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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 8:12 pm 



Joined: 12 May 2013
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Why are there modes for HDR? I thought HDR was a spec based on display performance and you either met static contrast and/or gamut or you didn't?


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 8:26 pm 


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It's not just a spec you meet. HDR involves using different colour spaces, it involves different perceptual processing, it involves processing colour calibration metadata, etc. It's a totally different processing mode.


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 8:49 pm 


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bobrocks95 wrote:
@Xyga a lot of Pro games are getting "60 FPS" patches that just unlock the framerate, hitting a constant 40-50. Pretty heavy-hitters like FFXV and Kingdom Hearts 0.2. Then there's plenty that just aren't quite hitting their 30 or 60 FPS mark. So I think VRR would be a big improvement, if there's a way to implement it where devs don't have to go back and patch it in.

Most of the patched/unpatched comparisons i've seen show perceptible improvements whether in resolution or framerate, it's not perfect everywhere - yes - there are drop in places etc.
But aren't we spoiled like rich PC gamers now ? It's a console, we've dealt with framerate drops and slowdowns magnitudes worse than that before.
If Microsoft want to give a new console all the bells and whistles of a modern PC, so be it, but frankly I can do with something like the PS4 Pro, even the Switch I don't care about technical perfection honestly.

@Guspaz; HDR also involves sorcery and snake oil. :mrgreen:
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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 9:19 pm 


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Meh, it's a much bigger difference/improvement than 4K, considering that most people won't be able to tell the difference between 1080p and 4K. The problem is that it's a big mess right now, with multiple competing similar but incompatible standards, with discs and displays typically only implementing one standard and not others.


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 10:00 pm 


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Xyga wrote:
bobrocks95 wrote:
@Xyga a lot of Pro games are getting "60 FPS" patches that just unlock the framerate, hitting a constant 40-50. Pretty heavy-hitters like FFXV and Kingdom Hearts 0.2. Then there's plenty that just aren't quite hitting their 30 or 60 FPS mark. So I think VRR would be a big improvement, if there's a way to implement it where devs don't have to go back and patch it in.

Most of the patched/unpatched comparisons i've seen show perceptible improvements whether in resolution or framerate, it's not perfect everywhere - yes - there are drop in places etc.
But aren't we spoiled like rich PC gamers now ? It's a console, we've dealt with framerate drops and slowdowns magnitudes worse than that before.
If Microsoft want to give a new console all the bells and whistles of a modern PC, so be it, but frankly I can do with something like the PS4 Pro, even the Switch I don't care about technical perfection honestly.


I'm not demanding perfection, but when their biggest competitor is now offering VRR, and with this whole "mid-gen refresh" thing going on, I'm more wary than ever to buy a console. The whole appeal of a set, locked system is gone, and I'm wondering how long I need to wait to not have the rug pulled out from underneath me with a definitively better version releasing a couple months later.


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 10:16 pm 


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I understand people would want all that, it's the natural technical evolution after all.

Even so nothing guarantees Sony won't release an even better PS5 just a year after the Scorpio...yeah

Anyway i'm content with a console as long as it's got enough good games, on the Microsoft side of things personally I've never been interested beyond the 360, so if they don't have a mindblowing bataillon of exclusive titles coming right away I'll probably wait again more, technical wonders or not.
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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 10:55 pm 


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Maybe it'll just become several years of a technical pissing contest and I should just buy a Switch :|


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2017 3:55 pm 



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Guspaz wrote:
It's not just a spec you meet. HDR involves using different colour spaces, it involves different perceptual processing, it involves processing colour calibration metadata, etc. It's a totally different processing mode.

Here I thought the display manufacturers were getting off their lazy arses. Nice to know it's a pointless spec that I should ignore, I suppose.

Is the contrast ratio spec real or is that more shenanigans too?


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2017 5:40 pm 


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Lord of Pirates wrote:
Guspaz wrote:
It's not just a spec you meet. HDR involves using different colour spaces, it involves different perceptual processing, it involves processing colour calibration metadata, etc. It's a totally different processing mode.

Here I thought the display manufacturers were getting off their lazy arses. Nice to know it's a pointless spec that I should ignore, I suppose.

Is the contrast ratio spec real or is that more shenanigans too?


I don't think anything Guspaz said made it sound pointless? It's just complex and easy to get wrong, so you should check reviews before purchasing a new set. Implementations seem to range from okay to fantastic.

The peak nits specs should be real- to be Dolby Vision certified (and I think HDR10 certified as well), you need to hit the required nits peak/low, which gives you an effective contrast ratio, though I guess it is for a small portion of the screen, i.e. a totally white screen will not be as bright as the peak nit rating (and you wouldn't want it to be).

They're also all supposed to be 10-bit panels which is a big improvement.


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2017 7:37 pm 


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Looking into switching my setup from SCART over to BNC cables so I can get an Extron Crosspoint for switching between consoles, does anyone have advice for getting into cable building?

I guess I would just like to see some examples so I can see how people are fitting the capacitors and resistors in their cables since there isn't a large SCART hood to stuff it all in. It would also be nice to see what people are using for cables and connectors for the consoles. Seems like it would be fairly easy to make cables for the consoles that use DIN connections.


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Sun Apr 16, 2017 6:48 pm 



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What types of sync does the Extron Crosspoint or Extron Crosspoint Ultra take for RGB/BNC connections (I'm looking at the 128 12x8 models with HVC audio)? I've read everywhere it needs "pure" or "clean" sync which is the same thing as composite sync and csync, right? My NTSC RGBNES (toaster w/ SNES/Gamecube style multi-out), NTSC 'phat' SNES, and NTSC Sega Genesis Version 1 all use retro_console_accessories csync cables. I know my PS1 is sync on Luma and will need a sync stripper.

BUT, two different friends I PM'd told me that select systems which were using csync cables STILL needed a sync stripper for some reason? Just trying to figure out what I'm going to need to get an Extron to work (and if an Extron will even work for me).

I'm also planning on using the same Extron Crosspoint for some component connections too - which I'm assuming don't have any limitations like the above.


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 1:20 pm 


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I've got a crosspoint in the mail coming to me sometime this week hopefully. I will report back if luma and composite video sync work, as I'm currently using luma for my Saturn and composite video as sync with my TG-16.


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 8:34 pm 



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Shoryukev wrote:
I've got a crosspoint in the mail coming to me sometime this week hopefully. I will report back if luma and composite video sync work, as I'm currently using luma for my Saturn and composite video as sync with my TG-16.


Thank you. I hope it works for you (and for me!) but I don't think anything except csync will work unfortunately from the more research I've done so far.

I was actually told that there's an Extron Crosspoint model which has built in sync stripping....but I think the person might have been confusing that with their ADSP (Advanced Digital Sync Processing) Extron advertises as a feature – which I'm pretty sure doesn't do sync stripping.


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 10:04 am 


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Does anyone know of an automatic 2xRCA switcher with at least 4 inputs (and maybe 2 outputs)? My (old) hi-fi system only has one RCA input and I'm only finding 2-to-1 solutions online (and quite pricey as well: http://www.mcmelectronics.com/product/5 ... 3FFA8C626B ). To me it doesn't make sense to consider automatic SCART and Component switchers until I've found a similar solution for audio. Am I missing something here? Do people convert RCA to sth else, and if yes what do you use?


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 10:55 am 



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Xer Xian wrote:
Does anyone know of an automatic 2xRCA switcher with at least 4 inputs (and maybe 2 outputs)? My (old) hi-fi system only has one RCA input and I'm only finding 2-to-1 solutions online (and quite pricey as well: http://www.mcmelectronics.com/product/5 ... 3FFA8C626B ). To me it doesn't make sense to consider automatic SCART and Component switchers until I've found a similar solution for audio. Am I missing something here? Do people convert RCA to sth else, and if yes what do you use?

Going to need a whole lot more details of what you're planning to connect and how.

If you're planning on getting a gscartsw it would be simple (in theory): connect RCA out from your component switch into port 8 of the gscartsw and all your audio would be going through the gscartsw. You could do the same with other switches with a default passthrough port, but I'm unsure how common that feature is.

Not sure why you ever would need 4 inputs at any rate, most component switchers have RCA out. For SCART switchers they usually have some audio output too or you can just use a breakout adapter. You would need 1 input for SCART, 1 for component and...?


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 12:37 pm 


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ZellSF wrote:
You would need 1 input for SCART, 1 for component and...?

... 1 for VGA (Xbox 360, since the DC goes through a Toro) and 1 spare in case I'd ever want to add scanlines to a console with digital out via Hdfury+OSSC. I guess I could get a Component cable for the Xbox 360 as well, in which case a 2xRCA switcher would effectively be enough (well, it'd be the bare minimum).

Btw it now dawned on me that I could use a second gcompsw for just audio switching. It'd a bit overkill, but it should work. Another solution might be to use optical audio out for Component consoles so as to preserve some of the switcher's RCA connectors to route other audio signals. Thing is, I only have one optical audio in too :lol:

I think I might ask SuperG if he'd consider making a 2xRCA switcher only, although I don't know if there'd be any significant price difference between that and a full blown gcompsw.


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 1:18 pm 



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Xer Xian wrote:
ZellSF wrote:
You would need 1 input for SCART, 1 for component and...?

... 1 for VGA (Xbox 360, since the DC goes through a Toro) and 1 spare in case I'd ever want to add scanlines to a console with digital out via Hdfury+OSSC. I guess I could get a Component cable for the Xbox 360 as well, in which case a 2xRCA switcher would effectively be enough (well, it'd be the bare minimum).

Btw it now dawned on me that I could use a second gcompsw for just audio switching. It'd a bit overkill, but it should work. Another solution might be to use optical audio out for Component consoles so as to preserve some of the switcher's RCA connectors to route other audio signals. Thing is, I only have one optical audio in too :lol:

I think I might ask SuperG if he'd consider making a 2xRCA switcher only, although I don't know if there'd be any significant price difference between that and a full blown gcompsw.

My Xbox 360 came with component cables. They're probably very cheap if they were included in some SKUs.

I don't think the gcompsw will work as a pure audio switcher, it needs a video signal and has no default passthrough input.


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 1:32 pm 


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Well nevermind, I guess that was just some wishful thinking on my part.

Anyways it's odd that no one's ever had any problem with audio routing apparently - maybe I just need to upgrade my hi-fi :)


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 1:14 am 


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Dochartaigh wrote:
What types of sync does the Extron Crosspoint or Extron Crosspoint Ultra take for RGB/BNC connections (I'm looking at the 128 12x8 models with HVC audio)? I've read everywhere it needs "pure" or "clean" sync which is the same thing as composite sync and csync, right? My NTSC RGBNES (toaster w/ SNES/Gamecube style multi-out), NTSC 'phat' SNES, and NTSC Sega Genesis Version 1 all use retro_console_accessories csync cables. I know my PS1 is sync on Luma and will need a sync stripper.

BUT, two different friends I PM'd told me that select systems which were using csync cables STILL needed a sync stripper for some reason? Just trying to figure out what I'm going to need to get an Extron to work (and if an Extron will even work for me).

I'm also planning on using the same Extron Crosspoint for some component connections too - which I'm assuming don't have any limitations like the above.


I have an Extron Crosspoint Ultra 450 series, imported from the States down to Australia, and I can confirm that they do indeed require CSYNC. With anything that outputs CSYNC naturally, all you need are cables that do passthrough sync, as in they don't do anything to the signal coming from the console and they're usually labelled as CSYNC cables or whatever. For things that don't output CSYNC straight from the console, as in most PAL systems, you'll need cables with sync strippers in them. For example, I have a PAL SNES and an NTSC SNES-mini. The mini has cables that simply output the CSYNC straight from the RGB chip in the console, while the PAL unit requires a cable with a sync stripper attached so the Crosspoint will accept it like the fussy baby that it is.

From my setup I have:

PAL SNES: sync stripper
NTSC SNES-mini: passthrough
PS1: sync stripper
N64RGB: passthrough (wired for csync internally)


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 2:56 am 


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Can someone tell me what's the best way to mod a SFC for CSync?

I've read stuff online to the effect that it's feasible and relatively easy, but not two mods I've come across seem to be exactly the same... so I ask you guys on here for the best way to do it.

my machine is a 1Chip-02 Super Famicom.


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 5:17 am 



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I've been wondering about making a mod to one of my PS2 component cables for RGsB and to get sync on green. I understand I would have to add sync myself to make it work. Is there a way to strip sync from the composite lead to do this so 240p/480i/480p will be compatible to sources that accept it?
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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 2:10 pm 



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Chomolonzo wrote:
I have an Extron Crosspoint Ultra 450 series, imported from the States down to Australia, and I can confirm that they do indeed require CSYNC


Thank you for the confirmation! ...need to get a sync stripper for my PS1/2 as I thought.


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 9:14 pm 


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Does an Extron Crosspoint have to have something connected on both the input and output to be able to create a tie? I don't have all my cables yet but I had my SNES connected via Csync (with nothing connected to an output) and I couldn't get it to create a tie.

I press ESC to clear, then RGBHV and it lights, an input and it lights....but when I press output it doesn't light, but the RGBHV and Audio lights blink. I press enter after that and again nothing happens other than the two lights blink.

The only way I can get the output LEDs to light up is to press VIEW and they all light up. I'm wondering if the unit I just got is broken, waiting several days for my output cable sucks. This is a crosspoint 300 with 8in/4out.

I'm reading the manual and looking for info and I'm stumped until I get more cables.

EDIT: I fixed it by doing a factory reset over and over using front panel and rear panel methods. After resetting it about 5 times it magically works......I have no idea why lol


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Sat Apr 22, 2017 6:07 am 



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Just got me a consumer crt and was wondering what would give me the best picture quality. Either a SCART to component adapter or just straight up component?


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Sat Apr 22, 2017 7:41 am 


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With a few exceptions (PS2?) since your TV only supports component, you should use the native component video output of the console. If the console doesn't support component, then RGB to YPbPr (SCART to component) is the way to go, using something like a Shinybow SB-2840.

If you can get your hands on some HD Retrovision component video cables, those should be used instead of the SCART-to-Component solution, because they're very well made and you can be sure they're not going to have audio buzz, that they're not going to be wired wrong like some SCART cables are, they're not going to have sync interference, etc.


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Sat Apr 22, 2017 1:58 pm 


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I have never noticed any difference between rgb and component quality on PS2 on a crt. Frankly I think it's an overblown concern.


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Sat Apr 22, 2017 4:23 pm 


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Einzelherz wrote:
I have never noticed any difference between rgb and component quality on PS2 on a crt. Frankly I think it's an overblown concern.

same. I also think this as been blown out of proportions. There seems to be some misconceptions floating online.

From what I remember, what as been tested and confirmed as problematic was how the Framemeister handles the PS2's component signal. Are there other upscalers that suffer from that?

On a CRT it is absolutely not a problem, I agree with you Einzelherz

It'd be nice to have a definitive list of hardware that has trouble with the PS2's component output somewhere online, all in one post or web page


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Sat Apr 22, 2017 4:30 pm 


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The only flaw I have ever seen from the PS2's component through doublers/scalers is some signal noise, essentially when the cooling fan is running.
I've rarely used it on a crt though, none were really ideal for the job over here.

PS: also the colors aren't as vivid as RGB but heh.
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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 1:15 pm 


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I want to get a SNES (PAL) with region free 50/60hz mod.

Now I read there are some issues with standard lockout disabling mods: graphic glitches when playing games on 60hz mode on PAL system. Does the SuperCIC mod eliminate these problems? Anything else I need to check? Not looking into 1CHIP model btw.


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 2:14 pm 



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How can I get an 8:7 aspect ratio from the NES and SNES original hardware? 4:3 is what "the developers intended", but I want square pixels and even proportions.


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