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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Sat Mar 25, 2017 2:37 pm 


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jay wrote:
All four corners are blurry, the image seems to distort more than I'd find normal during transitions of dark/bright scenes (might be my imagination), and there is some weird distortion happening on the left edge of the screen that look like uneven scanlines.

Anyone have any idea as to what may be causing these?


http://www.arcaderepairtips.com/2014/02 ... ence-tips/


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Sun Mar 26, 2017 4:47 am 



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Can the Bandridge SVB7725 Manual SCART Switch used as SCART SPLITTER? Well, I say splitter, but I really mean output selector.

Since the Bandridge SVB7725 5 Way Scart Switch is a non powered manual switch, can I reverse the inputs and output to use it as a manual output selector?

Basically I'd put an INPUT signal into the OUTPUT socket, and my outputs cables into the INPUT sockets, and select the output I require with the front of the switch?

I don't mind doing minor modifications to the inside of the switch if necessary.


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Mon Mar 27, 2017 4:33 pm 


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What's an available lagless arcade stick board compatible with the 360 please ?

EDIT: are you really stuck with buying an Hori VX-SA when you want a lagless stick for the 360 ? seriously that thing goes for absolutely ridiculous prices today.
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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Mon Mar 27, 2017 11:28 pm 



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Can anyone recommend a decent, but not too expensive converter to convert regular 4-pin S-Video to component? My Sony KV-20FS120 doesn't have S-Video like my 27" version of this TV does (but it does have YPbPr component).

OR, maybe it's better to go from the RGB SCART cables I have to component?


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2017 12:00 am 


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S-Video and component are very different signals, so you'd need an NTSC decoder to handle the colour signal, and yes, some sort of converter box would be required. The typical $80 one is (according to VideoGamePerfection) not suitable for gaming, and I can't think of any other ones off the top of my head (most people are concerned in going the opposite direction). Maybe some sort of scaler that can output 480i? Probably more expensive, though.

Yes, RGB to component is a much simpler and higher quality conversion. Good converters are around $75, cheap clones that can work decently if you open them up and manually tweak potentiometers are $50.


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2017 1:36 pm 


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Xyga wrote:
What's an available lagless arcade stick board compatible with the 360 please ?

EDIT: are you really stuck with buying an Hori VX-SA when you want a lagless stick for the 360 ? seriously that thing goes for absolutely ridiculous prices today.

Well, you aimed at the best of the bunch there, what did you expect?
A quick ebay search yielded this (also available here with some crappy stick and buttons), but I wouldn't know if it's actually lagless. Better to ask him about 360 compatibility beforehand too, the "Xbox 360 for Windows" bit is weird.

Another option is to look for a regular HRAP EX or Madcatz TE and replace the buttons and eventually the stick, they pop up on ebay once in a while and are reasonably priced (an HRAP EX listing ended at €40 around a month ago on ebay Italy). PS1/2 Stick + adapter is another viable solution.


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2017 3:10 pm 


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Thanks I'll investigate that one!

The thing about the MadCatz is that according to that website they're definitely not completely delay-free: http://www.teyah.net/sticklag/results.html
And I really need 0ms like in zero.
Well... I could go for one of the A-tier list (at worst) but they're also either long discontinued or very hard to find/very expensive.

On the pcb side I was going to go for the PS360+ but it's not lagless with the 360.
Adapters are really hit or miss, few are really lagless also, some introduce the most lag in any solution.
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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2017 5:05 pm 


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Quote:
The thing about the MadCatz is that according to that website they're definitely not completely delay-free: http://www.teyah.net/sticklag/results.html
And I really need 0ms like in zero.


Cool stuff. I am sure the author of the experiment know this stuff way better than me and I don't mean to sound like an ass, but is this really a valid methodology where the lag is measeured based on the game responding to a particular mechanic (same-frame throw command) but then it is translated into milliseconds? Wouldn't it be better to measure the actual lag in milliseconds by using some sort of stop-watch app like when they test monitors? Having said that I really don't know if it is actually possible on consoles.


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2017 5:27 pm 


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Yeah, take the reported lags with a grain of salt - the guy took the time to write a very informative overview from which it's clear that the result of the testing is just a list of wins, losses and ties and some kind of formula (that treats each win/loss in terms of integer frames difference) is used to extract ms ratings. Also, it's not entirely clear how he selected the reference stick in each category (he probably used some external source for that, but I didn't see it reported). Of course, that's not to say that his results (or better, his ranks) are wrong - actually It's a shame that he didn't manage to test the HRAP EX series, which is among the most popular choices for the Xbox 360.

I agree that with adapters it's a hit or miss situation, but the xtokki PS2 to 360 converter is generally considered to be among the best, f you can find it. Also, I think I've read that the Hori fighting stick VX shares the same pcb as the Hori VX-SA, but I wouldn't remember where (most likely somewhere on the SRK forum).


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2017 5:41 pm 


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Yeah I don't know about that guy's method and sticks/controllers aren't my forte, but that's the only reference list I could find.

Used HRAP EX are defnitely more affordable than the VX-SA (no info on the lag though), and thanks for reminding me about the basic VX, I'll investigate it as well.

PS: everything '*tokki' I was ever interested in I could never get/find. Adapters and pcb's become obscure and elusive once they're sold out, even more so than the sticks themselves.

EDIT: Ordered a much more affordable VX off ebay (people indeed say it's the same board as the SA), coz I don't have enough time and parts to build a stick from scratch anyway. I read shoving an LS-56 in isn't the easiest thing though. Whatever, as long as the lagless requirement is fulfilled all is good.
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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 3:01 pm 


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That's not a bad choice at all (I've got a Hori VX myself, and it's the only 360 stick I've kept), but if you ever happen to find an HRAP EX for cheap I'd snap it up anyway - personally I regret not getting the one that went for €40. A superior lever is worth risking up to 10-15ms more latency imho (unless your setup is already overflowing with lag left and right, but knowing you that's certainly not the case). Of course if you ever feel like modding the VX then great - a JLF should fit in more easily btw, and buttons are not so bad as to absolutely need a replacement.

powerfuran wrote:
Wouldn't it be better to measure the actual lag in milliseconds by using some sort of stop-watch app like when they test monitors? Having said that I really don't know if it is actually possible on consoles.

Actually I've been thinking about that method to measure controller's input lag, and now I tend to believe that doing any better is really non-trivial. Making a controller comparison through a high refresh rate camera and two (identical) setups will still add more variables with no clear advantage *, and direct, non-referenced results (that for displays are possible by using the Leo Bodnar device) are probably very difficult - can you build a device that measures processing lag at the logic level of the board? Probably, but who's gonna do it? :) A more feasible way to improve on his results would be to test the sticks with games (and displays) that run at more than 60Hz (making sure that the polling rates for the two controller ports are exactly the same would also be nice). Of course, it's still gonna be differential lags and not absolute.

* Edit: Actually I remind now of reading on the SRK forum about using a high refresh camera to measure absolute delay between an illuminated button push and a CRT screen update. However, for very precise results the screen would still need to run at high refresh rates..

So yeah, the methodology employed in his testing is good, as in, statistically sound. The button presses will be uniformly distributed across the frame and averaging over 1000 repetitions is surely enough to tame most of the intrinsic variability and get a relevant (differential) ms figure (btw it should be possible to calculate a confidence interval for the population/real mean too). I'll just shoot a number out of my ass and say that those lag figures can be trusted down to +/-2ms (of additional latency wrt the reference stick, whose source for the quoted "0.00" lag was unfortunately not provided). There's a minor assumption that must be made for this to hold though - i.e. that the consoles' polling rates of the controller ports are the same as, and synced to, the game refresh rate (60hz) or else, if they are different (which may well be, for example the USB 2.0 standard polling rate is 125Hz or 8ms), that the consoles render to screen all inputs polled in the same frame (but different polling cycle) in the following one, which is how it should be really.


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 4:29 pm 


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Xer Xian wrote:
That's not a bad choice at all (I've got a Hori VX myself, and it's the only 360 stick I've kept), but if you ever happen to find an HRAP EX for cheap I'd snap it up anyway - personally I regret not getting the one that went for €40. A superior lever is worth risking up to 10-15ms more latency imho (unless your setup is already overflowing with lag left and right, but knowing you that's certainly not the case).

I'm actually changing my main shmupping corner to a maximum-1-frame-bottom-bar lcd setup, or very close, so every millisecond counts.
For a long time I've been okay being around a total of 1.5~2 frames (bottom bar) for most of my 'lcd side' gaming whatever genre (otherwise I'm crt-ing) but I suddenly got the urge to play more and more seriously on the flat panel(s) hence the changes.
Basically taking a 0 or very-near-zero ms lcd (top bar), then removing the DVDO and shitty brawlstick that I'm convinced is laggy-enough to ruin my mojo.
Just the 360 and OSSC direct to the fast lcd + lagless controls.
Xer Xian wrote:
Of course if you ever feel like modding the VX then great - a JLF should fit in more easily btw

Seimitsu oblige :wink: JLFs aren't my thing.
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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2017 1:17 pm 


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Is this an accurate pinout for Genesis style 2 SCART? I ask because I bought a cheap SCART cable that has a loud audio hum and some noise in the video and it doesn't have the ground chained together like that. There is one wire connected to pin 4 and one seperate wire connected to pin 18....and that's it.

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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2017 4:36 pm 



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Not really a hardware question, but does anybody know if Amarec's live output has to be in RGB? The conversion from YUY2 results in inaccurate colors. Converting back to YUY2 obviously doesn't restore it all the way. I can record lossless footage with MPC-BE (not HC for some reason), and if I'm using the Haali Video Renderer, I can capture the renderer window as a game source in OBS Studio. This gives me accurate colors, but unfortunately, the Haali renderer makes the image a bit fuzzy due to scaling (I think this is the problem, even though the output is the same resolution). This is not an issue when going the graphedit/graphstudio route though. That way I can more or less get the same quality as I get from Amarec Live. It doesn't really make sense.

I have looked into using Avisynth as a directshow capture device, but it only works in certain media players for me. Amarec, Virtualdub and OBS Studio crashes. I'm currently using an OSSC + Micomsoft SC-512N capture card, and it's working wonders in all other aspects.

The point of this is that I want to record lossless footage while I'm streaming. Amarec has a nice solution, but the colors of the live output are inaccurate. Would be nice if it could output YUY2. Does anyone have any suggestions?


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Fri Mar 31, 2017 2:05 am 



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So when are we going to make dithering a focal point?

Shouldn't the OSSC be capable of doing this with two fields or something? I've seen it done with the Kega Fusion emulator and it has always been obvious to me that there's far more then just the Genesis/Mega Drive that supported it. A number of games just look terrible without any.
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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Fri Mar 31, 2017 5:41 am 


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You want to do what exactly with dithering? Apply a blur filter?


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Fri Mar 31, 2017 7:56 am 



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Guspaz wrote:
You want to do what exactly with dithering? Apply a blur filter?


Far more then that.

Dithering applies transparencies, drop shadows, additional colors, etc. Plus they go great together with scanlines once they're enabled.

If you ever played any number of games where the majority of their graphics have checkerboards all over the place, then it's obvious there is supposed to be an effect taking hold. I know we're this close to perfection and future proofing our systems, but it's quite imperative that we need to get this last technique nailed down. Look at any of the posts/threads that have talked about this and for any demonstrations that have been shown, you need to take a note that you're not currently playing the games the way the developers originally intended.

I will mention that the OSSC is doing something like this already when it comes to it's bob interlacing. As I said it's some kind of a two field process, so if we can manage a mode where x2 of the same image can be spliced into itself then we may be likely to gain that effect (in theory). Of course Marqs could also talk to whoever made that mode work for the emulator I mentioned earlier.
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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Fri Mar 31, 2017 8:35 am 



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headlesshobbs wrote:
Guspaz wrote:
You want to do what exactly with dithering? Apply a blur filter?


Far more then that.

Dithering applies transparencies, drop shadows, additional colors, etc. Plus they go great together with scanlines once they're enabled.

If you ever played any number of games where the majority of their graphics have checkerboards all over the place, then it's obvious there is supposed to be an effect taking hold. I know we're this close to perfection and future proofing our systems, but it's quite imperative that we need to get this last technique nailed down. Look at any of the posts/threads that have talked about this and for any demonstrations that have been shown, you need to take a note that you're not currently playing the games the way the developers originally intended.

The OSSC doesn't support composite, which is what you need for composite optimized dithering to look as originally intended. A RGB to HDMI scaler that looks "as intended" simulating composite properly dealing with dithering would require a 4K screen and probably some pretty complicated scaling to look correct.

I think most of us are pretty aware that we're not playing games as intended, but we prefer the much sharper RGB output.


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Fri Mar 31, 2017 8:41 am 


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Or you can smear butter all over the screen. Works fine.

That aside weren't there people cooking filters for the OSSC ?
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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Sat Apr 01, 2017 10:53 pm 


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I purchased an RGB modded N64 and there appears to be something wrong with it. On some games I appear to be getting a smeared image with weird rainbow-like artifacts. But some games are perfectly fine. Does anyone know what might be going on? I couldn't fix something like this with a better quality SCART cable, could I? I'm worried there's something wrong with the mod. : /

Here's an example of what I'm talking about:
Spoiler: show
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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2017 11:45 am 



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Is your rgb mod one of the latest tim's board flashed with de-blur?
Because that looks like 15 bit mode turned on.


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2017 4:24 pm 


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tacoguy64 wrote:
Is your rgb mod one of the latest tim's board flashed with de-blur?
Because that looks like 15 bit mode turned on.

Yes, though I didn't know about 15-bit color mode. Is that really all that is? FML. I broke this thing further attempting to fix it. When I opened it to try to see what was going on, the Green wire got disconnected from the motherboard. I tried and failed to reconnect it and now can't get any picture. Just goes to show some people shouldn't try to do modwork I guess. Now I have to figure out if I can get this fixed.


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2017 4:35 pm 


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For some games it can improve picture quality by reducing noise, but I don't think for very many. Your modder should have told you about it, I think it's on them for not telling you.


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2017 4:47 pm 


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bobrocks95 wrote:
For some games it can improve picture quality by reducing noise, but I don't think for very many. Your modder should have told you about it, I think it's on them for not telling you.



That may be true, but everything I did that broke the system is on me. I could try to contact them and see what they can do, but reading the policy on their website, they only accept returns for items that arrived non-working, not items that don't work due to my incompetent stupidity. I don't really want to ship it back to them if it's going to cost me anything, so I might just try to take it to a local retro store that I believe does repairs.


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2017 4:51 pm 


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If they won't resolder a single wire for free (with you paying shipping) I'd say they're a pretty crappy modding service.


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2017 4:55 pm 


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bobrocks95 wrote:
If they won't resolder a single wire for free (with you paying shipping) I'd say they're a pretty crappy modding service.


I may have done some other damage when I tried to resolder the wire myself. I probably should have explored that option as soon as I realized something was wrong, but I thought it wouldn't be too hard to solder a single wire...unless you're me I guess... : (

Regardless, I think (hope?) these guys at this store will be able to fix it for me for cheaper than shipping to and from Japan anyway.


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2017 9:42 pm 


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Oh gosh, Japan. Unless you lifted a pad any service should be able to do it.


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Mon Apr 03, 2017 1:38 am 


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So they were able to fix it for me but the question still remains of how to toggle 15-bit color mode. There's no switch or anything to do so.


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Mon Apr 03, 2017 2:19 am 


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If it has Borti's firmware with In-game Routines (IGR) enabled, there's a button combination for turning it off- D-Pad up + L + R + C-up

The problem is Borti's firmware should be defaulting to it off. I think you'll need to take pics of your installation for us.


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Mon Apr 03, 2017 3:00 am 


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bobrocks95 wrote:
If it has Borti's firmware with In-game Routines (IGR) enabled, there's a button combination for turning it off- D-Pad up + L + R + C-up

The problem is Borti's firmware should be defaulting to it off. I think you'll need to take pics of your installation for us.


I have attempted that already to no avail. I just need to press that combination at any time during the game, right? It doesn't appear to be working.

Here is a picture of the RGB board. If you need any others, just ask. Thanks for your help:
Spoiler: show
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