pictures don't do it any justice, but i love it.


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 Post subject: Re: Sony Trinitron model numbers
PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 9:38 pm 


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Some money shots:

Image

Image

Could use some overscan adjustments, but as you can see the picture is pretty darn good. All the Sony's i had were prety washed out compared to this.


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 Post subject: Re: Sony Trinitron model numbers
PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2013 1:12 pm 


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Looks very good, might worth a visit to seller's house to see it in action. Gonna take a console with me to see how is the geometry after all this years.


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 Post subject: Re: Sony Trinitron model numbers
PostPosted: Sat Sep 14, 2013 11:56 pm 


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So are their any model numbers of the older charcoal color models that I should keep an eye out for?


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 Post subject: Re: Sony Trinitron model numbers
PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 9:52 pm 


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DrMattBuckets wrote:
So are their any model numbers of the older charcoal color models that I should keep an eye out for?


Here is a list of tv sets having the FE-1 chassis (which is supposed to be very good and not much worse than the AE-1 chassis):

KV25C5A SONY
KV25C5B SONY
KV25C5D SONY
KV25C5E SONY
KV25C5K SONY
KV25C5R SONY
KV29C5A SONY
KV29C5B SONY
KV29C5D SONY
KV29C5E SONY
KV29C5K SONY
KV29C5R SONY
KV21C5B SONY
KV21C5D SONY
KV21C5E SONY
KV21C5K SONY
KV21C5R SONY
KV21M5D SONY
KV21T5D SONY
KV21X5A SONY
KV21X5B SONY
KV21X5D SONY
KV21X5E SONY
KV21X5K SONY
KV21X5L SONY
KV21X5R SONY
KV21X5U SONY
KV25K5A SONY
KV25K5B SONY
KV25K5D SONY
KV25K5E SONY
KV25K5U SONY
KV29K5A SONY
KV29K5B SONY
KV29K5D SONY
KV29K5E SONY
KV29K5U SONY
KV29X5 SONY
KV29X5B SONY
KV29X5D SONY
KV29X5E SONY
KV29X5A SONY
KV29X5K SONY
KV29X5L SONY
KV29X5R SONY
KV29X5U SONY
KV25M2D SONY
KV25M2A SONY
KV25T2A SONY
KV25T2B SONY
KV25T2D SONY
KV25M2E SONY
KV25T2E SONY
KV25T2K SONY
KV25M2K SONY
KV25T2R SONY
KV25T2L SONY
KV25T2U SONY
KV25X5 SONY
KV25R2D SONY
KV25R2K SONY
KV29B5E SONY
KV25B5E SONY
KV25X5A SONY
KV25X5B SONY
KV25X5D SONY
KV25X5E SONY
KV25X5K SONY
KV25X5L SONY
KV25X5R SONY
KV25X5U SONY
KV25R2A SONY
KV25R2E SONY
KV29C5 SONY

I usually do it the other way round though: For every Sony TV that pops up for sale i usually Google the model name + "chassis". For example "KV-29X1D chassis" which usually pops up the chassis model, which i then look up further.


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 Post subject: Re: Sony Trinitron model numbers
PostPosted: Fri Oct 04, 2013 8:52 pm 


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What about this chassis: GRUNDIG T55-731 CUC7303


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 Post subject: Re: Sony Trinitron model numbers
PostPosted: Fri Oct 04, 2013 10:16 pm 


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Any idea about the sony triniton modells that have an osd where one is able to set up the geometry etc. (as oposed to pots on the inside of the tv)?
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 Post subject: Re: Sony Trinitron model numbers
PostPosted: Fri Oct 04, 2013 10:19 pm 


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One of the Trinitron classics with full digital chassis is the KV29X1D. Has been my TV for many, many years.


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 Post subject: Re: Sony Trinitron model numbers
PostPosted: Sat Oct 05, 2013 8:25 am 


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Any idea whether this model is good or not and whether it has a digital menu to fiddl with the picture settings like geometry etc.?

Sony Triniton KV X2131D

Edit: google tells me, it's got an AE1B chassis. Is that good or bad?

Edit 2: what about the sony triniton kv 29X5B? Same question as above. It has the FE-1 chassis.

And another question: which one of the 2 is better?
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 Post subject: Re: Sony Trinitron model numbers
PostPosted: Sat Oct 05, 2013 8:51 am 


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Drachenherz wrote:
Any idea whether this model is good or not and whether it has a digital menu to fiddl with the picture settings like geometry etc.?

Sony Triniton KV X2131D

Edit: google tells me, it's got an AE1B chassis. Is that good or bad?

Edit 2: what about the sony triniton kv 29X5B? Same question as above. It has the FE-1 chassis.

And another question: which one of the 2 is better?


ae1b chassis - analog pots on the pcb, supposedly the best chassis for low-res / groovymame

fe-1 chassis - digital, osd

Still i would ratherask myself what size of TV i want to have, as there are like 8 inches between those two.


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 Post subject: Re: Sony Trinitron model numbers
PostPosted: Sat Oct 05, 2013 9:08 am 


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matrigs wrote:
Drachenherz wrote:
Any idea whether this model is good or not and whether it has a digital menu to fiddl with the picture settings like geometry etc.?

Sony Triniton KV X2131D

Edit: google tells me, it's got an AE1B chassis. Is that good or bad?

Edit 2: what about the sony triniton kv 29X5B? Same question as above. It has the FE-1 chassis.

And another question: which one of the 2 is better?


ae1b chassis - analog pots on the pcb, supposedly the best chassis for low-res / groovymame

fe-1 chassis - digital, osd

Still i would ratherask myself what size of TV i want to have, as there are like 8 inches between those two.


Both. :P

Seriously, the smaller would replace a B&O MX4000 and the larger one should replace my probably broken PVM 29sumpfing.

The smaller one is for auctioning for 35 swiss francs (around 40$), the larger one starts at 1 swiss franc or 20.-- BIN.

Should I buy those?

Edit: come to think of it: the 29 is too large, after all... I think I keep on the lookout and opt for a 25 modell, if one pops up.
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 Post subject: Re: Sony Trinitron model numbers
PostPosted: Sat Oct 05, 2013 10:40 am 


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Yesterday i was at a house of a seller of a sony KV21FT1E, only there i can checked the model, as the seller don't inform that on the local auction. The digital osd was good because i can change the horizontal position, and the rotation, no need to go to service menu. But it was a flat screen, and besides the geometry still be in good shape, i tryed my small PC with groovy mame, and strangely this TV cuts a little at the bottom of the screen. My old samsung crt tv hands better groovymame and the constant change of resolutions, displaying all the diferent resolutions inside the screen, adjusting it and no cut at all, this sony cutted games like r-type, final fight and many others. Im finding very dificult to find a good sony trinitron here in Portugal, all the remaining tvs are newer than the old curve tubes, and i don't want flat screens.

The good in scart tvs is that they handle very the groovymame with an home made vga to scart, or an UMSA. Because my arcade monitor works great in windows desktop and majority of the games, but as soon as a special game like r-type starts i have to adjust the Vertical frequency. Its quite boring have to do that all time, and adjust the geometry.

Next objective, find a good crt tv that handles all the major groovy mame resolutions without cutting.


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 Post subject: Re: Sony Trinitron model numbers
PostPosted: Mon Oct 07, 2013 8:18 am 


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Overkill wrote:
Next objective, find a good crt tv that handles all the major groovy mame resolutions without cutting.


Anything with a Grundig chassis will be just fine for that. The first time I saw R-Type with all 256 lines displayed correctly was on a Siemens 28" loaded with a Grundig board. I'm yet to find a Grundig chassis that crops in the way that some of the Loewes and Sonys do.
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