shmups.system11.org

Shmups Forum
 
* FAQ    * Search
 * Register  * Login 
It is currently Sun Apr 30, 2017 6:43 pm View unanswered posts
View active topics



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 1086 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 ... 37  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: New (upcoming) Scanline generator SLG3000
PostPosted: Sun Jan 16, 2011 8:30 pm 



Joined: 19 Apr 2005
Posts: 49
Fudoh wrote:
Quote:
I feed the 480i signal from the 360 component cable through the adapter into the xrgb2+ D terminal and then turn on the xrgb's emulated scanlines

but you don't get "240p scanlines" using this. With a 480p signal from a 360 and the SLG3000 you get real scanlines, just like with a 240p source on the XRGB.


that certainly answers my question and makes me excited to get the SLG3000. By the way, would you refer to the emulated scanlines from the xrgb displaying my 360 as "480i scanlines"? I am able to display scanlines from my 360 that is outputting 480i through the xrgb, so I'd be curious to see a screenshot comparison of 240p scanlines and the xrgb's emulated 480i scanlines.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: New (upcoming) Scanline generator SLG3000
PostPosted: Sun Jan 16, 2011 9:41 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 10306
Location: Germany
What you see is usually not refered to as scanlines at all. Technically spoken, yes, you see scanlines, but the XRGB applies the dark lines to fill up the fields to full frames. This basically just created a darkening effect, not "real" standing scanlines. All the screenshots you usually see are "240p scanlines".


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: New (upcoming) Scanline generator SLG3000
PostPosted: Mon Jan 17, 2011 2:33 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 10306
Location: Germany
DVDO + SLG3000

Yesterday night I had another SLG3000 test run. This time paired up with a DVDO iScan unit (VP50Pro). And while I already expected great things, the combination really surpassed my expectations. Initially I ran into a problem with the DVDO's VGA voltage levels. They're obviously too high and the SLG starts to produce some wavy interference patterns. This should easily be solveable using a few resistors in line with the R/G/B signals, but for the moment, I just routed the signal through an Extron RGB interface and put the SLG3000 last in line which solves the problem as well.

With the SLG3000 in line the ringing in 240p mode (caused by DVDOs deinterlacing and scaling engine) is nearly completely masked. I sat really near to the display (3ft from a 52" screen) and I would call the resulting picture *very very close* to the XRGB-3 B1 240p picture. There have been a few tiny situations where the XRGB-3 might be a little bit sharper, but obviously the SLG3000 really makes the DVDO useable again. I also tried a bunch of 480i titles and both game modes looked extremely good. Even the usually shaky fieldscaling mode (Gamemode1) looked really nice.

The SLG3000 can be used with any DVDO processor. Since the DVDO processors allow to unlock the output frequency from the input frequency, it's also possible to use otherwise problematic sources like a MVS or other arcade PCBs. Earlier DVDO processors have a fixed processing delay of 2 to 2.5 frames, while newer ones (VP20 and newer) have a gamemode which allows for low-latency (6ms) gaming. To use a DVDO Edge with a SLG3000 one needs to add a HDFury in between to convert the Edge's HDMI output to SLG-compatible VGA.

With all the technical difficulties arising with the XRGB-3, I would probably say - at the moment - that a DVDO processor plus SLG3000 easily surpasses the XRGB both in performance as well as easiness to use. The DVDO machines add great 480i deinterlacing and HD-compatibility while reaching a 240p performance level *very close* to the XRGB-3.

I'll add some screenshots later this week when I get around testing a standalone Faroudja linedoubler with the SLG3000.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: New (upcoming) Scanline generator SLG3000
PostPosted: Mon Jan 17, 2011 2:54 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 29 Jan 2009
Posts: 391
Location: Tokyo
Can't wait for the capture images. I'm not a pro on all this hardware jumbo mambo but isn't a DVDO at least twice the price of a XRGB-3?
_________________
xavierjesus wrote:
Fcuking love sticks made from random objects. I'm off now actually to buy a plastic vagina...


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: New (upcoming) Scanline generator SLG3000
PostPosted: Mon Jan 17, 2011 3:37 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 10306
Location: Germany
Quote:
but isn't a DVDO at least twice the price of a XRGB-3?

not really, I've seen used HD+ machines for $150, VP30 units as low as $220 on ebay.com or videogon.com and DVDO Edge units under $300. That's actually quite reasonable.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: New (upcoming) Scanline generator SLG3000
PostPosted: Mon Jan 17, 2011 4:48 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 10306
Location: Germany
Videon Omega HDP + SLG3000

Image

completely hassle-free, 100% compatible to any 240p and 480i source. No cable problems, no RGB problems. I can't even decide which processors to put into my rack for future use with the SLG3000 :)


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: New (upcoming) Scanline generator SLG3000
PostPosted: Mon Jan 17, 2011 7:48 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 18 Sep 2008
Posts: 2093
Location: ǝʇɐןoɔoɥɔ & ǝsǝǝɥɔ
Oh man that looks great! Can't wait too hook it on the Holo... might look a bit softer though.
_________________
.
Image
.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: New (upcoming) Scanline generator SLG3000
PostPosted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 2:28 am 


User avatar

Joined: 15 Jul 2009
Posts: 123
Location: Canada
Fudoh wrote:
Videon Omega HDP + SLG3000

completely hassle-free, 100% compatible to any 240p and 480i source. No cable problems, no RGB problems. I can't even decide which processors to put into my rack for future use with the SLG3000 :)


Nice! You list "Videon Omega HDP". Is that a Videon Omega One, or a Lumagen HDP...or both?


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: New (upcoming) Scanline generator SLG3000
PostPosted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 6:09 am 



Joined: 26 Jan 2005
Posts: 6688
Location: Bedford, UK
Fudoh wrote:
Videon Omega HDP + SLG3000

Image

completely hassle-free, 100% compatible to any 240p and 480i source. No cable problems, no RGB problems. I can't even decide which processors to put into my rack for future use with the SLG3000 :)


That looks great, what type of screen are you using to get that result?

I'm also a little confused how I am supposed to get this to work since you need to get 15khz into VGA. I have a component>vga transcoder but nothing for scart. I have an XRGB2 but I don't see how that would help.
_________________
This industry has become 2 dimensional as it transcended into a 3D world.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: New (upcoming) Scanline generator SLG3000
PostPosted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 1:09 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 10306
Location: Germany
Quote:
Nice! You list "Videon Omega HDP". Is that a Videon Omega One, or a Lumagen HDP...or both?

that's a 2nd generation Omega One, with additional HD-Passthrough input, therefore Omega HDP.

Quote:
That looks great, what type of screen are you using to get that result?

That's a Sony LCD TV.

Quote:
I'm also a little confused how I am supposed to get this to work since you need to get 15khz into VGA.

The SLG3000 is just for 31khz VGA signals, so you need some kind of upscaler before. I've tried a bunch so far and they all work fine.

Quote:
I have a component>vga transcoder but nothing for scart. I have an XRGB2 but I don't see how that would help.

You can do SOURCE (e.g. PS2) -> XRGB2 -> SLG3000 -> TV.

Of course the XRGB-2 is kinda overkill since it can do scanlines on it's own, but with the above setup you can get the same scanlines from both 240p and 480i titles - just disable the scanlines on the XRGB-2 and enable them on the SLG3000.

If you have 31khz sources (e.g. XBox360 or DC), then you can route them directly into the SLG3000.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: New (upcoming) Scanline generator SLG3000
PostPosted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 1:48 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 15 Jul 2009
Posts: 123
Location: Canada
Fudoh wrote:
Quote:
Nice! You list "Videon Omega HDP". Is that a Videon Omega One, or a Lumagen HDP...or both?

that's a 2nd generation Omega One, with additional HD-Passthrough input, therefore Omega HDP.


Hmmm. I googled it yesterday and got nothing, which is why I asked. Now I get lots of results--must have made a typo. ??


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: New (upcoming) Scanline generator SLG3000
PostPosted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 3:40 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 10306
Location: Germany
You have already got a DVDO Edge, so I would get a HDFury to combine the Edge with a SLG3000...


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: New (upcoming) Scanline generator SLG3000
PostPosted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 5:54 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 10306
Location: Germany
And a few XBox360 screenshots:

Garou, ESPGaluda II and Death Smiles...

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image


And that's my particular SLG3000 unit, attached to the XBox360's VGA cable:

Image


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: New (upcoming) Scanline generator SLG3000
PostPosted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 6:54 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 29 Jan 2009
Posts: 391
Location: Tokyo
Awesome pictures!! I'm assuming that to get scanlines on CAVE's games from our 360 we just need to change the console's resolution to 640X480, attach the SLG3000 to the end of the VGA cable, connect this to our LCD with another VGA cable and play the arcade version of the game. Is that simple?

I hope the knob gets some grip or we will all feel the pain you had to go through, Fudoh 8)
_________________
xavierjesus wrote:
Fcuking love sticks made from random objects. I'm off now actually to buy a plastic vagina...


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: New (upcoming) Scanline generator SLG3000
PostPosted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 7:27 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 10306
Location: Germany
Quote:
Is that simple?

yes, it is.

You don't have to stick to the arcade versions of the games. I think that the scanlines look rather good on the 360 versions as well. I played Daiffukatsu last night (which doesn't offer the original arcade graphics) and it looks also fine.

From an earlier experiment of mine:

Image


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: New (upcoming) Scanline generator SLG3000
PostPosted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 8:28 pm 



Joined: 19 Mar 2010
Posts: 1647
Location: UK
These sample images look the mutts nuts!!!

I have one on pre-order and can't wait to receive it to compliment my other set-ups! :)
_________________
The FaginRS500 YouTube Channel of gaming related shizz


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: New (upcoming) Scanline generator SLG3000
PostPosted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 8:59 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 12 Jan 2009
Posts: 1780
Location: Maryland, USA
To be honest, I'm more interested in how this looks in Deathsmiles's Arcade mode, since Arcade has more accurate slowdown but looks absolutely horrid visually. I don't mind playing the 360 mode as-is, especially since it's a true 640x480+ game and the scanlines are just obscuring part of the game's graphics.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: New (upcoming) Scanline generator SLG3000
PostPosted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 9:31 pm 



Joined: 26 Jan 2005
Posts: 6688
Location: Bedford, UK
Fudoh,

Can you do a pic of the whole TV image please? I am trying to picture the whole thing from a distance.

Cheers,

Richie.
_________________
This industry has become 2 dimensional as it transcended into a 3D world.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: New (upcoming) Scanline generator SLG3000
PostPosted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 9:46 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 10306
Location: Germany
Quote:
To be honest, I'm more interested in how this looks in Deathsmiles's Arcade mode

the 3 screenshots above are all from the Arcade version.

Quote:
Can you do a pic of the whole TV image please? I am trying to picture the whole thing from a distance.

you will have a hard time noticing the scanlines on the picture.... http://pms.hazard-city.de/slg_full.jpg


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: New (upcoming) Scanline generator SLG3000
PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 8:06 am 



Joined: 26 Jan 2005
Posts: 6688
Location: Bedford, UK
It looks great I can just make out the scanlines.

How big is that TV?
_________________
This industry has become 2 dimensional as it transcended into a 3D world.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: New (upcoming) Scanline generator SLG3000
PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 12:05 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 10306
Location: Germany
52".

If you want to use scanlines on a LCD or Plasma, you should use a Full HD Set, not a HD Ready one. The reason for that is that the TV has to do the scaling from 480 lines to it's full resolution and 480p with scanlines tend to cause ugly moire pattern on many 768p panels.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: New (upcoming) Scanline generator SLG3000
PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 2:01 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 15 Jul 2009
Posts: 123
Location: Canada
Fudoh wrote:
You have already got a DVDO Edge, so I would get a HDFury to combine the Edge with a SLG3000...


Not a bad idea. Took a stroll over to Curt Palme--no dice. Monoprice--nope. Turns out starting Dec 15 it is damned near impossible to find a retailer that will sell devices like the HDFury to Canada (our Conservative puppet government is ramming through legislation to make its US masters happy).

Now devices that convert HDMI to ANALOG are outlawed? Seriously WTF?

Might see if Moome has something with more bang for the buck, but the wait time(s) for his products look a little crazy to me...


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: New (upcoming) Scanline generator SLG3000
PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 2:22 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 10306
Location: Germany
Quote:
Now devices that convert HDMI to ANALOG are outlawed? Seriously WTF?

It's not the conversion, it's the HDCP removal that goes along with it. Seems that CP has also stopped selling the HD-Mux which was a nice HDMI to HDMI HDCP killer.... The HDFury is still easily available on eBay both over here in Europe and in the USA, so I would grab one while you can. The original HDFury is easily enough to cover the 480p you need for the SLG3000.

I recently bought a 4x4 HDMI matrix (quite cheap one, around $200) and it turned out to be a universal HDCP killer as well. No problem with recording PS3 on my Blackmagic or just playing PS3 on my old NEC LCDs at my workstation. What a pleasant surprise :)


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: New (upcoming) Scanline generator SLG3000
PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 3:26 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 31 Dec 2009
Posts: 625
Location: East Coast, US
For us gamers is there any advantage to the HD Fury "gamer edition" or any of the other variants? I'm trying to think ahead with future consoles in mind. We don't need the component conversion of the HD Fury 2 since it's on its way out...


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: New (upcoming) Scanline generator SLG3000
PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 3:36 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 10306
Location: Germany
No, there's no difference. The Gamer Edition is a HDFury built into a HDMI to VGA cable, while the normal one comes with a DVI-D input and a VGA output socket.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: New (upcoming) Scanline generator SLG3000
PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 4:02 pm 



Joined: 26 Jan 2005
Posts: 6688
Location: Bedford, UK
Where is the order page?
_________________
This industry has become 2 dimensional as it transcended into a 3D world.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: New (upcoming) Scanline generator SLG3000
PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 4:03 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 10306
Location: Germany
http://www.arcadeforge.de/


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: New (upcoming) Scanline generator SLG3000
PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 4:54 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 04 Sep 2008
Posts: 536
Fudoh wrote:
Quote:
I recently bought a 4x4 HDMI matrix (quite cheap one, around $200) and it turned out to be a universal HDCP killer as well. No problem with recording PS3 on my Blackmagic or just playing PS3 on my old NEC LCDs at my workstation. What a pleasant surprise :)


give us more details about this hdmi matrix :)
_________________
XRGB & OSSC Wiki


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: New (upcoming) Scanline generator SLG3000
PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 5:56 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 10306
Location: Germany
It's this one:

http://www.hdtvsupply.com/4x4-hdmi-matrix-switch.html

available on eBay for around 180 EUR. It has no brand, so you can't search by name, just google or check eBay for "4x4 HDMI Matrix" and look for this one with the integrated IR extender.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: New (upcoming) Scanline generator SLG3000
PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 6:25 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 04 Sep 2008
Posts: 536
thx, some stocks there > http://cgi.ebay.de/HDMI-Switcher-4x4-Ma ... 20b3bc84ed
_________________
XRGB & OSSC Wiki


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 1086 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 ... 37  Next

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: accaris, BazookaBen, Bing [Bot], Hoagtech, kel, suprcrackers and 16 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
Space Pilot 3K template by Jakob Persson
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group