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 Post subject: The Supergun discussion and Q&A thread.
PostPosted: Sat Jan 10, 2009 7:41 pm 



Joined: 10 Oct 2008
Posts: 32
Hi guys! :D

I suggested the idea for this topic to Incognoscente, who said he would be happy to sticky it! I thought it would make sense, as there seem to be so many members here that play arcade boards.

Here, we can discuss all aspects regarding superguns. Im sure some people are more knowledgable than others, and its a good thing to share knowledge of this stuff with people keen to learn, or maybe considerig attempting some kind of project. Believe me, theyre a lot of fun. :D
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 Post subject: What pinout configuration do you use?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 6:45 pm 



Joined: 10 Oct 2008
Posts: 32
Ok, al ittle slow to start of with, so I figured I would get us going with this topic-

What pinout configuration do you use?

Typically, every jamma project, supergun or consolisation uses db15 connectors for joystick ports as they are the most efficient, allowing you to use neo geo peripherals straight away.

Here is what I use-

1- Ground
2- Hard Kick (capcom)
3- Select (neo), Medium Kick (capcom), E (atomiswave)
4- D (neo/ atomiswave), Light kick (capcom)
5- B (neo/ atomiswave), Medium punch (capcom)
6- Down
7- Right
8- +5 volts (needed for certain adaptors and neo pads/ sticks)
9- Not used, but can be connected as Neo D (like pin 4)
10- Select (neo), Medium Kick (capcom), E (atomiswave)
11- Start
12- C (neo/ atomiswave) Hard punch (capcom)
13- A (neo/ atomiswave) Light punch (capcom)
14- Left
15- Up

So far, I have found this to be the most overall useful to players. It allows the use of all neo geo sticks, as well as the psx->jamma converters supplied by laugh, and also the psx-neo geo converers by totek.com.

Can anyone improve on this? Or do you use a different layout?
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 11:00 pm 


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Joined: 05 Jun 2006
Posts: 466
Location: uk
i have a supergun related question, my tv doesn't display all the picture, the score at the top is off the screen and the left edge is off the screen - what's the most likely reson for the problem? crap supergun? crap tv?

as the screen gets darker the screen seems to get smaller and the score briefly come into view.

the supergun has no internal components, i know some have resistors/capacitors and stuff, could these affect the picture size?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 13, 2009 12:33 pm 



Joined: 10 Oct 2008
Posts: 32
msm wrote:
i have a supergun related question, my tv doesn't display all the picture, the score at the top is off the screen and the left edge is off the screen - what's the most likely reson for the problem? crap supergun? crap tv?

as the screen gets darker the screen seems to get smaller and the score briefly come into view.

the supergun has no internal components, i know some have resistors/capacitors and stuff, could these affect the picture size?


This is an age old problem that some TV's have running NTSC equipment in the UK via scart (I assume thats what youre doing right?). Theres not really a lot you can do TBH, some boards are worse than others. My Ultimate MK3 has a huge black bar at the bottom of the screen, and my third strike loses screen on the left and bottom. Only way to beat it is to use a monitor of some sort that allows you to move the position of the screen. :roll:
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 13, 2009 6:41 pm 


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Joined: 05 Jun 2006
Posts: 466
Location: uk
thanks for the reply, yeah i'm using a tv with scart, tried 3 different tv's all had the same problem to different extent.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 13, 2009 7:03 pm 


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Joined: 26 Mar 2005
Posts: 1252
Location: Vancouver, BC
you need to access the service menu of the tv set. Just about every tv has one, but it uses a code for access as it's not for noobs.
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 13, 2009 7:10 pm 



Joined: 10 Oct 2008
Posts: 32
Kingbuzzo wrote:
you need to access the service menu of the tv set. Just about every tv has one, but it uses a code for access as it's not for noobs.


Very intriguing....do you mean a method similar to accessing a hidden DVD player menu that enables multi region? Im pretty sure this isnt just a case of picking up a TV controller and going through all available menus. Countless people have had this problem, but I never heard of this method. Can you elaborate a bit?
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 13, 2009 7:39 pm 


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Location: uk
Kingbuzzo wrote:
you need to access the service menu of the tv set. Just about every tv has one, but it uses a code for access as it's not for noobs.


even on cheapo 14" tv's ? i've heard of these service menu things but thought it was reserved for more flashy/expensive tv's?

fire-bug - here's a link for how to access a service menu's on sony tv's, i don't know much about it but it might give you an idea what it is, this is sort of what i thought you meant about getting an adjustable tv.

http://myweb.accessus.net/~090/sonypal.html


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 14, 2009 5:33 pm 



Joined: 10 Oct 2008
Posts: 32
Wow.......f*cking wow.....15 years using sony TV's to play jamma boards and I never knew this. This topic is earning its keep already.

Only issue is, different pcbs have different 'positions' when displaying, does this mean you would need to service menu everytime you change board?
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 15, 2009 2:13 pm 


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Joined: 08 Dec 2006
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Location: scotland,edinburgh
Fire-bug wrote:
Wow.......f*cking wow.....15 years using sony TV's to play jamma boards and I never knew this. This topic is earning its keep already.

Only issue is, different pcbs have different 'positions' when displaying, does this mean you would need to service menu everytime you change board?

yep same as swapping pcbs on a cab !
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 7:14 pm 


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Joined: 09 Dec 2008
Posts: 3
Location: Gettysburg, PA, USA
I have a few questions.

I believe it was said that Genesis/Megadrive controllers operate in a similar way Neo-Geo ones do, as far as how the send signals across the pins. Would a 9 Pin To 15 Pin converter be enough to get a Genesis pad working on a 15 pin plug?


Regarding the pinout:
8- +5 volts (needed for certain adaptors and neo pads/ sticks)

Would that be needed if wiring directly to buttons/sticks?
I'm thinking of using Cherry Switches to make another custom controller if all that needs to be done is wire them directly to the cord. I use them in a PSX padhack at the moment, and if it's easy enough would like to make another.
But I'm not exactly sure what that (+5 volts pin) is/how to wire that up if it's needed, I'm not experienced with soldering and making electronics.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 1:23 pm 



Joined: 10 Oct 2008
Posts: 32
JedahsMinistry wrote:
I have a few questions.

I believe it was said that Genesis/Megadrive controllers operate in a similar way Neo-Geo ones do, as far as how the send signals across the pins. Would a 9 Pin To 15 Pin converter be enough to get a Genesis pad working on a 15 pin plug?


Regarding the pinout:
8- +5 volts (needed for certain adaptors and neo pads/ sticks)

Would that be needed if wiring directly to buttons/sticks?
I'm thinking of using Cherry Switches to make another custom controller if all that needs to be done is wire them directly to the cord. I use them in a PSX padhack at the moment, and if it's easy enough would like to make another.
But I'm not exactly sure what that (+5 volts pin) is/how to wire that up if it's needed, I'm not experienced with soldering and making electronics.


If megardive controllers operate on a 'one function to one pin' basis, then you could just snip of the head and wire the lead to a 15 pin head (the configuration you need is in the second post of this thread). I doubt there is a lead that would convert it outright.

The +5 volts is only needed for converters and certain sticks (like the newer neo geo cd stick, and neo geo pads). Im going to do a tutorial for wiring sticks for supergun use in the next few days, that should help you out a bit. :D
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Johnny5, Arc, alberto1225, jedahsministry, Sploit, Kahn, Gorbct, Adderall, Oxoid, Dragoforce, Luckyday, Acidburns, Domino, Stan, Ichiro, Star Fighter, Dr No (x2!), Ed Oscuro, Solemn Nomad, kevkevkevkev


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 Post subject: supergun power supply question
PostPosted: Tue Jan 20, 2009 9:49 pm 



Joined: 20 Jan 2009
Posts: 2
Hi Guys,

Im completely new to this site, and superguns in general so please bear with me...

Anyway i just recently acquired a 4 slot MVS board and i wanted to hook it up to my tv. Im no electronics expert, but i can solder and have half a brain - so i thought i'd search the net for some instructions to follow

Anyway basically my question is what is better / safer / easier to use - a modified ATX PC PSU or a proper arcade alternating PSU? Also the guides i've found using arcade PSUs all involve additional electronics parts such as isolation transformers and AC line filters - are these unnecessary using the ATX method?

Its probably a dumb question - but any help is much appreciated :)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 20, 2009 11:26 pm 



Joined: 10 Oct 2008
Posts: 32
To be honest, a desk top psu is enought to power a 4 slot, and a lot more compact than an ATX or an actual arcade psu. Although I would choose anarcade psu over an ATX any day of the week. The only superguns that should use ATX's are those pitiful mak/vogotek superguns.

Having said this, a vogotek supergun might be your cheapest bet, as you only need to power the 4 slot. Then just use the controller ports on the board with neo sticks.
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2009 10:18 am 



Joined: 20 Jan 2009
Posts: 2
thanks for your advice fire-bug... im going to go with the ATX. I would buy one, but im a cheap skate - and it looks like it'll be a fun project. I'll just buy an RGB converter and the PSU and use the joystick ports like you suggested

cant wait to play neo geo arcade at home!!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2009 6:43 pm 



Joined: 10 Oct 2008
Posts: 32
nebulon wrote:
thanks for your advice fire-bug... im going to go with the ATX. I would buy one, but im a cheap skate - and it looks like it'll be a fun project. I'll just buy an RGB converter and the PSU and use the joystick ports like you suggested

cant wait to play neo geo arcade at home!!


Go for it dude. The vogotek is limited, but a safe bet for people looking to get the jist of how jamma works without breaking the bank.

Although if it wasnt for the fact that the 4 slot has the necessary ports for neo controllers, I would tell you its your funeral, as the vogotek only accepts megadrive/ genesis controllers, and its not about playing arcade boards with pad! :wink:
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jan 25, 2009 2:28 am 



Joined: 10 Oct 2008
Posts: 32
Quite a few people have asked me how to wire joysticks for superguns recentley, I will do a tutorial on it later this week, stay tuned. :)
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2009 8:32 pm 



Joined: 28 Jan 2009
Posts: 18
Hello,

New here :D

I am going to build my first ever Supergun. At this point I am searching for a good power supply. I want to have a Tabletop unit and I know that it will need a 12V,5V,-5V power. I have been looking on some electronic sites trying to find a good one.

Would this one be a good way to go?...

http://www.jameco.com/webapp/wcs/stores ... Id=221702&

It is rather expensive, but it is one of the only Tabletops I have found that use 12V,5V,-5V at high enough amps. BTW, a AC to DC power supply is the right type, right?

Any suggestions on a good power supply with all mentioned options that is cheaper than this one?

Thanks,
Gamester

-------------------------------------------
Update
-------------------------------------------

Actually, upon closer inspection, I don't think that power supply has -5V. I think I misread it.

Any suggestion to set me straight on power supplies are welcomed.

Thanks,
Gamester


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2009 8:56 pm 



Joined: 10 Oct 2008
Posts: 32
Youre right dude, it doesnt have -5, and thats way to expensive. Also, the 5volts is not very strong. Do you really need -5 volts? If not, try these-

http://www.mpja.com/prodinfo.asp?number=17507+PS
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2009 9:11 pm 



Joined: 28 Jan 2009
Posts: 18
Cool, I like those prices a lot better!

Well, I don't know about the -5v. I would like to build a system that is capable of playing all Jamma games correctly, like the MAS Supernova and GWT HGA supposedly does.

What games use the -5v for sound anyways?

Thanks,
Gamester


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 30, 2009 3:28 am 



Joined: 28 Jan 2009
Posts: 18
Well, before I buy the power supply Fire-bug suggested, does anyone know anywhere that I could find a Tabletop/DIN power supply that uses 5V, 12V, and -5V? I have searched the web for days and have not been able to find one.

Thanks,
Gamester


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 30, 2009 4:04 am 



Joined: 26 Jan 2005
Posts: 6711
Location: Bedford, UK
Only older games use -5V, Double Dragon is one. You can play it without -5V you just don't get the music.
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jan 31, 2009 4:46 am 



Joined: 31 Jan 2009
Posts: 1
Hello all!

Im a complete noob to the world of arcade/supergun etc.
I normally play the shmups on PS2/DC/Saturn, but now i want to play Dodonpachi Dai-Fukkatsu badly!
It doesnt look like its getting ported to any console anytime soon (unless im mistaken). So i was wondering what exactly id need to buy?
Like would a supergun work if i bought the donpachi kit?
If so, which supergun would i need? theres so many to choose from!
Sorry, im all new to this field of shmups.
Appreciate all help from replies.
Cheers


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Feb 01, 2009 8:05 pm 



Joined: 28 Jan 2009
Posts: 18
Well, I don't know about the Dodonpachi Dai-Fukkatsu game, but for a site that helps you get a general idea about building a JAMMA Supergun, I'm starting here...

http://www.multimods.com/sgun.html

Building a Supergun can be a lot cheaper than buying one, if you are a little on the electrical savvy side that is ;)


I also have a couple other questions that come to mind about building a Supergun:

1. My all time favorite arcade game is Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles and I have noticed that on nearly every purchasable and custom Supergun I have seen there are only 2 player ports. TMNT is a 4 player game, so how would that work?

2. What is an Attenuation Circuit and is it really needed? If so, how do you make one?

Thanks a bunch,
Gamester


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Feb 03, 2009 1:12 am 



Joined: 10 Oct 2008
Posts: 32
Gamester wrote:
Well, I don't know about the Dodonpachi Dai-Fukkatsu game, but for a site that helps you get a general idea about building a JAMMA Supergun, I'm starting here...

http://www.multimods.com/sgun.html

Building a Supergun can be a lot cheaper than buying one, if you are a little on the electrical savvy side that is ;)


I also have a couple other questions that come to mind about building a Supergun:

1. My all time favorite arcade game is Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles and I have noticed that on nearly every purchasable and custom Supergun I have seen there are only 2 player ports. TMNT is a 4 player game, so how would that work?

2. What is an Attenuation Circuit and is it really needed? If so, how do you make one?

Thanks a bunch,
Gamester


Building a supergun is indeed an enjoyable experience. The first time you power it up and see your fave game boot up is hugely rewarding!

Or you can drop me a pm if youre unsure about doing the job yourself :lol:

As for turtles, there are 2 additonal sets of pin connectors on the game board where you would attach the loom for players 3 and 4. The only problem with this is that each player has to be a certain turtle, the four players cannot pick which one they want to be. Player 1= Leonardo, 2= Michael Angelo, 3= Donatello and player 4 is Raphael. If you can put up with this, then all you need is a loom with control ports that plugs staright to the board. Something similar I am selling on ebay at the moment for Dungeons and Dragons-

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ... 0325540937

There are replacement eproms you can get that turn the game into a 2 player version and allow you to pick which turtle you want though. The Simpsons has the same dilemma.

As for attenuation, its to improve sound and syncing as far as I know, although its never been an issue or something Ive needed to put on any of my superguns, so dont let it bother you to much.
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Johnny5, Arc, alberto1225, jedahsministry, Sploit, Kahn, Gorbct, Adderall, Oxoid, Dragoforce, Luckyday, Acidburns, Domino, Stan, Ichiro, Star Fighter, Dr No (x2!), Ed Oscuro, Solemn Nomad, kevkevkevkev


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Feb 03, 2009 5:53 am 



Joined: 28 Jan 2009
Posts: 18
Awesome, Fire-bug to the rescue again! :D

Looks like you are using the same style of connectors for the controllers as I am going to, the DB-15 (DA-15) used to hook up Neo-Geo controllers. I might just have to have you make one of those cables for TMNT for me maybe.

Do you have anymore information on those replacement eproms for 2 player mode? That sounds like something that I might just try also.

Thanks a bunch,
Gamester


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 05, 2009 7:13 am 



Joined: 03 Feb 2009
Posts: 391
Location: The hood
Stupid question from someone that knows absolutely nothing about this stuff: I have an arcade stick for the PS3 and an arcade stick on the way for the 360... is there any way I could get a Supergun that supports these?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Feb 07, 2009 4:07 pm 



Joined: 10 Oct 2008
Posts: 32
Gamester wrote:
Do you have anymore information on those replacement eproms for 2 player mode? That sounds like something that I might just try also.

Thanks a bunch,
Gamester


http://cgi.ebay.com/TEENAGE-MUTANT-NING ... .m20.l1116

Chacranajxy wrote:
Stupid question from someone that knows absolutely nothing about this stuff: I have an arcade stick for the PS3 and an arcade stick on the way for the 360... is there any way I could get a Supergun that supports these?


Not yet, maybe not ever. The more advanced stuff gets, the harder it is to mix the new with the old. :cry:
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Feb 07, 2009 5:50 pm 



Joined: 03 Feb 2009
Posts: 391
Location: The hood
I see... well, perhaps I'll have to check with some people about getting my HRAP3 modded...


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Feb 07, 2009 9:25 pm 



Joined: 28 Jan 2009
Posts: 18
Thanks for that link Fire-bug, I'll have to see if I have any left over money to get one of those after the build.

I got an electrical question for anyone who knows. Would a couple of momentary push button switches rated at 0.5Amps@125VAC work ok as coin insert buttons on a supergun with a 5Amp power supply at 5VDC?

Thanks,
Gamester


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