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 Post subject: NTSC-J Xbox 360 owner's manual
PostPosted: Sat Nov 29, 2008 11:13 pm 


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Welcome to my guide. This is a growing guide covering everything the shooting game genre offers on the NTSC-J Xbox 360 console.

- Can I modchip/hack/firmware change/modify my Xbox 360 so it can play NTSC-J games/copies?

As per the forum rules: No ISO trading, ROM begging, bootlegging, modchip sales, copyright infringement, or assistance with any of these.


- How can you tell the difference between console versions?

If you're ordering online (which you most likely will be), you can't. There's nothing wrong with owning a Jasper unit over a Falcon, nor is there anything wrong with owning a Falcon over a Jasper. Common sense and recent reports suggest that owning the latest model of the console holds the advantage. A notable advantage which the Jasper has is the on-board 256MB RAM to cover the NXE update which requires a memory card or HDD in Falcon or previous models. 14.2 amps equals a Falcon unit (65nm CPU, 90nm GPU) and 12.1 amps equals a Jasper unit (65nm CPU, 65nm GPU). All Xbox360 Slim units contain the newest chip, Vejle.

Apart from purchasing an Japanese 360 physically, there's no way to tell which unit you will be receiving. You could always try emailing Play-Asia but that will probably get you nowhere (as evident in the rest of the thread).

- What are the benefits of owning a Japanese 360?

Most shmups and other very Japanese-esque games are region locked, and this grants you access to all of them. A majority of NTSC-J games also end up receiving an Asian English release, but not all. Some of them even come out in English before the US, like Blue Dragon or Lost Odyssey.

- What are the disadvantages of owning a Japanese 360?

Some games like Culdcept Saga, Eternal Sonata, Earth Defense Force 2017 and Operation Darkness are region locked to US (NTSC/UC) only. They have Japanese releases, but of course they're all in Japanese. Some games have Asian English releases, like Eternal Sonata for example, but some don't. Eternal Sonata aside, all the others are Japanese. There's a possibility that worthwhile games in the future will be region locked to US only, and you won't be able to play them.

- Is _______ Xbox 360 game compatible with a Japanese 360?

Please see Play-Asia's Xbox360™ Regional Compatibility Guide.

- Is _______ Xbox game backwards compatible with a Japanese 360?

See here. Please refer to Wikipedia's List of Xbox games compatible with Xbox 360.

- Can I create a non-Japanese 360 account on a Japanese 360?

Yes. Just your local account and local email. I would recommend making an account of your own region, and a Japanese account. If you use a non-Japanese account and an NTSC-J game tries to access the JP store, it will give a "service is temporarily unavailable" error. There's details on how to create a JP account below.

- Where can I purchase one from?

Ideally, purchasing a Japanese console within your own region is the cheapest method of purchase. Alternatively, getting someone inside of Japan would be the next best option. Failing that, it's possible to order them from stores online such as Play-Asia, HMV.co.jp or Yes-Asia. There are links to Play-Asia where these games can be purchased below.

- What shooters are available, and what shooters are coming to the Japanese 360?

* Green indicates regionless games, playable with all 360 consoles.

Retail (full price, physical) releases:


Upcoming:

-

Platinum Collection (reprinted, budget) releases:


Games on Demand releases:

Full retail games available on the Hong Kong and Japanese Xbox 360 marketplaces. For region-locking and IP-locking information, see here (Hong Kong store) and here (Japanese store). This is a Japanese Wiki covering games on different Games on Demand content of various regions. As such, this is speaking from a perspective of residents in Japan with NTSC-J consoles. For now, we're going to be looking at the Hong Kong store. The layout of the Wiki's categories are as follows:

First section: no VPN required, no IP-lock. Game was released in Japan.
Second section: no VPN required, no IP-lock. Game was not released in Japan.
Third section: VPN required, IP-locked. Game was released in Japan.
Fourth section: VPN required, IP-locked. Game was not released in Japan.
Fifth section: Region-locked (does not work on NTSC-J 360 consoles).

Before proceeding with a Games on Demand purchase, make sure you understand your download. Generally speaking, most Games on Demand titles are region-locked and IP-locked, although there are some exceptions, like the Hong Kong store's Bullet Soul (region-free, no IP-lock) and Mushihimesama Futari (region-free, IP-locked). Here's a small guideline to follow through with a purchase:

1. Is the game you're looking at buying from the Hong Kong Games on Demand store listed here?
2. Is the game playable on your console's region? Digital and physical releases are the same. Cross-reference with the aforementioned green text and Play-Asia's Xbox360™ Regional Compatibility Guide.
3. Is the game listed in the first two categories of the Wiki? If yes, no VPN is required. Purchase and download.
4. Is the game listed in the third or fourth categories? If yes, a VPN is required for the beginning and end of the download's IP check*.

* The IP-locks only activate at the start and end of the download. You can simply log into a VPN, initiate the download, switch to your own connection, download, and switch back around 90%. You do not need to download the entire game through a VPN.

The below shooting games are available on the Japanese Games on Demand service, consult the above information before proceeding with purchase.


Xbox Live Arcade (XBLA) releases:
(Discontinued games are unavailable, but shmups unavailable on the Japanese store can also be downloaded and played on NTSC-J consoles by purchasing them through non-Japanese accounts)

- Horizontally oriented, scrolling, fixed

  • Scramble
  • Omega Five
  • AEGIS WING (free, not available on the Japanese store)
  • Jetpac Refuelled
  • Heavy Weapon
  • Defender (not available on the Japanese store)
  • R-Type Dimensions
  • Zeit2 (not available on the Japanese store)
  • Trouble Witches Neo!
  • Choplifter HD (not available on the Japanese store)
  • SINE MORA
  • Capcom Arcade Cabinet (Section Z, Side Arms, etc)

- Vertically oriented, scrolling, fixed

  • Ikaruga
  • Galaga
  • Gyruss
  • Xevious
  • Triggerheart Exelica
  • Centipede/Millipede (not available on the Japanese store)
  • Missile Command (not available on the Japanese store)
  • Space Giraffe
  • TEMPEST (also available in Game Room)
  • Galaga Legions
  • Galaga Legions DX
  • 1942 Remake (not available on the Japanese store)
  • Space Invaders Extreme
  • RAYSTORM HD
  • SPACE INVADERS INFINITY GENE
  • THE KING OF FIGHTERS -SKY STAGE-
  • Guwange
  • Strania
  • Radiant Silvergun
  • Capcom Arcade Cabinet (1942, 1943, 1943 Kai, Legendary Wings, EXED EXES, Vulgus, etc)

- Any orientation, fixed/unfixed

  • Every Extend Extreme Extra
  • Time Pilot
  • Assault Heroes
  • ASTEROID (not available on the Japanese store)
  • Battlestar Galactica
  • Crystal Quest
  • Gatling Gears (not available on the Japanese store)
  • Geometry Wars (also included as a bonus game in Project Gotham Racing 4)
  • Mutant Storm Reloaded
  • Mutant Storm Empire
  • Robotron: 2084 (no longer available/pulled from store)
  • Smash TV (no longer available/pulled from store)
  • Undertow
  • Wing Commander Arena (not available on the Japanese store)
  • Assault Heroes 2
  • GEOMETRY WARS RETRO EVOLVED 2
  • Shred Nebula
  • PowerUp Forever
  • 0 Day Attack on Earth
  • DEATH BY CUBE
  • Bangai-O HD Missile Fury
  • Renegade Ops
  • HEXODIUS (not available on the Japanese store)

- Other, borderline genre related

  • Rez HD
  • TRON (not available on the Japanese store)
  • Aces of the Galaxy
  • After Burner Climax
  • Yar's Revenge (not available on the Japanese store)

Game Room:

Game Room is a distribution platform offered in 2010 for 360 and PC (GFWL), which offers a variety of retro titles. Most if not all titles are available worldwide, but for consistency's sake I will list them here. A number of titles also have technical issues, so keep this in mind as there's no indication/warning before purchasing.

  • Battlantis
  • Twinbee *huge lag, lacks voice, has various issues with scenery and music
  • Detana!! Twinbee *small lag, has issues with scenery
  • Devastators
  • Finalizer *small lag, sound differs to the arcade version
  • Flak Attack *was patched. however, small lag post-patch remains
  • Gyruss
  • Jackal/Top Gunner
  • Manhattan 10 Bunsho
  • Juno First
  • Mega Zone *small lag, passable
  • Pooyan *no music
  • Scooter Shooter *no music
  • Scramble
  • Strategy-X
  • Super Cobra
  • Time Pilot
  • Labyrinth Runner

- What if it dies?

It entirely depends on your location. For me in New Zealand, my Japanese 360 died and I had it repaired. It was sent to Australia where it was repaired and sent back to me. Some parts of the world will not allow you to have your console repaired. Sometimes they will replace consoles with working ones, so make sure that if yours dies, that they've made a note not to replace your unit with another, as it's most likely going to be a unit of your own region. Microsoft have announced that they will cover dead 360s even if they don't have the RRoD, and no additional charge is given. It can take anywhere up to a month to successfully get through the repair process (depending on distance, and work load)

- What are the differences between the Japanese and US marketplaces?

Back when I first got a Japanese account in 2007, it seriously lacked content beyond having iDOLM@STER DLC and a few other things. Thankfully this has changed over the years, and now the Japanese store is actually quite worthwhile (to the point where my main account is Japanese) as it contains things like the Japanese Inside Xbox, interviews and other stuff. However, it still lacks a fair amount of stuff which the US store has, such as Netflix or Rock Band DLC.

- What about DLC? What can I do with it?

Most of the DLC available is region locked as well, so this means you won't be able to purchase DLC inside Japanese games when using an American account UNLESS the game and content is the same and is uploaded to the US marketplace's servers. Outside of games, you can purchase DLC at the marketplace by using --providing you either have a credit card or points code. Late '07 they removed the ability to add foreign credit cards, and now foreign cards no longer work at all.

Apparently it's possible to purchase Japanese Xbox Live points through a Paypal credit card (US only), see here. This will remain untested and unconfirmed as I can't test this myself.

Points are also region locked, so US/PAL point cards won't work with Japanese accounts. Play-Asia now offers digital codes via e-mail as of the 3rd of September, 2010

- Will required patches for Japanese 360 games work if I log in with an American account?

Patches automatically download when you load a game regardless of your region.

- What about voltages and power supplies?

360 consoles use external power, so you can use a power supply in your own region on a foreign console without any need for conversion. Hong Kong/Chinese Xbox 360s ship with 220v power supplies, while consoles from Japan ship with 110v power supplies.

- Ok, so how do I get a Japanese 360 account?

Updated 20/11/10

Account registration is now even easier.

  • From My Xbox, choose System Settings, and set Locale to Japan.
  • From My Xbox, choose Xbox Live and press A.
  • Press A on the first screen, choose "Create an account" on the next.
  • Enter anything for your real name.
  • Enter your email and password, they can be anything.
  • Choose a secret question, enter anything for an answer. The secret question should be in Japanese.
  • Enter date of birth.
  • Skip through all of the proceeding menus, then it will proceed to create your account.
  • It will generate a random gamertag for you, which you can change afterwards for free.
  • If successful, your account should show the store names above My Xbox (on the dashboard) as ゲームマーケットプレース and ビデオマーケットプレース.
  • To change your gamertag, go to your profile and select "Change Gamertag".
  • You're done! Congratulations on your brand new Japanese 360 account!


--- If you're asked to put in a zip code, which you shouldn't be, but is required for credit card registration, choose 530-0001 and it should automatically fill out everything.

- So now that I have one, what can I download?

Things to look for: 無料 (free), and ゲームのデモ (demos). There's a bunch of free gamer icons for Puyo Puyo Fever on the marketplace, plus a few others for Xbox Originals. There's a Raiden Fighters Aces demo as well. But really, not much unless you get yourself some points. There was a time where some demos were Japanese marketplace-exclusive, like Ninja Gaiden 2 and Eternal Sonata, but that's long gone. You can also freely download a bunch of trailers, for games like IDOLM@STER Live for You or Agarest Senki.

- Can I use a Japanese account for online gaming?

Yes. Accounts are basically the same, and unlike buying DLC, Xbox Gold cards do not have any region protection. Even if your credit card doesn't work, US/EU Gold membership codes can be applied to Japanese accounts. Credit cards can be removed from the Xbox.com website. My Xbox > Accounts > Edit Payment Options > Edit/Remove. Keep in mind that credit cards can only be removed from Xbox.com's official site if the removal of credit cards is required by that region's law.

- What are some region locked Japanese exclusives for the 360?

Practically every shmup is exclusive, excluding Mamorukun, Ketsui, Raiden IV and Under Defeat HD, which are also available on PS3.

- What about the dashboard? Can that be changed?

The dashboard can be changed into any language, but having and using a Japanese account will mean that marketplace related items will be in Japanese, while the rest is in English. Bringing up the guide button while having an English interface, and moving to the far left tab will allow you to navigate the marketplace in English. This won't change the marketplace's language, but at least you can easily get to sections of the marketplace via this tab.

- Can I exchange x accessory from x region to another region Xbox 360?

Yes. Console accessories such as memory units, headsets, HDDs, etc, have no kinds of region locking.

- I have a currently in-use HDD. Can I use it with a Japanese 360?

Yes, but you would need to use the Xbox 360 license migration tool.

- Do I need to upgrade my HDD? Will all the shmups fit on a HDD of x size?

Shmups vary in widely in size. The Japanese Games on Demand releases also include their install sizes, which are also listed above in the "Games on Demand" section. A 20 GB HDD is only around 13400 MB (13.4 GB), so in order to install all shmups, a larger HDD would be required. This list doesn't include XBLA titles.

- What if I download a game from the Japanese marketplace? Won't it be in Japanese?

If it's an XBLA title, it will be in English providing your Xbox Dashboard is also in English. A few games seem to recognize your gamertag's location (NOT your own location, but the marketplace region of your account), such as Castlevania HD, or Bionic Commando.

- How do I change the location in my profile?

You can change your location via Locale under System Settings. This changes the locale displayed in the Motto part of your profile, and briefly appears behind mottos when selecting a person's profile. Generally people just have their locale as their real location, but it can be set to anything without consequences.

- Can I purchase Japanese-only games via the Games on Demand service using a JP account?

Games on Demand titles are locked by IP address. It will say "This content is not available in your current location.", regardless of your console, locale, or gamertag's region. There's an IP check at the beginning and start of the download. It's possible to still purchase foreign Games on Demand titles by initializing the purchase with a VNC proxy. It's only necessary at the beginning and start of the download.

Credits:

http://www.play-asia.com for general region locking stuff
http://www.engadget.com/2008/12/10/insi ... al-consol/ for images
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/09/03 ... t_sept_09/ for Jasper information (via bcass)
http://www.xbox.com
Cuilan, bcass, dieKatze, deexor, colour_thief, nZero


Last edited by Elixir on Sat Mar 05, 2016 8:47 am, edited 209 times in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 29, 2008 11:53 pm 


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Nice one, chap! Can anybody confirm the region-locking status of any of the other key shmups? Not having to buy a new console for Ketsui would be smashing. :wink:

(Apologies if that's been covered elsewhere.)


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 30, 2008 12:18 am 


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You can swap HDDs.

The PSU from an old-model PAL 360 can be used on any model of JPN 360 (I don't know about the situation in the US).

I don't think either of those are mentioned yet, but I'm having trouble with the tiny text.

Elixir wrote:
- What about the dashboard? Can that be changed?

The dashboard can be changed into any language, but having and using a Japanese account will mean that marketplace related items will be in Japanese, while the rest is in English.


That's not the case any more, not with the new dash. Now, the vast majority of items on the dash are in Japanese if you're signed into Japanese account. Changing language through system settings doesn't change this. I had one hell of a job finding the 'redeem points' option last night, as a result.

<edit> Oh, and I think i'm right in saying that *all* Japan-exclusive titles are region locked. It might be easier to whack that in there than try and provide a comprehensive list.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 30, 2008 12:32 am 



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E. Randy Dupre wrote:
You can swap HDDs.



Can you defeat the region lock by installing the game on a Japanese HD (say Raiden IV) and then swaping the HD with a PAL or US model ?


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 30, 2008 12:36 am 


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yojo! wrote:
Can you defeat the region lock by installing the game on a Japanese HD (say Raiden IV) and then swaping the HD with a PAL or US model ?

Even if you've installed the game the system makes you put the disc in to play it, so it'll still reject it if it's the wrong region.
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 30, 2008 12:40 am 


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What a neat list. I'm sure this will really help people. With my recent RROD- I've been considering a newer Japan Region Xbox.

I do have a quick question-

Quote:
- Will required patches for Japanese 360 games work if I log in with an American account?

They should, yes. But you still can't download DLC inside a game with a US account, because the information is simple void of the American marketplace which you're on.


So- let's say I take my American account, run it on a Japan Region Xbox and pop in Raiden Fighters Aces. Does this mean the patches will not download at all? I know that particular game is patch heavy. Your guide almost makes it sound as if I'd need to create a Japan account, download the patches, then play on my American account to get the games to show up.

And again- thanks for taking the time to do the guide- I'm sure this thread will get alot of hits with DOJ, Ketsui, and Deathsmiles all hitting the system.
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 30, 2008 12:41 am 


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yojo! wrote:
E. Randy Dupre wrote:
You can swap HDDs.



Can you defeat the region lock by installing the game on a Japanese HD (say Raiden IV) and then swaping the HD with a PAL or US model ?


no because the disc still has to be in the tray to play it


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 30, 2008 1:35 am 


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E. Randy Dupre wrote:
hat's not the case any more, not with the new dash. Now, the vast majority of items on the dash are in Japanese if you're signed into Japanese account. Changing language through system settings doesn't change this. I had one hell of a job finding the 'redeem points' option last night, as a result.


No, no, it's still true. All contents of the Japanese marketplace is slowly being transferred into complete Japanese, ie. Video Marketplace and Game Marketplace panels, which can't be changed but is part of the Japanese marketplace itself. If you have the language in Japanese, the Friend tab will be in Japanese, the entirety of the guide button will be in Japanese, and so will your profile. It's only the Japanese marketplace related items which can't be altered via the language setting.

Quote:
<edit> Oh, and I think i'm right in saying that *all* Japan-exclusive titles are region locked. It might be easier to whack that in there than try and provide a comprehensive list.


Sure.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 30, 2008 2:15 am 


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Battlesmurf wrote:
So- let's say I take my American account, run it on a Japan Region Xbox and pop in Raiden Fighters Aces.


You will download the updates/patches. These will download regardless of your software/hardware region.
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 30, 2008 2:22 am 



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Thank you for making this! I was going to try and make one but you actually have one and seem to know a lot about it. I thought up some more questions but I forgot them haha. Thanks again!


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 30, 2008 5:11 am 


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Thanks for this guide, I'll be getting a Japanese 360 myself soon.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 30, 2008 5:48 am 


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I can confirm that you can get the update for Raiden Fighters by using a US account.

I put in Raiden IV and Otomedius G and so far there are no updates.


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Okay, just to clear up this downloads issue: *all* automatic game updates/patches will download automatically regardless of which account you're logged into. Put the game into the drive and, if you're logged into Live on any region account at the time, if there's an update available it'll download and install.

You need to be logged into a Japanese Live account if you want to download extra content. That's the difference. Extra content is a manual download. Patches are automatic.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 30, 2008 1:13 pm 


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For the benefit of Europeans, it might be worth noting that it would be better for them to purchase an Asian 360 instead of a Japanese model. Asian 360s are compatible with 99.9% of Japanese software, and they run on 240 volts. If you live in Europe and you buy a Japanese 360 you will need to buy an expensive stepdown converter.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 30, 2008 2:39 pm 


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could anyone also update this and include in the above guide questions/answers relating to region for PAL U.K./European users?

thanks a lot
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 30, 2008 3:20 pm 


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Guardians Knight wrote:
could anyone also update this and include in the above guide questions/answers relating to region for PAL U.K./European users?

thanks a lot


http://ntsc-uk.domino.org/showthread.ph ... 32&t=73466

It seems to make more sense for us UK folk to grab an Asian X360 as opposed to a Japanese one. I think, anyway...
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Great guide, thanks. Sticky this

Also i checked Yes and PA. I am guessing PA has better prices even if the ship is included in YA. Im assuming the one they are selling is an arcade model for 499.00. It could be a 60 Gig but they have no description of contents.

The only thing that scares me is the RROD. If it goes you are screwed. Read the reviews on PA and you will see what i mean. Not very encouraging.
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The more recent models and the latest one are a lot more reliable than the older models. They run at much cooler temperatures which is what the main problem was with the older ones.


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bcass wrote:
If you live in Europe and you buy a Japanese 360 you will need to buy an expensive stepdown converter.


Not if you've got the PSU from a 360 of your own region..


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Sure, but they aren't easy to get hold of and they aren't cheap. Also, there are several different versions, all with different wattages.


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Can someone please notify a guy before moving his thread. I had no idea where this went.

Also, updated with a few of the above issues.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 30, 2008 5:56 pm 


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Quote:
360's use external power, so you can use a power supply of your own region with a console of a different region. Japanese 360s are shipped with 110v power supplies, and Hong Kong 360s are shipped with 220v power supplies. Asian ones are harder to come by, so if you can find one of your own region, you can still use it with a JP console. This is true for any console with external power: Wii, Gamecube, PS2 Slimline, etc.

This isn't so straight-forward. As I said in my previous post, there are several different power supplies and you can't just use any with any model. There are at least 3 different types I know of: 203watt, 175watt and 150watt. The situation is complicated further still as some have different connectors. For eample, I have a friend who has launch machine which has a 203watt PSU, and I have a launch day Elite that was released years later which is also 203watt and the connectors are different (the connector that plugs into the console).


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 30, 2008 6:42 pm 


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I don't know anything about that, sorry. My launch power supply worked on both my 2006 JP and 2008 JP consoles. Should I just add what you know to the FAQ? Because seriously, I don't have any idea.


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I'd just mention that there are in fact different power supplies and they are not all interoperable between consoles due to wattage differences.

I suspect that the different PSUs each have different connectors to prevent the wrong one being used (as that could potentially damage the console) but this needs to be confirmed,


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The connectors on my original PAL console and first revision NTSC-J one are the same. I don't know about the most recent model.


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This ought to be a sticky.


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Can some explain to me why the flag icon on my japanese profile changed to my (real) contry for my japanese account ? This hasn't happened recently, but quite some time ago. It does not affect the account. I have still full access to the japanese marketplace, I'm just wondering why this has happened and if it will happen again if I re-change it to Japan (if possible).


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 30, 2008 10:46 pm 


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Joined: 22 Feb 2006
Posts: 2845
Location: Egret 29, USA
Fudoh wrote:
Can some explain to me why the flag icon on my japanese profile changed to my (real) contry for my japanese account ? This hasn't happened recently, but quite some time ago. It does not affect the account. I have still full access to the japanese marketplace, I'm just wondering why this has happened and if it will happen again if I re-change it to Japan (if possible).


probably set to your ISP location.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 12:44 am 


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Joined: 26 Jun 2005
Posts: 5313
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Fudoh wrote:
Can some explain to me why the flag icon on my japanese profile changed to my (real) contry for my japanese account ? This hasn't happened recently, but quite some time ago. It does not affect the account. I have still full access to the japanese marketplace, I'm just wondering why this has happened and if it will happen again if I re-change it to Japan (if possible).


What flag icon?


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 5:38 am 



Joined: 04 Dec 2005
Posts: 171
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Bal-Sagoth wrote:
Nice one, chap! Can anybody confirm the region-locking status of any of the other key shmups? Not having to buy a new console for Ketsui would be smashing. :wink:

(Apologies if that's been covered elsewhere.)


Taken from my question in the Shumps Chat area:

adversity1 wrote:
rancid3000 wrote:
I know I have not posted much here but this news of these two games for 360 has sparked my interest in shmups once more. I also have a new 24in monitor that rotates really easily!

Anyway. I have two questions about this release. Will it have tate mode or will we be forced to use the widescreen format with the wallpaper?

I did some research and read through most of the pages of this thread but is there an official answer as to whether or not this will play on a US xbox or will we have to wait until it is actually released? Different websites have different information.

Thanks in advance!


Tate mode is a given.

The game will be NTSC-J so you won't be able to play it. However, I've had it confirmed to me by 5PB people that Dodonpachi DOJ will be localized at some point so it seems like this will be as well.


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