shmups.system11.org

Shmups Forum
 
* FAQ    * Search
 * Register  * Login 
It is currently Tue Apr 25, 2017 8:18 pm View unanswered posts
View active topics



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 426 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ... 15  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: SNES/Famicon PCB Revisions and RGB Video
PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 8:40 pm 



Joined: 19 Mar 2010
Posts: 325
Hi,

I was interested in purchasing an SNES for use with the official Nintendo RGB scart cable and wanted to know what model revision produces the "best" video quality with RGB output?
Does the system itself need to be modded or just using an RGB cable provide RGB output? And does the "best" model also work with XRGB hardware (3/mini)
Have a few Japanese games I have collected (seems to be a simple mod to remove the two prongs) I want to play and some gameboy color games with the Super Game Boy.

I do in fact have a SNES1 somewhere, is there a way to tell the model (viewing the forum here, seems the SNES1 "1Chip" is liked a lot and that the SNES2 may produce better picture)?


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: SNES/Famicon PCB Revisions and RGB Video
PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 9:23 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 10300
Location: Germany
The unit itself does not need any mod, unless it's a SFC jr. / SNES2.

Video quality on the 1-chip designs is considerably better than on most older revisions, but you likely get some vertical banding in exchange. Depending on your display or video processor you might prefer an older unit without banding over a newer one.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: SNES/Famicon PCB Revisions and RGB Video
PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 9:29 pm 



Joined: 19 Mar 2010
Posts: 325
How is the picture quality on the 1-chip vs SFC jr. / SNES2?

Quote:
Depending on your display or video processor you might prefer an older unit without banding over a newer one.


You mean a non 1-chip board?


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: SNES/Famicon PCB Revisions and RGB Video
PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 10:21 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 10300
Location: Germany
Quote:
How is the picture quality on the 1-chip vs SFC jr. / SNES2?

identical I think - that is unless somebody shows me a SFC jr with RGB mod that doesn't have any banding.

Quote:
You mean a non 1-chip board?

for example, if you use a Framemeister with 1080p output and without scanlines and a sharpness setting of 1, a non-1-chip has a perfectly fine picture.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: SNES/Famicon PCB Revisions and RGB Video
PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 10:43 pm 



Joined: 19 Mar 2010
Posts: 325
I have my SNES here, is there any way to tell by looking at serial numbers (etc) what model the pcb is?

Quote:
for example, if you use a Framemeister with 1080p output and without scanlines and a sharpness setting of 1, a non-1-chip has a perfectly fine picture.


And a 1-chip with similar settings would have banding then?


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: SNES/Famicon PCB Revisions and RGB Video
PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 11:47 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 10300
Location: Germany
Just check the database with known serials:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub ... utput=html
and see where yours matches in....

Quote:
And a 1-chip with similar settings would have banding then?

yes, but on the other hand a 1-chip would result in a sharper image when used with lower resolutions, with scanlines and without boosting the sharpness setting.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: SNES/Famicon PCB Revisions and RGB Video
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 12:02 am 



Joined: 19 Mar 2010
Posts: 325
Mine is not listed. It is: UN14671571
Console also says: Model No. SNS-001

On a side note, do you know if the official Nintendo SNES/SFC RGB Scart cable would work with the GameCube as well?


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: SNES/Famicon PCB Revisions and RGB Video
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 12:16 am 


User avatar

Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 10300
Location: Germany
Quote:
Mine is not listed. It is: UN14671571
Console also says: Model No. SNS-001

I know that it's not listed, since you didn't add it. CPU-01 model I guess.

Quote:
On a side note, do you know if the official Nintendo SNES/SFC RGB Scart cable would work with the GameCube as well?

on the PAL cubes, yes. On NTSC ones, no.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: SNES/Famicon PCB Revisions and RGB Video
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 12:47 am 



Joined: 19 Mar 2010
Posts: 325
So a CPU-01 would mean it is a non-banding two chip board then?

And you are saying an NTSC SFC RGB Scart cable would work on a PAL gamecube but not an NSTC one?


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: SNES/Famicon PCB Revisions and RGB Video
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 4:19 am 


User avatar

Joined: 05 Nov 2009
Posts: 1400
Seraphic wrote:
So a CPU-01 would mean it is a non-banding two chip board then?


All SNES models can display a vertical band through the middle of the screen. The severity just depends upon what it's connected to, how it's adjusted, and the particular game you're playing. e.g. FFIII/IV title intro shows the issue clearly. There's been some discussion that seems to indicate that the ROHM sourced RGB encoders Nintendo used in all of the SNES revisions cause this issue.

Seraphic wrote:
And you are saying an NTSC SFC RGB Scart cable would work on a PAL gamecube but not an NSTC one?


NTSC Gamecube systems do not output RGB on the SNES connector. You have to use a modded component cable to get RGB output from a NTSC Gamecube.
http://gamesx.com/wiki/doku.php?id=av:gamecube_rgb


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: SNES/Famicon PCB Revisions and RGB Video
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 10:12 am 


User avatar

Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 10300
Location: Germany
Quote:
All SNES models can display a vertical band through the middle of the screen.

I have yet to see a launch model with visible banding. Are you sure about this ?


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: SNES/Famicon PCB Revisions and RGB Video
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 10:57 am 



Joined: 19 Mar 2010
Posts: 325
RGB32E wrote:
NTSC Gamecube systems do not output RGB on the SNES connector. You have to use a modded component cable to get RGB output from a NTSC Gamecube.
http://gamesx.com/wiki/doku.php?id=av:gamecube_rgb


Prices for GameCube component cables run about $100 on ebay. Would a GameCube D-Terminal cable work too?
Does the GameCube Digital AV port pass audio? It is just component cable lacks the physical rca audio plugs?
If so, in theory, couldn't RCA audio plugs be add from a composite cable during this modification?
Also, does this cable modification support progressive 480p? Or limited to progressive 240p?
Last, know anyone what could do the modification for a nominal fee?


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: SNES/Famicon PCB Revisions and RGB Video
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 1:02 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 10300
Location: Germany
Quality on Component and D-Terminal is the same.

The digital AV port does not carry audio. For audio you use a standard Nintendo cable from the analogue output.

The Cube does not output 240p. It does 480i through composite, s-video and RGB (on euro models) and it does 480p on component and d-terminal.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: SNES/Famicon PCB Revisions and RGB Video
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 5:00 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 05 Nov 2009
Posts: 1400
Fudoh wrote:
Quote:
All SNES models can display a vertical band through the middle of the screen.

I have yet to see a launch model with visible banding. Are you sure about this ?


Perhaps you've found an exception with a low S/N SFC? My UN10007xxx (launch enough :P ) has about the same amount of vertical bar as my 1-CHIP01 has, but has more noise and a darker picture to begin with. The UN10007xxx with sharpness set to 1 doesn't equal that of a 1chip, but is still reasonable.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: SNES/Famicon PCB Revisions and RGB Video
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 5:12 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 10300
Location: Germany
That's interesting - thanks for the update!

I can certainly confirm that all SFC launch models (I had nearly a dozen over the years) are all completely banding-free.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: SNES/Famicon PCB Revisions and RGB Video
PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 12:44 am 



Joined: 19 Mar 2010
Posts: 325
Fudoh wrote:
Quality on Component and D-Terminal is the same.


Yes, I know. But can the RGB mod be done to both cables? If one turns out to be cheaper.

Fudoh wrote:
The Cube does not output 240p. It does 480i through composite, s-video and RGB (on euro models) and it does 480p on component and d-terminal.


So the RGB mod to the component cable that RGB32E posted does not support 480p at all?


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: SNES/Famicon PCB Revisions and RGB Video
PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 1:27 am 


User avatar

Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 10300
Location: Germany
Quote:
Yes, I know. But can the RGB mod be done to both cables? If one turns out to be cheaper.

D-Terminal is much easier to use, because you have more wires to work with. On the other hand it would be a shame to use any of those to make a RGB cable out of it. What for anyway ? D-Terminal to VGA works great. You should probably consider a more flexible mod to the cable, where you can switch between RGBs and RGBHV to utilize both, 15khz RGB and 31khz VGA.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: SNES/Famicon PCB Revisions and RGB Video
PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 1:58 am 



Joined: 19 Mar 2010
Posts: 325
Fudoh wrote:
D-Terminal is much easier to use, because you have more wires to work with. On the other hand it would be a shame to use any of those to make a RGB cable out of it. What for anyway ? D-Terminal to VGA works great. You should probably consider a more flexible mod to the cable, where you can switch between RGBs and RGBHV to utilize both, 15khz RGB and 31khz VGA.


Do you mean D-Terminal to VGA works great with a transcoder? What more flexible mod are you thinking of?

As you know D-Terminal/Component is YPbPr and the RGB mod allows for a pure RGB signal.
However, if it is really correct that an RGB modded GameCube component/d-terminal cable can not pass progressive what is the point indeed.
If you are stuck with an no progressive interlaced picture (480i), does not seem worth it at all.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: SNES/Famicon PCB Revisions and RGB Video
PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 2:22 am 


User avatar

Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 10300
Location: Germany
Quote:
Do you mean D-Terminal to VGA works great with a transcoder?

no, I meant a direct VGA connection. The IC which can be found in the component and D-Terminal can be set to RGB or component. With the cube set to 480p, the Chip outputs RGBHV (VGA) then.

Quote:
If you are stuck with an no progressive interlaced picture (480i), does not seem worth it at all.

That's what I meant. But if you use a D-Terminal cable, replace the D-Terminal connector with a VGA header and add a switch which allow to to chose between RGBs and RGBHV, then the cable will output both 480i and 480p.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: SNES/Famicon PCB Revisions and RGB Video
PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 12:43 pm 



Joined: 19 Mar 2010
Posts: 325
Fudoh wrote:
That's what I meant. But if you use a D-Terminal cable, replace the D-Terminal connector with a VGA header and add a switch which allow to to chose between RGBs and RGBHV, then the cable will output both 480i and 480p.


Do you know someone that could do such a modification?

Was looking on ebay and someone is selling a custom Gamecube VGA Cable for the low, low price of $250 :shock:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Gamecube-VGA-Ca ... 4d06a73c83


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: SNES/Famicon PCB Revisions and RGB Video
PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 12:48 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 10300
Location: Germany
Over here Moosmann can do it. Maybe RGB32E in the US ? It's easy.

Quote:
Was looking on ebay and someone is selling a custom Gamecube VGA Cable

not even a nice looking mod. When you use a D-Terminal cable you can keep the cable's header and just replace the D-Terminal connector with a HD15 one.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: SNES/Famicon PCB Revisions and RGB Video
PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 7:44 pm 



Joined: 26 Jan 2005
Posts: 7456
With that same type of GCN JPN D-Terminal to VGA output mod, it's great to be able to play those GBA games with a GBA player device and display it on an arcade low-res 15kHz monitor with a uVC setup...easy as pie. The GBA player combined with the GCN, is capable of outputting in 480p quite easily. The only issue is that the GBA player screen border can't be removed whatsoever...a small but minor issue at best. Resize the arcade monitor's picture size to your liking & you're good to go.

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: SNES/Famicon PCB Revisions and RGB Video
PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 11:03 am 



Joined: 19 Mar 2010
Posts: 325
Fudoh wrote:
When you use a D-Terminal cable you can keep the cable's header and just replace the D-Terminal connector with a HD15 one.


How would just replacing the D-Terminal connector with a HD15 one change the video output though?
Wouldn't the cable still be outputting ypbpr and not rgb?

Also, have any information about the official sony PlayStation 2 VGA cable that came with the Linux kit?
Will it work for 240p/480p games or does it only work with Linux?


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: SNES/Famicon PCB Revisions and RGB Video
PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 11:25 am 


User avatar

Joined: 26 Jan 2005
Posts: 2533
Location: DC Area
Seraphic wrote:
How would just replacing the D-Terminal connector with a HD15 one change the video output though?
Wouldn't the cable still be outputting ypbpr and not rgb?


Fudoh wrote:
The IC which can be found in the component and D-Terminal can be set to RGB or component. With the cube set to 480p, the Chip outputs RGBHV (VGA) then.
_________________
Image


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: SNES/Famicon PCB Revisions and RGB Video
PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 3:35 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 10300
Location: Germany
right, you have to open the Gamecube connector of the cable and configure the IC to output. RGB

Quote:
Also, have any information about the official sony PlayStation 2 VGA cable that came with the Linux kit?
Will it work for 240p/480p games or does it only work with Linux?

The cable does nothing. It's just a component cable with a HD15 header. If works with any signal as long as your monitor will support it. For 480p games it does output RGsB (Sync on Green). For 15khz games you have it will output either RGBs or Component, depending on your PS2 config.

If you grab a component cable and add a RCA to HD15 adapter on front you got the same thing.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: SNES/Famicon PCB Revisions and RGB Video
PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 1:56 pm 



Joined: 05 Dec 2011
Posts: 239
Where are you guys finding Gamecube D-terminal cables for sale?
_________________
My Analog A/V setup: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=43992

Ultimate Shmup Stick! JLF mod: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=41451


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: SNES/Famicon PCB Revisions and RGB Video
PostPosted: Sun Dec 23, 2012 3:17 pm 



Joined: 19 Mar 2010
Posts: 325
With a GameCube, if you have a modified D-Terminal cable for progressive RGB output using VGA, along with NES/SNES emulators setup, would you be able to essentially achieve the same (if not better) picture quality then when using actual NES/SNES hardware with RGB modification/cable?


Last edited by Seraphic on Sun Dec 23, 2012 3:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: SNES/Famicon PCB Revisions and RGB Video
PostPosted: Sun Dec 23, 2012 3:18 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 10300
Location: Germany
No,

the Cube's 480p quality is rather mediocre.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: SNES/Famicon PCB Revisions and RGB Video
PostPosted: Sun Dec 23, 2012 3:25 pm 



Joined: 19 Mar 2010
Posts: 325
Fudoh wrote:
No,

the Cube's 480p quality is rather mediocre.


That's a shame. It wouldn't look as good even in RGB mode?


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: SNES/Famicon PCB Revisions and RGB Video
PostPosted: Sun Dec 23, 2012 3:55 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 10300
Location: Germany
In RGB you'd be looking at 480i. Never bothered with that and neither should you (for 240p content).


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 426 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ... 15  Next

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot], FinalBaton, Google [Bot], MetalMilitia, Strawberts, tjstogy, Xer Xian and 15 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Space Pilot 3K template by Jakob Persson
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group