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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister
PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2017 8:05 pm 


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Joined: 06 Oct 2015
Posts: 1811
Location: Canada
Shuco13 wrote:
Since the Framemeister is, in contrary to what has been believed in the recent months, still available/for sale, do you guys have any news on a possible new firmware update? It's been almost a year they posted the last one.


The Framemeister is still available for sale only because Micomsoft has made a large final purchase of the scaler chips: the announcement that it has been discontinued was official, and I doubt they have any plans to work on new firmware when they are likely focusing their efforts on a successor product. My understanding is that Micomsoft is a very small company (with perhaps only one person working on this), so they probably don't have any resources to spare.


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister
PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2017 10:35 pm 


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Joined: 12 Mar 2014
Posts: 759
Location: California, USA
I don't expect any more FW updated either as they are working on the successor. Honestly what more can they add to it? Due to the success of the OSSC, I wouldn't be surprised if the XRGB-4 goes back to being a line doubler/trippler.
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Framemeister 240p scanline settings: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=33450&start=9600


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister
PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 4:02 am 



Joined: 13 Mar 2011
Posts: 887
Location: Toronto, Canada
heres a feature that is really lacking: Low Pass Filter enable/disable in menu.

currently LPF only avail in GAME1 mode but that turns on bob deinterlace filter. For PICTURE mode users (most retro gamers!) that want to use 7374 rgb amp control over LPF is vital!


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister
PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 4:33 am 


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Joined: 12 Mar 2014
Posts: 759
Location: California, USA
Not sure if a FW update could fix that. All mode have LPF, even Picture mode which is not supposed to have any still has some LPF.
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Framemeister 240p scanline settings: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=33450&start=9600


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister
PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 5:21 am 



Joined: 13 Mar 2011
Posts: 887
Location: Toronto, Canada
austin532 wrote:
Not sure if a FW update could fix that. All mode have LPF, even Picture mode which is not supposed to have any still has some LPF.


true. But not a LPF that is as "strong" as what's in a 7314 or sufficient for LPF free 7374. 7374 with LPF on works great in PICTURE mode, but it basically makes it into a 7314. OSSC has more granular control over LPF and is missing in XRGB mini.


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister
PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 6:02 am 


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Joined: 18 Feb 2015
Posts: 1274
Location: DFW area, Texas
RaphM wrote:
A last general question - ignoring scanlines and "perfectionism", how would you personally rate the actual perceived difference between integer/non-integer scaling for 240p sources?


For smooth vertical scrolling and uniform scanlines (if you want scanlines), integer scaling is a must-have on the Framemeister. The only time integer scaling wouldn't be important is if you're using 'blurred' profiles that attempt to smooth edges in polygonal games. In this case, you'll notice something is terribly wrong if you turn scanlines on, so you can't use them if you want to ignore integer scaling.

Simple breakdown:

Sharply defined pixels and smooth vertical scrolling: Integer scaling is a must-have.

Uniform scanline feature: Integer scaling is a must-have.

Blurred pixels in order to smooth polygon edges: Integer scaling not required (so long as you leave scanlines turned off).
_________________
Framemeister profiles: http://www.firebrandx.com/framemeisterprofiles.html

NES NTSC Palettes: http://www.firebrandx.com/nespalette.html

SNES Serial DB: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1HYLy_TTDop_FzuX6qnxuQI43upg4raXfno582taO744/pubhtml


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister
PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2017 7:59 am 



Joined: 03 Dec 2012
Posts: 23
I received a second Framemeister today and can finally confirm that my original unit has issues. The HDMI problems and the interference noise I get when using a SCART switcher all disappear with the new unit. The old unit looks perfect when plugging a device directly into the RGB mini-din port but when using any switcher, you get nasty wavy artefacts.

The old one is still quite usable but it has limitations now that it did not before. How strange.

Ah well, I don't mind having a second one. Might use the original one as a dedicated capture unit and just plug consoles in directly when I need it.


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister
PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2017 11:59 pm 


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Joined: 03 May 2017
Posts: 6
Hi. Long time lurker, first time poster.

I'm hoping someone can point me in the right direction. I'm after 720p XRGB Mini profiles.
I would be more than happy with the NES (PAL and NTSC) 3x integer scale. I can't get it quite right by myself.

Also after a few other consoles too. But can start with NES and see how we go.

Thanks.


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister
PostPosted: Thu May 04, 2017 1:02 am 



Joined: 28 Aug 2014
Posts: 8
Hey, big fan of your work FBX. I'm having trouble loading the SNES 720p (SNES720.BIN) profile unfortunately. My TV is a 720p set, here are specs for any interest: https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product. ... 6889107008

On the latest firmware and definitely selecting LOAD, not load select.

I get an image that is garbled and shifted to the right as pictured.

http://imgur.com/a/mtzuy

Any ideas?


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister
PostPosted: Thu May 04, 2017 10:12 am 


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Joined: 03 May 2017
Posts: 6
Uzumaki wrote:
Hey, big fan of your work FBX. I'm having trouble loading the SNES 720p (SNES720.BIN) profile unfortunately. My TV is a 720p set, here are specs for any interest: https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product. ... 6889107008

On the latest firmware and definitely selecting LOAD, not load select.

I get an image that is garbled and shifted to the right as pictured.

http://imgur.com/a/mtzuy

Any ideas?


Just discovered the 720P profiles, but having the exact same issue. Tried adjusting a few things but no avail.


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister
PostPosted: Thu May 04, 2017 6:54 pm 


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Joined: 18 Feb 2015
Posts: 1274
Location: DFW area, Texas
Uzumaki wrote:
Hey, big fan of your work FBX. I'm having trouble loading the SNES 720p (SNES720.BIN) profile unfortunately. My TV is a 720p set, here are specs for any interest: https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product. ... 6889107008

On the latest firmware and definitely selecting LOAD, not load select.

I get an image that is garbled and shifted to the right as pictured.

http://imgur.com/a/mtzuy

Any ideas?


Very strange. My 720 SNES profile does not change any of the timing-sensitive functions, so I have no idea why it's scrambling the picture on your end. I tried it just now and it's perfectly fine on my end.

Lets see if we can trouble shoot the cause:

1. Are you able to simply switch to 720p output on your Framemeister and get a picture that way?

2. Are you using all NTSC equipment on the SNES end?

3. Does turning off the ZOOM function fix the picture when using my profile?
_________________
Framemeister profiles: http://www.firebrandx.com/framemeisterprofiles.html

NES NTSC Palettes: http://www.firebrandx.com/nespalette.html

SNES Serial DB: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1HYLy_TTDop_FzuX6qnxuQI43upg4raXfno582taO744/pubhtml


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister
PostPosted: Fri May 05, 2017 12:24 am 



Joined: 28 Aug 2014
Posts: 8
FBX wrote:
Uzumaki wrote:
Hey, big fan of your work FBX. I'm having trouble loading the SNES 720p (SNES720.BIN) profile unfortunately. My TV is a 720p set, here are specs for any interest: https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product. ... 6889107008

On the latest firmware and definitely selecting LOAD, not load select.

I get an image that is garbled and shifted to the right as pictured.

http://imgur.com/a/mtzuy

Any ideas?


Very strange. My 720 SNES profile does not change any of the timing-sensitive functions, so I have no idea why it's scrambling the picture on your end. I tried it just now and it's perfectly fine on my end.

Lets see if we can trouble shoot the cause:

1. Are you able to simply switch to 720p output on your Framemeister and get a picture that way?

2. Are you using all NTSC equipment on the SNES end?

3. Does turning off the ZOOM function fix the picture when using my profile?


The framemeister works fine with the default settings and my own profiles. I actually have an old 720p NES profile of yours dated Sept. 2016 called 720NESOS.BIN and THAT works on my setup.

I just tried the NES 720p (NES720.BIN) profile with my NESRGB AV Famicom and that's doing the same thing as the SNES 720 profile!

1. You mean go to HDMI Output in your profile and choose 720p60? No, it's already in that mode and doesn't change the picture.

2. Yes, US SNES Mini with voultar's RGB bypass board and csync.

3. No, unfortunately turning off the zoom function does not fix it either.

Thanks for your help!


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister
PostPosted: Fri May 05, 2017 1:32 am 


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Joined: 01 Dec 2006
Posts: 1119
austin532 wrote:
I don't expect any more FW updated either as they are working on the successor. Honestly what more can they add to it?


There's always new stuff they can add, XRGB-3 received FW update all the way till 2015.


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister
PostPosted: Fri May 05, 2017 11:50 am 


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Joined: 18 Feb 2015
Posts: 1274
Location: DFW area, Texas
Uzumaki wrote:
The framemeister works fine with the default settings and my own profiles. I actually have an old 720p NES profile of yours dated Sept. 2016 called 720NESOS.BIN and THAT works on my setup.

I just tried the NES 720p (NES720.BIN) profile with my NESRGB AV Famicom and that's doing the same thing as the SNES 720 profile!

1. You mean go to HDMI Output in your profile and choose 720p60? No, it's already in that mode and doesn't change the picture.

2. Yes, US SNES Mini with voultar's RGB bypass board and csync.

3. No, unfortunately turning off the zoom function does not fix it either.

Thanks for your help!


Okay I happen to still have a copy of that older NES profile, so I will compare setting-by-setting and figure out what's different and could possibly be causing the problems. We'll get to the bottom of this!
_________________
Framemeister profiles: http://www.firebrandx.com/framemeisterprofiles.html

NES NTSC Palettes: http://www.firebrandx.com/nespalette.html

SNES Serial DB: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1HYLy_TTDop_FzuX6qnxuQI43upg4raXfno582taO744/pubhtml


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister
PostPosted: Fri May 05, 2017 12:04 pm 


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Joined: 05 Sep 2016
Posts: 8
Try disabling Deep Color in the Framemeister HDMI settings, maybe it's not compatible with your display.


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister
PostPosted: Fri May 05, 2017 12:28 pm 


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Joined: 18 Feb 2015
Posts: 1274
Location: DFW area, Texas
Kagigod wrote:
Try disabling Deep Color in the Framemeister HDMI settings, maybe it's not compatible with your display.


It can't be that because the old profile also has deep color enabled.

Here's where it gets really weird: The older NES profile and the newer one have the exact same settings! Now I'm wondering if there's either a naming bug or a firmware revision bug.

Okay so here's a NESRGB profile test zip I want you guys to test on your 720p displays. Try each one and let me know if any or all of them work:

http://www.firebrandx.com/downloads/profiletest.zip
_________________
Framemeister profiles: http://www.firebrandx.com/framemeisterprofiles.html

NES NTSC Palettes: http://www.firebrandx.com/nespalette.html

SNES Serial DB: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1HYLy_TTDop_FzuX6qnxuQI43upg4raXfno582taO744/pubhtml


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister
PostPosted: Fri May 05, 2017 10:24 pm 


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Joined: 03 May 2017
Posts: 6
FBX wrote:
Kagigod wrote:
Try disabling Deep Color in the Framemeister HDMI settings, maybe it's not compatible with your display.


It can't be that because the old profile also has deep color enabled.

Here's where it gets really weird: The older NES profile and the newer one have the exact same settings! Now I'm wondering if there's either a naming bug or a firmware revision bug.

Okay so here's a NESRGB profile test zip I want you guys to test on your 720p displays. Try each one and let me know if any or all of them work:

http://www.firebrandx.com/downloads/profiletest.zip


None work for me. Same issue.


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister
PostPosted: Fri May 05, 2017 11:03 pm 



Joined: 28 Apr 2017
Posts: 1
Hope someone here can assist with a problem I have been trying to figure out. I have just purchased a framemeister and I am loving it so far. It works great on my older toshiba HD set that I have mounted in my bedroom. However, I really want to use it with my new 4k tv that I have mounted in my gaming area. The picture works fine on both tvs, no issue there, but when I hook the framemeister up to my 4k set, I get no sound. I have gone through every setting that I can think of on the framemeister and on my tv, but I cant seem to get sound no matter what I try. I have tried three separate consoles (SNES, dreamcast, sega cd) but no sound from any of them on the 4k set. Those consoles all work find on my older tv, no matter if I use composite and RCA input for the dreamcast and sega cd, or my new scart cable for the snes. The TV is a Samsung UN55KS9000FXZA if that helps at all. Any advice would be appreciated, thanks!


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister
PostPosted: Sat May 06, 2017 10:43 am 


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Joined: 18 Feb 2015
Posts: 1274
Location: DFW area, Texas
NZRetroGamers wrote:
FBX wrote:
Kagigod wrote:
Try disabling Deep Color in the Framemeister HDMI settings, maybe it's not compatible with your display.


It can't be that because the old profile also has deep color enabled.

Here's where it gets really weird: The older NES profile and the newer one have the exact same settings! Now I'm wondering if there's either a naming bug or a firmware revision bug.

Okay so here's a NESRGB profile test zip I want you guys to test on your 720p displays. Try each one and let me know if any or all of them work:

http://www.firebrandx.com/downloads/profiletest.zip


None work for me. Same issue.


One of them (TEST0003) was the original NESOS720 file you said did work on your system. All I did was rename the file!

Edit: The copy I took was from a December 2016 package, and I just realized it. I'm now checking the September one. I'm REALLY hoping it has different settings that I can nail down. I'll write back soon with my findings.
_________________
Framemeister profiles: http://www.firebrandx.com/framemeisterprofiles.html

NES NTSC Palettes: http://www.firebrandx.com/nespalette.html

SNES Serial DB: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1HYLy_TTDop_FzuX6qnxuQI43upg4raXfno582taO744/pubhtml


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister
PostPosted: Sat May 06, 2017 10:55 am 


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Joined: 18 Feb 2015
Posts: 1274
Location: DFW area, Texas
Okay lets try this one to see if it works:


http://www.firebrandx.com/downloads/test0004.zip


Edit: If that one doesn't work, here's my last chance to figure out the problem:


http://www.firebrandx.com/downloads/test0005.zip


.
_________________
Framemeister profiles: http://www.firebrandx.com/framemeisterprofiles.html

NES NTSC Palettes: http://www.firebrandx.com/nespalette.html

SNES Serial DB: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1HYLy_TTDop_FzuX6qnxuQI43upg4raXfno582taO744/pubhtml


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister
PostPosted: Sat May 06, 2017 12:00 pm 


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Joined: 03 May 2017
Posts: 6
4 was the same but 5 works!

Thank you!


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister
PostPosted: Sat May 06, 2017 12:39 pm 


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Joined: 18 Feb 2015
Posts: 1274
Location: DFW area, Texas
NZRetroGamers wrote:
4 was the same but 5 works!

Thank you!


Okay so the difference in 5 is I turned deep color off, and switched the conversion to RGB instead of "Auto". What doesn't make any sense about this is NESOS720 has the same settings as the newer profiles with Deep Color set to Auto and the conversion set to Auto.

At any rate. Now we need to determine if it's the Deep Color setting or the conversion setting. Below are tests 6 and 7. Let me know which one of these work and we'll have it sussed. Thanks!

http://www.firebrandx.com/downloads/tests6and7.zip




.
_________________
Framemeister profiles: http://www.firebrandx.com/framemeisterprofiles.html

NES NTSC Palettes: http://www.firebrandx.com/nespalette.html

SNES Serial DB: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1HYLy_TTDop_FzuX6qnxuQI43upg4raXfno582taO744/pubhtml


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister
PostPosted: Sat May 06, 2017 5:58 pm 



Joined: 28 Aug 2014
Posts: 8
FBX wrote:
NZRetroGamers wrote:
4 was the same but 5 works!

Thank you!


Okay so the difference in 5 is I turned deep color off, and switched the conversion to RGB instead of "Auto". What doesn't make any sense about this is NESOS720 has the same settings as the newer profiles with Deep Color set to Auto and the conversion set to Auto.

At any rate. Now we need to determine if it's the Deep Color setting or the conversion setting. Below are tests 6 and 7. Let me know which one of these work and we'll have it sussed. Thanks!

http://www.firebrandx.com/downloads/tests6and7.zip

.


I just tested all 7 and Five and Seven worked! Every other one produced the same strange results. Thanks for helping us!


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister
PostPosted: Sat May 06, 2017 7:37 pm 


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Joined: 18 Feb 2015
Posts: 1274
Location: DFW area, Texas
Okay so it really was just the deep color function messing with your displays (still doesn't explain how that old September profile was working though, but whatever).

I've uploaded a new profile package with a separate 720p folder where the deep color mode is turned off by default:

http://www.firebrandx.com/downloads/fra ... -05-06.zip




.
_________________
Framemeister profiles: http://www.firebrandx.com/framemeisterprofiles.html

NES NTSC Palettes: http://www.firebrandx.com/nespalette.html

SNES Serial DB: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1HYLy_TTDop_FzuX6qnxuQI43upg4raXfno582taO744/pubhtml


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister
PostPosted: Sat May 06, 2017 9:35 pm 


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Joined: 03 May 2017
Posts: 6
Awesome. Thank you for your perseverance. I can confirm adding deep color does stuff up the picture. Odd thing is if I make a profile I have deep color and it works fine.


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister
PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2017 11:17 am 


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Joined: 18 Feb 2015
Posts: 1274
Location: DFW area, Texas
NZRetroGamers wrote:
Awesome. Thank you for your perseverance. I can confirm adding deep color does stuff up the picture. Odd thing is if I make a profile I have deep color and it works fine.


Cool. Yeah, it's very bizarre behavior that I can only imagine lies somewhere in how the profile is written from one Framemeister to the next. At least we now know sharing profiles with deep color turned on for 720p displays is too buggy.


In other news, I spent an hour rewriting and reorganizing the text files included with the profiles package:

http://www.firebrandx.com/downloads/framemeisterprofiles-2017-05-07.zip

You will notice some new text files, including a separate file with clear and concise descriptions of what each profile does. It has also been updated to include all recently added profiles and naming conventions.

Cheers!
_________________
Framemeister profiles: http://www.firebrandx.com/framemeisterprofiles.html

NES NTSC Palettes: http://www.firebrandx.com/nespalette.html

SNES Serial DB: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1HYLy_TTDop_FzuX6qnxuQI43upg4raXfno582taO744/pubhtml


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister
PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2017 10:07 pm 



Joined: 29 Apr 2016
Posts: 80
I really think Deep Color should not be enabled by default in any profiles, since not all displays support it.


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister
PostPosted: Mon May 08, 2017 12:38 am 


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Joined: 18 Feb 2015
Posts: 1274
Location: DFW area, Texas
copy wrote:
I really think Deep Color should not be enabled by default in any profiles, since not all displays support it.


I'd normally agree, but this issue only came up on 720 displays, and apparently they can support it if the profile is saved from the user's own Framemeister.

Unless I start getting emails about 1080p displays balking at deep color, I'll just leave them as is for now.
_________________
Framemeister profiles: http://www.firebrandx.com/framemeisterprofiles.html

NES NTSC Palettes: http://www.firebrandx.com/nespalette.html

SNES Serial DB: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1HYLy_TTDop_FzuX6qnxuQI43upg4raXfno582taO744/pubhtml


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister
PostPosted: Mon May 08, 2017 11:16 am 


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Do we see any difference between enabling and disabling deep color support ? I would assume that this option is used on the Marvell processor only, so as long as we're using integer scales done on the FPGA level I don't think we would see any differences.


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister
PostPosted: Mon May 08, 2017 12:07 pm 


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Fudoh wrote:
Do we see any difference between enabling and disabling deep color support ? I would assume that this option is used on the Marvell processor only, so as long as we're using integer scales done on the FPGA level I don't think we would see any differences.


Perhaps on the horizontal axis where integer scaling pretty much is impossible on the Framemeister? To be honest, I'm not even sure what deep color mode actually does. I always assumed it added to the over all quality of the image.
_________________
Framemeister profiles: http://www.firebrandx.com/framemeisterprofiles.html

NES NTSC Palettes: http://www.firebrandx.com/nespalette.html

SNES Serial DB: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1HYLy_TTDop_FzuX6qnxuQI43upg4raXfno582taO744/pubhtml


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