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 Post subject: Re: Micomsoft XCAPTURE-1 USB 3.0 Capture Unit
PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 10:55 am 



Joined: 29 Jul 2017
Posts: 18
Alright - I worked out why I'm having the HDMI stutter issues. The Switch outputs at a perfect 60fps from what I can tell. The default 59.94Hz setting in Amarec causes the occasional stutter, with a manual 60Hz ending up with perfectly smooth video output.

Unfortunately 60fps is not an option in OBS (with 59.94Hz being the default and also the maximum). I can set 30fps manually though, which seems to work fine in terms of stutters.

I would have just set the Amarec window as game capture, but that doesn't work for some reason... And setting window capture doesn't crop the toolbar.


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 Post subject: Re: Micomsoft XCAPTURE-1 USB 3.0 Capture Unit
PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 6:30 pm 


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Joined: 25 Jan 2005
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I think I'm about ready to throw the xcap in the trash honestly.

I'm getting the semi regular big gluts of stuttering with PC Engine or Megadrive (both via sync strike), or via 60fps JAMMA boards, it's like the PC just can't get the frames out of the device or gets hung up rendering them - yet system load is about 2%. I don't have to be recording or streaming - any preview app does it, with amarec the least affected.

I've tried:
Lots of fps settings
Various resolutions
Scene and matching profile which are totally unscaled
Frame rate control in xcap panel on or off, auto resolution on or off, phase adjustment auto on or off
Disabling all non essential services
Setting GPU profile to fastest
Setting everything to max in power management
Various scaling types including disabled
Turning deinterlace on or off
Turning off buffering in OBS (turning it on gives the identical stutter 100% of the time)
Sources with or without sync cleaning
Turning off all unused hardware (bluetooth etc)
Disabling aero and picking performance desktop settings
Disabled all forms of power management, virtualisation, etc
Tried hyperthreading on or off

Unfortunately no other computer in the house has a USB3 port, maybe I just have a bad xcapture.
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 Post subject: Re: Micomsoft XCAPTURE-1 USB 3.0 Capture Unit
PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 7:52 pm 



Joined: 22 Oct 2014
Posts: 28
system11 wrote:
I think I'm about ready to throw the xcap in the trash honestly.

I'm getting the semi regular big gluts of stuttering with PC Engine or Megadrive (both via sync strike), or via 60fps JAMMA boards, it's like the PC just can't get the frames out of the device or gets hung up rendering them - yet system load is about 2%. I don't have to be recording or streaming - any preview app does it, with amarec the least affected.

I've tried:
Lots of fps settings
Various resolutions
Scene and matching profile which are totally unscaled


Frame rate control in xcap panel on or off, auto resolution on or off, phase adjustment auto on or off
Disabling all non essential services
Setting GPU profile to fastest
Setting everything to max in power management
Various scaling types including disabled
Turning deinterlace on or off
Turning off buffering in OBS (turning it on gives the identical stutter 100% of the time)
Sources with or without sync cleaning
Turning off all unused hardware (bluetooth etc)
Disabling aero and picking performance desktop settings
Disabled all forms of power management, virtualisation, etc
Tried hyperthreading on or off

Unfortunately no other computer in the house has a USB3 port, maybe I just have a bad xcapture.


Try using a powered USB hub with at least 2amps rating. I had issues with dropouts on my xcapture because of insufficient current being supplied by the motherboards port. Also what chipset is your ish 3.0 port on your Motherboard?


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 Post subject: Re: Micomsoft XCAPTURE-1 USB 3.0 Capture Unit
PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 9:12 pm 


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That's so weird system11... my Genesis works flawlessly on my Xcapture1 (as do all my consoles). And it's hooked up to a POS pc.

I really don't get why yours behave like this *scratches head*



One thing you didn't mention in your list is what firmware version your on...
just throwing that out there


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 Post subject: Re: Micomsoft XCAPTURE-1 USB 3.0 Capture Unit
PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 9:42 pm 


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Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 10513
Location: Germany
Quote:
I think I'm about ready to throw the xcap in the trash honestly.

I think while the basic design idea of the unit is good, it's quite flawed and extremely dependent on the hardware on both sides and the drivers you're using.

IMO both the XCAP-1 and the Startech version are only worth the hassle if - for some reason - you need to record your sources in their original resolution. If you can live with recording upscaled signals it gets much easier by pairing a solid live h264 encoder (like the Elgato HD60) with a good upscaling unit like the Framemeister or the OSSC (along with some scaler that converts from the OSSCs output to standarized 720p/1080p60).

Yes, it's a bit more expensive on the hardware end, but it saves you so much trouble (and time in postprocessing), that it should be worth it.


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 Post subject: Re: Micomsoft XCAPTURE-1 USB 3.0 Capture Unit
PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2017 4:49 am 



Joined: 29 Jul 2017
Posts: 18
Aye, I'm relatively happy with the USB3HDCAP's ability to capture raw 240p RGB video - and it seems to work OK for me (even with the HDMI capture/stutter issues I'm experiencing) but if I were to go back and start my setup again (knowing that I'd want to capture/stream footage in the future) I definitely would have opted for the Framemeister over the OSSC.

In terms of stuttering issues, I'm pretty sure it's nothing to do with the actual unit (as such), and more to do with refresh rates. Older consoles don't generally stick exactly to an exact 59.94Hz... I have two SNES consoles that tend to output at different refresh rates (according to the OSSC anyway) between 60.05Hz and 60.22Hz - Hell, my N64 is closer to 61Hz. Add 60Hz modded PAL consoles into the mix and you're even less likely to have a standard refresh rate output. So while your Mega Drive might not work brilliantly, another unit might be OK?

While AmarecTV deals with this fairly well (1 frame stutters every second or so), Directshow (from something like OBS) seems to deal with this discrepancy in a different way. I have a feeling you'd be able to minimise your issues (as would I) if we could just choose "60fps" from the USB3HDCAP's settings from within OBS, rather than having to stick to 59.94Hz. Essentially you have OBS trying to preview/capture at 60fps overall, with the capture card set at 59.94Hz, and the actual signal being something slightly different - so it's all just slowly losing sync until you get a few seconds of everything being completely out of whack, then it recovers again.

Try setting a custom resolution/fps in OBS under the XCAPTURE's properties. Choose "highest FPS" as the output and see if that make a difference. Alternatively set your capture frame rate (in OBS settings) to 59.94, and see if that helps at all.

You're also correct in leaving buffering turned off - it'll basically skip any frames that aren't where it expects them to be (inserting them in later, causing stuttering, rather than just pumping out every frame as they appear)

EDIT - so yeah, the Switch outputs at 59.99Hz, which desyncs over time in OBS. I did an AmarecTV window capture in OBS, and while Amarec was silky smooth, OBS started stuttering after a while. Just seems like some sort of OBS limitation. If I could set the source timings manually rather than choosing from a list maybe it'd be better.


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 Post subject: Re: Micomsoft XCAPTURE-1 USB 3.0 Capture Unit
PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2017 11:09 am 


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Joined: 08 Mar 2015
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Location: Québec City
Yeah Amarec handles the "odd framerates of consoles" situation allright in my book. It doesn't try to convert it to 60fps, but I'd rather it behave like this(despite it resulting in stutter) and let me do the frame conversion myself in post-processing, than convert the framerate itself (which it would admittedly not do a great job at).
But granted this is not user-friendly

Looks like the Framemeister is a great machine to put in front of that card to get captures at a solid 60fps though


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 Post subject: Re: Micomsoft XCAPTURE-1 USB 3.0 Capture Unit
PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2017 3:04 pm 


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Joined: 25 Jan 2005
Posts: 5936
Location: UK
FinalBaton wrote:
That's so weird system11... my Genesis works flawlessly on my Xcapture1 (as do all my consoles). And it's hooked up to a POS pc.

I really don't get why yours behave like this *scratches head*



One thing you didn't mention in your list is what firmware version your on...
just throwing that out there


Tried the three last versions of firmware, all do the same thing.
The USB port is "Intel Extendable 3.0 USB", it's built in on the Dell M4700. Both 3.0SS ports behave the same way.
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 Post subject: Re: Micomsoft XCAPTURE-1 USB 3.0 Capture Unit
PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2017 5:06 pm 


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Joined: 25 Jan 2005
Posts: 5936
Location: UK
Fudoh wrote:
Quote:
I think I'm about ready to throw the xcap in the trash honestly.

I think while the basic design idea of the unit is good, it's quite flawed and extremely dependent on the hardware on both sides and the drivers you're using.

IMO both the XCAP-1 and the Startech version are only worth the hassle if - for some reason - you need to record your sources in their original resolution. If you can live with recording upscaled signals it gets much easier by pairing a solid live h264 encoder (like the Elgato HD60) with a good upscaling unit like the Framemeister or the OSSC (along with some scaler that converts from the OSSCs output to standarized 720p/1080p60).

Yes, it's a bit more expensive on the hardware end, but it saves you so much trouble (and time in postprocessing), that it should be worth it.


If my sources include composite interlace 50hz computers (xcap thinks the atari 800 is 576i), PCBs, and RGB 60hz consoles, which scaler do I buy? The source feed is all coming out of a scart switch. I don't care about lag, just a good picture scaled to 720P. Some of the sources aren't perfect 4:3 to begin with. Is this XRGB3 territory?

Before I go wasting my money on a powered USB hub, has anyone here used an X capture or the Startech eequivalent via a USB hub? The Japanese X capture specifications page suggests that hubs cannot be used, but I think when it was released most if not all hubs were 2.0 only.
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 Post subject: Re: Micomsoft XCAPTURE-1 USB 3.0 Capture Unit
PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2017 7:25 pm 


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Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 10513
Location: Germany
Quote:
If my sources include composite interlace 50hz computers (xcap thinks the atari 800 is 576i), PCBs, and RGB 60hz consoles, which scaler do I buy? The source feed is all coming out of a scart switch. I don't care about lag, just a good picture scaled to 720P. Some of the sources aren't perfect 4:3 to begin with. Is this XRGB3 territory?

no, that's all Framemeister territory. The best deinterlacing you'll find anywhere (with results extremely close to native progressive) and high compatibility. You can disable the v-sync for recording, which gives you fantastic compatibility with the Elgato HD/HD60/HD60Pro. Of course you have full aspect ratio control. CPS2 in proper 4:3 ? No problem.

Source compatibility is very high. You can expect all consoles to work. There once was a compatibility list with arcade PCBs and most will work (can't find the link any longer, sorry). A few years back Irem boards (55Hz) and Seibu boards (54Hz) caused problems. I don't know what the status for these is right now.


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 Post subject: Re: Micomsoft XCAPTURE-1 USB 3.0 Capture Unit
PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2017 9:59 pm 



Joined: 29 Jul 2017
Posts: 18
honestly if you're considering going down the route of buying a Framemeister then I'd just sell the XCAPTURE (or return it) and buy a cheaper capture card instead - something like a Live Gamer Extreme or HD60 would do, and have better driver support than the XCAP/USB3HDCAP will ever have.


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 Post subject: Re: Micomsoft XCAPTURE-1 USB 3.0 Capture Unit
PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2017 10:00 pm 


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Joined: 08 Mar 2015
Posts: 1949
Location: Québec City
system11 wrote:
Before I go wasting my money on a powered USB hub, has anyone here used an X capture or the Startech eequivalent via a USB hub? The Japanese X capture specifications page suggests that hubs cannot be used, but I think when it was released most if not all hubs were 2.0 only.

Never plugged mine through a hub. Akways straight in the PC. And in a 2.0 port, no less. At this point I say give it a shot, plug straight into your PC.

One last thing... in Amarec 3.10, did you try to put the Framerate to 999 under the "Recording" tab? This tells the software to specifically and only use the framerate you manually entered under the "Graph 1(Device)" tab, if I'm remembering correctly. And then in "Graph 1(Device)", you enter one of these (with a COMA to denote the decimals, and NOT a PERIOD. This is important) : http://tasvideos.org/PlatformFramerates.html

Who knows, might be it...


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 Post subject: Re: Micomsoft XCAPTURE-1 USB 3.0 Capture Unit
PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 3:39 am 



Joined: 29 Jul 2017
Posts: 18
@FinalBaton

Could you give me a quick rundown/screenshot of what settings you have applied in the USB3HDCAP/XCAPTURE's driver settings?

Don't know whether to keep things like "frame rate adjustment" or "auto resolution scaling" turned on/off (etc)... Same goes for sharpness (maybe it'll reduce Mega Drive jailbars).

Also, is there a way to add custom device-level frame (refresh) rates in OBS that actually work? I know how to change OBS' overall capture output, but attempting to change the frame rate under the properties for the USB3HDCAP's source (by adding a custom resolution) shows no difference in the video preview window - it always seems to stay at 59.94Hz, and there's no option to add custom ones from what I can see.

I'm using Amarec to record footage - but OBS is really my only option when it comes to streaming.

Ta!


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 Post subject: Re: Micomsoft XCAPTURE-1 USB 3.0 Capture Unit
PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 4:47 am 


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Joined: 08 Mar 2015
Posts: 1949
Location: Québec City
vmagix, no problem. here are

Image
Image

I'm not familiar with OBS sadly, I've barely used it. I mainly use Amarec


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 Post subject: Re: Micomsoft XCAPTURE-1 USB 3.0 Capture Unit
PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 5:56 am 



Joined: 29 Jul 2017
Posts: 18
legend, thanks!

EDIT - noticed some of the labeling seem to be different (the RGB values for example) on that screen from the driver I'm using (seem to remember mine being 141.5 or something, Thrillness' drivers)

Do you know which driver version you're using? (sorry to keep asking questions!)


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 Post subject: Re: Micomsoft XCAPTURE-1 USB 3.0 Capture Unit
PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 1:05 pm 


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Joined: 08 Mar 2015
Posts: 1949
Location: Québec City
vmagix, the firmware I use is the one that came stock with my USB3HDCAP, but I don't remember which version it is -_-

I'll go check the disc that came with my USB3HDCAP and come back to you



EDIT : checked my install CD and this is what the ReadMe file says :

DriverVer = 07/08/2014, 1.1.0.129 ; INF VERSION


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 Post subject: Re: Micomsoft XCAPTURE-1 USB 3.0 Capture Unit
PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 1:14 am 



Joined: 14 Aug 2017
Posts: 2
Hi everyone

I ordered the USB3HDCAP and am having issues (I think it's actually AmarecTV Live that's causing the issues).

What I'm trying to do is setup the card in AmarecTV, then use the Live feature to output to OBS Studio. It works at first but randomly it will cut out (freezing in AmarecTV and giving the splash screen in OBS) until I refresh the device from within Amarec. However if I just use the device in OBS, or just in Amarec without the Live function, it will not freeze (have done multiple streams for 4+ hours).

So here's what I've tried:

Using many different drivers (modifying many of the Micomsoft ones and now I'm simply using the latest drivers on Startech)
Using different versions of AmarecTV (2.20c, 2.31, 3.10)
Different inputs to the USB3HDCAP (component, HDMI)
Different USB3 ports on my laptop (it only has two)
No other USB devices plugged in
Reinstalled Windows from scratch and installing nothing but the drivers, OBS and AmarecTV/Live

So at this point I'm completely out of ideas and have no idea why this is happening. I'm not even recording at these times either, I just simply have to have Amarec and OBS open and running and eventually it will happen. When I do record I get no dropped frames in fact it turned out quite well with HDMI:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8bfxsc_Q3hc

Using Windows 10 64bit. I really hope someone can help because I've been googling for hours and nobody seems to have had this issue.


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 Post subject: Re: Micomsoft XCAPTURE-1 USB 3.0 Capture Unit
PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2017 4:38 pm 



Joined: 29 Jul 2017
Posts: 18
AaronSR wrote:
Hi everyone

I ordered the USB3HDCAP and am having issues (I think it's actually AmarecTV Live that's causing the issues).

What I'm trying to do is setup the card in AmarecTV, then use the Live feature to output to OBS Studio. It works at first but randomly it will cut out (freezing in AmarecTV and giving the splash screen in OBS) until I refresh the device from within Amarec. However if I just use the device in OBS, or just in Amarec without the Live function, it will not freeze (have done multiple streams for 4+ hours).

So here's what I've tried:

Using many different drivers (modifying many of the Micomsoft ones and now I'm simply using the latest drivers on Startech)
Using different versions of AmarecTV (2.20c, 2.31, 3.10)
Different inputs to the USB3HDCAP (component, HDMI)
Different USB3 ports on my laptop (it only has two)
No other USB devices plugged in
Reinstalled Windows from scratch and installing nothing but the drivers, OBS and AmarecTV/Live

So at this point I'm completely out of ideas and have no idea why this is happening. I'm not even recording at these times either, I just simply have to have Amarec and OBS open and running and eventually it will happen. When I do record I get no dropped frames in fact it turned out quite well with HDMI:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8bfxsc_Q3hc

Using Windows 10 64bit. I really hope someone can help because I've been googling for hours and nobody seems to have had this issue.


Using OBS studio (32bit) I manage to get Amarec's live function working - but haven't used it much so can't confirm if it crashes after a while. On a similar note have you noticed any stuttering when displaying/recording HDMI using OBS? Like it works OK for a while then seems to go out of sync? Trying to work out if it's just OBS being a dick or if I have an issue with the card itself :(


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 Post subject: Re: Micomsoft XCAPTURE-1 USB 3.0 Capture Unit
PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2017 5:51 pm 


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Joined: 08 Mar 2015
Posts: 1949
Location: Québec City
vmagix : don't know if you've seen the edit to my pevious post, but I checked my install CD and found the driver info :

DriverVer = 07/08/2014, 1.1.0.129 ; INF VERSION


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 Post subject: Re: Micomsoft XCAPTURE-1 USB 3.0 Capture Unit
PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2017 6:43 pm 



Joined: 29 Jul 2017
Posts: 18
FinalBaton wrote:
vmagix : don't know if you've seen the edit to my pevious post, but I checked my install CD and found the driver info :

DriverVer = 07/08/2014, 1.1.0.129 ; INF VERSION


Ah thanks! Will try it out and see how it goes. I have a feeling my issues are probably related to USB3 bandwidth and the PCIe slot I have my USB3 card plugged in to. Gonna try messing about with it when some PC components turn up tomorrow.


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 Post subject: Re: Micomsoft XCAPTURE-1 USB 3.0 Capture Unit
PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2017 8:09 pm 



Joined: 14 Aug 2017
Posts: 2
vmagix wrote:
Using OBS studio (32bit) I manage to get Amarec's live function working - but haven't used it much so can't confirm if it crashes after a while. On a similar note have you noticed any stuttering when displaying/recording HDMI using OBS? Like it works OK for a while then seems to go out of sync? Trying to work out if it's just OBS being a dick or if I have an issue with the card itself :(


At this point I've simply disabled Amarec Live and just using Window Capture instead. So yeah, pretty sure Amarec Live is iffy with Windows 10 as it states up to 8.1 or something on the download site.

And no, I did a 5 hour ish stream with HDMI the day I got it with no problems. This was 720p59.94 and using the video capture directly within OBS Studio. I'll do more testing later tonight and post my settings.

EDIT: This was using OBS Studio 64 bit. And now that I'm simply using Window Capture, I've gone back to 64 bit again. There should be no difference though. But yeah that's another thing, Amarec Live should be updated to use DirectShow 64 bit filters.


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 Post subject: Re: Micomsoft XCAPTURE-1 USB 3.0 Capture Unit
PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2017 10:24 pm 


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Joined: 08 Mar 2015
Posts: 1949
Location: Québec City
vmagix wrote:
FinalBaton wrote:
vmagix : don't know if you've seen the edit to my pevious post, but I checked my install CD and found the driver info :

DriverVer = 07/08/2014, 1.1.0.129 ; INF VERSION


Ah thanks! Will try it out and see how it goes. I have a feeling my issues are probably related to USB3 bandwidth and the PCIe slot I have my USB3 card plugged in to. Gonna try messing about with it when some PC components turn up tomorrow.

If you can't get the card to work with USB 3.0, don't hesitate to go with 2.0

That's what I use for the old consoles and it works great


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 Post subject: Re: Micomsoft XCAPTURE-1 USB 3.0 Capture Unit
PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2017 10:31 pm 


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Bought an inline USB power tester, xcap draws 530ma with no source and only 300ma with one, 5.02v under load. So that's another theory out of the window.
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 Post subject: Re: Micomsoft XCAPTURE-1 USB 3.0 Capture Unit
PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 11:43 am 


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Location: Québec City
Looks like this card is not working out for you System11

Apart from trying to replicate the exact settings across all parameters from a user on here who got it to work right, I don't know what else to tell you

Maybe you're just better off selling the card


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