shmups.system11.org

Shmups Forum
 
* FAQ    * Search
 * Register  * Login 
It is currently Tue Jul 25, 2017 10:31 pm View unanswered posts
View active topics



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 105 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Project Yokotate mk2 - Silicon Optix Image Anyplace
PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2011 3:45 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 10447
Location: Germany
A few years ago I wrote this little article about the use of an Immersive Holograph in a HTPC to actually rotate the game field in order to play TATE titles on YOKO displays. http://yokotate.hazard-city.de/ And while the project has found quite a few fans, the Holograph cards have become incredibly hard to find.

So, to continue the project, today I got a Silicon Optix Image Anyplace processor, which is a FLI-2200 based video scaler and the only one one the market to offer picture rotation in a standalone box. So, here's my review (which will be added to my website the next few days). I will update this thread with pictures tonight or tomorrow.


Image
comes with illuminated front buttons and a hard to read red-in-red LCD display


This one actually took my ages to get. I’ve setup an automated eBay.com search for Silicon Optix back in 2008, but the only units showing up were in bad condition and with prices of more than $700 plus shipping. Anyway, in the summer of 2011 I finally got one and ran the full program of tests. And what can I say ? Who would have expected that the Silicon Optix turned out to be a new star among the video game processors out there ? Well, it did. Read on to learn about it!.

The Image Anyplace was introduced in 2004 or 2005 for a hefty $4000. It was aimed at users of digital high-end projectors, because - as the name already suggests - the Image Anyplace is the only video processor out there to feature extensive digital keystone correction for projectors. You can use it to counter any kind of geometry distortion caused by projecting from all kinds of weird angles. What hit me about the Silicon Optix unit, is it’s ability to provide +/-90° picture rotation to any of it’s inputs. But first things first....

Image
extensive menus, including a geometry menu which allows rotation


The Image Anyplace features the FLI2200 processor (just like the Videon and Vigatec units), but adds a FGPA for scaling (up to 1400x1050p or 1080i) and live-geometry-corrections and rotation. As expected from the Faroudja processor inside, the Image Anyplace features full 240p compatibility and recognition, so it doesn’t even try to deinterlace 240p material. For 480i material you get full control over the FLI’s deinterlacing features. There’s a even a DI-mode called static mesh is very similar to the gamemode on the DVDO units - just better. I’m hardly impressed by any video processor nowadays, but the SI did the trick. Amazing for all kinds of classic video game signals! With the nice scaling available in the unit, the overall picture quality is even better (= sharper) than on the Videon/Vigatec units - excellent!

The processor has got SD inputs (composite, s-video, component) and HD inputs (component, RGBHV, VGA, DVI) and processing and image rotation is available to all of them.

So far, so good. The major selling point in this processor is it’s ability to rotate the picture. Before the Image Anyplace, this feature was only available in a HTPC setup using the Holo3DGraph processor card. Unfortunately it’s a pain in the ass to find a Holo card nowadays and setting up a HTPC isn’t everyone’s cup of tea anyway. The Image Anyplace takes all those features and puts them into a single standalone processor.

No matter if your input is 480i (e.g. from a PS2), 240p (e.g. from a Saturn) or 480p (e.g. from a Dreamcast), the Image Anyplace makes all your TATE-compatible games shine - without the need to rotate your display. As you can read in my Yokotate article, the advantage of using a TATE mode isn’t only the bigger playing screen, it’s the better resolution and the waive of any scaling in the source. Classic games running at 320x240 usually need to be downscaled to 180x240 for Yoko play. Dreamcast games like Excelica running in 640x480 have to be downscaled to 360x480. With the Silicon Optix, you get the full resolution all the way. The Image Anyplace offers both clockwise and counter-clockwise rotation as well as multiple combinations with all kinds of flipping or mirroring. Everything works like a charm and looks stunning! The whole processing lag remains on a very moderate level with around 1 frame for already progressive signals and still under 2 frames for interlaced 15khz signals.


Image
the main purpose of the Image Anyplace is digital keystone correction and flipping/mirroring


There are two very minor cons I could find while testing the unit: a) given the age of the unit, 1080p is not available. The highest HD resolution output for DVI/HDMI and VGA is 1080i and the higherst PC resolution output is 1400x1050p. And b) while the scaling overall is really good, the Image Anyplace cannot apply picture rotation to a signal with scanlines without causing scaling artefacts (unevely scaled scanlines). For 99% of all possible users this isn’t important, but it’s a hint for anybody thinking of chaining a XRGB-3 with the Image Anyplace ;-)

PROs: excellent processing quality and full 240p compatibily, many inputs, picture rotation for “Yokotate” gameplay
CONs: not this easy to find if you’re on a budget. No 1080p output (just 1080i or PC resolutions up to 1400x1050p)


Image
...but using it to play TATE games on YOKO displays is just more fun!


Conclusion: one of a kind! Not only great quality for all 240p sources, but the only processor to allow picture rotation for all inputs. Hands-down the best processor I can think of to use a supergun on a large digital display.


The Image Anyplace is available on eBay.com. Usually the asking price is around $400


Last edited by Fudoh on Tue Jun 26, 2012 10:10 pm, edited 3 times in total.

Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Project Yokotate mk2 - Silicon Optix Image Anyplace
PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2011 8:57 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 29 Jan 2005
Posts: 3245
Location: Phoenix
Excellent! You thorough man, you! :D

Reminds me, I don't think I've touched my Holo3D machine since my last move (used to be hooked up to my main HD TV in the living room. Still have that HDMI channel named "Holo3D" in the TV menu, heh). Just one of many things to take care of next year (hopefully!) :D
-ud
_________________
Righteous Super Hero / Righteous Love


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Project Yokotate mk2 - Silicon Optix Image Anyplace
PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2011 4:14 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 10447
Location: Germany
added some pictures...


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Project Yokotate mk2 - Silicon Optix Image Anyplace
PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2011 12:38 am 



Joined: 26 Feb 2010
Posts: 315
Looks awesome!


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Project Yokotate mk2 - Silicon Optix Image Anyplace
PostPosted: Sat Oct 01, 2011 12:05 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 04 Sep 2008
Posts: 539
nice review as always !

why is it so hard to include a rotation feature on scaler ?

Another solution could be some high end projector, some have a rotation feature.
_________________
XRGB & OSSC Wiki


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Project Yokotate mk2 - Silicon Optix Image Anyplace
PostPosted: Sat Oct 01, 2011 12:10 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 10447
Location: Germany
Quote:
why is it so hard to include a rotation feature on scaler ?

it's really not. Most processors are just based on readily available ASIC designs which don't include such options. On any processor with a FPGA this can easily be done.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Project Yokotate mk2 - Silicon Optix Image Anyplace
PostPosted: Sat Oct 08, 2011 1:12 pm 



Joined: 21 Aug 2011
Posts: 41
Location: Estocolmo, Sweden
I got interested in the Image Anyplace when I read this thread and found this while searching eBay. For you US residents it seems like quite a steal at 199 USD (almost too low compared to the other listings...)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Silicon-Optix-I ... 56466b2076
_________________
WTB PCBs: Armed Police Batrider JP ver B, Deathsmiles, Demon Front
WTB console games: Battle Garegga (sat), In The Hunt (sat)


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Project Yokotate mk2 - Silicon Optix Image Anyplace
PostPosted: Sat Oct 08, 2011 1:15 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 10447
Location: Germany
absolutely, great deal!


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Project Yokotate mk2 - Silicon Optix Image Anyplace
PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 9:41 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 29 Jan 2005
Posts: 3245
Location: Phoenix
Oh, yeah! How about ~$90 in box, shipped! :D
http://www.ebay.com/itm/190594005658
-ud
_________________
Righteous Super Hero / Righteous Love


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Project Yokotate mk2 - Silicon Optix Image Anyplace
PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 10:21 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 18 Aug 2008
Posts: 7210
Location: Alingsås, Sweden
Cool! 8) Does it use a 110/220 PSU?
_________________
Image | My games - http://www.emphatic.se | Custom shmup move strips! | Now featuring Storm Blade English move strip!
RegalSin wrote:
Street Fighters. We need to aviod them when we activate time accellerator.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Project Yokotate mk2 - Silicon Optix Image Anyplace
PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 10:33 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 29 Jan 2005
Posts: 3245
Location: Phoenix
emphatic wrote:
Cool! 8) Does it use a 110/220 PSU?

Yup! 100 – 250V @ 47 – 63 Hz. More info here: http://www.flexiblepicturesystems.com/i ... asheet.pdf
-ud
_________________
Righteous Super Hero / Righteous Love


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Project Yokotate mk2 - Silicon Optix Image Anyplace
PostPosted: Fri Nov 18, 2011 8:42 am 



Joined: 03 Nov 2011
Posts: 13
I'm sorry, but do I need a sync stripper for this thing? Or do I just have a bad SCART to VGA cable? Because so far, it keeps failing to recognize the input. (I got one for around $250, without a remote...feel like a sucker, but at these prices will likely just resell.)


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Project Yokotate mk2 - Silicon Optix Image Anyplace
PostPosted: Fri Nov 18, 2011 10:40 am 


User avatar

Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 10447
Location: Germany
This "thing" does not accept 15khz RGBs at all. If you want to use a Scart source, you have to use a Scart to component CONVERTER (not an adapter).


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Project Yokotate mk2 - Silicon Optix Image Anyplace
PostPosted: Fri Nov 18, 2011 3:42 pm 



Joined: 03 Nov 2011
Posts: 13
Thank you very much for clarifying, fudoh. So I'd have to find that plus some rca-bnc dongles, I suppose.

EDIT: Ah, hold on, I've already got one! I think. My trusty Key Digital KD-VTCA3 accepts SCART input (there's a DIP switch). It's not a scaler, so (I hope) resolution won't matter. Was about to sell the thing (still may, along with the Silicon Optix). Of course I have no way of confirming this actually works until I get some rca-bnc connectors...


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Project Yokotate mk2 - Silicon Optix Image Anyplace
PostPosted: Fri Nov 18, 2011 5:08 pm 



Joined: 03 Nov 2011
Posts: 13
Ah, no dice, I think (no 240p)
http://www.abt.com/product/18228/Key-Di ... VTCA3.html


Accepted Scanning Formats

50 Hz or 60 Hz refresh: 480i, 480p, 576i, 576p, 1080i/540p, 720p
Output scanning format is always the SAME as the input scanning format

Very disappointing. The price is just too high. Ah well, serves me right for not understanding fudoh's homepage to the letter...


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Project Yokotate mk2 - Silicon Optix Image Anyplace
PostPosted: Sat Nov 19, 2011 10:12 am 


User avatar

Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 10447
Location: Germany
What are you looking for ? RGB Scart to YUV ? These are $45 on eBay.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Project Yokotate mk2 - Silicon Optix Image Anyplace
PostPosted: Sat Nov 19, 2011 3:38 pm 



Joined: 03 Nov 2011
Posts: 13
Right Fudo, but total cost of the system if it's not much better than a gbs-8220 is already very high (I'm not really sure how and where to spot the differences and couldn't really tell from your site) and I'm thinking that it might just be smarter to resell and invest in the kit from arcadeforge if the quality is acceptable. (I was using the SCART to HDMI LKV362 box from eBay, but the quality from that is *not* acceptable at all, and also N64 RGB is way too dark/unusable with it.) It would mean living without rotation, I suppose, which is what's holding me back...


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Project Yokotate mk2 - Silicon Optix Image Anyplace
PostPosted: Sat Nov 19, 2011 5:19 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 10447
Location: Germany
Of course the rotation feature should be sellig point #1, but even without it, the Silicon Optix is very nice for 240p and 480i content, especially since if offers proper 240p recognition and field-scaling (kind of gamemode) for 480i - both features a processor like the GBS8220 does not offer.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Project Yokotate mk2 - Silicon Optix Image Anyplace
PostPosted: Sun Nov 20, 2011 9:27 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 21 Jul 2005
Posts: 221
so you can use it without stepdown converter in Europe which have 230v?

on the RGB Input you can plug in the VGA Cable from p.e. XRGB 3?


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Project Yokotate mk2 - Silicon Optix Image Anyplace
PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2011 2:04 am 


User avatar

Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 10447
Location: Germany
Quote:
so you can use it without stepdown converter in Europe which have 230v?

yes.

Quote:
on the RGB Input you can plug in the VGA Cable from p.e. XRGB 3?

haven't tested with a XRGB, since the scaling engine isn't good enough to rotate and evenly scale scanlined images. - but yes, in general you can input 31khz VGA sources.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Project Yokotate mk2 - Silicon Optix Image Anyplace
PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2011 5:36 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 21 Jul 2005
Posts: 221
Fudoh wrote:
Quote:
on the RGB Input you can plug in the VGA Cable from p.e. XRGB 3?

haven't tested with a XRGB, since the scaling engine isn't good enough to rotate and evenly scale scanlined images. - but yes, in general you can input 31khz VGA sources.


mhm but that would be why Im using it. I mean how else should I connect a rgb (scart source) to it?!


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Project Yokotate mk2 - Silicon Optix Image Anyplace
PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2011 5:42 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 10447
Location: Germany
You can do it, but it's overkill and the SO's deinterlacing is top notch for 240p material. Why are you interested in a SO at all ? For the rotation ? In this case, I would use a RGBs to component converter instead of chaining two full processors.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Project Yokotate mk2 - Silicon Optix Image Anyplace
PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2011 6:42 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 29 Jan 2005
Posts: 3245
Location: Phoenix
Fudoh wrote:
I would use a RGBs to component converter instead of chaining two full processors.

Exactly what I will be doing. My SO unit got returned to sender because of a damaged label. Being re-sent to me this week. Maybe pics next weekend! :D
-ud
_________________
Righteous Super Hero / Righteous Love


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Project Yokotate mk2 - Silicon Optix Image Anyplace
PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2011 8:18 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 21 Jul 2005
Posts: 221
Fudoh wrote:
Why are you interested in a SO at all ? For the rotation ? In this case, I would use a RGBs to component converter instead of chaining two full processors.


yes main reason is the rotation mode. What do you mean with "isn't good enoug the rotate scanlined images? I just want a prodact that rotates a scanlined image. Is it also better for Monitor SYNC issues?


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Project Yokotate mk2 - Silicon Optix Image Anyplace
PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2011 11:30 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 31 Dec 2009
Posts: 625
Location: East Coast, US
It'll rotate the image no problem, but the scaling engine isn't perfectly even, so some scanlines may look too thick, too thin or uneven. It'll be ugly.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Project Yokotate mk2 - Silicon Optix Image Anyplace
PostPosted: Sat Nov 26, 2011 5:09 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 21 Jul 2005
Posts: 221
SGGG2 wrote:
It'll rotate the image no problem, but the scaling engine isn't perfectly even, so some scanlines may look too thick, too thin or uneven. It'll be ugly.


but thats exactly what I need otherwise the machine isn't attractive to me. I want something to rotate my XRGB 3 scanlined image


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Project Yokotate mk2 - Silicon Optix Image Anyplace
PostPosted: Sat Nov 26, 2011 6:05 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 10447
Location: Germany
It has never been done before. You can PROBABLY do this with a Holo2 plus HD-upgrade card, but it's a tricky setup and there's no guarantee that it works with all inputs.

It would be much safer to overlay the scanlines AFTER rotating the image. You could use an Image Anyplace on it's own (no need for an XRGB) and use any Blackmagic device with graphics overlay for 720p images. I haven't actually done with the SOIA, but I've done it with other sources and it's completely hassle-free.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Project Yokotate mk2 - Silicon Optix Image Anyplace
PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2011 6:13 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 29 Jan 2005
Posts: 3245
Location: Phoenix
After some insane shipping silliness, I got my unit in this week! :D

Rotation feature works excellent! Though, being as I'm running through the VGA input on my TV, I was reminded of how limited my TV is in that mode (black bars and such). :? The SOIA does have DVI-D out (capable various resolutions, including 720p), so I may end up going DVI-D + audio through one of these to my TV's spare HDMI input, as that should do away with the limitations of my TV's VGA input.

Thanks again, for the heads up on this unit, Fudoh! :D No more fan noise from my Holo3D HTPC in the living room! :D
-ud
_________________
Righteous Super Hero / Righteous Love


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Project Yokotate mk2 - Silicon Optix Image Anyplace
PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2011 8:09 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 10447
Location: Germany
Usually at least one HDMI input on your TV should allow you to use an external audio feed. DVI-D and HDMI can be connected right away and if you assign your analogue stereo input (or a 3.5mm mini jack) to this video input you should be fine.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Project Yokotate mk2 - Silicon Optix Image Anyplace
PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2011 8:33 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 29 Jan 2005
Posts: 3245
Location: Phoenix
Fudoh wrote:
Usually at least one HDMI input on your TV should allow you to use an external audio feed.

Ha! Excellent! Just checked the tech specs and you are correct!
Sony wrote:
If the equipment has a DVI jack and not an HDMI jack, connect the DVI jack to any HDMI IN (with DVI-to-HDMI cable or adapter) jack and connect the audio jack to the AUDIO IN (L/R) jacks below HDMI IN 1.

I've already got a high quality DVI-D to HDMI cable, so it sounds like I'm set! Maybe I can post some pics tonight! Thanks, Fudoh! :D
-ud
_________________
Righteous Super Hero / Righteous Love


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 105 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4  Next

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: andykara2003, cyborc, invzim, juji82, nakedarthur, shadowman and 8 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Space Pilot 3K template by Jakob Persson
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group