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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2017 6:55 am 



Joined: 19 Mar 2017
Posts: 12
Is there any consensus on what the best widescreen 16:9 480p plasma TV is for displaying 4:3 images?


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2017 12:48 pm 



Joined: 03 Dec 2016
Posts: 21
Dochartaigh wrote:
Nintendude94 wrote:
I have an opportunity to pick up a 20F1U for $675 locally. Only around 20,000 hours on it. I'm going to be looking at it tomorrow. This is my first time looking at a bvm over a pvm. Is this a decent price? Anything specially I should look for/know ahead of time when inspecting it?


Do you have 240p test suite on a flash cart for SNES or something you can bring?? Comes in REALLY handy if you do...

If not, punch in channels 94-99 (think that's the range) for some test grids and gray ramps - nothing in color though (which is where 240p test suite comes in handy). I would just look around for convergence issues and things like that. Make sure to let it run for like 15+ minutes as well - and see if you can get it from a cold start (i.e. you don't want him letting it warm up beforehand which can hide any potential issues which go away after it's warmed up – you can feel the back fins and see if it was recently turned on because they'll still be warm for a bit.


I don't have a flash cart, but I do have a homebrew Wii with it. I'll have to hook it up with component cables and some rca to bnc adapters. Not the most elegant solution, but it's what I have.

Thanks for the reply. I'll keep all of that in mind.


Also, I know that these usually have a control deck that sits on top. Not sure if this one comes with it or not. Is that something I'm going to want to have? I'm also not sure if it has the bezel. How much should that affect the price?


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2017 8:02 pm 



Joined: 19 Oct 2013
Posts: 233
Nintendude94 wrote:
Also, I know that these usually have a control deck that sits on top. Not sure if this one comes with it or not. Is that something I'm going to want to have? I'm also not sure if it has the bezel. How much should that affect the price?


If the controls are missing, no big loss. You can pick them up for 30-50 on eBay most days. And you'll want one.

If the bezel is missing, as this community told me after I bought mine (same model), only way I'm going to find one is to buy another BVM or happen by a busted one somewhere. Whether that matters to you or not is what would determine the price difference, but your odds are slim to none on just finding and purchasing one outright.


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 12:18 am 



Joined: 18 May 2017
Posts: 27
Location: Montpellier, FRANCE
Magicalbottle wrote:
lewolfeur wrote:
pick up today a 20m2 and a d20f1, but with neogeo aes have this issue.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a4Pa6U2 ... e=youtu.be

tested first with 240p test suite without problem on dreamcast.

channel 1 is set with slot 6, rgb, ext sync, vcr on or off is the same.
tested directly the cable to monitor and still same.
tested also with other card still same problem
Dont know what is wrong :roll:


I have the exact same problem wth my aes and pvm 2950. Other consoles work fine, the aes has been modded for rgb and stereo. try using a sync stripper.


tested with a sync stripper, still same issue, also my barco cvm-3051 dislike the neogeo aes.
there my test with my multiformat (dt-v1900cg, d20f1,1990r) the last picture is the barco.

http://imgur.com/a/YTTZI


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 2:01 am 



Joined: 03 Dec 2016
Posts: 21
Ended up getting that 20F1U. It looks pretty fantastic; great condition! I do have a couple questions though.

All of my systems are playing fine on it, except the ps2 (use it for ps1 games/ps2 light gun games). The ps2 seems to have a sync issue. It's the only console that's hooked up with sync-on-luma. Is there anything I'd have to do different for sync on luma? Is it just not supported for this monitor? Do I need to switch to a c-sync cable?

Also, the edges of the picture kind of wave/flicker when the screen is displaying a bright image. I played for about an hour today and it wore off (and briefly came back) over time. Anything to worry about?


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 3:01 am 



Joined: 02 Mar 2017
Posts: 182
Nintendude94 wrote:
All of my systems are playing fine on it, except the ps2 (use it for ps1 games/ps2 light gun games). The ps2 seems to have a sync issue. It's the only console that's hooked up with sync-on-luma. Is there anything I'd have to do different for sync on luma? Is it just not supported for this monitor? Do I need to switch to a c-sync cable?


On the PS2, make sure it's in 480i mode (the majority of PS2 games are in 480i not 480p), and I'm assuming this is a RGBs SCART cable so you want the color space (in the setup menu) to be YPbPr. On your monitor you want it set to RGB and External Sync - see if that helps.

Can't help you with your other problem I'm sorry to say...most people say to any problem: "recap it"!


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 5:19 am 


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Location: Toledo, OH
Been catching up on my TV viewing this evening. 12 or 14" PVM sighting in Preacher S02E08. One of the characters misidentifies it as a normal TV. For shame.


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 7:02 am 


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Location: Italy
I've spotted a PVM on a TV program as well - it's a running program in Italy and the PVM is used to display live feeds from guests who couldn't come to the studio:

Image

Now, about the guy that's on the second row to the left.. do you think his interest is piqued by the PVM or by the girl next to him? :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 7:08 am 


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Location: EU
Maybe just the horritastic dress. :shock:
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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 11:25 am 



Joined: 18 May 2017
Posts: 27
Location: Montpellier, FRANCE
Xer Xian wrote:
I've spotted a PVM on a TV program as well - it's a running program in Italy and the PVM is used to display live feeds from guests who couldn't come to the studio:


Its a Barco, the model must be a cvm-3051, they covered the barco button that lights orange with black scotch or was removed.


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 12:01 pm 


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There are lots of Sony 2030s and such used in the show Friends.


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 2:50 pm 



Joined: 10 May 2015
Posts: 331
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
You guys should see Until the End of the World. The director's cut has plenty of professional CRTs from Sony in it, like these...

http://imgur.com/a/1KB89


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 4:45 pm 



Joined: 14 Nov 2012
Posts: 255
Location: London, England, UK
The Negotiator trailer https://youtu.be/LJ1pS1W0XXg?t=56s

Other things I've seen PVMs in:

Robocop, scene where he plugs his data spike into police records database a PVM-2010

Hollowman scenes in base corridors PVM-204x hanging from walls
Bloodwork security tape played back on PVM-204x
New Adventures of Superman various episodes PVM-2030
X-Files various episodes PVM-2030
Law and Order/ Law and Order SVU various episodes PVM-2030

... and episodes of Murder she wrote and Colombo when they visit TV studios as part of the story PVM-2030

I can't stop seeing PVMs in everything!


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 5:55 pm 



Joined: 03 Dec 2016
Posts: 21
Quote:
On the PS2, make sure it's in 480i mode (the majority of PS2 games are in 480i not 480p), and I'm assuming this is a RGBs SCART cable so you want the color space (in the setup menu) to be YPbPr. On your monitor you want it set to RGB and External Sync - see if that helps.

Can't help you with your other problem I'm sorry to say...most people say to any problem: "recap it"!


I got it figured out. Not sure what was causing it, but it works fine now.


On the PVMs in movies topic. I recently noticed one in Professor X's bunker in Logan.

And some of the later seasons of Curb Your Enthusiasm have PVMs on a set for a movie Larry is filming in the show.

I drive my wife crazy pointing them out all of the time. Lol


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2017 6:58 am 


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Joined: 11 May 2015
Posts: 500
Location: America
22point8 wrote:
The Negotiator trailer https://youtu.be/LJ1pS1W0XXg?t=56s

Other things I've seen PVMs in:

Robocop, scene where he plugs his data spike into police records database a PVM-2010

Hollowman scenes in base corridors PVM-204x hanging from walls
Bloodwork security tape played back on PVM-204x
New Adventures of Superman various episodes PVM-2030
X-Files various episodes PVM-2030
Law and Order/ Law and Order SVU various episodes PVM-2030

... and episodes of Murder she wrote and Colombo when they visit TV studios as part of the story PVM-2030

I can't stop seeing PVMs in everything!


have you guys seen these? :shock:

Poppy - Computer Boy (Official Video)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Ao5mg11xIk

I'm Poppy - Official Lyric Video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E4vUxVwb_G8

(think it might be a Commodore or Amiga monitor, but I'm not sure)


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2017 5:36 pm 


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Joined: 08 Jan 2016
Posts: 305
Location: San Jose, CA
The original Jon Stewart show intro has a cubic PVM or two at the start.


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2017 7:02 pm 



Joined: 15 Aug 2009
Posts: 578
Location: Europe
There's like, an entire wall of PVM in Ant Man.


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 2:28 pm 


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Posts: 993
I finally got my new printed power button for the TM-H1950CG working. Reassembled the set and everything worked great.

I rotated it, as this was bought to be my TATE screen, and now I have a lovely rainbow of discoloration. I'm a bit bummed by this since it's my 4th screen I've rotated (TV, PC CRT, 15" version of this same family) and it's the first one to give me trouble.

I'm going to let it sit a while before messing with it. I hope I didn't damage the degauss coil :|


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2017 12:06 am 



Joined: 16 Jul 2017
Posts: 2
I have a BVM that has a minor color purity in one of the corners. It can be seen as light green when I have a solid red color pattern up. I don't even see it on a white background.

I went out and bought a deguassing coil, hoping that I can fix the issue. What I noticed was bizarre and unexpected.

I did the whole deguassing coil procedure. The coil distorted the entire screen and I started moving the coil slowly and slowly away from the screen in a circular motion.

Here's where it gets bizarre:

What I noticed was, when I was very far away, the only part of the screen affected by the coil was my corner with the color purity issue. The rest of the screen showed no distortion or effect.

Has anyone ever seen this before? Why would only the corner of the screen be affected by the coil when its far away? I don't think its a coincidence that it's the corner I'm having an issue with.


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 5:41 am 


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I'm pretty sure all the military dudes are watching everything happen on a PVM in Godzilla (98).

On the subject of CRT's, why does the whole atmosphere change when you turn them on? That weird electrical charge in the air, what is it?
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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 10:45 am 


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lewolfeur wrote:
http://imgur.com/a/YTTZI


Wow you have so many CRT monitors, from experience which would you say is the best?

Also, I think you made a mistake, the Sony shown in most comparison picture is not a 20", it's a 14" and it's 16:9. Only the last picture is a Sony 20" 4:3.

Also, from what it shows is that only the 20f1 (last picture) is able to display NeoGeo input properly?

It's weird that the Ikegami can't do 50hz PAL n64, while it can do snes 50hz PAL.


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Wed Aug 23, 2017 2:37 pm 



Joined: 04 Sep 2010
Posts: 1783
Location: Denmark
That BVM A20F1 has been hidden away in the corner of my room under a white sheet for years now, being utterly useless. Unlike most here I never really desired owning one due to a general distaste for the visual aesthetics of HD capable SONY pro monitors. I only bought it because a rare local oppotunity suddenly popped up and was likely never to do so again.

Frankly speaking about the only thing I consider it useful for is playing EDTV era games. Alas, I played those games back when they were new, and I doubt I'll ever want to go back as my tastes are now focused on the 8/16 bit era, with the occasional contemporary mixed in for size.

Anywaste, I finally decided I needed to use that ugly monstrocity for something, anything. The only obvious vacant slot in my gaming setup in need of a multisync 20" CRT is the retro Japanese PC corner.

A very long time ago I had attempted to hook an X68000 up to a PVM L5, with very dissapointing results. The X68000 is notorious for its oddball nonstandard resolutions.

I have since acquired other Japanese PC platforms, so I thought I'd see whether this BVM would play nice with any of them. Hooking up a PC98 and FM Towns were a no go. The PC98 is a 24khz platform and as expected the BVM could not sync to it. FM Towns on the other hand outputs 31khz or 15khz depending on the game, so I thought it might work. No dice though, the screen would roll vertically. While 15khz X68000 games refused to sync 31khz actually proved to work, albeit partially.

That is to say, 31khz games sync, but the picture curves at the top, just like the problem some people have when hooking a Mega Drive or PC Engine to BVM's, which apparantly can be solved by toggling the VCR mode.

Alas the A series BVM does not have VCR mode functionality. I did hear though that using an Extron 580xi could fix the issue. I figured the Extron might be worth a shot since it also could convert the TTL level RGBHV signal from the PC's to an RGBs signal at a level more appropriate for video equipment such as the BVM.

Well, that idea sure turned out to be a bust. It seems the Extron also cannot handle the oddball 31khz sync put out by the X68000. So when I put it in between the X68000 and the BVM I no longer get a sync, whether at 31khz, 15khz or 24khz.

On the bright side It seems that the FM Town 31khz does sync when put though the Extron. I imagine that is because of the voltage level and HV to C sync conversion. I doubt I'll use it though as I think 31khz lowres games from machines like FM Town and X68000 look really harsh and ugly on the BVM. Just like they would look on an LCD.

I suppose the only way to get a BVM to play nice with Japanese PC's is by using an XPC-4. But to me that is a moot point since in the end I'll find the image quality too harsh and ugly on the ultra sharp BVM.

I am not crazy about the way 15khz games look on the BVM either as the space betwween the scan lines are too thick, making things look harsh, once again.

Looks like this trophy wife BVM of mine is destined to never be of any use to me. I any regard, Japanese PC's and BVM's are not a match made in heaven, you've been warned.


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Wed Aug 23, 2017 3:35 pm 


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kamiboy wrote:
That is to say, 31khz games sync, but the picture curves at the top


How bad is it?


kamiboy wrote:
I am not crazy about the way 15khz games look on the BVM either as the space betwween the scan lines are too thick, making things look harsh, once again.


Yeah, I read that some people don't like that look. And these screens aren't exactly meant for 15Khz use (even though they are compatible with it).


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Wed Aug 23, 2017 3:51 pm 



Joined: 10 May 2015
Posts: 331
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
From my understanding, the BVM-D20F1 and the A20F1 uses the same tube as the BVM-20F1, which was strictly 15KHz. Why wouldn't it be suited for this resolution then?


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Wed Aug 23, 2017 4:01 pm 



Joined: 17 Jan 2016
Posts: 162
Have you tried it through an ossc?


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Wed Aug 23, 2017 4:10 pm 


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nissling wrote:
From my understanding, the BVM-D20F1 and the A20F1 uses the same tube as the BVM-20F1, which was strictly 15KHz. Why wouldn't it be suited for this resolution then?


kamiboy was talking about 240p though when he said "15Khz" and I replied to him also referring to 240p as "15Khz". 480i is fine on these screen, it's 240p that some people don't like the look of for reasons that kamiboy mentioned.


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Wed Aug 23, 2017 5:29 pm 



Joined: 04 Sep 2010
Posts: 1783
Location: Denmark
Lawfer wrote:
kamiboy wrote:
That is to say, 31khz games sync, but the picture curves at the top


How bad is it?



Very bad, the top 1/4 to 1/5th of the screen is completely skewed at an extreme angle.

LDigital wrote:
Have you tried it through an ossc?


I don't own one, nor have any plans to.


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Wed Aug 23, 2017 5:41 pm 


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kamiboy wrote:
Lawfer wrote:
kamiboy wrote:
That is to say, 31khz games sync, but the picture curves at the top


How bad is it?



Very bad, the top 1/4 to 1/5th of the screen is completely skewed at an extreme angle.


What consoles does this issue affect?


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Wed Aug 23, 2017 6:07 pm 



Joined: 04 Sep 2010
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Location: Denmark
As far as I know Mega Drive and PC Engine. There have been some threads here before about the issue, and the advice has always been, turn on VCR/AFC mode. But the A series does not have that option.


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Wed Aug 23, 2017 6:26 pm 


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kamiboy wrote:
As far as I know Mega Drive and PC Engine. There have been some threads here before about the issue, and the advice has always been, turn on VCR/AFC mode. But the A series does not have that option.


Is the top perfectly straight on other consoles or is it slightly bent/skewd/curved a little?


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