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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 8:28 am 


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hyrulebr wrote:
I didn't like (and understood) Why the Ikegami DOES NOT support 480p


Actually, they're perfectly capable of taking and displaying 480p if you don't mind opening the monitor up to flick a switch or so(and then adjusting the screen for said resolution).

https://www.reddit.com/r/crtgaming/comments/5ou7ja/guide_to_enabling_480p_on_the_ikegami_htm_series/
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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 12:58 pm 


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dak1 wrote:
hyrulebr wrote:
Brazilian


Nice to see pro crt action from Brasil! Parabens!


Yeah, Obrigado! 18 months ago when I started to see words like "BVM" and "PVM" I thought I would not find it in Brazil and that bringing from another country would be impossible due to shipping costs and Brazilian customs.

Well, the costs remain the same but at least I found monitors here... My only complaim is to not know about it before: I found a past auction In Mercado Livre (Brazilian Ebay) of a X68 board that was sold for around 40 dollars :cry:


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 4:12 pm 


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Location: Bellingham, WA
FinalBaton wrote:
Eh. I just found a neat trick. For people who have pro CRT monitors, you can get that awfully-dark(but otherwise excellent) port of Daimakaimura on Playstation (from the Capcom Generations 2 release) to have just the right level of brightness without messing with your monitor's brightness and contrast settings

Just flick the impedance switch near the RGB channel were your console is plugged to "high", while having nothing connected to the output of that channel. The brightness levels for the game then become just right :P

Here's how the game normally looks on my monitor
Image

And here's how it looks with the trick I'm talking about
Image

Maybe tweaking the monitor's brightness works just as good (then again, maybe not. maybe the brightness setting works in a diferrent way and cannot achieve the same result), but for me it proved extremely useful because I don't want to ever change my brightness and contrast settings. They're in the menu and are visualized as a bar with no numeric values so I couldn't dial them back quickly as they were. And I spent so much time tweaking the picture, I'd have a mental breakdown if I were to have to adjust the monitor again, haha

Also, this trick doesn't work for the other 2 games on the disc (makaimura and Chomakaimura). Those 2 become too bright. But Daimakaimura? It looks ace now, just perfect.


I have those switches that say "75" or "high". But i have one over each BNC for R G B H & V. Which one should I flip to high.

Should I flip them all?
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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 7:15 pm 


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Location: Up on the mountains, drifting with the 86
Yes Hoagtech try flipping all of them to "high"

Cool so you got that game too then 8)


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Tue May 02, 2017 3:44 pm 



Joined: 16 Feb 2009
Posts: 38
Location: Albion
Hi guys!

I have question:

It´s possible to daisy chain a Sony BVM-20F1E to a Pioneer PDP-V402EU, and get image with the first one in standby?

I want to splt the RGB signal from a Bandridge to the Pioneer, without having to buy another switch with two outputs.

Thanks!


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Tue May 02, 2017 4:41 pm 


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Midnight Milkshake wrote:
Hi guys!

I have question:

It´s possible to daisy chain a Sony BVM-20F1E to a Pioneer PDP-V402EU, and get image with the first one in standby?

I want to splt the RGB signal from a Bandridge to the Pioneer, without having to buy another switch with two outputs.

Thanks!


On all of my monitors the passthrough is passive so any or all can be on and display the signal.


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2017 4:34 pm 


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Had to pull out of buying a Sony KX20-PS1 earlier today. In perfect picture and cosmetic condition. Collection and everything sorted until a quick Google search proved that the Scart at the back doesn't accept RGB and the special 35 pin RGB connector is impossible to find cable for. Also didn't see any evidence of anyone successfully soldering one themselves despite the pinout diagram being available. Usually I can understand most of Sony's design decisions but that "Peritel" Scart port just seems incredibly dumb :?


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2017 5:22 pm 


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Location: Up on the mountains, drifting with the 86
Aww that sucks werk :(

I wonder if the 34 pin connector is the same they used here on the KV-xxXBR (the official cable for that has the 34 pin on one end, and a dsub9 on the other)

Also assuming that it's the same as the KV-xxXBR : you could buy a floppy drive cable and rewire just one end to a SCART socket (the other end would fit on the monitor)? Some people have done it for the KV-XXXBR, at least


Last edited by FinalBaton on Wed May 03, 2017 5:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2017 5:31 pm 


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I almost thought I've found the perfect screen for my consoles :x The seller was even including a set of bookshelf speakers that looked nice with it :lol:
It looks like exactly the same connector yes. I saw that floppy cable is needed but it wasn't going to be cheap after adding fuel costs and in case I couldn't get it to work I would've been severely cash drained with not much in return. What made me give up is this topic: http://www.racketboy.com/forum/viewtopi ... 17&t=42828

Looking on ebay now they have either not relisted it yet or someone else has already snagged it. I think in any case I have picked a bad time to be shopping for a PVM as my 9" Sony that I picked for £45 with delivery just two months ago now has multiple listings for £100/130... :shock:


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2017 5:34 pm 


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Location: Up on the mountains, drifting with the 86
Yes PVM market is crazy right now :shock:

The PVM-1354Q I picked up last year for $60 now sells regularly for $200 :shock:



I still wonder if it's possible or not to mod a floppy drive cable for those consumer Sony monitors :?: It would be cool to have a definitive answer

I passed the opportunity myself on a KV-20XBR a couple months ago. It was dirt cheap... but I'm lazy, lol.
Plus I already have a good RGB monitor so I thought I'd leave it to someone else


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2017 5:42 pm 


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Kinda makes me consider just finding a decent 4:3 consumer Trinitron with good geometry and calling it a day :D How is it gaming on a 13" PVM ?
I was thinking it will be too small for RGB signal and I should aim for 20" but they're never easy/cheap to find. I enjoy my Famicom on the 9" Sony 9042QM but I wouldn't consider playing SNES or above on it because it feels tiny (not many TV lines either). Currently looking at the market its looking as either a 14" affordable PVM or spend 3, 4 times as much for 20" PVM.


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2017 5:50 pm 


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Location: Up on the mountains, drifting with the 86
the 13/14 inch monitors are great IMO. You need to use them in a desktop context, but the same goes for a 20 incher. And you'll be sitting at the same distance from both, basically. And the 13/14 inch ones are a hell of a lot less bulkier.

I actually am not found of the 20 inch PVMs. I just don't really like their form factor, and raher much prefer a 13/14 inch one instead


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2017 7:55 pm 


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WOW

http://www.ebay.com/itm/252915466962?ul_noapp=true

Let's forget for a while that the seller have just one feedback point and the $15K price tag. But a BVM-D32E1WU new in the box (open box) you don't see everyday.


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2017 8:57 pm 


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hyrulebr wrote:
WOW

http://www.ebay.com/itm/252915466962?ul_noapp=true

Let's forget for a while that the seller have just one feedback point and the $15K price tag. But a BVM-D32E1WU new in the box (open box) you don't see everyday.


Incoming $200 offer.


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Thu May 04, 2017 2:21 am 


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Location: Sao Paulo BR
After years reading this stuff (almost since the thread was created) I realized I am crazy enough :lol: to jump in and say HI.
The RGB monitor scene (if there is such thing) is growing here in Brazil, despite PVMs and BVMs being hard to find. :|
My first two monitors were 9" JVC with no RGB, but that was all I could find at the time. They were almost new, cheap and from a local seller so I bought them just to see how do pro monitors look like. Needless to say, I was amazed, the image definition was good (for a small, non RGB monitor) but the brightness, contrast and colors were superb, better then I expected.
After couple more years searching in vain, unable to find anything bigger then 8-9" PVMs I found a retired broadcast TV tech who had some broken PVMs for sale. It turned out he also had two working PVMs, 14 and 20 inches. I bought them and then there was no turning back... :D

Now I just bought a SONY / IKEGAMI lot of 1 x 14" BVM, 5 x 14" Ikegami and 9x 14" PVMs from a broadcast company, most of them manufactured around 2004 and in excelent shape. Of course, I won't be keeping them all (already got 5 monitors ranging from 9" to 20"), but will sell them to local gamers, after a good cleaning and proper calibration. :mrgreen:


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Fri May 05, 2017 1:12 am 


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KatKya wrote:
hyrulebr wrote:
I didn't like (and understood) Why the Ikegami DOES NOT support 480p


Actually, they're perfectly capable of taking and displaying 480p if you don't mind opening the monitor up to flick a switch or so(and then adjusting the screen for said resolution).

https://www.reddit.com/r/crtgaming/comments/5ou7ja/guide_to_enabling_480p_on_the_ikegami_htm_series/


It took him a month to find that out? Wow, I knew about all this since mid 2013, I remember telling Fudoh back then about how Ikegami would charge customers *I don't remember how many yen* to just flick a switch!

And you don't have to "open the monitor up", all you have to do is slide the REMOTE input board out, flip the switch and slide it back in, not any different from putting in a new input board or anything.


hyrulebr wrote:
A lot sharper and better colors as supposed since I´m comparing a 650 lines vs 950 lines monitor.


Actually from what I understand, it's actually 1000TVL in 4:3 and 950TVL in 16:9. Hence why they say "950TVL or more", because I am thinking since this is their latest model HTM-1990R released in the 2000's they expected their consumer base (professional editing studios) to use it mainly in 16:9 mode as 4:3 was not anymore an industry standard, so they didn't bother going in more depth, kinda how they were super vague about the fact that it could do 480p and what you needed to have it run in 480p, as Fudoh once mentioned that 480p was not an industry standard and it was just by luck that the Sony BVM A/D series supported it.


Last edited by Lawfer on Fri May 05, 2017 1:57 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Fri May 05, 2017 1:55 am 


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KatKya wrote:
Actually, they're perfectly capable of taking and displaying 480p if you don't mind opening the monitor up to flick a switch or so(and then adjusting the screen for said resolution).

https://www.reddit.com/r/crtgaming/comments/5ou7ja/guide_to_enabling_480p_on_the_ikegami_htm_series/


I somehow missed KatKya post! Thanks for the info!

Lawfer wrote:
It took him a month to find that out? Wow, I knew about all this since mid 2013, I remember telling Fudoh back then about how Ikegami would charge customers *I don't remember how many yen* to just flick a switch!

And you don't have to "open the monitor up", all you have to do is slide the REMOTE input board out, flip the switch and slide it back in, not any different from putting in a new input board or anything.


I was talking about 480p until yesterday with a Ikegami Engineer and he said that I have to (but he didn't recommend) ship my monitor to Japan, exchange a EEPROM with a new firmware, calibrate for 480p and then ship back to me....

I'll try it on the weekend. :twisted:


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Fri May 05, 2017 2:02 am 


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hyrulebr wrote:
I was talking about 480p until yesterday with a Ikegami Engineer and he said that I have to (but he didn't recommend) ship my monitor to Japan, exchange a EEPROM with a new firmware, calibrate for 480p and then ship back to me....

I'll try it on the weekend. :twisted:


Yeah... There is even risk of damages and other unforeseen circumstances during shipment, better keep it where it is and do the calibration yourself.

However what's this about the sync issue you are having?

Here is a picture of my 1990R in RGB with a PS1 game:

Image

Does it look like it has the same issue that you mentioned?


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Fri May 05, 2017 4:21 am 


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Lawfer wrote:
Here is a picture of my 1990R in RGB with a PS1 game:


Nice to hear that someone here had a 1990R too. Did you enable 480P?

Lawfer wrote:
Does it look like it has the same issue that you mentioned?


Sorry but where I have to look to see your issue?

My issues are far easier to see and I only have issues when external sync is used (RGBS). With component no issues at all:

Street Fighter on PC engine (worst case)
Spoiler: show
Image


Master System unknown game (rotation screen - here was cut in the middle)
Spoiler: show
Image


Street Fighter on 3DO (see the waving/warping in first lines)
Spoiler: show
Image


240p test suite grip on Snes (playable, just a little waving/warping in the first lines)
Spoiler: show
Image


240p test suite grip on NES (NT mini) Much more waving/warping - I can't play in this monitor
Spoiler: show
Image


Street Fighter on PSone. I can't see warping. Maybe just a geometry problem in the 5 first lines
Spoiler: show
Image


no warping at all! 240p grip @ wii @ 480i @ component!
Spoiler: show
Image


480p grip @ wii (I could not wait until the weekend and I already changed the switch to 480P!) Someone have a clue how to fix geometry on this? :mrgreen:
Spoiler: show
Image


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Fri May 05, 2017 10:51 am 


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hyrulebr wrote:
Sorry but where I have to look to see your issue?


I was replying to what you said here:

hyrulebr wrote:
have sync problems as BVM A series. Anything in RGB will have around the first 20 lines a little warped. (not in YPbRp, so it´s a sync issue).


And I was like, "hey does it look like I have the same issue?"

But from the pictures you just posted, based on the 3DO example, I see what you meant now, yeah it doesn't look very good? Maybe you need to readjust the settings for RGB mode?

I use RGBs when playing PS1 and Saturn games for example, I also have a RVL-CPU-60 PAL Wii and tested to RGB output with it, so I guess you can add all these 3 to the list of RGBs output (PS2, Saturn and Wii), so basically I tested on it NTSC RGBs for PS1 games, NTSC Saturn for well Saturn games and both PAL60 480i and 576i 50hz with RGBs for PAL Wii games and they all performed in the sammer. So I am not sure how come you are having these issues.

EDIT: WAIT A MINUTE, do you have terminators set on ALL 4 BNC OUTPUTS?


hyrulebr wrote:
480p grip @ wii (I could not wait until the weekend and I already changed the switch to 480P!) Someone have a clue how to fix geometry on this? :mrgreen:
Spoiler: show
Image


It's been a very long time (as I mentioned this is stuff from mid 2013), Which dip switch did you flip? Number 2 like the guy on reddit said?


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Fri May 05, 2017 12:57 pm 


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"I was talking about 480p until yesterday with a Ikegami Engineer and he said that I have to (but he didn't recommend) ship my monitor to Japan, exchange a EEPROM with a new firmware, calibrate for 480p and then ship back to me"

Considering shipping costs (certainly not a light package) and the fact that BR customs would charge import taxes when the monitor ships back from Japan, that is not a viable option, as the tech said himself. There is also the risk of damage during transport, since the monitor would go around the world. :roll:

I have some IKEGAMI monitors with optional digital board (labeled D1 which I believe was the first industry standard for digital broadcast stuff) and have seen some cheap chinese HDMI to SD/SDI converters (which support multiple output modes).
Anyone else tried this? How did it turn out?


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Fri May 05, 2017 2:31 pm 


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did you see the link posted above (to reddit) about enabling 480p on the Ikegamis by just flipping a dip switch inside ?


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Fri May 05, 2017 5:02 pm 


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Lawfer wrote:
... so basically I tested on it NTSC RGBs for PS1 games, NTSC Saturn for well Saturn games and both PAL60 480i and 576i 50hz with RGBs for PAL Wii games and they all performed in the sammer. So I am not sure how come you are having these issues.


I tested all these consoles as well. All work without any warping, even Saturn that I had some earlier, but your post make me realize that the integrated sync stripper on Gscartw (always On in the vga style connector) was giving me some warping in consoles that I shouldn't have any (snes, mega drive, Saturn, ps2, etc). I used a direct cable to Ikegami and for these consoles the minimal warping was gone. :)

But even with direct cable PC Engine, 3DO, NT mini, Master System didn't change. Same freaking issues I showed before.

Lawfer wrote:
EDIT: WAIT A MINUTE, do you have terminators set on ALL 4 BNC OUTPUTS?


Yes, the monitor didn't come with terminators and I didn't find here in Brazil. I already bought 10 pieces in US but it will take a month to arrive. BUT, AFAIK it only influences in black and white references, no in sync signal.

Lawfer wrote:
It's been a very long time (as I mentioned this is stuff from mid 2013), Which dip switch did you flip? Number 2 like the guy on reddit said?


No, mine was number 6 (labeled 480p). I tried a fast adjust using the control board drawer but no sucess. Do you remember if you had to use the service menu? Talking about that, do you have the service manual and know how to access the service menu on Ikegami HTM 1990R?

My Wii is a US CPU-40, but I have the original Nintendo scart cable and used USB loaderGX to force video output to PAL. No warping as component:
Spoiler: show
Image


Saturn using GscartW with some warping (sync stripper always on)
Spoiler: show
Image


Saturn direct cable to Ikegami - without warping
Spoiler: show
Image


Ps2 using GscartW with some warping (sync stripper always on)
Spoiler: show
Image


Ps2 direct cable to Ikegami - without warping
Spoiler: show
Image


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Fri May 05, 2017 5:18 pm 


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danielretrogamer wrote:
"I was talking about 480p until yesterday with a Ikegami Engineer and he said that I have to (but he didn't recommend) ship my monitor to Japan, exchange a EEPROM with a new firmware, calibrate for 480p and then ship back to me"

Considering shipping costs (certainly not a light package) and the fact that BR customs would charge import taxes when the monitor ships back from Japan, that is not a viable option, as the tech said himself. There is also the risk of damage during transport, since the monitor would go around the world. :roll:

I have some IKEGAMI monitors with optional digital board (labeled D1 which I believe was the first industry standard for digital broadcast stuff) and have seen some cheap chinese HDMI to SD/SDI converters (which support multiple output modes).
Anyone else tried this? How did it turn out?


Hi Daniel

I was only trying to find out that board I needed to have 480p. (that was my guess). I never would pay or send my monitor over broad to upgrade it.

I've already flip the switch. It was fast and safe. :wink: But now I have to calibrate the image:

hyrulebr wrote:
480p grip @ wii (I could not wait until the weekend and I already changed the switch to 480P!) Someone have a clue how to fix geometry on this? :mrgreen:
Spoiler: show
Image


I have one of these HDMI to SDI converters that you comment and they work well in 720p/1080i but not in 480p. But my interest was in analog 480p. For HD we have plenty of good display options.

Mauricio


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Fri May 05, 2017 7:04 pm 



Joined: 30 Dec 2014
Posts: 438
Bought a Sony KV-27FS320 and paired it up with a Retrotek SCBV1P3 scart to component converter and it looked pretty nice for the most part. I think red seemed a bit off but other than that it looked good.

First I took some hi-res pics. Warning these are huge but they show how far it zooms in.

Spoiler: show
Image


Spoiler: show
Image


Spoiler: show
Image


Spoiler: show
Image


Spoiler: show
Image


Spoiler: show
Image



And some normal pics

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Fri May 05, 2017 7:14 pm 


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Location: Kentucky
Your geometry and convergence are really good compared to my KV-32FV310 :(


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Fri May 05, 2017 7:17 pm 


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Location: Sao Paulo BR
About the HDMI to SDI converter, I found some models that (should) work on 480i/480p monitors, but these are "chinese manufacturer" specs so I cannot be 100% sure. I was considering getting one for connecting a laptop to a Ikegami CRT and run some emulators :wink: not that this would be my main setup, just wanted to use the "useless" digital D1 board :mrgreen:

tacoguy64
nice TV, looks very good


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Fri May 05, 2017 7:21 pm 



Joined: 30 Dec 2014
Posts: 438
The guy I bought it from got it from his brother in law and said it had been sitting there with little use for around 10 years. I didn't run any test on it but thought it looked good too. Even came with a remote and manual which was nice.


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Fri May 05, 2017 8:16 pm 


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Location: Germany
Quote:
just wanted to use the "useless" digital D1 board

if the board is a dedicated D1 board, then it's 480i only. I've used a component to SDI converter box before on a BVM's SDI inputs. That usually works fine as long as your source won't switch to 240p.


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Fri May 05, 2017 10:14 pm 


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Can't remember which settings I did 4 years ago, but from the picture you have posted, it SEEMS that your main issue is with trapezoid and side pin adjustments, so have you tried pressing "EXPAND" switch and then turned around the knob for readjustment?


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