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 Post subject: Re: Leo's exciting hand held LAG TEST device - out now !
PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 11:07 pm 


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Try to disable or enable gamer mode, if any.
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 Post subject: Re: Leo's exciting hand held LAG TEST device - out now !
PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2012 1:58 am 



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I enabled game mode, turned off any sort 120hz cinema motion, and I still have the same result. I also tested the lag tester on my NEC LCD2490WUXI computer monitor, and it did not work. I enabled HDCP, tried DVI-I, DVI-D, and the screen only displays 0MS. If I remember correctly, my computer monitor has an internal 2-frame buffer for processing.


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 Post subject: Re: Leo's exciting hand held LAG TEST device - out now !
PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2012 11:33 am 


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I hope to get around doing some work with this on new year's day.

One question I have: does the measured lag change with the contrast/backlight settings of the TV ? The photo diode seems to wait for a certain brightness peak and this might be reached earlier with a TV set set to higher backlight levels. Would be worth a try.


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 Post subject: Re: Leo's exciting hand held LAG TEST device - out now !
PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2012 11:49 am 


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Just be sure than there is no OSD on your screen, I was unable to measure a screen because of that.

For the lag difference, maybe the online test was wrong ?

I really hope that more people will post results :).
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 Post subject: Re: Leo's exciting hand held LAG TEST device - out now !
PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2012 5:44 pm 


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akumajo wrote:
For the lag difference, maybe the online test was wrong ?
As far as I know, most reviews test against 'lagless' LCDs or CRTs in the best case. This would explain why their results are a bit lower compared to testing against the input signal directly.
NWrain wrote:
I also tested the lag tester on my NEC LCD2490WUXI computer monitor, and it did not work. I enabled HDCP, tried DVI-I, DVI-D, and the screen only displays 0MS. If I remember correctly, my computer monitor has an internal 2-frame buffer for processing.
My previous desktop monitor (NEC LCD1990SXi) had ~34ms worst-case lag according to my VGA lag tester.


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 Post subject: Re: Leo's exciting hand held LAG TEST device - out now !
PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2012 6:07 pm 



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Reviews I read don't mention what input, or what method they use for testing lag. I'll see if brightness and or backlight has affects anything.

Setting the backlight, brightness, and contrast to 0, the lag tester could not make any readings.
At normal settings, brightness 50, contrast 90, backlight max, the lag tester works normally.
Setting the backlight, brightness, and contrast to 100, the lag tester readings were approximately 1ms faster than normal settings.

The instructions did not mention this, but does the kind of HDMI cable matter, such as 1.1, 1.2, 1.3 etc? I am using an old Xbox360 HDMI cable. I did not change any TV settings regarding dynamic range or color space.


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 Post subject: Re: Leo's exciting hand held LAG TEST device - out now !
PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 3:32 pm 


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marqs wrote:
LCDs have an average "base lag" of (1 / (rfr*2)) due to the way they work (8ms with 60Hz).
marqs wrote:
Yeah, pixel response time is separate from this. As LCDs refresh the whole screen at once, the delay between input signal and display refresh (assuming no processing lag) is almost one frame in the worst case (top-left corner) and near zero in the best case (bottom-right corner), 0.5 frames being the average delay.
Seems like this is not necessarily the case - I wonder where I originally read this. I tested today my new desktop monitor using multiple locations for the sensor, and the results indicate that pixels are refreshed sequentially at about the same speed as the input signal. However, I'm not sure if all flat screens update the pixels row-by-row from top-left to bottom-right. At least the faster ones should work like this.


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 Post subject: Re: Leo's exciting hand held LAG TEST device - out now !
PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 7:16 pm 


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It may be something like the comparison pictures TFT Central has been using for some years, between the "best case" and "worst case" images of ghosting on monitors between the left hand side (best case) and the right hand side (worst case). This seems to account for some timing difference between the two sides.

It does make sense that, as you said earlier, a display would have its best case display latency on the bottom right corner if you have to wait up to 1 frame for the full frame data in the refresh (since in a traditional video signal that would be the most recent), but I wonder if LCD pixel addressing actually would work in such a fashion because it would seem to cause an easily avoidable amount of lag. I think instead that the signals are multiplexed out (uhh unsure of the terminology here) to segments of the display and so what goes out, goes out.

But if you find similar lag between the left and right side of the display then perhaps the "ghosting" is just the result of overdrive being applied to various sets.

And if you're not finding lag on your monitor, perhaps ghosting isn't actually lag-related - or perhaps it doesn't use overdrive.

Hopefully something I've written here is on the right path.


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 Post subject: Re: Leo's exciting hand held LAG TEST device - out now !
PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 9:20 am 


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If anyone can test an Optoma GT750 projector with Leo device please post your results (supposed to have 0 input lag).
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 Post subject: Re: Leo's exciting hand held LAG TEST device - out now !
PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 3:31 pm 


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Today I added my Onkyo A/V Receiver in the chain and I discovered that input lag was added (+20 ms !). Even while using passthrough mode, gamer mode etc.

Dont had those A/V Receiver to the chain unless you can 100% disable any video processing.
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 Post subject: Re: Leo's exciting hand held LAG TEST device - out now !
PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 3:34 pm 


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I've been following this a lot some time ago and I think Onkyo is notorious for adding a certain minimum lag on all their AVRs. The funny reason behind this was/is that there's a minimum AUDIO lag and Onkyo just has to increase the video lag in order to make up for the audio processing time.


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 Post subject: Re: Leo's exciting hand held LAG TEST device - out now !
PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 3:37 pm 


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I didnt know about that and Onkyo.

This is an evil fix :twisted:
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 Post subject: Re: Leo's exciting hand held LAG TEST device - out now !
PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 1:15 am 


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Does the lag tester let you choose output refresh between 24/50/60p ?
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 Post subject: Re: Leo's exciting hand held LAG TEST device - out now !
PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 1:25 am 



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Only 60hz.


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 Post subject: Re: Leo's exciting hand held LAG TEST device - out now !
PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 7:08 am 


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More results with BenQ XL2420T (base input lag = 11,4~11,5 ms).

(LCD PC) BenQ XL2420T + HDFURY + GEFEN VGA/DVI : 28~29 ms (same results with any resolution, does it means that Gefen add 17,5~17,6 ms ?)
(LCD PC) BenQ XL2420T + XRGB-MINI : 28~29 ms (same results with every mode, again those 17,5~17,6 ms added :P )
(LCD PC) BenQ XL2420T + HDFURY + GEFEN VGA/DVI + XRGB-MINI : 45~46ms (make sense, 11,5 + 17,6 + 17,6 = 46,7)

Happy brainstorming :twisted:
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 Post subject: Re: Leo's exciting hand held LAG TEST device - out now !
PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 7:20 am 



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So does the Gefen lag 17ms just to convert VGA to DVI or are you doing scaling with it as well? I was under the impression that VGA to DVI/HDMI would be lagless.


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 Post subject: Re: Leo's exciting hand held LAG TEST device - out now !
PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 7:24 am 


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I dont understand my results, I really hope that people will share their results ... VGA to HDMI is (was ?) supposed to be lagless indeed.
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 Post subject: Re: Leo's exciting hand held LAG TEST device - out now !
PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 8:06 am 


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ikaruga007 wrote:
So does the Gefen lag 17ms just to convert VGA to DVI or are you doing scaling with it as well? I was under the impression that VGA to DVI/HDMI would be lagless.

I did my test @480p/720p/1080p and native, same results.
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 Post subject: Re: Leo's exciting hand held LAG TEST device - out now !
PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 5:23 am 


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akumajo wrote:
I dont understand my results, I really hope that people will share their results ... VGA to HDMI is (was ?) supposed to be lagless indeed.


Hello analogue, meet digital.

That means it's doing image processing.
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 Post subject: Re: Leo's exciting hand held LAG TEST device - out now !
PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 10:37 am 


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The Gefen has a frame buffer to do framerate conversion. Seeing it this way, it makes sense that 1 frame is buffered.


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 Post subject: Re: Leo's exciting hand held LAG TEST device - out now !
PostPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2013 1:07 pm 



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system11 wrote:
akumajo wrote:
I dont understand my results, I really hope that people will share their results ... VGA to HDMI is (was ?) supposed to be lagless indeed.


Hello analogue, meet digital.

That means it's doing image processing.

Yeah, but if HDFury can convert HDMI to VGA without lag then why can't it be done the other way around?

So is there ANY VGA to HDMI/DVI converter that doesn't lag? Otherwise, there goes my hope of using the XRGB 3 on my next TV without adding lag even BEFORE the signal enters the TV.


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 Post subject: Re: Leo's exciting hand held LAG TEST device - out now !
PostPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2013 1:54 pm 


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pretty much all of the converters are lag-free. The Gefen isn't a converter, it's a full blown scaler, including deinterlacing and framerate conversion.


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 Post subject: Re: Leo's exciting hand held LAG TEST device - out now !
PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 8:32 am 


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This is exciting, lets find the king of the displays!


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 Post subject: Re: Leo's exciting hand held LAG TEST device - out now !
PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 1:13 am 


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Anyone had the chance to do some lagtesting on the DVDO Edge yet? I'm interested to know if the audio delay slider is accurate.
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 Post subject: Re: Leo's exciting hand held LAG TEST device - out now !
PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 1:23 am 


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I received mine almost a month ago, of course I did some brief tests even though I was swamped in work.

The Ln46A950 has a horrible 56ms delay via HDMI, while in Game Mode, and 87ms when not. I did make some tests with the edge, and indeed the audio delay was fairly accurate, however I didn't take any notes. I can do so tomorrow, so I have solid numbers.

I was waiting for an HDFury 3 to do tests, since my set seems to have zero lag via D-DUB/VGA. It did arrive, but no matter the sync setting, my TV always says "mode not supported". I've used other devices via that input in 1080p, so I contacted the manufacturer and they collected my unit and send another one, and there was no success either. I even built a sync inverter myself, with a 74LS04 this weekend, and it didn't work with my TV either (it says it needs H+/V-).

The edge does recognize the signal from the Fury via RGBHV, I even tried my extron... neither helped. The edge always reports H-/V-, even with my sync inverter or any dipswitch configuration.

But I digress... I will measure it and come back later.
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 Post subject: Re: Leo's exciting hand held LAG TEST device - out now !
PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 2:19 am 


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Artemio wrote:
I did make some tests with the edge, and indeed the audio delay was fairly accurate, however I didn't take any notes. I can do so tomorrow, so I have solid numbers.


Fairly accurate is good enough for me. Some proper test results would be nice but no rush :)
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 Post subject: Re: Leo's exciting hand held LAG TEST device - out now !
PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 9:51 pm 


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I'll probably pick one of these up when Amazon get around to paying me for my e-book sales, I'd be very interested in Edge tests too, I'll also test my Optoma, Gefen and my Cambridge Audio amp which claims to pass through signals if you set it correctly. I'll also test my Sony TV see if it really does have 0-10ms of input lag.
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 Post subject: Re: Leo's exciting hand held LAG TEST device - out now !
PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 12:58 am 



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I used the Leo tester on my new Eizo Foris FS2333. Here are my results. The picture order is top bar, middle bar, and bottom bar. What does this mean? Do I have a nearly lagless monitor, or a monitor with 1 frame of lag?

Image
Image
Image


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 Post subject: Re: Leo's exciting hand held LAG TEST device - out now !
PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 1:04 am 


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now, that's interesting. On my displays the difference between upper and lower bar are just in the ms range.


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 Post subject: Re: Leo's exciting hand held LAG TEST device - out now !
PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 2:02 am 



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My HDTV is the same, the difference between the bars on the HDTV screen is very small.

I went back and changed the overdrive settings, but that didn't seem to do anything.
This is the monitor that Prad.de reviewed, and they found the monitor to have 0.8ms signal delay, and total overall average lag of 4.6ms.

http://www.prad.de/en/monitore/review/2 ... 9.html#Lag


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