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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister
PostPosted: Mon May 08, 2017 12:14 pm 



Joined: 05 Sep 2016
Posts: 4
FBX wrote:
Fudoh wrote:
Do we see any difference between enabling and disabling deep color support ? I would assume that this option is used on the Marvell processor only, so as long as we're using integer scales done on the FPGA level I don't think we would see any differences.


Perhaps on the horizontal axis where integer scaling pretty much is impossible on the Framemeister? To be honest, I'm not even sure what deep color mode actually does. I always assumed it added to the over all quality of the image.


I'm not sure if it improves IQ at all, but checking the full status on the mini shows that the output is 12bit color instead of 8 bit when deep colour is enabled. At least on my set.


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister
PostPosted: Mon May 08, 2017 12:57 pm 


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Deep Color allows 12 bits per pixel (instead of the default 8 bits) I thought, it has nothing to do with scaling at all?


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister
PostPosted: Mon May 08, 2017 1:47 pm 


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TheShadowRunner wrote:
Deep Color allows 12 bits per pixel (instead of the default 8 bits) I thought, it has nothing to do with scaling at all?


I see. As far as I can tell from Googling, 12-bit color reduces banding, but is that even an issue with these limited color consoles? Maybe it's good for 16.7 mill color consoles after scaling? So say it's maybe useful for PS1/Saturn and on up?
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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister
PostPosted: Mon May 08, 2017 6:23 pm 



Joined: 08 Apr 2016
Posts: 64
Location: Honolulu, HI
I did some tinkering this weekend with the XRGB Mini, PS3, Xbox 360, and HDMI Direct. The XRGB Mini does not properly pass 1080p signals. It constantly drops the signal. Tested both the PS3 and 360. After I switched both consoles to 720p, I haven't run into any issues.

I found some posts in this thread from 2 years ago about this issue. It looks the past few firmware updates didn't address it. It's not a major deal breaker as the vast majority of PS3 games are only 720p, but it is definitely disappointing.


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister
PostPosted: Mon May 08, 2017 7:29 pm 



Joined: 17 Jan 2017
Posts: 22
FBX wrote:
TheShadowRunner wrote:
Deep Color allows 12 bits per pixel (instead of the default 8 bits) I thought, it has nothing to do with scaling at all?


I see. As far as I can tell from Googling, 12-bit color reduces banding, but is that even an issue with these limited color consoles? Maybe it's good for 16.7 mill color consoles after scaling? So say it's maybe useful for PS1/Saturn and on up?


Unfortunately it doesn't because 24-bit true color has 256 shades (8-bit) of red, green and blue allowing for 16.777.216 colors (256 x 256 x 256).

For more colors you'll need a source outputting in 30/36/48-bit deep color and there's nothing out there doing that at this point nor can we see it. The human eye can only see about 10 million colors. Hardware does support it from HDMI v1.3 but no source material.

30-bit deep color has 1.024 shades (10-bit) of red, green and blue allowing for 1.073.741.824 colors (1.024 x 1.024 x 1.024), 36-bit deep color has 4.096 shades (12-bit) of red, green and blue allowing for 68.719.476.736 colors (4.096 x 4.096 x 4.096) and finally 48-bit deep color has 65.536 shades (16-bit) of red, green and blue allowing for 281.474.976.710.656 colors (65.536 x 65.536 x 65.536). So fun in theory but just that, theory as we can't see it.


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister
PostPosted: Wed May 10, 2017 2:53 pm 



Joined: 01 Aug 2016
Posts: 11
I'm having a problem, I'm not getting any sound out of my Framemeister and the screen gets a pinkish/purple hue when I'm using the d-terminal or s-video inputs. RGB input has a clear picture but still no sound. (Don't have anything plugged into the others)

The other day I moved all my stuff into another room in our house and it started doing this after I plugged everything back in again and turned it on. Before I changed rooms it was working fine. I have no idea how fragile this thing is (for $300+ I was hoping for a bit of durability) cuz when I moved it I left the cables attached to the Framemeister and just unplugged the cables from the various systems so I hope them hanging from it didn't damage it. Any thoughts?


** Forget it, it was the tv. I changed which input it was plugged into and its working fine now.


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister
PostPosted: Fri May 12, 2017 4:21 am 


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So just for shits and giggles I been using the PS1 5X profile for PS2 and I think it looks pretty good. You're basically getting a 2.5X scale. PS1 at 5X and PS2 at 2.5X equals the same resolution which is 1600 x 1200. When viewing on a 1080p display you are cutting off 120 pixels which sounds like a lot but since most PS2 game run at 512 x 448 it only cuts off just a smidge on the top and bottom of the screen. It's about the same as your typical CRT overscan giving it a more authentic look.
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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister
PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2017 6:11 am 


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Joined: 03 May 2017
Posts: 6
Has anyone got a PAL NES RGB profile? 720p 3x integer?


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister
PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2017 1:21 pm 


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Joined: 03 Feb 2011
Posts: 10
jdawg131 wrote:
I did some tinkering this weekend with the XRGB Mini, PS3, Xbox 360, and HDMI Direct. The XRGB Mini does not properly pass 1080p signals. It constantly drops the signal. Tested both the PS3 and 360. After I switched both consoles to 720p, I haven't run into any issues.

I found some posts in this thread from 2 years ago about this issue. It looks the past few firmware updates didn't address it. It's not a major deal breaker as the vast majority of PS3 games are only 720p, but it is definitely disappointing.


Interesting, because my Framemeister works flawlessly with 1080p (HDMI Direct On) from 360, PS3 and even PS4.

Of course PS3 games are outputting always 720p signal, but on the main console interface it works perfectly on 1080p, also on long sessions of Netflix and YouTube -- always 1080p, without any drops.

Still on PS3, I'm playing Demon's Souls and scaling 720p to 1080p via Framemeister (of course I turn off HDMI Direct when I play this game or anytime I want the profile to take place) just to get a very slightly sharper scaling when comparing to my TV doing the 720p>1080p scale. Even made a simple profile for that, PS3SHARP.BIN -- it's great.

One more thing: maybe I don't experience any dropouts on the 1080p signal from these consoles (yes, 360 at 1080p works all the time, never any dropouts) because there's a HDMI splitter right before the XRGB HDMI input: one HDMI cable goes to the XRGB of course and the other to the capture card (Elgato HD60). The HDMI splitter is a cheap one but it's perfect, never had any problems: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Ultra-HD-4K-2-P ... 2106340900

I have 2 of these, using for years, always capturing footage and playing with those on the system.

Another thing to note: I just got the Elgato HD60, but before I captured footage with the Blackmagic Intensity Shuttle USB, and this card captures on 720p@60 only. So, to capture PS4 *and* at the same time enjoy the game on 1080p on my TV, I connect the PS4 HDMI out to the HDMI splitter, then to XRGB which downscales the 1080p resolution to 720p which the Blackmagic can capture. It worked perfectly, I used this setup for about 3 years. This is the last video I did using this setup (The Last Guardian, which is native 1080p on PS4): https://youtu.be/5P1awApq4zg

(it's on portuguese, I'm linking just to check the quality)

Anyway, hope that something I said helps on any way :) Have a great day!
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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister
PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2017 4:47 pm 



Joined: 08 Apr 2016
Posts: 64
Location: Honolulu, HI
Cosmonal wrote:
One more thing: maybe I don't experience any dropouts on the 1080p signal from these consoles (yes, 360 at 1080p works all the time, never any dropouts) because there's a HDMI splitter right before the XRGB HDMI input: one HDMI cable goes to the XRGB of course and the other to the capture card (Elgato HD60). The HDMI splitter is a cheap one but it's perfect, never had any problems: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Ultra-HD-4K-2-P ... 2106340900


I think that this may be the reason for your success. I'm not sure what the device could be doing to the signal before passing it off to the XRGB though. Maybe standardizing it? I have the PS3 and 360 going directly into the two HDMI inputs on the XRGB Mini. Unfortunately, I don't have the space or an extra power outlet to connect (yet) another device.


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister
PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2017 7:03 pm 


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Joined: 21 May 2013
Posts: 47
Has the XRGB-Mini seen any internal hardware/board revisions since its release? It just seems strange that some people have had different experiences with their XRGB-Mini compared to others.

<EDIT> After searching this thread I read that there is at least a version 1.2 and version 1.3 of the PCB, and that you can easily discover which version you have by checking the PCB ver. listed in the Special section of the menu.

Can anyone who has bought an XRGB-Mini from a recent batch confirm what the latest PCB revision is?


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister
PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2017 10:56 pm 


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Joined: 03 Feb 2011
Posts: 10
jdawg131 wrote:
Cosmonal wrote:
One more thing: maybe I don't experience any dropouts on the 1080p signal from these consoles (yes, 360 at 1080p works all the time, never any dropouts) because there's a HDMI splitter right before the XRGB HDMI input: one HDMI cable goes to the XRGB of course and the other to the capture card (Elgato HD60). The HDMI splitter is a cheap one but it's perfect, never had any problems: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Ultra-HD-4K-2-P ... 2106340900


I think that this may be the reason for your success. I'm not sure what the device could be doing to the signal before passing it off to the XRGB though. Maybe standardizing it? I have the PS3 and 360 going directly into the two HDMI inputs on the XRGB Mini. Unfortunately, I don't have the space or an extra power outlet to connect (yet) another device.


Maybe some extra power its the reason, as the splitter has its own power supply. But don't know for sure. Also, it breaks HDCP on PS3 as a needed bonus feature for capturing footage via HDMI. So, the standardizing you mentioned may really be the case, as it manipulates the digital signal (at least to break the HDCP).
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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister
PostPosted: Sun May 21, 2017 9:56 pm 



Joined: 26 Mar 2017
Posts: 7
Fire,

When I got my Framemeister back in December, one of the first things I did was to put your profiles on an SD card. Unfortunately, I got your instructions exactly backwards and used Load_Select to load them, and things were, of course, not right. So, I stayed with pretty much the default. Well, I had to get a new SD card, and I had to relearn where to put the files on the card. In doing so, I reread your instructions and saw that I had to use Load. As you may expect, things look tremendous doing it the right way! :D No more of that unsightly extra picture information on my Genesis games! Thanks.

Also, a couple of months back, I mentioned seeing smearing and other distortions when I had output_color set to Auto. Your settings also have output_color on Auto, and all of that stuff is gone. I don't really know why, but I'm sure there's some setting somewhere in there that is causing it, and output_color just happened to get rid of it as well. Weird. Weird, but if it's no longer happening, that's fine.


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister
PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2017 2:00 am 


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Joined: 18 Feb 2015
Posts: 1140
Location: DFW area, Texas
Rasdock wrote:
Fire,

When I got my Framemeister back in December, one of the first things I did was to put your profiles on an SD card. Unfortunately, I got your instructions exactly backwards and used Load_Select to load them, and things were, of course, not right. So, I stayed with pretty much the default. Well, I had to get a new SD card, and I had to relearn where to put the files on the card. In doing so, I reread your instructions and saw that I had to use Load. As you may expect, things look tremendous doing it the right way! :D No more of that unsightly extra picture information on my Genesis games! Thanks.

Also, a couple of months back, I mentioned seeing smearing and other distortions when I had output_color set to Auto. Your settings also have output_color on Auto, and all of that stuff is gone. I don't really know why, but I'm sure there's some setting somewhere in there that is causing it, and output_color just happened to get rid of it as well. Weird. Weird, but if it's no longer happening, that's fine.



It could be the AUTO_SCALER settings. In order to get the sharpest picture, I turn that off and set H and V manually to 5 and 7. Now the Framemeister does have a weird quirk where if you change the color mode, it "forgets" the scaler settings are active and reverts to a smeared look. Simply going into H_SCALER and adjusting the setting down to 4 and back to 5 forces the Framemeister to "remember" they were active.
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NES NTSC Palettes: http://www.firebrandx.com/nespalette.html


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