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 Post subject: Saturn Controller?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 04, 2009 1:08 am 



Joined: 03 Dec 2009
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I've seen much talk here about how the Saturn pad is by far the superior way to play shmups.

1. Does it give enough advantage over an Xbox 360 controller to warrant the purchase? I find the stick to be a good enough way to control, though with faster moving ships like DDP's A-type and the third and fourth speed settings in Dangun Feveron, it seems to be a little harder to be accurate. And the D-pad sucks, of course.

2. Where exactly would I buy one? I think I'd need a converter, right? Are there any USB pads that will work just as well? I'd prefer not to fuss about with too many extra peripherals and converters and adapters and so on. I mainly just want to get a decent D-pad, with minimum effort and cost. I'm in the UK, so UK retailers are preferred.


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 Post subject: Re: Saturn Controller?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 04, 2009 1:09 am 



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This is in the wrong forum, sorry. Could a mod move it?


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 Post subject: Re: Saturn Controller?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 04, 2009 1:26 am 


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Ive heard the same that the saturn controller is one of the best pads for shmups, thats if you prefer the 8 way dpad over the NES cross type, if u prefer the other get a dreamcast pad, since ive heard that is great for shmups aswell.

I could do with getting myself a saturn pad aswell. I remember some1 on this forum had posted a picture of a usb reproduction he had just bought. Im wondering if whoever it is could tell us what he thought of it since hes had it for a while now. And also tell us who makes em and how i can get hold of one myself.
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 Post subject: Re: Saturn Controller?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 04, 2009 3:05 am 



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I bought a USB saturn pad for my PS3. It works brilliantly for Street fighter which is what I bought it for. Its also a million times better for any 2D game that uses the Dpad since the PS3 uses those silly stick out knobs and calls it a Dpad that hurts your thumb.

However, I cannot compare to the 360 since I don't own one.


To cut a long story short -

Very smooth dpad operation, easy on the thumb, directional abilities 2nd to none for 2D
6 button set up ideal for Street fighter
On PS3, the button config is the first 4 buttons going from left to right make up the PS standard, buttons 3&6 are shoulders.

I last used it on bomberman ultra which was fantastic. Except the stupid thing crashes every 5 minutes.

Overall, I liked it alot. But I prefer sticks for shmups in general. The last time I played a Saturn shmup was about 3 years using the pad, and I felt a stick was better still.. Although, as pads go, you can't go wrong with a saturn pad.
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 Post subject: Re: Saturn Controller?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 04, 2009 3:17 pm 


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if you want to use a saturn pad on a 360 - USB saturn pads won't work, you'd need one of these viewtopic.php?f=6&t=27763 and a PS2 saturn pad (expensive i think?). or mod a saturn pad yourself.


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 Post subject: Re: Saturn Controller?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 04, 2009 3:20 pm 


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neorichieb1971 wrote:
I last used it on bomberman ultra which was fantastic. Except the stupid thing crashes every 5 minutes.


Told you. And you need to use the R3 button to change camera angles as they reset every round, else I would try using a Saturn pad.
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 Post subject: Re: Saturn Controller?
PostPosted: Sun Dec 06, 2009 8:04 pm 


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Im looking for a pad for the PC but it would of been nice to use it with a 360 since i plan on getting a 360 in the next 2-3 months but i suppose i could always stick to the std 360 pad to play shmups and the odd or run and gunner or jrpg.

The 360 pads cant be that bad can they? :D Hell atm im using the logitech dual action ps2 clone with a utilty to give the analog stick a deadzone (dpad is useless) so anything probably would be a improvement over what im using atm. (athough tbh i have got used to playing with the analog stick somewhat and really dont mind using it in some shmups, but touhou type games where i need to make very small movements are totally out of the question)

after looking on the net i first found these limited edition sega branded pads which you 1 get for free (while stocks last) if you sub for 3 months for their vip service, Play sega is a new browser based gaming system. Its just started and in beta, so they have very little mega drive games (no other consoles atm) available to play http://www.playsega.co.uk/ 3 months sub is $15 plus $5 for shipping plus u can buy extra pads aswell.

Image

Comments about the pad are mixed some really like them, others really hate the pads or say they are faulty. It seems they are not made by sega, prolly sub contracted to a company in china who make those bootlegs. While i dont think ill bother with the since it can take over a month waiting till you get them (although i believe they are UK based some i may get them sooner) Possibly Sega collectors might be intrested in optaining a pad or two.

Looking at those bootlegs off ebay. Although ill be doing some more research as it seems there are different bootlegger types, i hear those SLS pads to be really good (question is there just 1 overall sls pad just with different colours cos ive seen black and grey so far. Or is there different SLS saturn pads with different build quality?)

Image

i just need to look into it abit more as im a total ebay noob and never really trused the whole thing before. But considering the total lack nowadays of anything decent for the PC on my local high street stores im having to change my ways. Bah Humbug!!! :P
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 Post subject: Re: Saturn Controller?
PostPosted: Sun Dec 06, 2009 11:44 pm 


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I just got one of those white SLS pads last week-end. I'm wondering if there's a bit of a break-in period with the D-pad, sometimes my directions cut out, or I hit a diagonal by accident, but I never had anything like this with my official Saturn controllers. The face buttons definitely needed a couple of hours until they felt like my other official controllers but they are fine now.

Otherwise, it's much simpler and familiar to use than my MadCatz SFIV Fightpad, especially the button mapping, which are awful on the Fightpad.

I also tried to swap the PCB into a skeleton SS pad shell, but the triggers are slightly different. Oh well.


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 Post subject: Re: Saturn Controller?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 2:11 am 


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iatneH wrote:
I also tried to swap the PCB into a skeleton SS pad shell, but the triggers are slightly different. Oh well.


It might be worth your time looking into the play sega pad PCB and if that will fit.

But if u do want to get a pad you might have to hurry since sega up the ante on advertising today so there may be alot of ppl wanting them due to it been an officially endorced pad.
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 Post subject: Re: Saturn Controller?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 2:03 pm 



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Normal 360 pads are aweful for dpad play, can't stand them. Later iterations have improved the pad feel slightly ... but ... layout still sucks and feel/execution is not good in my opinion (admittedly more relevant for fighting games perhaps).

... Saturn pads always were great, with a somewhat different feeling dpad than most controllers, but one that you quickly came to appreciate. Of course the layout is just plain sensible for fighters or shmups.

Long story short for minimal fuss get a madcatz pad - pretty effective

To slightly improve upon that; modding or 'convertering' original/remake pad is probably doable but I wouldn't really recommend the hassle unless you know you are in love with the orignal saturn feel already.

There is a certain amount of break-in that can happen with a saturn pad - frees it up a little. I have quite a selection of original saturn pads with noticeable differences in feel, also a couple of the pc usb ones which are pretty damn faithful and function great.

Rather than break-in I think the biggest change will simply just happen by getting used to using the saturn pad more and more. If cut-outs or incorrect inputs occur then it maybe more a sign of a faulty product unless it can be attributed to finger fumbling ;)


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 Post subject: Re: Saturn Controller?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 8:14 pm 


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For me i should get used to a saturn pad pritty quickly as even though ive use Playstaion pads or clones since i bought a PS! back in the day, the console i had b4 was a megadrive and i remember how awsome they were especially the 6 button for SF2
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 Post subject: Re: Saturn Controller?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 08, 2009 12:30 am 


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fatnoze wrote:
1. Does it give enough advantage over an Xbox 360 controller to warrant the purchase? I find the stick to be a good enough way to control, though with faster moving ships like DDP's A-type and the third and fourth speed settings in Dangun Feveron, it seems to be a little harder to be accurate. And the D-pad sucks, of course.


My biggest issue with the official 360 controller D-pad is the flat, featureless hard surface. There's nothing to grip my thumb and I just slide around too much without getting enough force on the D-pad.

I took a razor blade and scored the surface. Just went back and forth over the flat area in various angles. It sounds cheesy, but this added enough texture for my thumb to grip the surface.

While this didn't fix all the issues with the 360 controller, it did make a big improvement for me.
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 Post subject: Re: Saturn Controller?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 08, 2009 5:07 am 


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The SLS pad is not a boot

Why are people still saying this

SLS is Sega Logistical Services


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 Post subject: Re: Saturn Controller?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 08, 2009 7:07 am 


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Mine said "Sega Logistios [sic] Service" on the box.

Though truly, for the price I am not disappointed with the performance all that much, it is quite good... I just hope my D-pad issues go away eventually.


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 Post subject: Re: Saturn Controller?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 08, 2009 3:50 pm 



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Ed Oscuro wrote:
The SLS pad is not a boot

Why are people still saying this

SLS is Sega Logistical Services



This is true but i think its fair to say it is a version. In the same way that there were always several versions of the saturn pad designs.

That being said the differences are small and totally not relevant to most people; all you need to know is that its better than pretty much most other dpads out there and for the price the SLS pads are great - its good to see decent design have a win now and again :)


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 Post subject: Re: Saturn Controller?
PostPosted: Thu Dec 10, 2009 8:26 pm 


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:idea: ive heard of sega logistics services b4 i didnt connect it to the SLS logo thanks you letting me know even if u were abit loud :wink:
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 Post subject: Re: Saturn Controller?
PostPosted: Sat Dec 12, 2009 9:54 pm 


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gray117 wrote:
That being said the differences are small and totally not relevant to most people; all you need to know is that its better than pretty much most other dpads out there and for the price the SLS pads are great - its good to see decent design have a win now and again :)

What are these differences you speak of?
TrevHead (TVR) wrote:
:idea: ive heard of sega logistics services b4 i didnt connect it to the SLS logo thanks you letting me know even if u were abit loud :wink:

Sorry for that, it's just because I said it only a week ago, and there was another discussion a month ago as well


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 Post subject: Re: Saturn Controller?
PostPosted: Sun Dec 13, 2009 11:54 pm 


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Ed Oscuro wrote:
gray117 wrote:
That being said the differences are small and totally not relevant to most people; all you need to know is that its better than pretty much most other dpads out there and for the price the SLS pads are great - its good to see decent design have a win now and again :)

What are these differences you speak of?


I read on another forum somewhere that the Grey SLS pads were better then the others, ive no idea if this is true or just some guys opinion.

Personally im guessing that cheap pads (or anything thats mechanical and precise) are like cheap guitars (been very much into guitars when i was younger) that is as long as the design is sound, even cheap gear can play very well just as long as you're lucky enough to get hold of a good example not a bad one.

Ed Oscuro wrote:
TrevHead (TVR) wrote:
:idea: ive heard of sega logistics services b4 i didnt connect it to the SLS logo thanks you letting me know even if u were abit loud :wink:

Sorry for that, it's just because I said it only a week ago, and there was another discussion a month ago as well


np, It's rare i visit the hardware section so i had no idea about previous posts but with this been a generic question normally i would of looked at past threads but since some1 else had already opened a thread i jumped in here instead, just call me lazy :)
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 Post subject: Re: Saturn Controller?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 14, 2009 12:46 am 


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TrevHead (TVR) wrote:
Personally im guessing that cheap pads (or anything thats mechanical and precise) are like cheap guitars (been very much into guitars when i was younger) that is as long as the design is sound, even cheap gear can play very well just as long as you're lucky enough to get hold of a good example not a bad one.

I call baloney - there aren't a wide variety of results you can get from a controller, either the button breaks out or it works fine (until the rubber caps wear out, that is). A piece of gear where fine tolerances (or the luck of the draw) can determine whether you get good compatibility or performance within a desired range has to be somewhat more complicated, like a piano, camera lens, firearm, or as you say a guitar. All that can go wrong with a controller is going to be mainly determined by how rough it's treated, the build quality - things that don't change for the run as the manufacturing tolerances of these are tighter than they need to give consistent results, i.e. the d-pad moves smoothly, the buttons come up after being pressed.

I have three of these pads; I've only been using one but all three handle just the same except for the d-pads. The one I'm using feels a bit easier to press in (like a button) or move around, and the surface feels smoother than the unused ones. That's no doubt because I haven't been using it because the texture on the top is identical (lol, finger grease).


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 Post subject: Re: Saturn Controller?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 14, 2009 1:54 am 


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yea you might be right i was mainly think about the d-pad but then these are still simple things with at a guess only the tension of a spring. It was a conclusion that was based on different ppl saying different things about the same pad which could also be just ppl with differing standards as to what they find as acceptable
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 Post subject: Re: Saturn Controller?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 14, 2009 3:21 am 


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Hmm...

I just spent a few minutes fiddling with the d-pads and clicking the left shoulder buttons...there may be some difference between pads on these areas. Probably microswitches to blame if so.

I wonder, is there any tool or game out there that just records the number of button presses? I could use that to count to a set number and then factor in the number of "misses" and after a number of runs see if there's any statistical difference between the pads. The alternative would be to do groups of ten.

I'm still skeptical, but I really should consider that it would be possible that there could be differences between these pads. I think it's just as likely that the design is kind of wonky so if you don't hold it just right it's prone to having differences. A possibility would be if there were different brands of microswitches and the factory was throwing some cheap ones in. Part mix & match is a big possibility if the Chinese factory is engaging in production overruns. These pads did come from China (or Hong Kong, same difference), after all.

Anyway, I guess this issue is not closed just yet.


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 Post subject: Re: Saturn Controller?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 14, 2009 4:02 am 


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I have three of the new pads, and one "true" offical pad from a few years ago. The only difference I've ever noticed is that the shoulder buttons on the "true" pad are slightly stiffer than the newer pads. This is not a plus, however. Then again, since I only have one "true" pad I might have gotten an abnormal one.

I remember a lengthy thread detailing everone's experiences when they first popped up. The general consensus is that if they were bootlegs they were damn good ones. Boots or not, pick 'em up.
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 Post subject: Re: Saturn Controller?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 14, 2009 7:18 am 


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Funny, I thought the shoulders could be improved, could see how somebody might like the click registering but they're just not responsive to every click attempt. 'course the PlayStation and Xbox style shoulders have ruined me there. I'm guessing these are an improved later run, in any case. Still not outright boots (at worst they're production overruns, which is still piracy, but the same design and at least equivalent parts, from what you say) :mrgreen:


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 Post subject: Re: Saturn Controller?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 15, 2009 1:36 pm 



Joined: 25 Jul 2008
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Ed Oscuro wrote:
gray117 wrote:
That being said the differences are small and totally not relevant to most people; all you need to know is that its better than pretty much most other dpads out there and for the price the SLS pads are great - its good to see decent design have a win now and again :)

What are these differences you speak of?
[


I assume that you've bumped (no pun intended) against most if not all these differences by now and basically come down to a personal preference on feel - I don't think there is much difference in anything technically in a bad way except maybe some sponginess on shoulders - and in general I don't use shoulders at all unless I have to ...

One of the more interesting fundimental differences was the pad that looked like this (first Pal model looked like this - couldn't say for other regions): http://www.estarland.com/images//Extra_ ... /satc1.jpg ... Back in the day I heard it was to supposed to be down to large western hands or something (rumour?); I wonder is anyone actually prefered them - I have to imagine not?


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 Post subject: Re: Saturn Controller?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 15, 2009 11:56 pm 



Joined: 08 Aug 2009
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I dont know if this has been mentioned yet, but from initial reports, the play sega saturn pad is chintzy crap - you would do better getting one from ebay. I think there is an SRK thread about saturn pads that might mention reputable sellers. You would think coming from sega / a company owned by sega that they would be closer in quality to their original ones, but I guess it wasn't worth the effort for them.


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