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 Post subject: Re: Micomsoft SC-500N1 RGB Capture Card
PostPosted: Sun Jan 17, 2016 4:22 pm 



Joined: 21 Jun 2012
Posts: 23
Location: England
NightSprinter wrote:
No, but the driver-based deinterlacing doesn't produce 50/60fps video.

Yeah I figured it wouldn't work, I tried the latest driver posted by Thrill above, that worked for a minute for so before getting a BSOD related to the driver.

I've just gone back to .114, it's stable and seems to work fine enough for me.


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 Post subject: Re: Micomsoft SC-500N1 RGB Capture Card
PostPosted: Sun Jan 17, 2016 5:45 pm 



Joined: 02 May 2013
Posts: 193
I'm using Micomsoft 140 here. I definitely suggest staying as far away from the 160 driver if you capture RGB from retro hardware. RGB doesn't register any valid signal below 480i.


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 Post subject: Re: Micomsoft SC-500N1 RGB Capture Card
PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2016 5:16 pm 


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Joined: 01 Jan 2011
Posts: 453
Location: Cleveland, OH
So has anyone had any experience putting multiples of this card in a PC and getting multiple video streams linked together? I was looking at AGDQ races and seeing what it would take to get a similar setup running.
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 Post subject: Re: Micomsoft SC-500N1 RGB Capture Card
PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2016 7:26 pm 


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Joined: 06 Oct 2015
Posts: 1817
Location: Canada
FYI, AGDQ has been unable to get more than 2 of any one card working in the same PC at a time, which is why they use two Micomsoft HD cards and two Avermedia SD cards, resulting in 4-way races looking strange where two of the players have a much lower quality image.

EDIT: Direct quote:

TestRunner wrote:
Our setup has 2 Avermedia c027 (for SD) and 2 Micomsoft cards (for HD). We have two kinds of cards because in the past when we had 4 of the same cards, we had driver conflicts and the computer crashed several times during the event. The problem is that during 4-way races it was very clear that two of the games looked different than the other two. We may look into getting 4 of the same, but we would need to make sure this doesn’t come at a cost of stability of the stream.


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 Post subject: Re: Micomsoft SC-500N1 RGB Capture Card
PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2016 9:27 pm 



Joined: 12 May 2013
Posts: 23
NightSprinter wrote:
I'm using Micomsoft 140 here. I definitely suggest staying as far away from the 160 driver if you capture RGB from retro hardware. RGB doesn't register any valid signal below 480i.


Does the 140 driver treat everything as BT.709? I'm still on 108 because of this issue.


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 Post subject: Re: Micomsoft SC-500N1 RGB Capture Card
PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2016 9:33 pm 



Joined: 02 May 2013
Posts: 193
I haven't really checked for this, but can do so if given an idea of what to capture.


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 Post subject: Re: Micomsoft SC-500N1 RGB Capture Card
PostPosted: Sat Jan 23, 2016 6:54 pm 



Joined: 12 May 2013
Posts: 23
Every driver I've tried except 108 have this issue. It's really easy to notice if you capture RGB over VGA. I'm using the SC-512N1-L, but the results are the same. Greens especially look way to bright. Just look at greens in something like Super Mario World or Super Mario 64. It's an easy fix if you're only recording footage, but for live use it's kind of annoying.

Since you have to use Amarec to fix the horizontal color shift (and for line doubling), it really becomes an issue. When using amarec as a source in streaming software it gets treated as an RGB signal, which unfortunately means that you can't choose the correct color space. It stays as BT.709, and there's no way to change it.

The SC-512 can't capture audio (nor composite/s-video) with the 108 driver, so I have to use a mixer console for that. It all works pretty well, but it's not really an optimal solution. I used to discuss this with a Super Mario 64 speedrunner, and he contacted Micomsoft on several occasions asking about this issue. He ended up trading his SC-512 for an SC-500, just so he would be able to use the 108 driver. Micomsoft said they would look into it, but they obviously didn't.

A simple setting for this wouldn't be to hard to include. The new Magewell cards seem to have great drivers with a bunch of settings, but no one knows if 240p capture is possible. They told me that it should work in theory, but they have no way to test it. They've only gone as low as 480p over VGA. When I mentioned 15kHz RGB, they had no idea what I was talking about until I explained it thoroughly. Not really a great sign. At least they're responsive.


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 Post subject: Re: Micomsoft SC-500N1 RGB Capture Card
PostPosted: Sat Jan 23, 2016 7:38 pm 



Joined: 02 May 2013
Posts: 193
Hmm, will try to see about it after livestreams this weekend. I need to order another adapter to use my consoles with the Extron RGB interface I have.


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 Post subject: Re: Micomsoft SC-500N1 RGB Capture Card
PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2016 8:32 pm 



Joined: 02 May 2013
Posts: 193
Alright, finally got some stuff done related to what you're asking about. So this was captured with the 142 driver and the color range set to "shrink". Image

Here's a second one with it set to "Bypass".
Image

If you're curious as to how to resize it in legacy OBS, when editing the scene hold Shift down while dragging the edge of the source. That should allow you to stretch vertically without affecting horizontal size.

Also, lately my PEXHDCAP after streaming MS-DOS games from real hardware (yes, I have a few select PCI/AGP cards that the card will somehow accept input from) for about an hour or so the card simply refuses to display a picture. I have to reboot my main computer to get the card to work again.


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 Post subject: Re: Micomsoft SC-500N1 RGB Capture Card
PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2016 10:06 pm 


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Joined: 16 Sep 2011
Posts: 1140
Location: Germany
The colors in both of the screenshots are off. There should be 3 distinct shades of green in the letters.

Here's an older screenshot I took that's a bit too bright but otherwise fine. sc500n1_1.png (And a Framemeister screenshot for comparison)


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 Post subject: Re: Micomsoft SC-500N1 RGB Capture Card
PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2016 10:11 pm 


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Joined: 08 Jan 2016
Posts: 275
Location: San Jose, CA
I got a PEXHDCAP, which is apparently a re-branded version of this card. With RGB, it looks like it is being converted to YPbPr, and the Pr line has a slight delay / capacitance issue, giving it some interesting color artifacts. Here's a capture of Famicom Paridous Da! for reference, in RGB:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0jWwpJlpzkw


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 Post subject: Re: Micomsoft SC-500N1 RGB Capture Card
PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2016 10:26 pm 



Joined: 02 May 2013
Posts: 193
What do you suggest I do with the colors, blizz? Also, should I be concerned about having to reboot after recording or streaming stuff from my DOS/Win98 computer after a while (especially as I have a few games that change resolutioms and refresh rates)?


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 Post subject: Re: Micomsoft SC-500N1 RGB Capture Card
PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2016 10:29 pm 


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Joined: 16 Sep 2011
Posts: 1140
Location: Germany
mikejmoffitt, what exactly do you mean? I can't see anything that looks unusual in your video, but I've also never played the Famicom version of Parodius Da. If you mean the slight color shift, there's an option in AmarecTV to fix it.

NightSprinter, I'm using driver version 126. Maybe that makes a difference? It's been a while since I've tested the different driver versions.


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 Post subject: Re: Micomsoft SC-500N1 RGB Capture Card
PostPosted: Thu Jan 28, 2016 12:05 am 



Joined: 12 May 2013
Posts: 23
I was looking through the thread and found this old comparison of the drivers:

Spoiler: show
blizzz wrote:
I had a quick look at the different drivers.

Micomsoft v1.1.0.108
  • Sharpest picture
  • Doesn't support 60.10 fps on the HDMI input (frame drops)

Startech v1.1.0.114
  • Component is blurrier than 108

Micomsoft v1.1.0.116
  • Doesn't support 60.10 fps on the HDMI input (frame drops)
  • Slight chroma bleed on HDMI

Micomsoft v1.1.0.122
  • Doesn't support 60.10 fps on the HDMI input (frame drops)
  • Slight chroma bleed on HDMI

Micomsoft v1.1.0.124
  • Supports 60.10 fps on the HDMI input
  • Colors are wrong

Startech v1.1.0.126
  • Supports 60.10 fps on the HDMI input
  • Slight chroma bleed on HDMI

Of course this is no extensive analysis of the drivers. I'll keep using v1.1.0.108 for now. v1.1.0.126 might be the best choice if you want to record from the Framemeister with unlocked Framerate. But there's very little use for videos that are not 59.94 or 60.00 fps.


Driver version 126 still needs you to correct colors as far as I know (you can bypass this issue when using something like a framemeister though). Not being able to record at 60.10/59.82fps etc. kinda sucks, but it doesn't bother me as much as the colors do.


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 Post subject: Re: Micomsoft SC-500N1 RGB Capture Card
PostPosted: Thu Jan 28, 2016 1:21 am 



Joined: 02 May 2013
Posts: 193
Ok, made another screencap with the pass-thru on my NEC toned down to 75 Ohm termination.
Image

Unfortunately for me, the 142 driver is the best version I can use.. It's the only one that lets me capture retro at proper resolution, and at least gives me a solution for DOS game streaming for now. I just wish I knew why the hell OBS makes my desktop crash when I enable one of the in-driver deinterlacers. Same with OBS requiring so much fiddling with the crossbar to make the image viewable.


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 Post subject: Re: Micomsoft SC-500N1 RGB Capture Card
PostPosted: Thu Jan 28, 2016 3:09 am 


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Joined: 15 Sep 2014
Posts: 111
I just recently picked up the PEXHDCAP60L, althought I am reading things like the 100% CPU error and such so I am getting nervous. I still have yet to install any drivers, should I stick with StarTech or Micomsoft? (or Yuan? [is this a company?]) I am running Windows 10... does anyone have a stable driver version they are willing to share? In what little I have gathered Micomsofts drivers are the way to go, I just fear the Japanese website might be hard to navigate. Still pretty new to this whole game so I am willing to learn..


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 Post subject: Re: Micomsoft SC-500N1 RGB Capture Card
PostPosted: Thu Jan 28, 2016 3:13 am 



Joined: 02 May 2013
Posts: 193
I don't know which driver truly is considered "best", but it has been generally-agreed-upon to stay far away from the 160 driver if you are interested in capturing RGB at low resolutions.


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 Post subject: Re: Micomsoft SC-500N1 RGB Capture Card
PostPosted: Thu Jan 28, 2016 11:04 am 



Joined: 23 Aug 2014
Posts: 2
mrsmiley381 wrote:
So has anyone had any experience putting multiples of this card in a PC and getting multiple video streams linked together? I was looking at AGDQ races and seeing what it would take to get a similar setup running.


I can confirm that multiple cards (4 tested in this instance) worked fine for me when tested on my PC.

However multiple PEXHDCAP card won't be detected on X99 chipsets. No issues with SC-512 though.


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 Post subject: Re: Micomsoft SC-500N1 RGB Capture Card
PostPosted: Thu Jan 28, 2016 2:54 pm 


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Joined: 08 Jan 2016
Posts: 275
Location: San Jose, CA
Subject: Micomsoft SC-500N1 RGB Capture Card

blizzz wrote:
mikejmoffitt, what exactly do you mean? I can't see anything that looks unusual in your video, but I've also never played the Famicom version of Parodius Da. If you mean the slight color shift, there's an option in AmarecTV to fix it.

I was referring to the color shift, yeah. It's happening in the YPbPr colorspace, though, so it's not just red shifting, it's the Pr channel shifting. AmarecTV's option did fix it, but I've been unable to get that software to record properly and I'd like to be able to fix the RGB input for use in other things like OBS.


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 Post subject: Re: Micomsoft SC-500N1 RGB Capture Card
PostPosted: Thu Jan 28, 2016 9:42 pm 



Joined: 02 May 2013
Posts: 193
So, using my PEXHDCAP with the 142 drivers (which as mentioned is the only version that allows me to capture/stream DOS games somewhat adequately), I'm noticing quite a few anomalies. Here's a couple examples of them.

Image
Image

The reason I call them anomalies, is that it doesn't show up on any monitor I have.


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 Post subject: Re: Micomsoft SC-500N1 RGB Capture Card
PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2016 7:21 am 


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Joined: 08 Jan 2016
Posts: 275
Location: San Jose, CA
That looks like image data is getting clamped as the black level, which is offsetting the rest of the line. See if the driver will let you manipulate horizontal phase / positioning, it may help.


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 Post subject: Re: Micomsoft SC-500N1 RGB Capture Card
PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2016 4:23 pm 



Joined: 02 May 2013
Posts: 193
I can try, but it is hard as the image always ends up off center (most of the time I can't see the "c:" portion of the DOS prompt). It also has trouble properly locking onto the 640x400 resolution (or at times the 640x576 resolution of PacPC2's fullscreen mode which runs at 58.64Hz).


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 Post subject: Re: Micomsoft SC-500N1 RGB Capture Card
PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2016 8:15 pm 


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Joined: 08 Jan 2016
Posts: 275
Location: San Jose, CA
An Extron device might be able to let you perform an H-Shift on it to help.


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 Post subject: Re: Micomsoft SC-500N1 RGB Capture Card
PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2016 9:54 pm 



Joined: 02 May 2013
Posts: 193
I do indeed have one. I will test it out and report back soon.

[Edit 1] I did try it out, and the card has an even harder time getting an image. The card has an easier time displaying an image either from pass-thru or direct connection from the primary display card (so no primary-to-Voodoo2 passthru).

[Edit 2] Got a screencap taken with the setup via the Extra RGB202 Plus. Even with the switch on to supposedly fix serration, the signal looks quite unstable still.
Image

[Edit 3] I'm thinking that maybe the PC graphics card isn't outputting a high enough voltage for its five signals? I tried playing through a level in DOOM again.. and it would get so dark in the preview window that I could barely see where I am.


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 Post subject: Re: Micomsoft SC-500N1 RGB Capture Card
PostPosted: Mon Feb 01, 2016 6:35 pm 



Joined: 02 May 2013
Posts: 193
Got another update from my DOS capture stuff. I broke out the multimeter, and (after quickly learning the hot lead was plugged into the wrong socket for voltage testing) learned that the Win98 box (and this could be true of any PC that runs DOS programs) was outputting 4.25-4.5v on hsync. Correct me if I'm wrong (usually am), but wouldn't this cause the issues I linked the screenshots of DOOM and Gateways to? I know it's nowhere NEAR as drastic as, say, 2.33v sync being output by a Model 2 Saturn, but it does worry me that not having the sync voltage as close to 5v as possible could cause such deficiencies.


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 Post subject: Re: Micomsoft SC-500N1 RGB Capture Card
PostPosted: Sat Feb 06, 2016 9:20 pm 



Joined: 02 May 2013
Posts: 193
Hmm, just posting because of an odd thing I noticed. Using an Extron RGB interface seems to make it much easier to use SCART cables without pure csync. I have one with sync-on-luma from Retrogaming Cables ordered a while back, and with a few adapters (SCART to BNC, BNC to VGA, VGA to DVI-I), it seems to work very well with it. So, I guess that's a plus for owners. Does make DOS unusable again.


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 Post subject: Re: Micomsoft SC-500N1 RGB Capture Card
PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2016 10:34 am 



Joined: 20 Sep 2011
Posts: 11
I'm thinking about picking up an SC-512N1 and I was wondering if you could plug RGBS directly into it or if syncstrikes are mandatory. Planning on using the duplicated RGBS connections on my BVM so it would be a lot faster to wire up a DE15 connector.

e: I guess I could try something with the EL4583.


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 Post subject: Re: Micomsoft SC-500N1 RGB Capture Card
PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2016 12:30 pm 



Joined: 02 May 2013
Posts: 193
So as long as the sync signal doesn't contain composite video or s-video luma, then yes. If it has either of those, you will need a sync separator.


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 Post subject: Re: Micomsoft SC-500N1 RGB Capture Card
PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2016 1:14 pm 



Joined: 20 Sep 2011
Posts: 11
NightSprinter wrote:
So as long as the sync signal doesn't contain composite video or s-video luma, then yes. If it has either of those, you will need a sync separator.


Thanks for the info. Do you know if an lm1881 would be good enough for sync seperation or do I have to spring for something like the EL4583.


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 Post subject: Re: Micomsoft SC-500N1 RGB Capture Card
PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2016 1:19 pm 



Joined: 02 May 2013
Posts: 193
I believe the standard LM1881 should suffice. However, that is all I am really aware of. Not sure if the other one outputs dedicated h/v or can separate sync on green and leave the color channel output.


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