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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister
PostPosted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 12:52 pm 



Joined: 19 Jul 2017
Posts: 1
Hi guys,

i need some guidance here.

I just got my XRGB, i'm from brasil and i'm trying to configure everything properly.

Right now, I tested my XRGB with my Master System and Snes (both brazilian, PAL M) and I only got 2 results:

- When using the Std in video format, I have a stable image, but only black and white
- When I use Ext, I can see colors, BUT, the image will never get stable, it keeps "moving" from the top to bottom, like old TVs with reception problem.

As I could see in firmware 2.03a, there is support to PAL M video format, but I dont know if there additional configs that I'm missing.

Do you guys have any ideas? thanks!


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister
PostPosted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 1:40 pm 


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Joined: 06 Jul 2011
Posts: 4
FBX wrote:
zelkian wrote:
First, thank you for all your work on the profiles Firebrandx, it's made setting up my consoles so much easier.

I got an ASUS VN279QL for use with my Framemeister and while testing the settings I found that setting deep color to auto seemed to generally clear up some noise in the picture.

So, I was wondering if there is a way to edit the profile on a computer so I don't have to change and save every profile on the Framemeister itself.


Deep Color had to be turned off because it's incompatible with a lot of HDMI switchers and some displays. All it does is output in 12-bit color, which is useless since no console to date uses 12-bit color.


I understand, I was just hoping there was an easy way for myself to edit them outside of the Framemeister.

To illustrate what I'm seeing though here's a side-by-side: (240p test suite on NES)
Image

Hopefully you can see in the left image of the green box that there is some noise at the top with deep color off, which of course is more visible in person. When I turn on deep color it is reduced a lot. Don't know why, I was just tinkering with settings to try and reduce noise as much as I could. I'm using new CSYNC cables which significantly reduced noise overall once I got them. Also, I do realize there will be some noise depending on the console (SATURN!). I just wanted to see what I could do with settings.


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister
PostPosted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 3:56 pm 


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Joined: 18 Feb 2015
Posts: 1400
Location: DFW area, Texas
I suppose it's possible the conversion is somehow diluting the noise? I'll have to run some tests on my end and see if it does the same.

However, I can't really recommend everyone switch to deep color. As I mentioned, it caused far too many compatibility issues.


-FBX
_________________
Framemeister profiles: http://www.firebrandx.com/framemeisterprofiles.html

NES NTSC Palettes: http://www.firebrandx.com/nespalette.html

SNES Serial DB: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1HYLy_TTDop_FzuX6qnxuQI43upg4raXfno582taO744/pubhtml


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister
PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 8:15 pm 



Joined: 18 Oct 2015
Posts: 315
so I got bored.

Image


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister
PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 8:31 pm 


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Joined: 18 Feb 2015
Posts: 1400
Location: DFW area, Texas
NICE!

You know it's too bad we can pay 3x more for "Monster" SCART cables with gold plating. I remember they tried that with HDMI cables (probably still do).
_________________
Framemeister profiles: http://www.firebrandx.com/framemeisterprofiles.html

NES NTSC Palettes: http://www.firebrandx.com/nespalette.html

SNES Serial DB: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1HYLy_TTDop_FzuX6qnxuQI43upg4raXfno582taO744/pubhtml


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister
PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 8:45 pm 


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Joined: 25 May 2012
Posts: 196
AndehX wrote:
so I got bored.

Image


Those labels look slick, great way to add some color to your layout.


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister
PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 10:23 pm 



Joined: 18 Oct 2015
Posts: 315
I got the idea from 100 or so pages back and thought it was a cool way to spice things up and be able to identify my cables easier xD

FBX wrote:
NICE!

You know it's too bad we can pay 3x more for "Monster" SCART cables with gold plating. I remember they tried that with HDMI cables (probably still do).

God I can't think of a better example of a company that plays on the stupidity of their customers.


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister
PostPosted: Fri Jul 21, 2017 3:47 am 


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Joined: 18 Feb 2015
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Location: DFW area, Texas
zelkian wrote:

To illustrate what I'm seeing though here's a side-by-side: (240p test suite on NES)
Image

Hopefully you can see in the left image of the green box that there is some noise at the top with deep color off, which of course is more visible in person. When I turn on deep color it is reduced a lot.



I finished looking into this with solid color full-screen test ROMs. Your results are confirmed! I found several hues were significantly reduced in noise, while other hues were marginally better as well. Average overall reduction in noise across the spectrum was about 50%.

So those of you that can actually use the Framemeister's HDMI_SET >> DeepColor: AUTO, I recommend switching to it on your profiles and re-saving them. Those of you who had compatibility issues with your hardware, well... You're S-O-L as they say.


-FBX
_________________
Framemeister profiles: http://www.firebrandx.com/framemeisterprofiles.html

NES NTSC Palettes: http://www.firebrandx.com/nespalette.html

SNES Serial DB: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1HYLy_TTDop_FzuX6qnxuQI43upg4raXfno582taO744/pubhtml


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister
PostPosted: Fri Jul 21, 2017 8:16 am 



Joined: 23 Jun 2017
Posts: 1
So I got into RGB lately but I'm considering of buying either a Framemeister or OSSC for my 4K TV which is a Samsung 50" UN50KU6290FXZC model. I've tried to look for the compatibility results for that TV but I found nothing. Would the Framemiester or the OSSC work fine with this specific TV or any Samsung 4K TV in general (assuming one download the profiles and tinker it for each system too)?


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister
PostPosted: Fri Jul 21, 2017 11:40 am 


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Joined: 16 Sep 2011
Posts: 1141
Location: Germany
Thanks for looking into that FBX. The Framemeister has so many little quirks.


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister
PostPosted: Fri Jul 21, 2017 1:52 pm 



Joined: 05 Dec 2012
Posts: 343
AndehX wrote:
so I got bored.

Image

Woah, those are awesome! Would you consider sharing them? I think people would love to print them and make their own!


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister
PostPosted: Fri Jul 21, 2017 2:48 pm 


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Joined: 11 May 2015
Posts: 500
Location: America
yeah same here, those look beautiful.


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister
PostPosted: Sat Jul 22, 2017 2:08 am 



Joined: 18 Oct 2015
Posts: 315
Sure I'll post the photoshop file for it tomorrow


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister
PostPosted: Sat Jul 22, 2017 1:27 pm 


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Joined: 18 Feb 2015
Posts: 1400
Location: DFW area, Texas
It wouldn't be all that hard for people to make them on their own. You just download all the logos from the internet (typically wikipedia has high res ones), and then a little editing skill in a paint program is all you need to print out your own.

KentaZX wrote:
So I got into RGB lately but I'm considering of buying either a Framemeister or OSSC for my 4K TV which is a Samsung 50" UN50KU6290FXZC model. I've tried to look for the compatibility results for that TV but I found nothing. Would the Framemiester or the OSSC work fine with this specific TV or any Samsung 4K TV in general (assuming one download the profiles and tinker it for each system too)?


Framemeister will work just fine. I think as far is that goes, the only setting you might need to change on the Framemeister is the Sync mode to "OFF" instead of "AUTO". The OSSC on the other hand is the one you'd need to be more informed on as to how it will work with it. Some TVs are finicky about it, others take to it just grand.
_________________
Framemeister profiles: http://www.firebrandx.com/framemeisterprofiles.html

NES NTSC Palettes: http://www.firebrandx.com/nespalette.html

SNES Serial DB: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1HYLy_TTDop_FzuX6qnxuQI43upg4raXfno582taO744/pubhtml


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister
PostPosted: Sat Jul 22, 2017 7:45 pm 



Joined: 18 Oct 2015
Posts: 315
FBX wrote:
It wouldn't be all that hard for people to make them on their own. You just download all the logos from the internet (typically wikipedia has high res ones), and then a little editing skill in a paint program is all you need to print out your own.

Very true, I guess people are lazy though xD

https://www.dropbox.com/s/48spa8mldb3lo ... s.psd?dl=0


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister
PostPosted: Sat Jul 22, 2017 8:10 pm 


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Joined: 25 May 2012
Posts: 196
AndehX wrote:
FBX wrote:
It wouldn't be all that hard for people to make them on their own. You just download all the logos from the internet (typically wikipedia has high res ones), and then a little editing skill in a paint program is all you need to print out your own.

Very true, I guess people are lazy though xD

https://www.dropbox.com/s/48spa8mldb3lo ... s.psd?dl=0


Well speaking for myself at least, 'a little editing skill' is asking for a lot as I have none lol. Could put in as much effort as I wanted to and it wouldn't look half as good, or have the right dimensions.


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister
PostPosted: Sat Jul 22, 2017 8:45 pm 


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Joined: 18 Feb 2015
Posts: 1400
Location: DFW area, Texas
pyrotek85 wrote:
AndehX wrote:
FBX wrote:
It wouldn't be all that hard for people to make them on their own. You just download all the logos from the internet (typically wikipedia has high res ones), and then a little editing skill in a paint program is all you need to print out your own.

Very true, I guess people are lazy though xD

https://www.dropbox.com/s/48spa8mldb3lo ... s.psd?dl=0


Well speaking for myself at least, 'a little editing skill' is asking for a lot as I have none lol. Could put in as much effort as I wanted to and it wouldn't look half as good, or have the right dimensions.



I thought you kids these day know all this 'computer stuff'. :-P

Anyway, I'll have a crack at making some super-high-res ones in case people might want them. I'll even set the print resolution on the files to fit the SCART head, to eliminate guess work on the printing end of things. I'll post back tomorrow with the results.


-FBX
_________________
Framemeister profiles: http://www.firebrandx.com/framemeisterprofiles.html

NES NTSC Palettes: http://www.firebrandx.com/nespalette.html

SNES Serial DB: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1HYLy_TTDop_FzuX6qnxuQI43upg4raXfno582taO744/pubhtml


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister
PostPosted: Sun Jul 23, 2017 4:25 am 



Joined: 23 Jul 2017
Posts: 2
I recently got a Framemeister. I've loaded some profiles onto it. As far as I can tell, I should be able to have 20 profiles on it, but I can only seem to get 10 to show up, and they are doubled as seen here (duplicates show a question mark in the name):

Image

Has anybody else run into this issue, and if so, have you found a solution?

Thanks!


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister
PostPosted: Sun Jul 23, 2017 5:19 am 


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Joined: 18 Feb 2015
Posts: 1400
Location: DFW area, Texas
I went OCD and scanned in a SCART head at 300 dpi, then trimmed out the area I wanted the label to cover. This should print out at exactly the right size if set it to print at 300dpi:

Image

I decided to have the text going 'down' the spine as is customary with books for example. So if any NTSC fans are interested, I'll continue through the family of consoles from each company, making the background match a rainbow effect (in this case, the Master System will be more purple, and the Saturn will be more blue, and so on).

-FBX
_________________
Framemeister profiles: http://www.firebrandx.com/framemeisterprofiles.html

NES NTSC Palettes: http://www.firebrandx.com/nespalette.html

SNES Serial DB: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1HYLy_TTDop_FzuX6qnxuQI43upg4raXfno582taO744/pubhtml


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister
PostPosted: Sun Jul 23, 2017 10:12 am 



Joined: 18 Oct 2015
Posts: 315
Excellent work FBX. I never thought of scanning a scart head lol. Genius.


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister
PostPosted: Sun Jul 23, 2017 1:55 pm 


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Joined: 18 Feb 2015
Posts: 1400
Location: DFW area, Texas
donkeykongjr wrote:
I recently got a Framemeister. I've loaded some profiles onto it. As far as I can tell, I should be able to have 20 profiles on it, but I can only seem to get 10 to show up, and they are doubled as seen here (duplicates show a question mark in the name):

Has anybody else run into this issue, and if so, have you found a solution?



Many times people have. It's your punishment for using Apple products if I recall. :-P Unfortunately I don't recall what the exact solution was. I'm sure if you do some key word searches in the thread, you might find it, or someone else can chime in and give the details.

AndehX wrote:
Excellent work FBX. I never thought of scanning a scart head lol. Genius.


Thanks! I'm actually going yet another step further by turning it into a 3DS Max template, complete with texture mapping assignments so I don't have to orientate logos each time I make one for a new console. It will be a simple matter of copying the logos into the assigned texture angles. That will make this go by a lot faster, and give the benefit of infinite resolution.

BTW I was especially proud of my color work on the Genesis logo. The original was too grainy, and the current one was made with a different color scheme. I made this version to look much more like the original.


-FBX
_________________
Framemeister profiles: http://www.firebrandx.com/framemeisterprofiles.html

NES NTSC Palettes: http://www.firebrandx.com/nespalette.html

SNES Serial DB: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1HYLy_TTDop_FzuX6qnxuQI43upg4raXfno582taO744/pubhtml


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister
PostPosted: Sun Jul 23, 2017 7:03 pm 


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Joined: 18 Feb 2015
Posts: 1400
Location: DFW area, Texas
Well it took 4-feakin hours to design the template in 3D Studio Max (mostly because I had to learn a new technique I never needed before in my own artwork), but at long last, it's finished! Below is a 300dpi render. Everything in it is mathematically plotted, rather than eyeballed:

Image


Now that the hard part is out of the way, I can move on to other NTSC systems and start knocking them out one by one. Gonna take a break for a few today though. Whew!

Edit: Contrast fixed. Will take a few mins for web site to update the image (typically also take a browser refresh too).



-FBX
_________________
Framemeister profiles: http://www.firebrandx.com/framemeisterprofiles.html

NES NTSC Palettes: http://www.firebrandx.com/nespalette.html

SNES Serial DB: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1HYLy_TTDop_FzuX6qnxuQI43upg4raXfno582taO744/pubhtml


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister
PostPosted: Sun Jul 23, 2017 9:02 pm 



Joined: 23 Jul 2017
Posts: 2
Thanks, I searched this thread a bit more and found that the issue is caused by hidden files that Mac OS creates. I previously tried revealing hidden files in case this was the cause, but I didn't find anything. I'll probably just try to use a PC for this.


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister
PostPosted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 4:35 am 


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Posts: 1400
Location: DFW area, Texas
Finished that Sega Saturn label for the next color in the rainbow. Major...Pain...In the ASS. Turns out there are literally NO decent scans of the North American Saturn logo. They are all low print quality with lots of artifacts. Spent an hour combing through Google images before finally giving up. Had to rely on scan work with some pixel-editing. Unless there's some hidden gem somewhere, you won't see a North American original logo (not someone's interpretive artwork) this clean:

Image

As for the text, both NA and UK have a retarded official design. Japanese text is like 1,000 times better. Had to use it.

Anyway, I'll stop spamming the thread with this work. Just wanted to show how the progression will look on the color backdrops. I'll hold off on posting another update until I have the full set finished.


-FBX
_________________
Framemeister profiles: http://www.firebrandx.com/framemeisterprofiles.html

NES NTSC Palettes: http://www.firebrandx.com/nespalette.html

SNES Serial DB: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1HYLy_TTDop_FzuX6qnxuQI43upg4raXfno582taO744/pubhtml


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister
PostPosted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 6:42 am 


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Joined: 11 May 2015
Posts: 500
Location: America
beautiful work FBX! (are you going to post these to a project blog?) also how do you recommend printing these out? I only use my printer for text documents so I've never really done much label making. any particular type of paper or program I should use?

blizzz wrote:
Thanks for looking into that FBX. The Framemeister has so many little quirks.


yes, it's great that we have someone like FBX being a thorough tester on all things frame Meistery (also big thanks to zelkian bringing this to our attention). it gives me another question. is deep color support pretty much standard on monitors and televisions these days? or is it a relatively exotic feature that's likely going to be phased out in favor of HDR support?

AndehX wrote:
Very true, I guess people are lazy though xD

https://www.dropbox.com/s/48spa8mldb3lo ... s.psd?dl=0


very nice work AndehX. I'm having a bit of trouble downloading that though, do I have to make a Dropbox account?


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister
PostPosted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 6:46 am 


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Location: Germany
Quote:
is deep color support pretty much standard on monitors and televisions these days?

it's standard on most TVs, but quite rare on monitors.


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister
PostPosted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 6:49 am 



Joined: 05 Mar 2017
Posts: 99
I came across a comprehensive set of vector logos a while ago and was able to dig up a link:

https://forums.launchbox-app.com/topic/ ... tor-logos/

It appears to have vector versions of both Saturn logos (as well as all of the other systems).


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister
PostPosted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 7:32 am 


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Posts: 500
Location: America
Fudoh wrote:
it's standard on most TVs, but quite rare on monitors.


oh, that's interesting. I would've assumed it would be way more common on pc monitors as it seemed like something useful for production applications like Photoshop.

strygo wrote:
I came across a comprehensive set of vector logos a while ago and was able to dig up a link:

https://forums.launchbox-app.com/topic/ ... tor-logos/

It appears to have vector versions of both Saturn logos (as well as all of the other systems).


thanks! I'll have to collect all of those for future use. they look very nice


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister
PostPosted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 8:04 am 


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Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 10513
Location: Germany
Quote:
oh, that's interesting. I would've assumed it would be way more common on pc monitors as it seemed like something useful for production applications like Photoshop.

most consumer displays these days are 6-bit + FRC or 8-bit at best. And if you got a production monitor which can utilize 10-bit, then it's a 10-bit RGB signal, which has been used years before Deep Color from consumer HDMI sources came along. And I don't think these are fully compatible/exchangable.


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister
PostPosted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 3:10 pm 


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Joined: 18 Feb 2015
Posts: 1400
Location: DFW area, Texas
strygo wrote:
I came across a comprehensive set of vector logos a while ago and was able to dig up a link:

https://forums.launchbox-app.com/topic/ ... tor-logos/

It appears to have vector versions of both Saturn logos (as well as all of the other systems).


Already sifted through them when I spent an hour Google image searching. The NA & Euro logo is not only interpretive, but has mistakes that bother my OCD. I wanted official original, which there was nothing on the Internet of decent quality scan work (and it appears Sega never shared high res originals). Had to just edit a scan myself.

I will however, keep a bookmark for the text vectors, quite a few of them are spot-on, and so it's worth it for those. I just don't like the interpretive graphic logos as they are not the official design.


-FBX
_________________
Framemeister profiles: http://www.firebrandx.com/framemeisterprofiles.html

NES NTSC Palettes: http://www.firebrandx.com/nespalette.html

SNES Serial DB: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1HYLy_TTDop_FzuX6qnxuQI43upg4raXfno582taO744/pubhtml


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