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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Sun Jul 02, 2017 8:42 am 


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Joined: 11 May 2015
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Yeah the image has a real nice glowy feel to it.


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Mon Jul 03, 2017 10:25 pm 


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Sometime ago I bumped into a non-tateable CRT TV (the JVC Videosphere) and posted it here for the lulz. Now I've found the polar opposite - a CRT monitor that is natively TATE-only!

No kidding: Image

It's a DataRay DR120. As you can guess from the name, this was intended for medical applications. It certainly hosts a great tube and it's capable of very high resolutions.. this now sits right behind the FW900 on my "most wanted CRTs" list :mrgreen:

Yeah, I know I'll never get either of them ^^


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Tue Jul 04, 2017 11:23 am 


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Einzelherz wrote:
I received my JVC TM-H1950CG today and it was packed well. It was also packed upside down :|

The screen will not display a signal sent to it (audio comes out of the speaker, pitifully) nor the menu, which was shown as working in the auction. I'm more than a little disappointed.

I know we have a few users on here with these. Has anyone encountered this? I'm not about to start fiddling with anything (nor do I have the time to for the next couple of weeks) so if anyone has any input, I'd be thrilled to hear it.

Thanks in advance.


I haven't had much time to look at it and still won't for another week, but I've got this tiny bit of extra info.

The degauss seems to click when it's powered on. The screen does not appear to be getting voltage because it doesn't static up at all.


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Tue Jul 04, 2017 3:47 pm 



Joined: 12 May 2013
Posts: 384
Xer Xian wrote:
I swear half of the VGA monitors that are now in the hands of retrogamers are LaCie Electron's - I myself have two of them now :lol:

However, I didn't find them any better than a cheaper (back then, now they are all cheap) slot mask by LG. I think it's safe to say that any properly working VGA monitor paired with a line-doubler is practically as good as any Sony PVM (if not better), which makes them incredible value today.

I finally managed to get my hands on an Electron IV (22") for free recently :D.

Odd question but, how much noise does yours make when it cycles on (cold, not standby)?


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Tue Jul 04, 2017 5:13 pm 


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Lord of Pirates wrote:
Odd question but, how much noise does yours make when it cycles on (cold, not standby)?

My Electron IV is incredibly noisy on start up (edit: by that, I mean when powered on by pressing the button). Such a loud buzz is clearly not meant to be, and is probably due to some loose internal component that vibrates every time the monitor is degaussed. I'll probably open it up and investigate someday. On the contrary, the other one I've got (Electron III) makes a barely audible hum.

Congrats on the freebie btw :) I had a serious CRT monitor thirst back when I paid €50 for the first one! Kinda counterbalanced with the €10 disbursement for the second one ^^


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2017 3:42 pm 



Joined: 12 May 2013
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Xer Xian wrote:
Lord of Pirates wrote:
Odd question but, how much noise does yours make when it cycles on (cold, not standby)?

My Electron IV is incredibly noisy on start up (edit: by that, I mean when powered on by pressing the button). Such a loud buzz is clearly not meant to be, and is probably due to some loose internal component that vibrates every time the monitor is degaussed. I'll probably open it up and investigate someday. On the contrary, the other one I've got (Electron III) makes a barely audible hum.

Congrats on the freebie btw :) I had a serious CRT monitor thirst back when I paid €50 for the first one! Kinda counterbalanced with the €10 disbursement for the second one ^^

Good to know it's not just mine. I presume it's degaussing during power on but it's a pretty noisy whooshing hum before it settles. From standby makes about as much noise as I'm used to and operation is pretty much silent.

I was pretty stoked when I saw it available. Next step is getting a '98 era PC up and running :).


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2017 7:51 pm 


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Wow, a free Electron and a 22" one to boot, congrats. My Electron IV is the same, noisy when turning on from cold.


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2017 9:21 pm 



Joined: 18 Oct 2015
Posts: 310
Couple of quick photos of my 20G1E since I fired it up for an hour today :mrgreen:

Image

Image


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2017 10:29 pm 


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AndehX wrote:
Couple of quick photos of my 20G1E since I fired it up for an hour today :mrgreen:

Image

Image


That looks incredible. That is a great Sony
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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Thu Jul 06, 2017 7:22 am 


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Xer Xian wrote:
a CRT monitor that is natively TATE-only!


that looks beautiful. (now I want one!)

Gunstar wrote:
Wow, a free Electron and a 22" one to boot, congrats. My Electron IV is the same, noisy when turning on from cold.


Mine has been getting less noisy the more I use it. but it feels like my crt's get kinda loud if I leave them alone for a few weeks. might just be me.


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2017 4:39 pm 


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Blair wrote:
Xer Xian wrote:
a CRT monitor that is natively TATE-only!


that looks beautiful. (now I want one!)

That monitor is really an odd beast. I mean, besides being TATE it's capable of 2560 x 2048, which is more than what the FW900 can do (but I doubt it can actually resolve that much resolution). I also wonder if it scans from the top-bottom or from the bottom-up - in the first case, it would be useless for any non-medical applications. But we'll probably never know anyway.


Today my JVC DT-V1710CG finally showed up. I was kind of anxious since I bought it literally "off eBay", so without buyer's protection. The seller (a photographer that seldom used the monitor for color correction) was however very nice and I felt it could be trusted. Make no mistake, the monitor appears to be in like-new conditions - it came with its original box and contents, looks flawless and has very low hours:

Image

It was also manufactured in July 2008! I didn't think they were still making CRTs at that time. I've been chasing a high-TVL multi-sync TV CRT for a while now, and after finding this I patiently waited a few more months for the seller to lower the price to a figure I was more comfortable with (it was originally listed at €399, I got it for €250 shipped). So you can imagine the hype I had to put this baby to the test.. and the massive disappointment when I got a completely broken image, that rolls over and eventually goes out of sync! I can't believe the monitor is malfunctioning so badly, it must be the vga/hd-15 to RGBHV cable I just bought from eBay - it was allegedly manufactured by Extron, but after close inspection it's probably a useless fake (either that or it has the Ver/Hor Sync label inverted, which I don't want to test on this monitor). I also have 3 RCA to BNC cables, which would be good for component, but looks like one of them is useless, so I'm left with either no red or blue. :( So I've ordered a SCART to BNC breakout, and now for another week or more of waiting.. :roll:


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2017 4:51 pm 


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Xer Xian wrote:
It's a DataRay DR120. As you can guess from the name, this was intended for medical applications. It certainly hosts a great tube and it's capable of very high resolutions.. this now sits right behind the FW900 on my "most wanted CRTs" list

It's a grayscale-only display though.


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2017 4:53 pm 


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Lolol I didn't realize that.. so it's jolly good for Pong consoles and the like - but only if you de-TATE it :mrgreen:

Edit: btw that may explain how it can get away with those crazy resolutions - since it doesn't do colors, it probably doesn't have a mask either, so it's only limited by the beam size I guess..


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2017 6:31 pm 



Joined: 18 May 2017
Posts: 7
Location: Montpellier, FRANCE
Xer Xian wrote:
Today my JVC DT-V1710CG finally showed up. I was kind of anxious since I bought it literally "off eBay", so without buyer's protection. The seller (a photographer that seldom used the monitor for color correction) was however very nice and I felt it could be trusted. Make no mistake, the monitor appears to be in like-new conditions - it came with its original box and contents, looks flawless and has very low hours:


Nice score , he also have the rgb card (see in the box the rgb card box) and only 1100-1199 hours.
One of my 17 is also from 2008 ( sept).

Its better to wait for your scart cable before do more test.

remove the 16:9 mask to check if there is no mark on screen (where the mask touch the screen).
I have the service manual if you want it.


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2017 8:34 pm 


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Xer Xian wrote:
the massive disappointment when I got a completely broken image, that rolls over and eventually goes out of sync! I can't believe the monitor is malfunctioning so badly


Did you set the sync mode to external? if not go to the FUNCTION SETTING menu (the same screen where you checked the operation hours) and change the SYNC SELECT to EXT.
I had a similar problem with mine and that fixed it.


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2017 10:03 pm 


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Wow, two replies from two owners of DT-V17/19's in half a day, I love this forum :)

lewolfeur wrote:
remove the 16:9 mask to check if there is no mark on screen (where the mask touch the screen).
I have the service manual if you want it.

Well, I hope I'll never need the service manual, but it'd be nice to have anyway.. feel free to post a link here or shoot me a PM. Thanks! ^^
And yes, no marks at all on the screen - the monitor is immaculate, it even had a protective sleeve for the front buttons panel still on :) (I peeled it off)

Sgt.Wafer wrote:
Did you set the sync mode to external? if not go to the FUNCTION SETTING menu (the same screen where you checked the operation hours) and change the SYNC SELECT to EXT.
I had a similar problem with mine and that fixed it.

Now that is very interesting, thanks for pointing it out! I'll try it out as soon as I can (sadly I won't be home for the weekend). I did a few more tests earlier today, and the vga to bnc cable actually turned out to be fine, so I hope that'll solve the issue. Otherwise I'll probably have to conclude that the input card is damaged - in fact I tried it on my TM-H150CG with a 240p Dreamcast game (and a Kramer splitter in-between.. I don't have a VGA box) and i didn't get anything on-screen. :| I mean, it should take 240p/480i RGBHV just fine on an SD monitor.. or is the splitter the one to blame? Duh, I'll still have to wait for the scart bnc breakout to reach a conclusion.


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Sat Jul 08, 2017 4:00 am 



Joined: 18 Mar 2017
Posts: 11
Hey guys,

When I am using my PVM 20M2MDU, no matter whether it's RGB or component, and with different game consoles- I've noticed that the image will intermittently "grow or shrink," like a jitter. It's pretty subtle, but definitely noticeable, and it's like 0.2 seconds at a time- very quick. It appears to me to be mostly a vertical grow/shrink, or almost like the image will quickly "pop." I haven't noticed this problem on my other PVM, which is plugged into the same surge protector.

I tried to get a video with my cell phone, but it happens so randomly and the effect is hard to capture. I've noticed that in a game like Resident evil, moving from fixed camera angle to fixed camera angle seems to induce it, but that's not consistent and could just be coincidental.

Anybody else experience this or have an idea what it could be?


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Sat Jul 08, 2017 7:43 am 



Joined: 18 May 2017
Posts: 7
Location: Montpellier, FRANCE
Xer Xian wrote:
And yes, no marks at all on the screen - the monitor is immaculate, it even had a protective sleeve for the front buttons panel still on :) (I peeled it off)

here one, i have many who have these mark from mask :x
Image

For sync was thinking you already have changed it to ext and tested :mrgreen: . (but in your screen is set to "int")


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Sat Jul 08, 2017 9:37 am 



Joined: 18 Oct 2015
Posts: 310
Xer Xian wrote:
I had to put this baby to the test.. and the massive disappointment when I got a completely broken image, that rolls over and eventually goes out of sync! I can't believe the monitor is malfunctioning so badly

I can clearly see in your photo that you have sync set to "int" which is internal sync. This is what you would use with Component or RGsB. for RGBS/RGBHV you need to set this to "ext" as they uses external cables for sync.


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Sat Jul 08, 2017 11:38 am 


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My JVC DT-V19 is also from 2008. Could be some of the last BVMs made :o Nice one Xer Xian, the condition looks fantastic! My one came without the JVC logo pin so I've bought a replacement one from a JVC CD player that fits just about right even though is smaller. I'm heading downstairs to super glue it now... :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Sat Jul 08, 2017 11:45 am 


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NYI wrote:
Hey guys,

When I am using my PVM 20M2MDU, no matter whether it's RGB or component, and with different game consoles- I've noticed that the image will intermittently "grow or shrink," like a jitter. It's pretty subtle, but definitely noticeable, and it's like 0.2 seconds at a time- very quick. It appears to me to be mostly a vertical grow/shrink, or almost like the image will quickly "pop." I haven't noticed this problem on my other PVM, which is plugged into the same surge protector.

I tried to get a video with my cell phone, but it happens so randomly and the effect is hard to capture. I've noticed that in a game like Resident evil, moving from fixed camera angle to fixed camera angle seems to induce it, but that's not consistent and could just be coincidental.

Anybody else experience this or have an idea what it could be?


This sounds a bit like bloom which iirc means your capacitors are going. I notice it a lot moving to the menu screen in final fantasy games because the screen goes blank then comes back. Everything will be slightly larger and then recede a little.


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Sat Jul 08, 2017 1:11 pm 



Joined: 18 Mar 2017
Posts: 11
Einzelherz wrote:
NYI wrote:
Hey guys,

When I am using my PVM 20M2MDU, no matter whether it's RGB or component, and with different game consoles- I've noticed that the image will intermittently "grow or shrink," like a jitter. It's pretty subtle, but definitely noticeable, and it's like 0.2 seconds at a time- very quick. It appears to me to be mostly a vertical grow/shrink, or almost like the image will quickly "pop." I haven't noticed this problem on my other PVM, which is plugged into the same surge protector.

I tried to get a video with my cell phone, but it happens so randomly and the effect is hard to capture. I've noticed that in a game like Resident evil, moving from fixed camera angle to fixed camera angle seems to induce it, but that's not consistent and could just be coincidental.

Anybody else experience this or have an idea what it could be?


This sounds a bit like bloom which iirc means your capacitors are going. I notice it a lot moving to the menu screen in final fantasy games because the screen goes blank then comes back. Everything will be slightly larger and then recede a little.


That's exactly right! I think it is more noticeable when going blank and then coming back, too - which is consistent with when there are screen changes in the games I'm playing.


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Sat Jul 08, 2017 1:30 pm 


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Some blooming is normal, if it's not too distracting I'd live with it. If you'd like to do something about it, you can find some input here: https://www.repairfaq.org/samnew/tvfaq/tvbloom.htm

AndehX wrote:
I can clearly see in your photo that you have sync set to "int" which is internal sync. This is what you would use with Component or RGsB. for RGBS/RGBHV you need to set this to "ext" as they uses external cables for sync.

I see, that makes sense. Thanks for elaborating on that! Component was in fact perfectly rendered on screen (apart from a missing color channel due to a bad cable). I can't wait to try it out tomorrow..

werk91 wrote:
My JVC DT-V19 is also from 2008. Could be some of the last BVMs made :o Nice one Xer Xian, the condition looks fantastic! My one came without the JVC logo pin so I've bought a replacement one from a JVC CD player that fits just about right even though is smaller. I'm heading downstairs to super glue it now... :lol:

Thanks werk91 ^^ btw I love how you actively looked for a replacement logo, that's some dedication :)


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Sat Jul 08, 2017 1:42 pm 



Joined: 18 Mar 2017
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Xer Xian wrote:
Some blooming is normal, if it's not too distracting I'd live with it. If you'd like to do something about it, you can find some input here: https://www.repairfaq.org/samnew/tvfaq/tvbloom.htm

AndehX wrote:
I can clearly see in your photo that you have sync set to "int" which is internal sync. This is what you would use with Component or RGsB. for RGBS/RGBHV you need to set this to "ext" as they uses external cables for sync.

I see, that makes sense. Thanks for elaborating on that! Component was in fact perfectly rendered on screen (apart from a missing color channel due to a bad cable). I can't wait to try it out tomorrow..

werk91 wrote:
My JVC DT-V19 is also from 2008. Could be some of the last BVMs made :o Nice one Xer Xian, the condition looks fantastic! My one came without the JVC logo pin so I've bought a replacement one from a JVC CD player that fits just about right even though is smaller. I'm heading downstairs to super glue it now... :lol:

Thanks werk91 ^^ btw I love how you actively looked for a replacement logo, that's some dedication :)


So does blooming include my problem though, i.e., when the screen might be static and then quickly "pop" or stretch up and down quickly? Because it does happen very quickly and then goes back to normal size.


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Sat Jul 08, 2017 2:03 pm 


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You mean like it's jumping its size but only in the h or v direction?


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Sat Jul 08, 2017 2:08 pm 


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AndehX wrote:
So does blooming include my problem though, i.e., when the screen might be static and then quickly "pop" or stretch up and down quickly? Because it does happen very quickly and then goes back to normal size.

If the expansion/shrinkage is correlated with the picture brightness, then yes. But if it's independent of that, then it falls more into what in that page is called a "breathing" problem. I've never witnessed the latter, but there's some bloom in my old Sony KV29LS60E - honestly I've never done anything to address it, along with the other issues it is plagued with (bad geometry, poor focus, unstable image, and more). It has the original sin of having a 100Hz refresh rate so I've kinda let it rot as secondary screen for my parents' second home :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Sat Jul 08, 2017 2:09 pm 



Joined: 18 Mar 2017
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Einzelherz wrote:
You mean like it's jumping its size but only in the h or v direction?


Yup. It's in the v direction, as far as I can gather. It grows and shrinks very quickly, like a "pop." Sometimes it'll happen a few times in a row.

Xer Xian wrote:
AndehX wrote:
So does blooming include my problem though, i.e., when the screen might be static and then quickly "pop" or stretch up and down quickly? Because it does happen very quickly and then goes back to normal size.

If the expansion/shrinkage is correlated with the picture brightness, then yes. But if it's independent of that, then it falls more into what in that page is called a "breathing" problem. I've never witnessed the latter, but there's some bloom in my old Sony KV29LS60E - honestly I've never done anything to address it, along with the other issues it is plagued with (bad geometry, poor focus, unstable image, and more). It has the original sin of having a 100Hz refresh rate so I've kinda let it rot as secondary screen for my parents' second home :lol:


Yeah, it sounds to me like maybe I have a "breathing" problem. 100hz refresh? That must be interesting. I don't know if I've seen one.


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Sat Jul 08, 2017 4:35 pm 


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Image


Image


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Sat Jul 08, 2017 7:13 pm 


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Xer Xian wrote:
it even had a protective sleeve for the front buttons panel still on :) (I peeled it off)


I bought mine NOS (000 hours) and it didn't come with anything on the panel. It was manufactured on March 2008.
Maybe it was installed by the previous owner?


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Sat Jul 08, 2017 9:22 pm 


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Nice shots FinalBaton! What version of splatter house is that?


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