RGB PC Engine Jail Bars

[NWrain]

I purchased a RGB modded PC Engine a while ago. It's a wonderful system, but I have been noticing jailbars when I play games. They are somewhat apparent when I scroll left and right dodging bullets. I was wondering if other people have encountered this, and if people know any possible solutions. This is a doujindance RGB PC Engine that I bought on Ebay. It was one that he had modded for RGB, S-video, and Composite outputs.

edit. This is a PC Engine Duo R

Super Raiden: PC Engine->Sync Strike->BVM20E1U


Super Raiden: PC Engine->Sync Strike->Vigatec Dune F->Eizo FS2333

[Fudoh]

Yes, to a certain degree I've noticed this on most PCE systems. What particular PCE system is this ? Duo, classic white, Core ? There's a little mod in which a capacitor is added directly to the PCE graphics chip and which can help to clear this (to a certain degree).

[NWrain]

This is a PC Engine Duo R. I was looking at videos of other peoples RGB PCE on youtube, and I didn't notice any jail bars on other peoples PC Engines. I was wondering if I was encountering them because I have a S-video version. I used S-video on a big projection TV and the jail bars really stand out on that one.

[kamiboy]

I have a IFU-30 combo which I modified myself and am using with a boosted SCART I bought online. I use it on a PVM L2 via XSELECT-D4 and I have a crystal clear picture.

I briefly tried it with an Framemeister as well which got me the clearest RGB picture out of all my consoles. I dont remember seeing any such thing then either.

I got the signals from the extension port pins on the IFU side, and went with composite sync rather than video.

[16shot]

Blast from the past is this

My very first PC Engine purchased waaaaay back did this. It was one of those early french Sodipeng RGB modded white models. For the longest time i thought those jailbars were an issue with my Amiga monitor.

It wasn't the case though. I still have somewhere a modded Duo-R (also from Sodipeng, very nice and clean mod) and it does it as well.

They're most visible on greyish tints.

As Fudoh points out, this is something that's inherent to the PC Engine's video hardware itself.

[Fudoh]

I briefly tried it with an Framemeister as well which got me the clearest RGB picture out of all my consoles

but that's with a Core unit, right ? White + IFU on the Mini is messy.

[kamiboy]

Yeah, it is a CoreGrafx. Didnt know it made a difference between the models. I guess the RF interference might be the cause?

In any case my video is artefact free.

[fagin]

Just tried my white PCE and my RGB modded TENNOKOE unit. Jailbar free into the BVM via a Sync Strike. However my DUO-R that I RGB modded is not as clear as any of my other PCE's.

[kamiboy]

I will be getting some Turbo Duos in a few weeks from now. I'll be putting them through RGB mods, so I'll have a chance to make a direct comparison as well.

I'll also be getting a copy of Super Raiden, so much the better, I can even post pics.

Must have something to do with the specific RGB mod though as there is no one way to go about it, especially the details surrounding the signal boost process.

As I have plenty of parts here as well as two PVM's, an XSELECT-D4 and a Framemeister I can experiment a bit.

[NWrain]

Blast from the past is this

My very first PC Engine purchased waaaaay back did this. It was one of those early french Sodipeng RGB modded white models. For the longest time i thought those jailbars were an issue with my Amiga monitor.

It wasn't the case though. I still have somewhere a modded Duo-R (also from Sodipeng, very nice and clean mod) and it does it as well.

They're most visible on greyish tints.

As Fudoh points out, this is something that's inherent to the PC Engine's video hardware itself.

So this happens to all PCE regardless of hardware revisions, or RGB amp design?

I will be getting some Turbo Duos in a few weeks from now. I'll be putting them through RGB mods, so I'll have a chance to make a direct comparison as well.

I'll also be getting a copy of Super Raiden, so much the better, I can even post pics.

Must have something to do with the specific RGB mod though as there is no one way to go about it, especially the details surrounding the signal boost process.

As I have plenty of parts here as well as two PVM's, an XSELECT-D4 and a Framemeister I can experiment a bit.

I don't have many games for the PCE yet, Super Raiden was the easiest way to photograph it. The jail bar issue shows up on greyish tints like 16Shot said, and other single color textures. On S-Video the jail bars are rather oppressive, especially on Winds of Thunder.

If I opened up the console, and photographed it. Would that help people identify what kind of amp was used in my particular unit?

[16shot]

So this happens to all PCE regardless of hardware revisions, or RGB amp design?

I'd say so yes.

An unmodded, untouched PC Engine (Coregrafx and after) will produce this through composite so chances are they can only be more prominent through RGB. Not sure how the quality of the actual modification can alter this but those jailbars are definitely typical of the PC Engine's original video signal.

This pops up upon image googling 'pc engine rgb mod':

http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2429/3644 ... 7f6a_z.jpg

[papa_november]

What kind of amp does doujindance install? There's a bunch of different designs floating around, none of which are terribly easy to build due the number of components involved and a lack of pre-printed PCBs.

[kamiboy]

So this happens to all PCE regardless of hardware revisions, or RGB amp design?

I'd say so yes.

An unmodded, untouched PC Engine (Coregrafx and after) will produce this through composite so chances are they can only be more prominent through RGB. Not sure how the quality of the actual modification can alter this but those jailbars are definitely typical of the PC Engine's original video signal.

This pops up upon image googling 'pc engine rgb mod':

http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2429/3644 ... 7f6a_z.jpg

I am puzzled as to why I have never noticed this on my setup then. It is not like I am not sensitive to visual artefacts, I usually pick up on them at first sight.

[Shining]

Same here. Bought my RGB Duo-RX from VGI in 2007 and it has jailbars. I have no idea what version of RGB mod it is though.

[ninn]

same here.

Got a RGB-Modded PCengine DuoR, and it shows gaylbars.

They are just as subtile as your pictures show.

ninn

[RGB32E]

I don't think anyone has found a definitive way to effectively filter the JBs from the Hu6260. My experiment with the THS7374 worked out well (RGBS), but JBs are there if you're looking for them. The heavier LPF modes on the XRGB-mini help reduce this. The LPF in the THS7314 (3 channel) is heavier than the THS7374, so perhaps that might reduce it further to use it.

IIRC, the doujindance RGB modded systems have used various RGB buffers. Older ones use NJM2267 amps, and perhaps he switched to a THS7314 at one time. I don't think any of his RGB modded NEC systems ever included CSYNC. I used the THS7374 so that I could buffer all 4 signals (red, green, blue, and CSYNC).



I need to redo the wiring to and from the pictured buffer - thicker gauge wire, twist the pair for GND & +5VDC, and shorten the output wiring.

[NWrain]

Thanks everyone for your input. It's a unfortunate minor problem, but I can live with it.

Fudoh mentioned a capacitor mod, but I think I'll keep everything as is, and move on.

[Shining]

Hijacking this thread. I'm very curious about which method was used to mod my Duo-RX. The only info i've got is that i bought it from Videogameimports.com in 2007 and that it has some kind of "color booster" built into the mod. I have contacted them but they don't have any more info on the matter. Googling around the internetz i read about someone called Saurian whom might have been doing mods for VGI in the past. Here's a pic of the mod itself: http://imgur.com/a/JzOgL#0

Anyone?

[Fudoh]

The Duo itself isn't boosted, so the booster has to be in the cable' scart header. Open it up, take a photo. They're all "color boosters", just based on different electronic parts.

[ThEmperorIsDead]

I wanted to add to this topic that I have 2 white PC Engines, both of which I RGB modded in the exact same way (both tested with the same cable with in scart rgb amp). One has very subtle jail bars the other does not and seems to be perfect. They both have different boards and the one which has the older board version is the one that doesn't appear to suffer from jail bars.

[Kyle]

Hihi. I got a bonus from work and got myself a nice Core Grafx 2, RGB modded Ten No Koe 2 and a Turbo Everdrive. I'm getting faint jail bars. They aren't as prominent as the OP here. More like this other picture in the thread.



I wanted to try the cap fix Fudoh mentioned:
http://pcengine.freeforums.org/jailbar-fix-t233.html

This is extra noobish, but the thread mentions to use a 22uf ceramic or tantalum cap. When I look for them online there are available in various voltages - 6.3, 10, 16, etc. Would one of those work better than another or am I just splitting hairs? I have a neighborhood electronic shop that should carry something similar.

[HDgaming42]

This is extra noobish, but the thread mentions to use a 22uf ceramic or tantalum cap. When I look for them online there are available in various voltages - 6.3, 10, 16, etc. Would one of those work better than another or am I just splitting hairs? I have a neighborhood electronic shop that should carry something similar.

Not to completely thread-jack here, but I'm in a similar boat. I've bought a handful of LM1881s but when I went to buy the caps and resistors I wasn't prepared to make further choices. It looks like I need:

2 x 0.1uf Capacitors (20V to 400V available)
1 x 680k Resistor (1/4W to 4W available)

Any guidance as to what will work--recommended V and W for a LM1881? Hopefully someone can address both our questions...

How do you determine what is a good cap or not? I've gotten caps on Digikey made by Panasonic. Provided they fit the specs above, is that a good choice?

Panasonic's a good brand, when I go cap shopping I get those along with Nichicon and Nippon Chemi-Con caps.

Is DigiKey a good place to buy from? I'm in Canada, so the $18 shipping on $2 worth of parts is a bit of a deterrent. Can someone buy good caps / resistors off eBay? Any recommendation on resistors?

Thx.

[hungar]

@Shining Wow someone got messy with the glue gun I'd wager you will find the 3xTransistor method in the scart lead http://www.mmmonkey.co.uk/pc-engine-rgb-amp/ Like this one.

I've tried the Transistor mod and the THS7314 the latter is by far the best. I also have a doujindance Duo R and the picture looks identical to my other Duo R with a THS7314. Very faint Jailbars on some games.

[kamiboy]

This is extra noobish, but the thread mentions to use a 22uf ceramic or tantalum cap. When I look for them online there are available in various voltages - 6.3, 10, 16, etc. Would one of those work better than another or am I just splitting hairs? I have a neighborhood electronic shop that should carry something similar.

Not to completely thread-jack here, but I'm in a similar boat. I've bought a handful of LM1881s but when I went to buy the caps and resistors I wasn't prepared to make further choices. It looks like I need:

2 x 0.1uf Capacitors (20V to 400V available)
1 x 680k Resistor (1/4W to 4W available)

Any guidance as to what will work--recommended V and W for a LM1881? Hopefully someone can address both our questions...

How do you determine what is a good cap or not? I've gotten caps on Digikey made by Panasonic. Provided they fit the specs above, is that a good choice?

Panasonic's a good brand, when I go cap shopping I get those along with Nichicon and Nippon Chemi-Con caps.

Is DigiKey a good place to buy from? I'm in Canada, so the $18 shipping on $2 worth of parts is a bit of a deterrent. Can someone buy good caps / resistors off eBay? Any recommendation on resistors?

Thx.

By the by, rubicon seems to be one of the best brands in electrolytic capacitors.

DigiKey is top notch when it comes to selection. They have so many different kinds of capacitors that you can go in there with very narrow specifications all the way down to how thick and long you want the cylinder types to be and find what you are looking for.

The thing with them is that shopping form them is not worth it unless you buy a lot because they insist on shipping with FedEX.

As for other sellers, if you want to buy from ebay here is a trick I used. Search for what you want and sort by closest to you. There are a couple of Canadian sellers of components that sell quality stock. Stay away from anything shipping from Hong Kong or China.

There is one Canadian seller in particular whose name is something something star or (*). I can vouch for them.

[Kyle]

Meh. The electronic store didn't have anything close enough to call good.

My modder guy said to use 22uF 16V caps. Ordered some from eBay.

[evil_ash_xero]

I have the same thing going on. I have a RGB modded PC Engine Duo.
Will this capacitor mod sort out it's problem much? It's not the end of the world, but I'm not keen on the bars.

[speedlolita]

Twinbee was a game that really made the jailbars show on my Core Grafx 2 before I sold it.

Will follow this thread closely as I'll be getting a virgin Duo R soon.

[kamiboy]

PC Engine owners must learn to love those bars. Think of them as vertical scanlines.

[Monstermug]

On my 20F1E I turn down the brightness whist tweaking the Chroma and contrast up a little and the very faint jail bars disappear. Well I guess it's still there but I've just hidden them

[Warcraft78]

First time post here.. Anyone try this fix for the jail bars with the two caps? I saw the picture fudoh posted and it kinda looks he just grounded it by just setting the leg of the two caps on the main board without solder. I'm considering doing this mod but I think there would be a spot you could solder it for a better ground?