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 Post subject: Re: New (upcoming) Scanline generator SLG3000
PostPosted: Thu Feb 03, 2011 11:19 am 


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Animaitor wrote:
Strider77, how do you set your 360 to output 480i? I though the 640X480 from the console's resolution setting was always progressive. I'm using the VGA cable to hook it up on my LCD, by the way.


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 Post subject: Re: New (upcoming) Scanline generator SLG3000
PostPosted: Thu Feb 03, 2011 12:30 pm 


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He wrote that he uses VGA *and* component. With component or a Scart RGBs cable he can of course set the output to 480i.


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 Post subject: Re: New (upcoming) Scanline generator SLG3000
PostPosted: Thu Feb 03, 2011 12:59 pm 


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That make sense. The component input on my LCD looks terrible... I might try to feed the XRGB-3 with 480i from the 360 and later add the SLG3000 to my Dell monitor to see how that looks as Strider77 suggest.
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 Post subject: Re: New (upcoming) Scanline generator SLG3000
PostPosted: Thu Feb 03, 2011 5:00 pm 


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unrelated, but please somebody buy this

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... SS:US:1123

Check ZOM's picture in this thread. The seller had it listed a few weeks ago already and it didn't sell. For $50 that's a steal, even it's a revision without RGBs and component only.

(EDIT: gone. Who bought it ? Anyone from here ?)


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 Post subject: Re: New (upcoming) Scanline generator SLG3000
PostPosted: Thu Feb 03, 2011 5:55 pm 


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Ended at 75 bucks - that's a good price for a Holo 1. I hope someone in here got it.
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 Post subject: Re: New (upcoming) Scanline generator SLG3000
PostPosted: Thu Feb 03, 2011 6:05 pm 


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philexile did. $75 was buy-it-now. It was listed at $50 start price and didn't sell the last time around.


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 Post subject: Re: New (upcoming) Scanline generator SLG3000
PostPosted: Thu Feb 03, 2011 6:10 pm 


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Nice to hear. I'm actually surprised that no one got it the first time around - it's priced less than a Vigatec FX2 and performs just as good(if not better) but with added functionality (lots of added funcionality). I guess some might get turned off because it's "just a card" and needs a system.
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 Post subject: Re: New (upcoming) Scanline generator SLG3000
PostPosted: Thu Feb 03, 2011 6:58 pm 



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Yes, thanks for the tip Fudoh!

I'm actually going to be keeping my eye out for a nice micro atx case for it. The one I was looking at, Silverstone LC19, is still pretty pricey at $200+ and I was hoping to get one for less than that. Any recommendations would be appreciated.

Thanks!


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 Post subject: Re: New (upcoming) Scanline generator SLG3000
PostPosted: Thu Feb 03, 2011 7:32 pm 


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The Silverstone is pretty nice, but it has space for only one PCI card via riser though, so you'd have to use the onboard graphics card. This works (ZOM has got it running this way), but you will likely encounter more processing lag than compared to a proper PCIx16 graphics card. I had planned something like the Silverstone SG04 before cancelling the project and selling the Holo II to ZOM.


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 Post subject: Re: New (upcoming) Scanline generator SLG3000
PostPosted: Thu Feb 03, 2011 7:47 pm 


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@philexile
Yeah... you will discover that finding a suitable case for building a holo-HTPC proves to be a bit more difficult than one might think.
Granted, with the additional RGBHV-out addon and the 2nd input board, I had it a tad bit harder, so I had to settle for something mid-size.
Actually, I'm still trying to find a solution since I'm pretty sure the on-board Intel GMA is slowing things down a bit. I wonder if those new-ish nvidia mini-itx boards will change something...

BTW, the problem with looking for a suitable mini-case isn't the "height" of the unit, it's the "depth" :wink:
Instead of a riser card, I recommend something more flexible like a cable; I'm using something like this: http://www.mini-itx.com/store/?c=8
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 Post subject: Re: New (upcoming) Scanline generator SLG3000
PostPosted: Thu Feb 03, 2011 9:06 pm 



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Ya, I was actually going to ask you about that. Maybe it would be wise (if its possible) to build a more modern micro system. This way I can use it as a media center as well and maybe even for some MAME stuff. I really prefer the XBOX1 for MAME, but there is a lot of newer stuff it just won't play - like more modern SHMUPS.

Thanks


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 Post subject: Re: New (upcoming) Scanline generator SLG3000
PostPosted: Thu Feb 03, 2011 11:03 pm 



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For anyone that is interested.....

I had delivered one of the Ebay CGA/EGA to VGA convertors http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Video-Converter-P ... 27adbc143c today and tried it with connecting various inputs (PS2 component, SNES RGB SCART etc) and the picture quality is good for the price of the scaler. I believe these use the same chipset as the HDBOXPRO and the results are very good with the SLG in-line showing scanlines on a LCD. This scaler certainly gives a better picture than my previous "cheap" one. You have to mess around with the sync signal to allow it to accept a converted SCART RGB feed, but it will work with this kind of signal (especially useful for us EU retro console owners). Has a great benefit of accepting component, JAMMA and of course a SCART RGB signal (in the end).

Overall very impressed with the results.

Gash camera quality but you get the idea.....

(PS2 RGB SCART -> EBAY SCALER -> SLG3000) MvC2
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 Post subject: Re: New (upcoming) Scanline generator SLG3000
PostPosted: Thu Feb 03, 2011 11:29 pm 


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Could you test a game with 30Hz drop shadows on this converter board ?


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 Post subject: Re: New (upcoming) Scanline generator SLG3000
PostPosted: Thu Feb 03, 2011 11:35 pm 



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Name a game and I will see if I have it to test. :)
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 Post subject: Re: New (upcoming) Scanline generator SLG3000
PostPosted: Fri Feb 04, 2011 12:00 am 


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For example ESPGaluda on PS2 when running in 240p (TATE). The shadows of the airships on the ground are flickering with 30Hz. What you see on the left side here:

Image

Not every deinterlacer can display this properly. If a upscaler tries to deinterlace them, you get visible errors, often combing errors between the actual shadows and the ground they're covering.


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 Post subject: Re: New (upcoming) Scanline generator SLG3000
PostPosted: Fri Feb 04, 2011 12:11 am 


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MvC2 on PS2 is 480i right? You should try booting into 480p with Xploder or GSM, the HD Box (and clones, I presume) do a much better job with progressive signals, I never liked the deinterlacing.


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 Post subject: Re: New (upcoming) Scanline generator SLG3000
PostPosted: Fri Feb 04, 2011 7:35 am 



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Fudoh wrote:
Could you test a game with 30Hz drop shadows on this converter board ?


It displays errors.
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 Post subject: Re: New (upcoming) Scanline generator SLG3000
PostPosted: Fri Feb 04, 2011 7:49 am 



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I received mine last night. Number 052. I probably won't test mine for ages.
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 Post subject: Re: New (upcoming) Scanline generator SLG3000
PostPosted: Fri Feb 04, 2011 9:18 am 



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Boy I've been keeping busy and look at all the stuff I'm missing! :shock:

That's really impressive with all the shots posted so far and i'm glad for Dreamcast owners it's a dream come true for capcom fighters. Now a couple of questions. 1. Running YUV directly appears to be possible, but does it really give a greenish tint to all displays or is that just the result of some settings? 2. Ebay scaler?? Does this happen to be anything to do with that CGA/VGA converter? 3. Does the unit still have RGB effects settings and if not, what about adjusting sharpness considering VGA makes pixels way too sharp? (For that, I'm looking at dithering effects aiming at Sonic 1 and Comix Zone if you know exactly what I'm talking about here)
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 Post subject: Re: New (upcoming) Scanline generator SLG3000
PostPosted: Fri Feb 04, 2011 9:33 am 


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Quote:
1. Running YUV directly appears to be possible, but does it really give a greenish tint to all displays or is that just the result of some settings?

It's not recommended, it only works under certain conditions and yes, it will always tint the screen. That's because the SLG3000 uses three resistors to tune the scanline intensity, one for each color channel. A component signal has only two color channels, so you're effecting the luminance channel with the third resistor.... Anyway, don't do it. You can get cheap and good YUV to VGA transcoders which will do a good job on converting the input signal.

Quote:
2. Ebay scaler?? Does this happen to be anything to do with that CGA/VGA converter?

He refered to the CGA/VGA converter with "Ebay scaler"....

Quote:
3. Does the unit still have RGB effects settings and if not, what about adjusting sharpness considering VGA makes pixels way too sharp? (For that, I'm looking at dithering effects aiming at Sonic 1 and Comix Zone if you know exactly what I'm talking about here)

that's not true for linedoubled signals. A linedoubled 15khz signal is very close to a CRT's visible sharpness and also native VGA usually only appears "too" sharp on native VGA displays or CRTs. If you're using a High-Def LCD or Plasma (like many of us on the screenshots shown) the upscaling from 480p to 1080p will blur the picture to an extend where you again achieve a very CRT-ish look.


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 Post subject: Re: New (upcoming) Scanline generator SLG3000
PostPosted: Fri Feb 04, 2011 10:08 am 



Joined: 04 Jul 2010
Posts: 146
Interesting.

Well I have to find out what device or type of adapter will be useful in controlling sharpness when it comes to VGA because Dreamcast games don't have anything to filter them once I have the box hooked in. MvC and CvSNK would be great with scanlines, but considering 31khz is too fine a quality, I'll still get that jaggy non-authentic look. This is a considerable problem for me as I only have a CRT to work with.
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 Post subject: Re: New (upcoming) Scanline generator SLG3000
PostPosted: Fri Feb 04, 2011 11:36 am 


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I would give a try first. Usually the scanline overlay already softens the image impression (while not technically, at least that's what most users see).


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 Post subject: Re: New (upcoming) Scanline generator SLG3000
PostPosted: Fri Feb 04, 2011 11:41 am 



Joined: 19 Mar 2010
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headlesshobbs wrote:
Boy I've been keeping busy and look at all the stuff I'm missing! :shock:

That's really impressive with all the shots posted so far and i'm glad for Dreamcast owners it's a dream come true for capcom fighters. Now a couple of questions. 1. Running YUV directly appears to be possible, but does it really give a greenish tint to all displays or is that just the result of some settings? 2. Ebay scaler?? Does this happen to be anything to do with that CGA/VGA converter? 3. Does the unit still have RGB effects settings and if not, what about adjusting sharpness considering VGA makes pixels way too sharp? (For that, I'm looking at dithering effects aiming at Sonic 1 and Comix Zone if you know exactly what I'm talking about here)


Let me explain it in greater detail.....

For this *specific* remit I wanted to be able to take a retro console SCART RGB output, convert it to VGA and feed the SLG which feeds the LCD monitor.

I was unable to get a stable picture on the Ebay Scaler, just by hacking the SCART RGB output of the console, to try and connect to either the RGBs or RGBHV input on the Ebay Scaler. I actually managed to get sync eventually, but had no picture. (I suspect the sync needed to be sorted further).

So I had to find some way to sort the sync..... here go a Syncblaster cable. I normally use this cable to connect from a SCART RGB console direct to my multi-sync (DSUB15) Arcade Monitor. Whilst it does not upscale (I don't want it to) it will enable the SCART RGB to be converted to an appropriate DSUB15 connection. It also has a sync splitter / sync amp in it. Using this provides proper low-res feeds from console to Arcade Monitor. Now using the syncblaster between the SCART RGB and Ebay Scaler (DSUB15 input), the Ebay Scaler could then do it's thing.

The Ebay scaler will take a JAMMA, RGBs, RGBHV and Component inputs. It has full RGB gain controls and sharpness controls (as well producing various output resolutions, including 640x480).

Regarding the Dreamcast..... if you used a DC RGB SCART lead and fed that into the syncblaster you would ultimately get the softer RGB feed to your arcade monitor. Marvel vs Capcom (not the 2nd) is a 240p game and looks great via the RGB SCART to an appropriate CRT. Has the scanlines natively.

Hope this helps.
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 Post subject: Re: New (upcoming) Scanline generator SLG3000
PostPosted: Fri Feb 04, 2011 11:46 am 


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Makes sense, since the CGA/VGA converter is geared towards PCB users. PCB provide a pure sync signal, so you need a sync stripper for RGB signals which use composite video instead (e.g. from some home consoles).


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 Post subject: Re: New (upcoming) Scanline generator SLG3000
PostPosted: Fri Feb 04, 2011 12:41 pm 



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Fudoh wrote:
Makes sense, since the CGA/VGA converter is geared towards PCB users. PCB provide a pure sync signal, so you need a sync stripper for RGB signals which use composite video instead (e.g. from some home consoles).


Agreed...

The Syncblaster works very well and enables all my retro consoles (Megadrive, SNES, NEOGEO, Saturn, DC, N64, Gamecube, PCE etc etc) to connect to my arcade monitors in their 15khz glory. The only thing I had to do with some of the consoles RGB leads, was to sort out composite ground (but that is easy).
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 Post subject: Re: New (upcoming) Scanline generator SLG3000
PostPosted: Fri Feb 04, 2011 3:23 pm 


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Fudoh wrote:
Makes sense, since the CGA/VGA converter is geared towards PCB users. PCB provide a pure sync signal, so you need a sync stripper for RGB signals which use composite video instead (e.g. from some home consoles).


Yeah, I would lose sync during the flash of a KOF DM unless I used a sync cleaner with the CGA/VGA
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 Post subject: Re: New (upcoming) Scanline generator SLG3000
PostPosted: Sat Feb 05, 2011 12:12 am 


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PS3 @ 480p HDMI > HDFury > SLG3000 > ASUS LCD
.
Image
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PS3 @ 480p component > XSelect > SLG3000 > ASUS LCD
.
Image
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I was stunned when I saw how sharp the HDMI image is routed through the HDFury, even at scaled 480p. Not CRT like at all, a very emulated look. It's actually sharper in person, the photo softens the image. Now wondering how this would look if I chained one of the HD Box clones right before the SLG, should soften the image and add some color bleed...

For PC Engine at least, I very much prefer the component image. Still have the same video mode problems mentioned before, even with HDMI.

EDIT: Okay, figured it out. :) I had the scanline filter enabled! :oops:

Now, if I could only figure out why component from the PS3 is so dark routed through the XSelect...


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 Post subject: Re: New (upcoming) Scanline generator SLG3000
PostPosted: Sat Feb 05, 2011 11:57 pm 


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I got my SLG a few days ago(#0046 :D ). Finally had some time to sit and play with it. Everything looks great. I started tinkering with settings on my HD box pro to make it look like original material through xrgb.

Take a look at these. Even though they're not the same console I wanted to get an idea of what I could do with HD Box Pro+SLG3000 VS XRGB-3.

Sonic 1 Genesis via RGB SCART->XRGB-3->DVDO Edge->TV (This is my regular setup to play)
Image


Sonic 1 on Sega Genesis Collection on PS2 via Component->HD Box Pro->SLG3000->DVDO Edge->TV
Image

Closeup of Sonic himself XRGB Genesis on left, PS2 SLG HD Box Pro on right
Image Image

As you can see I used odd scanlines on the SLG(looked better to me for some reason)

I feel for myself that if I did not have the following:

-Sonic
-Genesis+SCART RGB cable
-XRGB-3

This would be an acceptable substitute for me:

-Sega Genesis Collection
-PS2+Component Cable
-HD Box Pro
-SLG3000

So in other words hunting down XRGB, old console, obscure cable(needs customization) can be replaced by common PS2, common cable, cheap scaler, and SLG3000.

Thanks Jochen for the cool SLG3000!
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 Post subject: Re: New (upcoming) Scanline generator SLG3000
PostPosted: Sun Feb 06, 2011 12:37 am 


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Quote:
Now, if I could only figure out why component from the PS3 is so dark routed through the XSelect...

I don't think I saw this on my setup. I had the PS3 running through the Front D-Terminal input of the XSelect for the Winds of Thunder screenshots a few pages earliert. Seemed quite ok to me.

Btw: I'm surprised that the HDFury looks so much sharper. Wouldn't have expected it.


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 Post subject: Re: New (upcoming) Scanline generator SLG3000
PostPosted: Sun Feb 06, 2011 1:20 am 


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I just tried input 4 and it's definitely better but not normal. I have to crank the contrast all the way up for normal brightness. Input 2's easily the best but everything is tinted green. I paid $100 for my XSelect, so I'm not complaining.

You should try transcoding the component output of the HDFury 2 to see if the final result is softer.


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